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In the Name of God بسم الله

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Salam to all of you. Well today I came across  sa serious argument with my sunni friend. She accepts everything about shias but argued about one particular thing that i bymyself became confused of            She asked me why do you say Ali Madad when only Allah can only help, then she gave a refrence of an ayat:                                                                                             image.jpeg.4cf4f047af75bdf94085577d9ce5f7e4.jpeg

Please do give me a solid reason for this 

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4 minutes ago, Farwa Jawad said:

Salam to all of you. Well today I came across  sa serious argument with my sunni friend. She accepts everything about shias but argued about one particular thing that i bymyself became confused of            She asked me why do you say Ali Madad when only Allah can only help, then she gave a refrence of an ayat:                                                                                             image.jpeg.4cf4f047af75bdf94085577d9ce5f7e4.jpeg

Please do give me a solid reason for this 

according to Abbass Naderi

--

Many Muslims call this Tawassul, i.e. asking a person who has the means to provide you on behalf of God. And who has the means to help in religious matters better than high-status, religious martyrs, such as Ali ibn Abi Talib, which are alive, willing, and capable of providing that help?

Now with all that being said, Ya Ali Madad is more of an expression than an actual plea for help. For example, old people say it when they have a hard time standing up, or weight-lifters do it when they want to lift heavy weights, because thinking of Ali and his high spirits and his high spiritual status and his bravery gives them strength, so this instance doesn’t even fall under the discussion of Tawassul.- Abbas Naderi

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1 minute ago, Ruqaya101 said:

according to Abbass Naderi

--

Many Muslims call this Tawassul, i.e. asking a person who has the means to provide you on behalf of God. And who has the means to help in religious matters better than high-status, religious martyrs, such as Ali ibn Abi Talib, which are alive, willing, and capable of providing that help?

Now with all that being said, Ya Ali Madad is more of an expression than an actual plea for help. For example, old people say it when they have a hard time standing up, or weight-lifters do it when they want to lift heavy weights, because thinking of Ali and his high spirits and his high spiritual status and his bravery gives them strength, so this instance doesn’t even fall under the discussion of Tawassul.- Abbas Naderi

It is also true that in kufa in roza of Imam Ali people ask directly from Imam and my father in this regard said that whatever you have to ask, ask Allah but with waseela of Imams, donot ask directly and  he has discussed on this matter with some ulemas...

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6 minutes ago, Farwa Jawad said:

It is also true that in kufa in roza of Imam Ali people ask directly from Imam and my father in this regard said that whatever you have to ask, ask Allah but with waseela of Imams, donot ask directly and  he has discussed on this matter with some ulemas...

I completely agree!. it actually really gets me annoyed when people do that!

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Translation seems to be off. There is no word in Arabic “alone” in in that verse. The correct translation would be “it is you we worship, and it is you we call for help”. With this correct translation, no where in that verse it says help can only be asked from Allãh.

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8 hours ago, Farwa Jawad said:

Salam to all of you. Well today I came across  sa serious argument with my sunni friend. She accepts everything about shias but argued about one particular thing that i bymyself became confused of            She asked me why do you say Ali Madad when only Allah can only help, then she gave a refrence of an ayat:                                                                                             image.jpeg.4cf4f047af75bdf94085577d9ce5f7e4.jpeg

Please do give me a solid reason for this 

The following are my personal beliefs and views, not to be mistaken for anything else.

What does shirk mean? Associating partners with Allah in worship. Dua is an act of worship. So, making dua to anyone other than Allah is shirk. Note that making dua and asking for help is different. We ask help from someone who can hear us, is present in front of us(via any medium be it physically or electronically through mobile phone) and is able to help us. 

 

One user on SC has told me that they call upon Ali for help as tawassul. When i said to them how can you ask help from someone who's passed away and can not hear you. They then quoted the following ayah. 

 وَلَا تَحْسَبَنَّ الَّذِينَ قُتِلُوا فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ أَمْوَاتًا ۚ بَلْ أَحْيَاءٌ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ يُرْزَقُونَ

3:169

I did not point out any flaws in the logic, and i do believe there are flaws there, But if anyone does say ya ali madad with the above-mentioned belief, i dont think it is shirk. It's not right. But it's not shirk either. 

 

Also, i dont think this is the belief of others. Pretty much everyone ive asked or seen answer this question has a different explanation for it. 

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Tawassul is getting closer to the ones who are close to Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and the AhlulBayt(as) are the closest people to Allah 

22 hours ago, Farwa Jawad said:

Salam to all of you. Well today I came across  sa serious argument with my sunni friend. She accepts everything about shias but argued about one particular thing that i bymyself became confused of            She asked me why do you say Ali Madad when only Allah can only help, then she gave a refrence of an ayat:                                                                                             image.jpeg.4cf4f047af75bdf94085577d9ce5f7e4.jpeg

Please do give me a solid reason for this 

It's an expression, we're not calling Ali for help or asking him to accept our duas (astsghfirullah). It's part of tawassul and it has nothing got to do with shirk although it does in the eyes of Sunni Muslims

Think of it like asking someone to make dua for you; why do we choose to seek tawassul from these pious people who are known as Ahlulbayt(as)? Because they are the closest creation to Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى so when we get close to them we are getting closer to Allah. When we seek tawassul from them, they ask Him to accept our duas 

Same goes when saying Ya Ali Madad. Most Shias just say "Ya Ali" especially in my country, such as when carrying something heavy or trying to complete a difficult task, 

 

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23 hours ago, Farwa Jawad said:

why do you say Ali Madad when only Allah can only help

فَالَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ بِهِ وَعَزَّرُوهُ وَنَصَرُوهُ وَاتَّبَعُواْ النُّورَ الَّذِيَ أُنزِلَ مَعَهُ أُوْلَـئِكَ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ

7:157

What is the meaning of "Nasaruhu" in above verse? If only Allah can help then why we have been commanded to help the messenger? 
Saying "Ya Ali Madad" is a way of remembering the helper of Prophet (S) and helper of Allah (s.w.t). Remembering the one who has been mentioned as follows in Quran:

وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يَشْرِي نَفْسَهُ ابْتِغَاء مَرْضَاتِ اللّهِ وَاللّهُ رَؤُوفٌ بِالْعِبَادِ

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Lets now see what Allah (s.w.t) is commanding the Prophet:

وَقُل رَّبِّ أَدْخِلْنِي مُدْخَلَ صِدْقٍ وَأَخْرِجْنِي مُخْرَجَ صِدْقٍ وَاجْعَل لِّي مِن لَّدُنكَ سُلْطَانًا نَّصِيرًا
17:80

We know this "Sultanan Naseera" as Ali Ibn Abi Talib (asws). 

 

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إِنْ تَتُوبَا إِلَى اللَّهِ فَقَدْ صَغَتْ قُلُوبُكُمَا ۖ وَإِنْ تَظَاهَرَا عَلَيْهِ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ مَوْلَاهُ وَجِبْرِيلُ وَصَالِحُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ۖ وَالْمَلَائِكَةُ بَعْدَ ذَٰلِكَ ظَهِيرٌ {4}

[Shakir 66:4] If you both turn to Allah, then indeed your hearts are already inclined (to this); and if you back up each other against him, then surely Allah it is Who is his Guardian, and Jibreel and -the believers that do good, and the angels after that are the aiders.


[Pickthal 66:4] If ye twain turn unto Allah repentant, (ye have cause to do so) for your hearts desired (the ban); and if ye aid one another against him (Muhammad) then lo! Allah, even He, is his Protecting Friend, and Gabriel and the righteous among the believers; and furthermore the angels are his helpers.


[Yusufali 66:4] If ye two turn in repentance to Him, your hearts are indeed so inclined; But if ye back up each other against him, truly Allah is his Protector, and Gabriel, and (every) righteous one among those who believe,- and furthermore, the angels - will back (him) up.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 66:1]

Quote

Salihul muminin, "the (most) righteous among the believers" refers to Imam Ali according to Tafsir Durr al Manthur by Jalal al Din al Suyuti, Tafsir al Husayni, Kamaluddin Husayn Kashifi and Hayat ul Awliya.

http://quran.al-islam.org/

*****

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235058287-say-ya-ali-as-یا-علی/

 

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On 11/7/2018 at 12:49 PM, Farwa Jawad said:

Salam to all of you. Well today I came across  sa serious argument with my sunni friend. She accepts everything about shias but argued about one particular thing that i bymyself became confused of            She asked me why do you say Ali Madad when only Allah can only help, then she gave a refrence of an ayat:                                                                                             image.jpeg.4cf4f047af75bdf94085577d9ce5f7e4.jpeg

Please do give me a solid reason for this 

Wasalaam

Tell your friend that not all those who claim they are Shia believe this. To us it is shirk to pray to any other than Allah. 

We are a minority, but that doesn't mean we are wrong. Technically to be Shia or Shia of Ali, means that one is a Muslim who pledges allegiance to Ali rather than Abu Bakr, Omar etc., as the rightly caliph on earth. From the countless narrations of Ali that I read, there isn't one that shows him or his cousin Mohamed actually praying and asking for spiritual help from others than Allah.

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You come to realization that help comes only from Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى. So calling should always direct to Him سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and it would be shirk to direct to others, because directing to other than Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى means that person believes that help comes also from other than Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى, which is false.

 

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Quote

[Ibn Ziyad] said: ‘Did Allah not kill ‘Ali bin al-Husayn?!’ [At this, Imam al-Sajjad] remained silent.

So Ibn Ziyad said to him: ‘Why are you not speaking?’

[Al-Sajjad] said: ‘I had a brother who was also called ‘Ali. The people killed him.’

Ibn Ziyad said: ‘Allah has indeed killed him.’ [Again] he remained quiet. So Ibn Ziyad said: ‘Why are you not speaking?’

He said: ‘Allah takes the souls at the time of their death.’15 ‘No soul may die except with Allah’s leave.’16

https://www.al-islam.org/event-taff-earliest-historical-account-tragedy-karbala-abu-mikhnaf/household-al-husayn-kufah#captives-court-ibn-ziyad

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Some people literally seek Allah's hands for pledging allegiance to Him. 

Some expects that Allah Himself come to help them or send angels directly on them for help.

Some people tends to negate "wasilah" which is the sunnah of Allah (s.w.t).

The problem is in their definition of shirk. Perhaps they don't accept when Allah (s.w.t) is making someone His "shareek" by granting authority (wilayah for instance) or by calling us to join Him (durood for instance).

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On 11/7/2018 at 6:54 PM, Ruqaya101 said:

Allah can only help,

[Shakir 3:49] And (make him) a messenger to the children of Israel: That I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I determine for you out of dust like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird with Allah's permission and I heal the blind and the leprous, and bring the dead to life with Allah's permission and I inform you of what you should eat and what you should store in your houses; most surely there is a sign in this for you, if you are believers.

Is it not only Allah who created all animals? Are we now calling Prophet Isa (as) a mushrik?

[Shakir 3:49] ....I determine for you out of dust like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird

So how did Prophet Isa (as) bring a piece of dirt to life?

[Shakir 3:49] ....with Allah's permission.

Did those who went to Prophet Isa (as) say to him: Ya Allah, heal our sick people?

Or did Prophet Isa (as) say: Go away. Ask Allah to heal you!

[Shakir 3:49] ...and I heal the blind and the leprous, and bring the dead to life

Did he (as) say Allah does that for them? What did he (as) say?

[Shakir 3:49] ...with Allah's permission.

Then what did Prophet Isa (as) say?

[Shakir 3:49] ...and I inform you of what you should eat and what you should store in your houses;

Is it not only Allah knows the ghaib?

[Shakir 3:49] ...most surely there is a sign in this for you, if you are believers.

ps: cnp from someplace :grin:

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On 11/8/2018 at 3:18 PM, Salsabeel said:

Lets now see what Allah (s.w.t) is commanding the Prophet:

وَقُل رَّبِّ أَدْخِلْنِي مُدْخَلَ صِدْقٍ وَأَخْرِجْنِي مُخْرَجَ صِدْقٍ وَاجْعَل لِّي مِن لَّدُنكَ سُلْطَانًا نَّصِيرًا
17:80

We know this "Sultanan Naseera" as Ali Ibn Abi Talib (asws). 

 

GEM GEM GEM OF A MAN!!!

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On 11/10/2018 at 9:18 AM, Salsabeel said:

Some people literally seek Allah's hands for pledging allegiance to Him. 

Some expects that Allah Himself come to help them or send angels directly on them for help.

Some people tends to negate "wasilah" which is the sunnah of Allah (s.w.t).

The problem is in their definition of shirk. Perhaps they don't accept when Allah (s.w.t) is making someone His "shareek" by granting authority (wilayah for instance) or by calling us to join Him (durood for instance).

My love

Tell me more virtues of my Moula(asws)

You were much required on shiachat and alhamdulilah you are here...

ALI ALI ALI ALI ALI HAIDER HAQ

ALI 

Prophet(saww) said lahmuka lehmu dammuka dammi

ALI IBN E ABU TALIB(asws)

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8 hours ago, Asghar Ali Karbalai said:

Tell me more virtues of my Moula(asws)

I don't have words, my words will exhaust but the virtues of Amirul Mo'mineen will remain. And set a side the ignorant like me, even the great scholars says that they cannot comprehend and mention all the virtues of Amir-ul-Mo'mineen (asws). Even the Prophet (S) has not mentioned all virtues of Bab-e-Madinatul ilm (asws) because of the fear of misguidance of people. 

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12 hours ago, Asghar Ali Karbalai said:

My love

Tell me more virtues of my Moula(asws)

You were much required on shiachat and alhamdulilah you are here...

ALI ALI ALI ALI ALI HAIDER HAQ

ALI 

Prophet(saww) said lahmuka lehmu dammuka dammi

ALI IBN E ABU TALIB(asws)

You can also listen khanum tayyaba bukhari, she is a well known scholar and the way she describes Mola Ali (a.s) virtues..... I LOVE IT !!!!!!

You feel sudden burst of intense emotions and you cant assemble your happiness....My Moula , without any doubt no one can understand you and there are so many  virtues that even if a person starts at day it wont end by night by day by weeks.............

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12 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

I don't have words, my words will exhaust but the virtues of Amirul Mo'mineen will remain. And set a side the ignorant like me, even the great scholars says that they cannot comprehend and mention all the virtues of Amir-ul-Mo'mineen (asws). Even the Prophet (S) has not mentioned all virtues of Bab-e-Madinatul ilm (asws) because of the fear of misguidance of people. 

What you said is itself a virtue and describing his shaan.

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