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King

Breaking news: Pakistan acquits Christian woman on death row

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8 hours ago, King said:

The killer - Mumtaz Qadri - was executed, but has become a cult hero with a large shrine dedicated to him on the outskirts of Islamabad. 

That is just sick... I literally shuddered and wonder if these people have any insanity. Its despicable

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I can accept that stuff like this exists in backwoods rural areas of some parts of the world but having a lot of problem digesting that it is a federal law that is supported by millions - including the man in the highest office....  

The Supreme Court overturned the conviction against Asia Bibi, accused in 2009 of insulting the Prophet Muhammad in a case that sparked violent protests in the overwhelmingly Muslim nation of 200 million people. Two Pakistani government officials were murdered in 2011 in crimes linked to their support of Bibi.

“The appeal is allowed. She has been acquitted,” said Chief Justice Saqib Nisar. "Her conviction is set aside."

But the future of blasphemy laws in Pakistan is far from settled. The laws remain popular in Pakistan, and Prime Minister Imran Khan expressed support for them during the recent election campaign.       <????  thought this guy was supposed to be progressive  ????>

Bibi's case stemmed from a simple act among poor farmhands in rural Pakistan. Bibi was asked to get water while harvesting fruit in a field. Muslim women working with Bibi complained when she dipped her cup into the water bucket, saying a non-Muslim was unclean.

The women quarreled, and her co-workers accused her of insulting the prophet three times. She was later beaten, and the women complained to a local religious leader who pressed for the blasphemy charge. Blasphemy carries a death sentence under Pakistani law.
 
 
This woman was beaten and held in solitary confinement for eight years.  Her family has left the country and I guess she will be leaving as well - if she gets out alive.
 
Are all religious minorities in Pakistan treated so badly?
Edited by Maryaam

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2 hours ago, Ruqaya101 said:

The killer - Mumtaz Qadri - was executed, but has become a cult hero with a large shrine dedicated to him on the outskirts of Islamabad. 

That is just sick... I literally shuddered and wonder if these people have any insanity. Its despicable

Yeah there is a video where some dude is saying they honor him at his shrine and use him as a wasila to seek forgiveness for their sins.

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16 minutes ago, King said:

Yeah there is a video where some dude is saying they honor him at his shrine and use him as a wasila to seek forgiveness for their sins.

wow... now I dont even know what to say. 

la hawla wa la quwata illa billah al aliyul atheem

 

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2 hours ago, alidu78 said:

What kind of blasphemy she did exactly ?

She apparently disgraced the prophet saws. 

But god knows what the truth is, for the last 8 years she has been imprisoned and has called out that she is innocent. But its known that in that region of Pakistan, they are very racist towards non muslims in general. According to the news article, she was even beat up to say that she had committed blasphemy of this sort.

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10 minutes ago, Maryaam said:

The reaction so far has been tamer than expected.  Let us see how it goes, the state should provide some extra security for Christian communities without making a major show of it.

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3 hours ago, Maryaam said:

Are all religious minorities in Pakistan treated so badly?

Yes, including Shias. 

The majority isn’t educated enough and has been fed the wrong narrative. The army used (80s or so) religion to keep their dominance. The religious right took that and radicalized a large part of the country’s consciousness. Now anything that goes against their point of view is easily swept away as unislamic. Minorities are easy targets because of their small numbers. 

Edited by eloquence

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46 minutes ago, King said:

Yeah there is a video where some dude is saying they honor him at his shrine and use him as a wasila to seek forgiveness for their sins.

*shudder*

This is apparently the 'moderate' and 'tolerant' Barelwi political upsurge that we are told will rescue us from the nasibi takfiri menace.

 

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4 hours ago, Maryaam said:

But the future of blasphemy laws in Pakistan is far from settled. The laws remain popular in Pakistan, and Prime Minister Imran Khan expressed support for them during the recent election campaign.       <????  thought this guy was supposed to be progressive  ????>

Pakistani political landscape should not be viewed from the point of view of simple binaries like progressive/backward and liberal/conservative because these labels are inadequate in understanding the situation. Things are much more complex with each and every mainstream political party than what meets the eye. Most politicians from any party would never put down the blasphemy law as a whole because it remains popular among the the right-leaning religious masses, and antagonizing them can break your vote bank. Politicians who are concerned about how the law is misused have argued for reforms but nothing concrete has been done. Only the secular civil society is openly against it but who listens to them.

As for Imran Khan, he is a mixed bag. He can be progressive about some things and conformist about others. He is a "born again Muslim," so to speak, and he is well-known for his rightwing leanings and his sympathetic view of Taliban's militancy next door in Afghanistan. Yet he also represents the outward-looking youth who are sick of the old politics and want to liberalise the society and economy, and his right-leaning politics also acts as a buffer against the more hardline elements of the kind out protesting in the streets and due to whom I had to miss my dinner outing with my friends this evening.

4 hours ago, Maryaam said:

Are all religious minorities in Pakistan treated so badly?

It is worth noting that most people charged and punished with blasphemy law have been Muslims, or members of the heterodox Muslim sect Ahmadis. But when I scan the news in international media every news headline is crying out the fact that Asia Bibi is Christian, as though the law specifically targets Christians or non-Muslims. This is patent falsehood. Although it can be argued that the initial conflict that broke out between Asia Bibi and her coworkers was due to their religious bias. That's a separate debate. Often the law is misused to settle personal disputes.

As to the general situation of minorities, yes it's pretty bad. There are laws that curtail their rights especially about proselytizing and taking higher office in the land (non-Muslims are barred from running for prime minister and president). Although their right to religious freedom is enshrined in the constitution and afforded to them by law, they have limited social visibility and acceptance. Minorities are not integrated well into the society although one would expect different in a country whose institution explicitly forbids discrimination on the basis of religion in all matters other than those I previously outlined. 

 

Edited by Marbles

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The silver lining however...at least the highest court of the land has acquitted her and cleared her name, thus proving that the accusation was false and like many other cases based on personal dispute.

Another fact: despite death penalty as the highest punishment for blasphemy, the state has not executed a single person for the crime. The sentence is often commuted to life or reduced in years (I'm just stating facts, not defending these set of laws). Some have been killed in mob violence but the law and courts are not responsible for it - the general atmosphere of intolerance and extremism that has infested Pakistan society since Zia is.

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4 hours ago, Maryaam said:

But the future of blasphemy laws in Pakistan is far from settled. 

Indopak region has a history of blasphemy issues getting out of control resulting in murders and lynching.

The blasphemy law was passed with the intent that it will stop the people from taking matters in their own hands. 

Edited by starlight
Missed a word

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27 minutes ago, starlight said:

Indopak region has a history of blasphemy issues getting out of control resulting in murders and lynching.

The blasphemy law was passed with the intent that it will stop the people from taking matters in their own hands. 

And it was enacted by the British Raj originally in 1860 to discourage people from disrespecting religious symbols of others.

Zia Islamised it and made it worse and prone to misuse.

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Great summary Marbles...btw have you gone into politics yet. 

1 hour ago, starlight said:

Indopak region has a history of blasphemy issues getting out of control resulting in murders and lynching.

The blasphemy law was passed with the intent that it will stop the people from taking matters in their own hands. 

Good point but do we have any incidences or records of the people summarily executing prior to the Zia era.

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15 minutes ago, haideriam said:

Good point but do we have any incidences or records of the people summarily executing prior to the Zia era.

No idea, but it was zia who changed the law from imprisonment to death sentence and there over 60 people have been killed by mobs or murdered since then.

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54 minutes ago, starlight said:

No idea, but it was zia who changed the law from imprisonment to death sentence and there over 60 people have been killed by mobs or murdered since then.

I think blasphemy law should be revised with the condition that anyone who wrongly alleges to a person as blasphemer should be turned to gallows if proved that he or she alleged an innocent because he or she is real blasphemer.

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4 hours ago, Juma Khan said:

I think blasphemy law should be revised with the condition that anyone who wrongly alleges to a person as blasphemer should be turned to gallows if proved that he or she alleged an innocent because he or she is real blasphemer.

Pata nahein. These things are tricky. Violence is never the answer.

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This kind of news is sad to hear but I'm glad she's safe now. 

I (obviously) don't support blasphemy of the prophet (PBUH) but I find it morally sickening to see someone jailed or put on death row for such a thing. Secular law is important in this regard, for giving us our rights to religious freedoms - within limits. She's a Christian too, so it's technically not even blasphemy to her (different religion) but it is to us, yet she is a 'person of the book'. 

There are types of crimes against religions and individuals that do deserve prosecution but that's another topic. 

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:bismillah:

لَتُبْلَوُنَّ فِي أَمْوَالِكُمْ وَأَنْفُسِكُمْ وَلَتَسْمَعُنَّ مِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ مِنْ قَبْلِكُمْ وَمِنَ الَّذِينَ أَشْرَكُوا أَذًى كَثِيرًا ۚ وَإِنْ تَصْبِرُوا وَتَتَّقُوا فَإِنَّ ذَٰلِكَ مِنْ عَزْمِ الْأُمُورِ

3:186

(You shall certainly be tried respecting your wealth and your souls, and you shall certainly hear from those who have been given the Book before you and from those who are polytheists much annoying talk; and if you are patient and guard (against evil), surely this is one of the affairs (which should be) determined upon.)

Agha Poya Ali: The believers will, nonetheless, be tried in their possessions and in their persons. The people of the book, the Jews and the Christians, and the polytheists will say many hurtful sayings in the way of ridicule of the prophet and other things provocative to the believers. So they ought to accustom themselves to patience and piety because it is Allah's resolve about human affairs.

So Muslims are protesting that their supreme court has released a so called criminal, they not only reject the supreme courts decision but also threaten to kill the Judges, asking military to launch coup against their military chief. They have blocked roads, shut down the businesses and industries all over Pakistan. They're doing everything except what is recommended in the above quoted verse. 

They attach R.A with the name of the biggest LAEEN & Hypocrite of the history who not only fought wars with Imam Ali (asws) but gave birth the practice of cursing him from mosques. They respect the LAEEN who ruined every clause of the peace treaty with Imam Hassan (asws). They respect the LAEEN who according to sahih hadith, is a identified "Baghi" as he killed Ammar bin Yasir. 

Why they prefer to keep quite on the blasphemy of their revered personalities? 

And why not they just look at their "Sahih" books, how much blasphemy is present in them?

Edited by Salsabeel

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14 hours ago, haideriam said:

Good point but do we have any incidences or records of the people summarily executing prior to the Zia era.

There have been such cases but they were rare and usually stopped at beatings etc - as the atmosphere was not as highly charged and toxic as it was to be under Zia's patronage. Perhaps the state was also more active and less complacent and people knew the consequences could be dire for them if they took the law into their hands. Now these mazhab ke thekedars are too powerful to be dismissed summarily so they are placated one way or the other.

But we have a historical precedent as to why Pakistanis have come to believe that lynching and killing blasphemers is the only or best way to deal with them despite there being laws against blasphemy. If you have been educated in Pakistan you'd remember the mad and ridiculous story of one Ghazi Ilm-ud-din "shaheed," that fanatic who killed the Hindu publisher of "Rangeela Rasul" (Playboy Prophet) in 1929. He was hung for murder by the British administration but he became a hero to Muslim community and even Allama Iqbal lionised him and sang his praises. Now when such things are taught at school, it is no wonder that people grow up with the idea that killing the alleged blasphemers is the most virtuous and rewarding act. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilm-ud-din

I think there was an attempt to take out that Ilm-ud-din episode out of the syllabus but I don't know if it ever succeeded. 

In any case, things were not rosy before Zia came, as is often believed. There have been many cases of retribution against alleged blasphemers prior to Zia but they have been targeted at the Ahmadis as a whole not against individuals. For example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Lahore_riots

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_Anti-Ahmadiyya_riots

 

Edited by Marbles

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9 hours ago, starlight said:

Pata nahein. These things are tricky. Violence is never the answer.

Sister, Allah (AWJ) says mentioning punishment for adultery that "In such laws there is security for you". If humans would have been so easy to be persuaded, Allah (AWJ) would not have suggested exemplary punishments. 

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My question is: how do you disabuse the excitable masses of the notion that lynching and killing and firing fatwas on alleged or real blasphemers is the proper way to deal with the issue? Even having a law that criminalises whatever is perceived to be blasphemous does not establish the glory and peace credentials of Islam but the opposite: it's a sure shot way to prove that Islam is far from a religion of tolerance and peace but encourages violence and intolerance.

It isn't just Pakistan, variants of blasphemy law that punish insults to Islam and its Prophets exist in a number of countries: Malaysia, Iran, Saudia, Sudan etc even if its application is not common and the laws aren't misused as they are in Pakistan. But they still exist and hang like a sword over the heads of anyone stupid enough to rile Muslims on matters of religion.

It is easy for secular-minded believers who prefer religion to be kept outside politics and government to see its demerits and those of you who live in the West who are able to see the repercussions of such laws, but how do you convince the 'pious' that we don't need such laws and fatwas in this day and age, that it's better to defend your religion with words and good deeds and not by pulling swords out of the scabbard in the name of pleasing the Prophet?

This is the difficulty politicians and intellectuals face when they argue for reform and/or scra.pping of the law. The moment you suggest it you're at risk of being branded an apostate and an enemy of the Prophet. No one in their right minds would take that risk, and those who did paid with their lives Like Punjab governor Salman Taseer.

I mean, how the hell do you even begin to stop this collective madness from taking place? 

 

Edited by Marbles
typos

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Everyone except this cult knows that they are a pathetic bunch because of their glorifying of a murderer and now their protest of the accused woman being acquitted. This woman was tried and her life became a punishment for 12 years already. But the cult wants her to die so her story positively adds to their fairy tales about their glorified murderer and her going free would be an anti-climax because it would prove that the murdered governor spoke the truth and was right to support her.

That said I really, really hope they start using armed force against these vermin and crush them. Although then then matter will be highly politicized and like the Lol Mosque things whenever terrorist mullahs are crushed they are made heroes and used in politics and the government of the time demonized. Yet these people also deserve no less.

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8 minutes ago, Darth Vader said:

at said I really, really hope they start using armed force against these vermin and crush them. 

An hour or so back there clash between police and protesters and heavy tear gas shelling on Abdullah gul interchange.

Friday is going to be worse. 

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If I was the PM I would send people to the opposition and to other mullah leaders and advise them to join the protest by starting to meet their protest chief mullah on the road. Then, I would send my best police chief with hand picked fake encounter squad equipped with the army's LMGs and shoot them all in one place with as many of their sidekicks, on the road, killed like dogs, and then keep their bodies there on the road untouched because scotland yard is coming to investigate or something. Pakistan's problems would get solved in one night that way.

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Khadim Razvi (or Rizvi),lol!!

Why do people admire a sicko who publicly uses filthy and uncouth language even in his sermons? How is that an index of taqwa/akhlaq?

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3 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Are you suggesting to throw them in "kala pani"?

That would be being kind to them.  I had something akin to tying weights to the feet and slowly lowering in shark infested waters for disturbing the peace and treason

 

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:salam:

To add a bit of self criticism, I think the Salman Rushdie fatwa by Imam Khomeini (ra) set the bar a bit too high. It made jurisprudence and became a reference for zealous masses in blasphemy cases, when they know they have a power of decision over the governments, something quite exceptional in our societies.

This fact, besides ignorance and primitive hate, may account for the popular fervor we observe. 

Now the Rushdie case was definitely something else, it was a tribune against Islam, publicized and politicized in the West, not verbal stuff in a neighborhood dispute. I am not totally convinced blasphemy should lead to such a punishment, yet I understand the political crusade that our late Imam fought.

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