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Aflower

Muta discussion with the Brothers... Sisters are welcome too

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To the OP, I don't know the answers to all of your questions, but I do know some girls who have done mutah - they are almost exclusively converts. Other than that I only know divorced females who practice this. 

Virgin girls may be allowed to do it as an engagement period before permanent marriage but without physical touching. Not all virgin girls are allowed to do this though. 

So basically it's converts and divorcees and widows who engage in mutahs. 

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1 hour ago, Carlzone said:

Let's disregard halal/haram here for a moment. What kind of man would want to sleep with a woman who sleeps with 10 other men per day every day? 

And who said all prostitutes sleep with ten men everyday? 

Put yourself in the shoes of a Syrian widow who's been displaced and has no family left and nothing at all to offer her children. What are her options? Just take a moment to reflect on such women's situations and then come back with the same judgement and condescending tone. 

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3 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

And who said all prostitutes sleep with ten men everyday? 

Put yourself in the shoes of a Syrian widow who's been displaced and has no family left and nothing at all to offer her children. What are her options? Just take a moment to reflect on such women's situations and then come back with the same judgement and condescending tone. 

Reread my post.

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1 hour ago, Carlzone said:

Reread my post.

Quite weird, I've seen this response from you multiple times now. 

Please put yourself in such a vulnerable woman's shoes. Not everyone can afford our luxuries. 

Edited by 2Timeless

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30 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

Quite weird, I've seen this response from you multiple times now. 

Please put yourself in such a vulnerable woman's shoes. Not everyone can afford our luxuries. 

Exactly. Coz I need to repeat it.

Read what I wrote. Separate that from your own interpretations.

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3 hours ago, Carlzone said:

Which scholars? 

If it's halal for a man to sleep with a prostitute - why would it be haram for a woman to be a prostitute? Makes no sense.

What is the ratio between scholars who allow it versus scholars who do not allow it? What do our biggest marja3s say? 

 

Let's disregard halal/haram here for a moment. What kind of man would want to sleep with a woman who sleeps with 10 other men per day every day? 

Sayyed Khamenei allows it, and some others do but from the top of my head I can't list them. Sayyed Al-Sistani doesn't allow it, as per obligatory precaution.

Because women are obligated to observe iddah after every marriage where intercourse has taken place. There is no iddah on men, a man can go through multiple mutahs in one day if he likes, and have multiple partners.

I don't support it.

Edited by Sumerian

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6 minutes ago, Carlzone said:

Exactly. Coz I need to repeat it.

Read what I wrote. Separate that from your own interpretations.

There must be a reason you need to repeat it. 

Read what you wrote. Acknowledge and get rid of your condescending and superior attitude to the less fortunate. 

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2 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Sayyed Khamenei allows it, and some others do but from the top of my head I can't list them. Sayyed Al-Sistani doesn't allow it, as per obligatory precaution.

Because women are obligated to observe iddah after every marriage where intercourse has taken place. There is no iddah on men, a man can go through multiple mutahs in one day if he likes, and have multiple partners.

Now I know why I love Sayyid Sistani so much. Alhamdulillah weshokorr.

But shouldn't a believer want for others what he wants for himself? If he's ok with sleeping with a prostitute - shouldn't he be ok with his sister being a prostitute and sleeping with random men?

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2 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

There must be a reason you need to repeat it. 

Read what you wrote. Acknowledge and get rid of your condescending and superior attitude to the less fortunate. 

I thought i was clear.

Once again. Reread what i wrote and separate it from your own interpretations.

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On 11/12/2018 at 8:35 AM, Khadim uz Zahra said:

Permanent marriage could also be argued to literally be a permission for sex in exchange for a lifelong stipend. Those are the very basic requirements for marriage, if you only look at the law. And if two people want to get permanently married just to have sex, and the man pays the woman living expenses but they live in separate houses, don't love each other and so on, that's also a perfectly valid marriage Islamically. But that's not the ethical point of permanent marriage.

These words made me so proud of KuZ. A crippling blow at the hollowness of it.

Now his journey to the dark side is complete. :coffee:

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Permanent marriage could also be argued to literally be a permission for sex in exchange for a lifelong stipend. Those are the very basic requirements for marriage, if you only look at the law. And if two people want to get permanently married just to have sex, and the man pays the woman living expenses but they live in separate houses, don't love each other and so on, that's also a perfectly valid marriage Islamically. But that's not the ethical point of permanent marriage.

The problem with the above quote is it ignores a historical reality on the usage of mut'ah, which is said to have been introduced to support the urges of soldiers and men who were away from their wives during the early Islamic wars.

Furthermore, there is also lingual support to what sister @2Timeless has stated, as explained by one of the more knowledgable brothers;

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235058898-why-do-men-think-they-are-the-boss-during-mutah/?do=findComment&comment=3163509

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20 minutes ago, Carlzone said:

Now I know why I love Sayyid Sistani so much. Alhamdulillah weshokorr.

But shouldn't a believer want for others what he wants for himself? If he's ok with sleeping with a prostitute - shouldn't he be ok with his sister being a prostitute and sleeping with random men?

A believer should want his sister to only engage in that which is halal. I have already shown that iddah is an issue for Muslim women should they wish to have many mutahs. 

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57 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Sayyed Khamenei allows it, and some others do but from the top of my head I can't list them. Sayyed Al-Sistani doesn't allow it, as per obligatory precaution

l guess this is the best place to interject.

When l read a biography of Ayatollah Khomeini it said that while he was in Qom he knew many other students that did mutah but he never approved of it and never did it himself. His wife confirmed this after his demise.

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22 minutes ago, Carlzone said:

If he's ok with sleeping with a prostitute - shouldn't he be ok with his sister being a prostitute and sleeping with random men?

This is a  pointless argument. Do you believe that generally women who sell their bodies for money enjoy doing it? Do you think any dignified Muslim man would allow his sister to be a prostitute? On the flip side given a choice between a practising woman and a prostitute do you think any sane man would choose a prostitute to be his wife?? Do you realise that some of the rulings are merely things that are permissible under certain (extreme) circumstances and not recommended. 

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1 minute ago, starlight said:

Do you realise that some of the rulings are merely things that are permissible under certain (extreme) circumstances and not recommended. 

Yeah that's just how fiqh works, you can't technically make something harram if there's no textual evidence. I seriously wonder why users even bring these fatwas, like just to have a laugh? This is not acceptable from an ethical point of view imo.

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This thread is de-evolving quickly. OP, I think your original question was answered. I think this is a good place to end it. 

I will just add one more thing. 

I have advised brothers not to post certain things on this forum, like the 'mutah with prostitutes' fatwa. Obviously noone is listening. The reason why, is because there are many here (I would even say most) who don't understand why these fatwas exist. 

Again, a marjaa' will not say something is haram UNLESS there is very, crystal clear evidence from Quran and Authentic Hadith that it is absolutely Haram. Everything is halal unless it can be proven 'beyond a shadow of a doubt' that it is haram. Imam Khamenei(ha) does not find anything in the Quran or authentic hadith proving, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it is haram to do mutah with a prostitute. Just to be technically correct here, Sayyid Khameni doesn't have a fatwa regarding this, since this is not in his Resalat. It is an answer to a question he was asked. 

THAT DOESN"T MEAN HE IS SAYING IT IS GOOD, WISE, HEALTHY, etc to do this. He doesn't do it and he doesn't recommend it. That should tell you something. No wise person who cared about their Deen would ever do this, IMHO. For most people, there are more than enough options (halal) besides this. For those who don't have these options, May Allah(s.w.a) reward them for their patience. 

BTW, it is not Haram to eat 10 pounds of nachos in one sitting. Does that mean we should do it ? Absoultely not. 

I hope this is clear. 

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