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Aflower

Muta discussion with the Brothers... Sisters are welcome too

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I am intrigued by how many men on SC suggest that Muta is the solution to satisfying a guys "urges." On another thread someone recommended that a 16 year old boy should have a Muta and two people liked his post. How and where do men find women that are willing to undergo a Muta when the women full well know that this is a short term contract that permits a man to sleep with her in exchange for some money?

This thread is not intended to start a moral debate about Muta or to bash the brothers. I'm genuinely trying to understand:

- How common are Mutas in the West?

- How do the guys approach a woman for a Muta?

- What is the woman's reaction when you approach her?

- Is it common for Muslim women to engage in Mutas too or is it mainly Christians, Jews etc? 

- If you approach a non muslim ahle-kitab woman what is her reaction to this arrangement?

- Do people keep their Muta a secret?

- How would the brothers react if someone approached them to seek their permission to have a Muta with their sisters, aunts, divorced mum or other females in their family? 

- Would the brothers permit females in their family to engage in Mutas with men of their choice/liking?

 

Edited by Aflower

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Salam Aleykoom,

- How common are Mutas in the West?
Not common at all, to my knowledge.

- How do the guys approach a woman for a Muta?
To my opinion, the same way you naturally approach a woman: by not stating you're interested in sex firsthand, but by simply being interested in her. Then if you both want to take it further you do Muta.

- What is the woman's reaction when you approach her?
If the approach is organic and natural, nothing new. At the time of Muta, it depends on her beliefs, most are simply surprised and take it in a fun way.

- Is it common for Muslim women to engage in Mutas too or is it mainly Christians, Jews etc?
I cannot speak for women, unfortunately.

- If you approach a non muslim ahle-kitab woman what is her reaction to this arrangement?
Refer to the answer to your second question.

- Do people keep their Muta a secret?
The difference between Nikah Muta and casually going out with your boyfriend/girlfriend is subtle yet crucial: one is allowed, the other is a major sin. In western countries, people simply view your relationship as natural, since they can't tell the difference.

- How would the brothers react if someone approached them to seek their permission to have a Muta with their sisters, aunts, divorced mum or other females in their family?
Personal opinions shouldn't be factored in when people are doing what is lawful and allowed. Then again, there are some cases where muta is makrooh (although my memory fails me, but hadiths on the subject can easily be found on Kitab Al-Kafi, volume 4, in the chapter about marriage)

- Would the brothers permit females in their family to engage in Mutas with men of their choice/liking?
Refer to my answer above. There are makrooh cases, but generally, i tend not to let my personal opinions get in the way of Deen. Whatever Allah Azz wa Jall Allows is a mercy from Him.

Wa Salam.

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use the history tab and find old posts related to this subject with responses to similar questions that have been proposed.

There is nothing to understand as what you require is statistics. That would imply researching a large demographic of men who practice it. This forum does not have that data. What it has is opinions with a generality of introverts.

When the idea of muta is suggested it is implied as an option. If the male in question has troubles with their self abuse, and non-marriage due to conditioned applied by the communities, then muta would be the logical conclusion to avoid mental damage. No one agreed the use of women as objective tools, it is just females who generally jump on the defensive, when it is mentioned. They give the pretense of it being a low class option and accept some males to follow an ascetic type of lifestyle because that is their feeling and opinion. Women want to change males to fit their ideal. Yet in the real world, many females agree upon such a deal?. It means that they accept it while knowing what it entails, because the male who proposes it, has to explain the conditions of it. Whether they want a relationship or do it as a temporary deal. It wont be logical to do it as a short term deal, as the female won't wont be able to sleep with a male again for 3 months or so. Thus we assume, it generally stems towards a relationship.

I find the pretense of naivety quite comical. Do you actually think males approach women and ask lets do muta?. It probably works similar to the cases of male and female interaction, where there is an interest of making a relationship or in rare cases where they just want to engage in non-disclosure intercourse. This is not applicable for the regular male or female, it pertains more to a genetic disposition coupled with the male or female having the beiber complex. The more fame, wealth and looks a person has, the more likely their chance of being initiated with.

 

Edited by monad

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@monad. Firstly, thank you for taking the time to respond. You have made some fair points. There is no "pretence" on my part. Could you please shed some light on the Beiber complex that you have referred to if you get time? Thank you.

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11 hours ago, Aflower said:

I am intrigued by how many men on SC suggest that Muta is the solution to satisfying a guys "urges." On another thread someone recommended that a 16 year old boy should have a Muta and two people liked his post. How and where do men find women that are willing to undergo a Muta when the women full well know that this is a short term contract that permits a man to sleep with her in exchange for some money?

This thread is not intended to start a moral debate about Muta or to bash the brothers. I'm genuinely trying to understand:

- How common are Mutas in the West?

Not very common

- How do the guys approach a woman for a Muta?

It varies depending on the guy and the women

- What is the woman's reaction when you approach her?

It varies depending on the women

- Is it common for Muslim women to engage in Mutas too or is it mainly Christians, Jews etc? 

Mainly with Christians, meaning cultural Christians. The strict ones would not do mutah. Not sure about Jews

- If you approach a non muslim ahle-kitab woman what is her reaction to this arrangement?

It varies but most of the time positive. They think of it like dating but with some rules. If she likes the guy, she will be happy if he approaches her. If she doesn't like him, she will probably 'me too' him. Lol (jk)

- Do people keep their Muta a secret?

Mostly yes, and this is a shame. 

- How would the brothers react if someone approached them to seek their permission to have a Muta with their sisters, aunts, divorced mum or other females in their family? 

You probably already know the answer to that one. 

- Would the brothers permit females in their family to engage in Mutas with men of their choice/liking?

If they meet the criteria for marriage (baligh, rushd, etc) it is their decision.  I wouldn't be happy or comfortable with it, but I don't have the right to interfere, again, if they meet the criteria and the guy meets the criteria (he is muslim, not fasiq, etc). 

Also, I would say that we can't treat 'Women in the West' or 'Jews' or 'Christians' as a block. They are all different, with different goals, personality, knowledge and levels of commitment to their religion. I was hoping you'd see the humor in my answers, but basically 'it varies' is the answer. In Christianity and Judaism, there is no such a thing as 'Mutah' or 'Temporary Marriage'. Historically (excluding the last 150 years or so), there was Polygamy practiced in both Christianity and Judaism and educated Christians and Jews are fully aware that Polygamy was a practice of the Prophets of God that they believe in (Abraham, David, Soloman, etc) and we believe in. The ones who know their religion and stick to it 'to the letter' would never do it. But as you probably already guessed, most Christians and Jews are not like that. They (and most Muslims also do this) take the 'Shopping Cart' approach to religion, they follow what they like and don't follow what they don't like, then try to find some way to justify to themselves why they aren't following the parts they know to be true. 

Also in Christianity, there is no 'Sharia' or religious law that carries with it penalties for violating it. So most laws that are in Islam are also in Christianity and Judaism, but these are 'recommendations', not 'requirements'. So they have a different view of religion and religious law. 

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1 hour ago, monad said:

it pertains more to a genetic disposition coupled with the male or female having the beiber complex. -----> The more fame, wealth and looks a person has, the more likely their chance of being initiated with.

why do males and female chase each other?. First, there is exposure. I have to see something in order to either be moved to or away from. The more I am exposed to something the familiar it gets, in fact what could be detested, with time becomes agreeable. Why do females chase males with fame and fortune?. They are no different then the guy who sits opposite them at their school, work. but somehow one differs in grandeur then the other. Same goes for males.

So when muta is agreed upon, both parties are or were heavily interested in each other, that lead to the exchange of hormones.

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11 hours ago, Aflower said:

contract that permits a man to sleep with her in exchange for some money

Just for the sake of increasing information and clarity:

Mutah does not necessarily entail physical intimacy nor does the mahr necessarily consist of money.

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3 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

 They (and most Muslims also do this) take the 'Shopping Cart' approach to religion, they follow what they like and don't follow what they don't like, then try to find some way to justify to themselves why they aren't following the parts they know to be true. 

Precisely!  If only this quote could be pinned on top of SC banner. Wow, wow, wooooow!  Sub7an'Allah

Mash'Allah brother, you definitely nailed this one on the head!

Thank you!

Is @SamAlFarsi your second screen name brother?

Edited by Laayla

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17 minutes ago, Laayla said:

Precisely!  If only this quote could be pinned on top of SC banner. Wow, wow, wooooow!  Sub7an'Allah

Mash'Allah brother, you definitely nailed this one on the head!

Thank you!

Is @SamAlFarsi your second screen name brother?

I was initially confused about this too but then the penny dropped that they must be the same person. :grin:

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10 hours ago, Aflower said:

- How would the brothers react if someone approached them to seek their permission to have a Muta with their sisters, aunts, divorced mum or other females in their family? 

- Would the brothers permit females in their family to engage in Mutas with men of their choice/liking?

Mut`a is just as halal for women as it is for men, but there are reasons why the cultural double standards exist. For most men, to even consider marriage, you must be financially independent. It's very difficult to marry permanently before 25; and even marrying before 30 requires one to be very proactive, mature, go through rejections, etc.

Muslim women on the other hand are regularly approached for marriage before 30. Regardless of where they are, what they're wearing or who they are with, they are pursued. It does not matter if they're still in school/college, it does not matter if they're working full-time or part-time, it does not matter if they hide all day in their basement; it does not even matter if they're mature or not, they and their families are still approached at that age. And it's not just the "pretty" ones, normal-looking women in that age group can get married if that is their goal.

Libido for women peaks in their late 20s and 30s. For men, libido peaks after puberty and declines later. 15-25 is an awkward age for men, because they're not quite men, nor are they boys; and they cannot marry until they learn to become men. In general, women prefer a man that knows what he's doing (emotionally and physically mature, knows how to please women), and in general, men prefer a woman with less experience. So it makes complete sense to me that men would rely on mut`a until they can support a wife, and that women instead find a quality spouse while they are young.

Obviously there are many millions of exceptions to everything I've said here, I'm speaking very generally. To answer your last questions, it really depends on their age. If a woman in my family is older or divorced, mut`a is her business. But it's usually not worth it for a woman to waste her youth or virginity on mut`a, because those are important in finding a permanent spouse.

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OP, what we have seen here is lack of diverse views in regards to this topic.

In society there is much deceit and self-deception. People are themselves deceived and they deceive others. And in the preceding statements are the answers to some of your questions.

Mutah in most common contexts is a very bad thing. We need to warn people about its dangers.

If it was a wahabi only view, the shia would mock it.

I thought I would post to give more balance to the opinions.

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On 11/11/2018 at 12:15 AM, Aflower said:

How and where do men find women that are willing to undergo a Muta when the women full well know that this is a short term contract that permits a man to sleep with her in exchange for some money?

I find this wording interesting, as it implies a generalization.

I've spent nearly a decade in the middle-east, and you'd be surprised at the amount of virgin women (and their sunni families) who were ok with a permanent marriage & a high dowry, despite knowing fully that the suitor is planning to have intercourse and divorce the woman (usually a prince does this, and he does this often to multiple women, the women are happy for the easy money sadly).

Now, do all people use permanent marriage as such? Nope. We can apply the same logic in the use of Mut'a marriage, no need to generalize.

 

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2 hours ago, dragonxx said:

Now, do all people use permanent marriage as such? Nope. We can apply the same logic in the use of Mut'a marriage, no need to generalize.

The point of a mutah is literally intimacy in exchange of money. If we look at the root of it's existence, that's literally it. Nowadays people use it to "get to know eachother " the halal way. They joke around with everyone, but when it comes to marriage, they need a mutah to communicate with the opposite sex for some reason. 

The people you're referring to are abusing permanent marriage. But mutah is not being abused when two people agree on some sort of no-strings-attached relationship that will last for a very short period of time. 

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1 hour ago, 2Timeless said:

The point of a mutah is literally intimacy in exchange of money. If we look at the root of it's existence, that's literally it. Nowadays people use it to "get to know eachother " the halal way. They joke around with everyone, but when it comes to marriage, they need a mutah to communicate with the opposite sex for some reason. 

The people you're referring to are abusing permanent marriage. But mutah is not being abused when two people agree on some sort of no-strings-attached relationship that will last for a very short period of time. 

Permanent marriage could also be argued to literally be a permission for sex in exchange for a lifelong stipend. Those are the very basic requirements for marriage, if you only look at the law. And if two people want to get permanently married just to have sex, and the man pays the woman living expenses but they live in separate houses, don't love each other and so on, that's also a perfectly valid marriage Islamically. But that's not the ethical point of permanent marriage.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter in my opinion, what people's intentions for either mut'ah or permanent marriage are. Very simply put, despite our societies having become incredibly puritanical, Islam recognises that sex is a human need. Not a want, but a need. Sure, some people may argue men need it more than women, and that can be argued forever, but both sexes do need it.

Just like how hunger is a basic human need and God provides halal foods to sate our needs in that regard, he has provided the two forms of marriage to sate our sexual needs. As long as people use these tools provided by God to avoid sins, and as long as both people understand and consent to what they're getting into, whether they do mut'ah for a one night stand or to get to know each other for permanent marriage or a man uses it for a legal means of marrying a non Muslim, kitabi woman for life (since regular nikah is not allowed in this case), it really doesn't matter. And it shouldn't matter. At best, some of these things may be makrooh,  but the people who make it such a big deal, do they always eat with their right hand and enter the bathroom with their right leg and leave with the left? When it suits them, it's okay to ignore every mustahab  and makrooh act, but when something is causing the youth to become irreligious and commit sins, then it's all about not doing makrooh actions? We'd rather let our youth commit sins instead of letting them do something makrooh. Is that not the epitome of irrationality?

Do we not see the almost constant threads about teenagers complaining they are masturbating and they can't stop? Do we think God won't question us about how we created a society where His halal was made haram by societal pressure, where people were forced into sin and unable to use the halal means of satisfying their urges? We all read the hadith about halal and harm being interchanged at the end of times; is this not a glaring example of the same?

Why do we think people will leave Islam and reject the Imam at the time of his zuhoor? It will be because their personal standards of ethics will be so different from Islam, that his actions will not make sense to them. Because they will judge a woman for doing mut'ah, while the Imam will allow it and, as the Hadith about its reward show, even encourage it for those who need it.

What do they think is going to happen when the Imam tells their sister or their daughter to do mut'ah if the situation requires it and even tells her that she'll have a boatload of reward in Heaven for it, and their deluded idea of ghirah makes them think the Imam is sending their daughter down the wrong path? How many of the people here would accept it, then? If they can't accept it now, then they need to rethink their relationship with Islam and with the Imam because he could come tomorrow, and they might end up rejecting him.

The rest is just cultural baggage. Islam is about not lagging behind the Prophet, but we should also not go beyond what he says. If he allowed something, we shouldn't judge people - especially the women since Muslim men are for some reason so enamoured with virginity while our Prophet married widows and divorcees with no hesitation - for doing something that he allowed.

Edited by Khadim uz Zahra

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Why is everyone bringing up the physical aspects of marriage? Be it temporary or permanent, besides physical intimacy there is emotional intimacy and a sense of companionship which is priceless and equally important to both men and women. 

Edited by starlight
'Or' instead of 'and'

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22 minutes ago, starlight said:

Why is everyone bringing up the physical aspects of marriage? Be it temporary and permanent besides physical intimacy there is emotional intimacy and a sense of companionship which is priceless and equally important to both men and women. 

Absolutely. Even if someone might argue that the physical aspect is more important to men and, so, why should women be forced into mut'ah and treated like objects to fulfil sexual desires, the fact is women in the West where there are fewer restrictions do get into relationships as well, no? They're not forced into them. Obviously, they're getting something out of it, and want one. Maybe they want the physical aspect less and want the emotional intimacy with the man, and again, the degree of puritanical thought in our societies and the various restrictions on marriage until half a person's life is already over are preventing women from having their physical and emotional needs being met as well.

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54 minutes ago, starlight said:

Why is everyone bringing up the physical aspects of marriage? Be it temporary and permanent besides physical intimacy there is emotional intimacy and a sense of companionship which is priceless and equally important to both men and women. 

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum dear sis.

Unfortunately there are people who have made marriage a burden or a physical hardship that this is how they have framed marriage to be is just to fulfill sexual desires.

As people age, and just ask the elderly their biggest battle is loneliness.  They miss their spouses and long to be in a companionship.  Sub7an'Allah.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

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19 hours ago, Laayla said:

Precisely!  If only this quote could be pinned on top of SC banner. Wow, wow, wooooow!  Sub7an'Allah

Mash'Allah brother, you definitely nailed this one on the head!

Thank you!

Is @SamAlFarsi your second screen name brother?

No. But now I'm going to have to read his posts. Thank you for your kind words. Salam. 

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34 minutes ago, Asghar Ali Karbalai said:

@Aflower

You have raised question which were in my heart. Good questions raised.

Looking forward for some knowledgeable replies.

Lol I've had enough of mut'ah threads, will you lemme breath? :D

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As to my knowledge, Mutah was introduced after the battle of badr when many muslims men were martyred and their women were left widows and children orphans.

It was implemented therefore in those times so that Widows and Orphans would have a shelter in form of a man to look after their needs which is why a child from mutah is even entitled for inheritance.

But nowadays people want to do mutah purely because of their 'physical' needs which is not understandable as because they are too young in age mostly and that is why they lack sense of responsibility towards mutah.

It is more like you were trying to avoid one sin (Zina) and ended doing another sin (lacking responsibilty after mutah and falling into a cyclone).

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