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ali_fatheroforphans

Mut'ah taboo needs to end

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28 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Almost all Muslims I know are getting influenced by this 'dating culture' and it's not easy especially when the pressure from the West is growing. Muta'ah can be a potential solution. 

Just for the sake of discussion, wouldn't early permanent marriage be a better solution? What benefits do you think mutah has over permanent marriage?  

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8 minutes ago, starlight said:

Just for the sake of discussion, wouldn't early permanent marriage be a better solution? What benefits do you think mutah has over permanent marriage?  

Again, I'm not here to market a certain type of marriage.

I'm simpy stating that we have no right to question someone's choice in life. 

I do think that it varies from person to person. Some want to enter into a muta'ah contract before making it permanent.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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5 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Again, I'm not here to market a certain type of marriage.

The title of your thread and OP talk about a certain type of marriage but well...okay. 

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I’m just wondering if mutah does become more popular and totally okay in our communities couldn’t it bring new problems into it? Like higher risks of std’s, people sleeping around a lot and causing problems in families or friends, unwanted pregnancies etc? (Kind of like how sex is prevalent in non Muslim communities and creates a lot of problems but less extreme)

 

I’m not very familiar with the specifics/rules of mutah so I may be off about that

Edited by eloquence

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1 hour ago, starlight said:

Just for the sake of discussion, wouldn't early permanent marriage be a better solution? What benefits do you think mutah has over permanent marriage?  

This WAS and IS the only solution for youths who are dragged into Haram because Society just isn't ready for Halal.

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32 minutes ago, eloquence said:

I’m just wondering if mutah does become more popular and totally okay in our communities couldn’t it bring new problems into it? Like higher risks of std’s, people sleeping around a lot and causing problems in families or friends, unwanted pregnancies etc? (Kind of like how sex is prevalent in non Muslim communities and creates a lot of problems but less extreme)

 

I’m not very familiar with the specifics/rules of mutah so I may be off about that

Permanent marriage is way way way too better and Ahlulbayt have advised to do marriage as soon as one reaches maturity and financial stability.

Also its from Ahlulbayt that if one is unable to do Permanent marriage at an early age then they should observe "Temporary Abstinence". 

And when the period becomes so long and still the person is unable to do Permanent marriage and temporal abstinence is not possible now then only go towards Mut'ah.

So Mutah is not encouraged very much in Islam. But is allowed for some scenarios as I told. 

It is a Mercy to those people who can't marry and have exhausted themselves of temporal abstinence.

Yes, Normalizing Mutah like any other sunnah will have adverse effects on societal level. It will cause more harm than doing good. 

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4 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

This WAS and IS the only solution for youths who are dragged into Haram because Society just isn't ready for Halal.

and why can't youth get permanently married?

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1 minute ago, Waseem162 said:

do marriage as soon as one reaches maturity and financial stability.

That would've been perfect for that specific time. Not anymore though. 

1 minute ago, starlight said:

and why can't youth get permanently married?

I think some would argue that permanent marriage would bring about huge responsibility for young people, that they wouldn't be able to handle. 

But even western people find full physical intimacy at such a young age a taboo. I don't think any 15 year old is in desperate need of marriage whatsoever. 

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Just now, 2Timeless said:

That would've been perfect for that specific time. Not anymore though. 

I think some would argue that permanent marriage would bring about huge responsibility for young people, that they wouldn't be able to handle. 

But even western people find full physical intimacy at such a young age a taboo. I don't think any 15 year old is in desperate need of marriage whatsoever. 

That would've been perfect for that specific time. Not anymore though. - No dear Sister. Islam has came for the Last Age only. Its the PERFECT deen and all its constituent are well applicable and will lead a human being to perfection and closer to God.

Its us who have made ourselves deprived of the fruits of Islam which comes in the form of Shariah. 

I have one of my friends who married at the age of 18 (and he is a boy) and just after one year he has a daughter too. 

They are now moving to Qom to study Islam. 

If parents have enough money to support the boy/girl and if they find the match, better to do it early.

And almost people get a job at 23. Marry and do a bit of struggle. Allah has promised to handle everything.

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Just now, Waseem162 said:

That would've been perfect for that specific time. Not anymore though. - No dear Sister. Islam has came for the Last Age only. Its the PERFECT deen and all its constituent are well applicable and will lead a human being to perfection and closer to God.

Its us who have made ourselves deprived of the fruits of Islam which comes in the form of Shariah. 

I have one of my friends who married at the age of 18 (and he is a boy) and just after one year he has a daughter too. 

They are now moving to Qom to study Islam. 

If parents have enough money to support the boy/girl and if they find the match, better to do it early.

And almost people get a job at 23. Marry and do a bit of struggle. Allah has promised to handle everything.

When you said "maturity" I assumed you meant buloogh which is usually around the ages of 9-15 for both boys and girls. If you meant adults (18+) then I agree, if two people think marriage is fine for them, then perfect! Inshallah they have a blessed marriage. If you were referring to children (under 18) getting married, then I think that's even a form of neglect of one's children. Marrying your kids at the age of 9 was essential in the time of the imams, but the lives we lead now dictate that this is extremely problematic for modern children. 

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1 hour ago, eloquence said:

I’m just wondering if mutah does become more popular and totally okay in our communities couldn’t it bring new problems into it? Like higher risks of std’s, people sleeping around a lot and causing problems in families or friends, unwanted pregnancies etc? (Kind of like how sex is prevalent in non Muslim communities and creates a lot of problems but less extreme)

Pregnancies & STD's would skyrocket. Yes, the child is halal but trust me society will view that child as a [Edited Out] since its not a Perm. Marriage that resulted in the conception.

There's a reason why Mutah only applies to certain criteria. Its not simply something that a bunch of teenagers or young adults can use as a loophole to satisfy their libido with. It carries responsibilites, as well as checks and balances. Otherwise, what's the difference between a Mutah and Zina? Just because its halal, doesn't mean that every unwanted pregnancy will be taken care of by the Father. If we encourage Mutah more than what its meant for then we will be no better than the western cultural beliefs in which sex has been made common and trivial.

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17 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

If a guy comes to approach me about doing a Mutah with my daughter he will not leave in one piece. I just don't care if it's halal. 

That's not a very good approach and it contradicts what you said earlier about you not having a problem with it. These days unfortunately, haram is more socially acceptable than halal but then who made things that way? we did, the people who make up the society. 

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3 minutes ago, starlight said:

That's not a very good approach and it contradicts what you said earlier about you not having a problem with it. These days unfortunately, haram is more socially acceptable than halal but then who made things that way? we did, the people who make up the society. 

I stated that my opinion was that I agree with the taboo. The societal taboo which frowns upon Mutah. Especially, amongst unwed young people. Also, speaking from a Father's perspective I have the right to refuse the Mutah as long as my daughter is still a virgin. 

Yes, the lines between Halal and Haram are getting skewed day by day but lets not assume that everyone is engaging in haram. Living in the U.S. many people still choose to remain celibate until marriage. 

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7 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

Also, speaking from a Father's perspective I have the right to refuse the Mutah as long as my daughter is still a virgin. 

Of course you do, I was just pointing to the 'not leaving in one piece' part lolz. That was a bit too strong.

I am of the opinion that permanent marriages should be encouraged and finishing university and making a down payment for a house and have enough funds to host a lavish reception and pay a big mahr are NOT prerequisites for a marriage to take place. 

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7 hours ago, starlight said:

Of course you do, I was just pointing to the 'not leaving in one piece' part lolz. That was a bit too strong.

I am of the opinion that permanent marriages should be encouraged and finishing university and making a down payment for a house and have enough funds to host a lavish reception and pay a big mahr are NOT prerequisites for a marriage to take place. 

Well, the husband should have the ability to stand financially on his own two feet. Otherwise, he isn't ready to be a husband yet.

7 hours ago, starlight said:

I was just pointing to the 'not leaving in one piece' part lolz. That was a bit too strong

Well, I might have exaggerated my point a bit...:furious::threatenlumber::brucelee::dwarf::D

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3 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

Just because its halal does not make it mandatory.

Yeah, which is why I said that we have no right to question someone's choice in life. I never said that everyone should enter into a mut'ah contact. 

3 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

There are countless people that grew up in the U.S. with all of its media exposure that chose to live a celibate life until marriage.

Again this is a Christian mentality, and you seem to be obsessed about virginity of Muslims rather than their relationship with Allah. I believe that sexual desires of human beings are very strong, and what do you say about about our youth who are addicted to porn and masurbation? You act like everything is alright. 

Therefore don't judge others who feel mut'ah is a solution to their problems.

3 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

No members of decent society will allow their daughters to be used in such a manner

Mut'ah is not only a benefit to the man, It's a mutual thing. Why are you assuming that a woman who enters into mut'ah is being used? That's absurd reasoning.

3 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

Again, just because its non-haram doesn't mean its wajib. 

When did I say it's wajib? Com'on!

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The time that I was in Mutah relationship with a girl, was my best time. What is more enjoyable than being in relationship?

Find partner for yourself in highschool, university, and every time of your life. Don't spend your life being single.

To the OP: Mutah taboo is already broken. A lot of people practice this Islamic approach. Find a Mutah partner for yourself and enjoy the life with him/her.

Edited by AmirAlmuminin Lover

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10 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Why do we create this narrow-minded culture where it's just frowned upon? It's not upon us to judge anyone. 

Only the new generation can change this by not passing on the bias to their children, even if they have the bias within themselves.

It's really fascinating the level of taboo mut'ah has reached - some muslim women are willing to date and be completely physical, but would be offended at the mention of "mut'ah". The belief that it's "prostitution" and only for very short-term sexual intercourse is too rampant.

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I believe that depending on the person and depending on the circumstance, allowing your child to do mutah would be a cheap alternative. You’d be selling your child short, and teach them to settle for crumbs in a relationship, and that is definitely not okay.

Your child deserves permanent marriage, and the stability, love, security, and the permanence that comes from a halal relationship. Not be with some person who possibly has only one his/her foot in the door. 

Besides, how is this an alternate to “why buy the cow when you can milk it for free” mentality? There are no rights available in a mutah like you would have in a permanent marriage. Most people view mutah as a relationship and they deal with similar breakups as any Western relationship, and not a marriage. 

EDIT: if a person can’t control their desires, doesn’t have any kind of direction or goals for university and to start a family and have the financial status to take care of a wife/spouse, then that person is not ready for marriage, period. 

Mutah should not be used as an easy access for sex and sexual gratification.

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

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28 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

I believe that depending on the person and depending on the circumstance, allowing your child to do mutah would be a cheap alternative. You’d be selling your child short, and teach them to settle for crumbs in a relationship, and that is definitely not okay.

Your child deserves permanent marriage, and the stability, love, security, and the permanence that comes from a halal relationship. Not be with some person who possibly has only one his/her foot in the door. 

Besides, how is this an alternate to “why buy the cow when you can milk it for free” mentality? There are no rights available in a mutah like you would have in a permanent marriage. Most people view mutah as a relationship and they deal with similar breakups as any Western relationship, and not a marriage. 

EDIT: if a person can’t control their desires, doesn’t have any kind of direction or goals for university and to start a family and have the financial status to take care of a wife/spouse, then that person is not ready for marriage, period. 

Mutah should not be used as an easy access for sex and sexual gratification.

That sounds nice, in theory. Like I mentioned before, I am in no hurry for my sons to get married (the oldest is 15) and I would rather they stay unmarried till they are well established in their careers. That is my hope, but unlike most parents, I don't think of it as a wajibat for them. 

If you take mutah out, then you are left with one alternative, permanent marriage in late 20s and celibacy from the time of baligh until then. The haram practiced amoung the non muslims is not an option for us. 

So this might work for some, but probably few, and every parent hopes that their children are amoung the few. Does that sound realistic to you ? Since this is the current approach, how is it working out for the youth in our community ? Good ? 

Are you (or anyone else on here) willing to go 'on the record' and say that this approach is working for the youth of the community ? 

As my former boss used to say, 'The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result' 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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1 hour ago, Sumerian said:

@Waseem162 brother don't theorise. The jurists have ruled based on sahih hadith that mutah is mustahab for men.

If you are unable to do Mut'ah or Nikah - 

If a Muslim cannot marry soon after puberty, then he or she just has two options: temporary abstinence or temporary marriage. (A) Temporary Abstinence Islam has allowed marriage as soon as a person becomes physically mature, and it also strongly recommends that at least during the early years of marriage to adopt a simple life-style so that the lack or paucity of financial resources does not obstruct a happy life. But if a person decides, for whatever reason, not to marry soon after he or she becomes physically mature, then the only way is to adopt temporary abstinence. After strongly recommending the marriage of single people, the Qur'an says, "And those who cannot marry should practice restrain (or abstinence) till Allah enriches them out of His bounty." (24:33)

Reference https://www.al-islam.org/marriage-and-morals-islam-sayyid-muhammad-rizvi/chapter-three-islamic-sexual-morality-2-its

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34 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

f you take mutah out, then you are left with one alternative, permanent marriage in late 20s and celibacy from the time of baligh until then. The haram practiced amoung the non muslims is not an option for us. 

Why not early marriage, as in 21-25? As long as the two people are in university and have some sort of financial standing, I don’t see how it’d be a problem. I don’t think permanent marriage can only happen in late 20s and above. This seems to be the trend now only because every Tom and Harry with minimum wage jobs try to go after someone out of their league. And women would reject duds with no ambition as a result. Since, let’s be honest, anyone who chooses to work at a minimum wage job with no degree (unless one is an unusual circumstance) by the age of 30-35 in Western civilization (where there are so many options for people to get degrees like CCs, financial aid, and online schools) is likely a bum.

Anyway, being celibate until your early twenties would be fairly easy. It’s by no means a walk in the park, but it can be done. Why not exercise a little patience until 19, 20, 21, Etc, and marry someone permanently who is suitable? Early permanent marriage is a far better alternative to a string of broken mutah relationships until late twenties. 

And we seem to be forgetting a crucial aspect: the more you engage in mutah, the more likely you are to be dissatisfied with your permanent spouse in the bedroom since you’ll more likely compare the person to others you’ve had. Wouldn’t that open the door to a lot of evils? Such as adultery? Studies have shown that the more sexual partners you’ve had, the more likely you are to cheat on your spouse. 

EDIT: I am American, born and raised, but I never “dated” anyone. I kept boys away from me, until I was 21 when I met my now-husband. There are people out there who don’t date around before marriage. Was it easy? No. But I waited, and if people only wait, stay patient, know what they want in a spouse, they’ll be able to find someone suitable, inshallah. 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

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21 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

If you are unable to do Mut'ah or Nikah - 

If a Muslim cannot marry soon after puberty, then he or she just has two options: temporary abstinence or temporary marriage. (A) Temporary Abstinence Islam has allowed marriage as soon as a person becomes physically mature, and it also strongly recommends that at least during the early years of marriage to adopt a simple life-style so that the lack or paucity of financial resources does not obstruct a happy life. But if a person decides, for whatever reason, not to marry soon after he or she becomes physically mature, then the only way is to adopt temporary abstinence. After strongly recommending the marriage of single people, the Qur'an says, "And those who cannot marry should practice restrain (or abstinence) till Allah enriches them out of His bounty." (24:33)

 

Reference https://www.al-islam.org/marriage-and-morals-islam-sayyid-muhammad-rizvi/chapter-three-islamic-sexual-morality-2-its

 

That has nothing to do with the crisp of the argument which is whether it is mustahab or not. 

What you brought forth is it can br back up plan, which is true, that doesn't negate the asl which is istihbaab. 

Here is an authentic hadith;

Taken from Al-Mufeed's Risaalah Al-Mut`ah

عن أبي القاسم جعفر بن محمد بن قولويه عن أبيهعن سعد بن عبد الله عن أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى عن ابن أبي عمير عن هشام بن سالم عن أبي عبد الله ع قال يستحب للرجل أن يتزوج المتعة و ما أحب للرجل منكم أن يخرج من الدنيا حتى يتزوج المتعة و لو مرة

Abee `Abd Allaah (as) said: "It is mustahab for the man that he marries (in) mut`a. And I do not love that a man from you leave the world until he marries (in) mut`a, even if is once.

Source: Al-Mufeed, Risaalah Al-Mut`ah, pg. 7, hadeeth # 1

Translater: @Nader Zaveri

As you can see, this hadith is authentic and taken from Shaykh Al-Mufid's risalah. If you know Arabic, I can link you to more proofs.

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14 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

That has nothing to do with the crisp of the argument which is whether it is mustahab or not. 

What you brought forth is it can br back up plan, which is true, that doesn't negate the asl which is istihbaab. 

Here is an authentic hadith;

Taken from Al-Mufeed's Risaalah Al-Mut`ah

عن أبي القاسم جعفر بن محمد بن قولويه عن أبيهعن سعد بن عبد الله عن أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى عن ابن أبي عمير عن هشام بن سالم عن أبي عبد الله ع قال يستحب للرجل أن يتزوج المتعة و ما أحب للرجل منكم أن يخرج من الدنيا حتى يتزوج المتعة و لو مرة

Abee `Abd Allaah (as) said: "It is mustahab for the man that he marries (in) mut`a. And I do not love that a man from you leave the world until he marries (in) mut`a, even if is once.

Source: Al-Mufeed, Risaalah Al-Mut`ah, pg. 7, hadeeth # 1

Translater: @Nader Zaveri

As you can see, this hadith is authentic and taken from Shaykh Al-Mufid's risalah. If you know Arabic, I can link you to more proofs.

Did Prophet (saws) and other Imams or their wives did Mut'ah if its Mustahab? Do you have any reliable historical accounts mentioning that?

I have seen people quoting this one hadeeth but its much debatable because we find no accounts of Ahlulbayt practicing this as "Mustahab".

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I see a lot of hypocrisy between brothers and sisters in the communities. People are afraid to talk about mutah. Mutah is halal, don't hide yourself. Here, in the west, i know muslims that choose to hide from family and community and practising zina because mutah is taboo... this is not good. Mutah is a freedom that comes from Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى, you can't judge.

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4 hours ago, Waseem162 said:

Did Prophet (saws) and other Imams or their wives did Mut'ah if its Mustahab? Do you have any reliable historical accounts mentioning that?

I have seen people quoting this one hadeeth but its much debatable because we find no accounts of Ahlulbayt practicing this as "Mustahab".

1) the testimony of the Ahlulbayt (as) with regard to the istihbaab of a thing is enough, you don't need proof of them literally doing it 

2) whether they did mut'ah or not is debatable, but like I said the ruling is clear. The above proof was enough for Shaykh al-Mufid (rah).

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mishaal_bint_Fahd_bin_Mohammed_Al_Saud

Saudi princess Mishaal bint Fahd bin Mohammed Khafdah the daughter of the king was executed in the case of honor in Saudi Arabia and the execution of her lover Khalid MahlhalThe reason for the execution of Prince Mashael Al Saud and Princess Mashael during execution 10 Stories of shame about the family of Al Saud Death of a Princess Death of a PrincessMashael bin Fahad bin Mohammed bin Abdul Aziz Al Saud, a Saudi princess. She is the granddaughter of Prince Mohammed bin Abdul Aziz al-Saud, who was executed by members of the ruling family after some members of the family accused her of adultery and was "illegally" executed in 1977. She was at age 19.

الاميرة مشاعل بنت فهد وعشيقها خالد المهلهل و صور حصرية لها

اسرار اعدام الاميرة مشاعل ال سعود 1977 وانقلاب ضباط الجو الجزيري الذي افشلته السي اي اي ال

إعدام الأميرة السعودية مشاعل بنت فهد بن محمد بن عبد العزيز آل سعود

 

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Ali bin Yaghtin asked Imam Ridha(A) about temporary marriage. Imam(A) answered: ”Why do you want to commit it while you allready are in a permanent marriage? Allah has spared you from that need [because He has helped you to afford a permanent marriage].” (Mostadrak, vol. 2, p. 588)

Fath Ibn Yaz id recalled asking Imam Ali(A) regarding temporary marriage. Imam (A) answered:” It is indeed allowed for a person who is not in a permanent marriage so that he can keep himself chaste and in dignity (of piety) [as long as God has not given him the possibility to afford permanent marriage].” (Al-Kafi, vol. 5, p. 337)

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BEIRUT — Jad sits on a couch in the lobby of a hotel in Maameltein, Lebanon. The air is thick with stale cigarette smoke, and the mirror-lined walls are smeared and cracked. A gold crucifix gleams on his chest. There’s a large notebook on the chair beside him. Every so often, an attractive, young, Slavic-looking woman walks over, and he opens the notebook so she can sign her name.

"I have to make sure they sign out before leaving the hotel," says Jad, whose name has been changed. "Otherwise, Immigrations will make me pay a penalty."

https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/02/09/sex-for-sale-in-beirut/

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