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Asghar Ali Karbalai

Half men half women beginning

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السَّلآمُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ الله وبَرَكآتُه 

Brothers and sisters

Where did half men half women people originate from?

I do not know the actual word for them, sorry.

I heard it was a result of an attempt to insult (nauzubillah) Imam Hassan's(asws) and that man became women and his wife became came and then a 'mukhanis' was born from them which I am unable to believe so far to be honest but I am mentioning this if somebody can shed light on it too.

I think the arabic word is 'Khanees or Mukhanis' and urdu word is 'Khwaja Sira' but do no know the correct word in English.

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Brother Ali Asghar,

I have never heard of such story.

I only know about what is mentioned in the Quran that after an evil person dies they will be made into apes and pigs.

قُلْ هَلْ أُنَبِّئُكُم بِشَرٍّ مِّن ذَلِكَ مَثُوبَةً عِندَ اللّهِ مَن لَّعَنَهُ اللّهُ وَغَضِبَ عَلَيْهِ وَجَعَلَ مِنْهُمُ الْقِرَدَةَ وَالْخَنَازِيرَ وَعَبَدَ الطَّاغُوتَ أُوْلَـئِكَ شَرٌّ مَّكَاناً وَأَضَلُّ عَن سَوَاء السَّبِيلِ

 

 

5:60 Say: "Shall I tell you who, in the sight of God, deserves a yet worse retribution than these? They whom God has rejected and whom He has condemned, and whom He has turned into apes and swine because they worshipped the powers of evil: [77] these are yet worse in station, and farther astray from the right path [than the mockers]." 
 
M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

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I have heard this in a majlis, I don't understand what's the purpose of relating this incident. You know what message it gives to people? That it's okay to make fun of transgender people. And all the transgender people are getting punished for their sins/ their parents' sins. While we have some awareness about other disabilities, people are completely ignorant about transgender people. I feel strongly about this because I have been declared a transgender. My ex husband started this rumor, apparently he had all the masculine qualities, so any woman not attracted to him must be transgender (that's the only explanation). I don't want to be a man, but now I have to defend transgender people. Since it's not okay to laugh and make fun of other disabled people, it's not okay to make fun of/ hate transgender people. People hate transgender people so much that they end up killing them, we should not be promoting this hate. 

We all know Infallibles had a lot of power, it's important to remind people that they never misused their powers. In another majlis, I heard that muslims were against Imam Ali (A.S.) because He had killed at least one member from every family.  It seems like an attempt to glorify serial killers. And since kids used to attack Prophet Muhammad (A.S.), and Hazrat Ali (A.S.) was a kid, it was okay if Hazrat Ali attacked those kids. So Imam Ali attacked those kids and broke bones of every kid.Do we really want to present our Infallibles as murderers, tyrants, dictators and magicians, who gave severe punishments to anyone who dared to raise a voice in front of them? 

Edited by rkazmi33

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17 hours ago, rkazmi33 said:

I have heard this in a majlis, I don't understand what's the purpose of relating this incident. You know what message it gives to people? That it's okay to make fun of transgender people. And all the transgender people are getting punished for their sins/ their parents' sins. While we have some awareness about other disabilities, people are completely ignorant about transgender people. I feel strongly about this because I have been declared a transgender. My ex husband started this rumor, apparently he had all the masculine qualities, so any woman not attracted to him must be transgender (that's the only explanation). I don't want to be a man, but now I have to defend transgender people. Since it's not okay to laugh and make fun of other disabled people, it's not okay to make fun of/ hate transgender people. People hate transgender people so much that they end up killing them, we should not be promoting this hate. 

We all know Infallibles had a lot of power, it's important to remind people that they never misused their powers. In another majlis, I heard that muslims were against Imam Ali (A.S.) because He had killed at least one member from every family.  It seems like an attempt to glorify serial killers. And since kids used to attack Prophet Muhammad (A.S.), and Hazrat Ali (A.S.) was a kid, it was okay if Hazrat Ali attacked those kids. So Imam Ali attacked those kids and broke bones of every kid.Do we really want to present our Infallibles as murderers, tyrants, dictators and magicians, who gave severe punishments to anyone who dared to raise a voice in front of them? 

Yes Kazmi I agree with you in this that the story would let people to make fun of transgender people which is not good and just because of one or two person that attempts to insult Imam Hassan(asws) he would give punishment to an entire race, I mean the transgenders being born later did not attempt to Insult Imam(asws) so why would they suffer? But then a thought comes into my mind and that is the children of adam did not disobey Allah so why because of Adam (one person) why his entire children have to be on earth for suffering but anyways this is a long discussion and I am sure there is a reason why Allah did this and a good one.

To the part, muslims wanted to kill Moula Ali(asws) actually it was not the muslims, it were the munafiqs who wanted to kill Moula Ali(asws) because Moula(asws) in many battles had killed their ancestors so they had a grudge and wanted to revenge him(asws) somehow and that's why Munafiqs accepted Islam to you know to try and cut the roots of Islam and take revenge from Moula Ali(asws) anybody saying Muslims wanted to kill Moula(asws) is 100% not right sentence this will create even further differences in Shia and Sunni. 

To the part where Moula Ali(asws) would stone kids who would stone Prophet Mohammad(saww) is totally possible because in 'Dawat e Dhul Asheera' Moula Ali(asws) had pledged allegiance to RasoolALLAH(saww) that he would stand by his side always and thus this act was just a part of that commitment and purely for the sake of Islam.

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21 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_change

Religiously, I don't know anything about it, neither have studied this subject.

l remember when Christine Jorgenson was in the papers. Sexual "re-assignment" is different from intra-uteral based problems and morphodites. The last two are medical, the former psychiatric.

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23 hours ago, Asghar Ali Karbalai said:

السَّلآمُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ الله وبَرَكآتُه 

Brothers and sisters

Where did half men half women people originate from?

I do not know the actual word for them, sorry.

I heard it was a result of an attempt to insult (nauzubillah) Imam Hassan's(asws) and that man became women and his wife became came and then a 'mukhanis' was born from them which I am unable to believe so far to be honest but I am mentioning this if somebody can shed light on it too.

I think the arabic word is 'Khanees or Mukhanis' and urdu word is 'Khwaja Sira' but do no know the correct word in English.

@Salsabeel @ShiaMan14 @SIAR14 @Ruqaya101 @3wliya_maryam @Darth Vader @Ashvazdanghe @Laayla @shia farm girl @Sirius_Bright @starlight @ali_fatheroforphans

this is the first time im hearing this

honestly i must say that they obviously originated from ill minded people 

so someone who has male and female physical characteristics ?

 

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On 11/15/2018 at 7:09 AM, Asghar Ali Karbalai said:

 

I think the arabic word is 'Khanees or Mukhanis' and urdu word is 'Khwaja Sira' but do no know the correct word in English.

Is the English word hermaphrodite? If this is what you mean, it's a naturally occurring birth defect of unknown frequency of occurrence but probably rare, in which the body appears to have characteristics of both or neither gender, or the external body does not match the genetics. 

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35 minutes ago, notme said:

Is the English word hermaphrodite? If this is what you mean, it's a naturally occurring birth defect of unknown frequency of occurrence but probably rare, in which the body appears to have characteristics of both or neither gender, or the external body does not match the genetics. 

yes this is the one Sir.

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2 hours ago, Asghar Ali Karbalai said:

I don't know seems like our fellow brothers and sisters also do not know their origination. From where did it all start and what was the religious or scientific reason.

As for this, I've never heard any religious or scientific explanation, but I've heard of a ruling of Imam Ali (as) regarding determining gender of such persons, so the condition was obviously known as that time. I always assumed it has existed as long as humans have existed. I don't think these people can have offspring, it's just a randomly occurring mutation. 

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1 hour ago, notme said:

As for this, I've never heard any religious or scientific explanation, but I've heard of a ruling of Imam Ali (as) regarding determining gender of such persons, so the condition was obviously known as that time. I always assumed it has existed as long as humans have existed. I don't think these people can have offspring, it's just a randomly occurring mutation. 

what is the ruling? any idea

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36 minutes ago, Asghar Ali Karbalai said:

what is the ruling? any idea

The ruling regarded a person who had the external parts of both male and female. The Imam (as) said that whichever part the person uses to urinate, that is their gender. 

27 minutes ago, Darth Vader said:

Brother they are called eunuchs I think, those who are born that way. 

No, brother, eunuchs are castrated males. They are born normal and either due to slavery or crimes, they were castrated. As far as I know, this punishment isn't used anymore. 

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1 hour ago, notme said:

The ruling regarded a person who had the external parts of both male and female. The Imam (as) said that whichever part the person uses to urinate, that is their gender. 

No, brother, eunuchs are castrated males. They are born normal and either due to slavery or crimes, they were castrated. As far as I know, this punishment isn't used anymore. 

Oh yes I remember this ruling.

So what about this story we hear of Imam Hassan(as)?

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Learn to google first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunuch

Trangender or mix gender through birth is no different then someone born with a disability. somewhere the genes went wrong. They are not evil, in fact they must suffer immensely not knowing their true gender or like a disabled person not feeling or having the ability to be able bodied to be good slaves or despots. To claim it is due to their parents evil, is nonsense, just ill educated contrived oppression and justification for class war fair and responsibilities.

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9 hours ago, notme said:

or the external body does not match the genetics. 

This also happens for other reasons than those so far discussed. There is one boy that made my ex kinda sick -back then- because he had breasts and rode his bicycle around. An early teen, l explained to her that some males develop these from extensive marijuana use. He was about 13 or 14 then.

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5 hours ago, Asghar Ali Karbalai said:

So what about this story we hear of Imam Hassan(as)?

I have never heard this story. Is it just a story people tell, or is it genuine and referenced from multiple reliable narrators? 

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20 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

some males develop these from extensive marijuana use. He was about 13 or 14 then.

Also certain prescription medications (risperidone comes to mind) and probably other conditions, but I don't think a person like that who develops conditions later would be considered hermaphrodite, just damaged. 

Edited by notme

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@monad   A few years ago l read of a case of twin boys born conjoined at the genitals. So the parents had to decided on the reassignment surgery for one. The end result was that the one subjected to being the girl could never be one. So when they were teenagers and told what had happened, both children exclaimed "that explains it", and then proceeded to tell their parents that the 'girl' had said since grade school to her brother "l think l am really a boy." So the doctors changed hormone treaments and the 'girl' began to live a boys life.

Edited by hasanhh

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3 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

So the parents had to decided on the reassignment surgery for one.

Horrible! Poor kid. I guess he's fortunate that he's born into a time in which gender reassignment exists, so that doctors are hopefully able to fix the damage. 

However, I suspect the story is apocryphal. 

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2 hours ago, monad said:

Learn to google first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunuch

Trangender or mix gender through birth is no different then someone born with a disability. somewhere the genes went wrong. They are not evil, in fact they must suffer immensely not knowing their true gender or like a disabled person not feeling or having the ability to be able bodied to be good slaves or despots. To claim it is due to their parents evil, is nonsense, just ill educated contrived oppression and justification for class war fair and responsibilities.

Who are you talking to?

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