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In the Name of God بسم الله
dragonxx

"Judging" people who publicly die in sin

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53 minutes ago, M. Saad Ali Hashmi said:

Really?

My God.

I know a ton of Sunni brothers who love Mola Ali AS and Ahlul Bayt.

They also respect the first 3 Caliphs.

Where are they going then?

Please enlighten me. Thanks.

P.S: I wish we could truly follow the teachings of Mola Ali AS who prayed the funerals of the Khawarij. Shias today only want to curse all the time instead of reading Salutations, and condemn people to hell instead of enlightening them. If only you had gone through Sayyid Sistani's take on calling Sunnis etc what you call them judging by this statement.

Anyone who respects the so-called Caliphs who are in fact the enemies of Ahlulbayt (as) are not going to be blessed with Jannah. There is no wilayah without bara'ah, and such a person is a confused person as Al-Baqir (as) has stated, regarding those who love Ali (as) and his enemies. It is like loving the Prophet (as) and Abu Jahl (la) or Abu Lahab (la). It is like loving Prophet Musa (as) and Fir'aun (la). 

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34 minutes ago, alidu78 said:

I know this is not the topic but I would like to ask a little more about this point. If for exemple they know shiism by name only but don't know well his doctrine it is enough for such person to be forbidden to heaven? 

It may depend on whether they searched for the truth or not.

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47 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Anyone who respects the so-called Caliphs who are in fact the enemies of Ahlulbayt (as) are not going to be blessed with Jannah. There is no wilayah without bara'ah, and such a person is a confused person as Al-Baqir (as) has stated, regarding those who love Ali (as) and his enemies. It is like loving the Prophet (as) and Abu Jahl (la) or Abu Lahab (la). It is like loving Prophet Musa (as) and Fir'aun (la). 

Didn't Mola Ali AS reconcile with the first Caliph?

Didn't Mola Ali AS Wed Ama Jan Umme Kulsoom AS to the second Caliph?

Didn't Mola Ali AS defend the 3rd Caliph against the rebels till the very end? Despite differences?

Did Mola Ali AS declare the first 3 Caliphs what you are declaring them somewhere?

The situation after Imam Hassan AS Caliphate ended is very clear.

But please, the first 3 Caliphs? 

Kindly enlighten me thanks.

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29 minutes ago, M. Saad Ali Hashmi said:

Didn't Mola Ali AS reconcile with the first Caliph?

Didn't Mola Ali AS Wed Ama Jan Umme Kulsoom AS to the second Caliph?

Didn't Mola Ali AS defend the 3rd Caliph against the rebels till the very end? Despite differences?

Did Mola Ali AS declare the first 3 Caliphs what you are declaring them somewhere?

The situation after Imam Hassan AS Caliphate ended is very clear.

But please, the first 3 Caliphs? 

Kindly enlighten me thanks.

He never accepted the rule of any of the three. Have you ever read Khutbah Al-Shaqshaqiyya brother? 

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11 hours ago, dragonxx said:

Another retorted "we can't say that, it's not for us to judge, they might not go to hell".

This. 

We can't judge a non-Muslim by Islamic law, and even a Muslim, we don't know their level of knowledge or understanding. 

Certainly we can assume that knowledgeable Muslim hypocrites and psychopaths will go to hell, but even that, we can't be certain. 

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From the time Holy Prophet (sawa) declared his Prophethood and the shariah he brought, all previous shariah were abrogated including Deen-e-hanif of Hazrat Ibrahim (a.s.) and Christianity of Hazrat Isa (a.s.). Therefore anyone following anything other than Islam that prophet Mohammed (sawa) brought is on wrong path and will not be able to make it to Paradise. Additionally, anyone not having wilayah of 12 Aimma (ams) and bara'ah of their enemies will not reach Jannah (excluding Mustadh'afeen). 

However, even for shias it depends if we die with Imaan (the shaitaan tries his best to push a believer away from true faith). 

May Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى keep us on Sirat-e-Mustaqeem till the very end and by his grace forgive our sins. 

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1 hour ago, Sirius_Bright said:

From the time Holy Prophet (sawa) declared his Prophethood and the shariah he brought, all previous shariah were abrogated including Deen-e-hanif of Hazrat Ibrahim (a.s.) and Christianity of Hazrat Isa (a.s.). Therefore anyone following anything other than Islam that prophet Mohammed (sawa) brought is on wrong path and will not be able to make it to Paradise. Additionally, anyone not having wilayah of 12 Aimma (ams) and bara'ah of their enemies will not reach Jannah (excluding Mustadh'afeen). 

However, even for shias it depends if we die with Imaan (the shaitaan tries his best to push a believer away from true faith). 

May Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى keep us on Sirat-e-Mustaqeem till the very end and by his grace forgive our sins. 

So for you there could not be non Shias in heaven without exception? 

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17 hours ago, Sumerian said:

We can judge and say they died as fasiqs but if they were Shi'a we can't be sure they will go to Hell because Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى may forgive them. 

 If they were non-Shi'a then the first one is correct, in fact even if they didn't do those things they'll still go there.

I agree with the first statement.

But for the second statement, isn't it a generalization in such scenarios? As far as I know there is a chance non-shia go to jannah, for example individuals who haven't received the message of Islam but lead a very moral life. So I'm not sure we can say those guys are auto-hell without knowing their character, background, etc. as notme explained.

Maybe some of the people who died in the bar weren't even drinking.

15 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

In the end, it’s not up to us to decide or judge and think that they will go to hell or not. This all depends on Allah’s mercy and whatever He decides to do with His creation. 

Are there any scenarios that you could think of where it would be important to make that judgement (a person going to hell/heaven)? Or should we always be hands off with such judgements?

12 hours ago, hasanhh said:

Many chris!ians in the early 20th Century and before believed dancing was immoral.

Really? I never came across this. I wonder what changed to make them think it's moral?

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9 minutes ago, dragonxx said:

Really? I never came across this. I wonder what changed to make them think it's moral?

It's true, and ladies wore headcoverings and even now many Christian denominations forbid the consumption of alcohol. What changed is society, and the churches decided to change along with to keep their congregants happy. 

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2 minutes ago, notme said:

It's true, and ladies wore headcoverings and even now many Christian denominations forbid the consumption of alcohol. What changed is society, and the churches decided to change along with to keep their congregants happy. 

I'm surprised. I thought it was just in the 21st century that the Church started adjusting significantly for society. Didn't realize how recent all this was (only 19-early 20th century!), shocking because the public idea is that no such values ever existed in Christian society for the past 300 years.

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43 minutes ago, dragonxx said:

I agree with the first statement.

But for the second statement, isn't it a generalization in such scenarios? As far as I know there is a chance non-shia go to jannah, for example individuals who haven't received the message of Islam but lead a very moral life. So I'm not sure we can say those guys are auto-hell without knowing their character, background, etc. as notme explained.

Only the powerless (mustad'afeen) non-Shi'a will be given an exception. 

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1 hour ago, notme said:

and the churches decided to change along with to keep their congregants happy. 

Thanks again uhty.  This is called "inclusiveness" which includes anybody.  That is how gays got 'accepted' in the 90s.  Anything to keep the money coming in.

l read a couple of years ago many small churches are now closed because in the 1990s people wanted to go to the rock-bands and sing-alongs at the megachurches and these are now having trouble filing their bleachers.

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