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In the Name of God بسم الله

Where is Jamal Khashoggi???

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12 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

Some of you know the back way into the FT, via google I think.

Thank you. Every link from ft.com was not showing up for me. Now I know where to look. 

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What I find absolutely hypocritical of the world is that Saudi kills thousands with the Yemen campaign and not a word from any government . Kill one journalist and all of a sudden their humanity wakes

LOOOOOOOOL

This assassination really is the gift that keeps giving.

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5 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

There's going to be a gathering of top business leaders in Saudi shortly and some of them are pulling out.

Some media partners are also pulling out, but others are 'thinking about it'. These are the same outlets that usually have a pop at Iran about 'human rights'. Anyway good fun to see their readers asking them about their hypocrisy:

https://www.ft.com/content/507f2c24-cd0a-11e8-b276-b9069bde0956

Some of you know the back way into the FT, via google I think.

Other media partners include: Bloomberg, CNN, Fox, CNBC.

Might be worth keeping an eye on their coverage of the Khashoggi story and how they defend their decision to attend.

CNN is reporting Richard Branson announced this morning he's pulling out of Bin Sultan's (BS for short) conference in late October

The business world has also signaled its disquiet, with British tycoon Richard Branson saying he's pulling back from two tourism projects in Saudi Arabia and has suspended discussions with Riyadh about a $1 billion investment in Virgin's space companies. Business leaders have also started pulling out of a key conference hosted by MBS in late October.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/12/middleeast/khashoggi-saudi-turkey-recordings-intl/index.html

BTW, Branson used a very important word 'suspended'. He didn't say canceled. 

At the same time, I still think this is a 'tempest in a teapot'. It will blow over soon and US/Europe/International Banking Cartel will resume cooperation with BS in full. This is despite the fact that Turkey is claiming they have audio recording of the interrogation and murder itself. That is because BS is still carrying out their interests in the ME. This will probably be just a strategic pause in cooperation. 

But it is somewhat satifying that at this particular moment the Western Hypocrisy regarding International Human rights is being exposed. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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On 10/11/2018 at 4:47 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Terrorism in Mosques: Undercover in British Wahabi/Salafi mosques

the KSA supported schools & schools in Britain & USA easily preach hatred but nobody cares because KSA pays ransome of it by Petrodollars 

Undercover Camera Exposes Hate Taught In Muslim Schools

The British government openly allows this to happen because of the petro-dollar. Spot on!!!

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I think this crime was meant to send a message. Here is the message. 

From BS and the BS Govt, 

If you say anything we don't like, we will get rid of you. We can get rid of you wherever you are in the world and if you think the 'International Community' or 'Human Rights Organizations' or the US or the EU will help you, they won't. They may speak some words, but those are empty words and  their hands will remain in their pockets and our hands will remain in their pockets. 

May Allah(s.w.a) help the brothers and sisters in Hijaz and Yemen. 

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On 10/10/2018 at 6:21 PM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Saudis at the end will pay ransomed by their petrodas & Americons will forget it ,it's just a show of by senators to show that they care about American citizens

Just because Jamal was a journalist for WP, does not make him an American citizen. He was never a citizen, he probably had a working visa or a green card.

Quote

 a well-known Saudi Arabian journalist and Washington Post columnist who has been critical of his country’s government, vanished last week.

His disappearance is straining Turkey-Saudi relations and could complicate Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman’s recent attempts to recast his government as forward-thinking and reform-minded — as well as his country’s close relationship with the US.

The 59-year-old veteran journalist was last seen on October 2 walking into the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul. He was there to obtain a document verifying his divorce so that he could marry his Turkish fiancée.

^ If he were an American citizen, why does this article refer to Saudi as "his country"? Also all Saudis have to contact the nearest Saudi embassy to divorce overseas. Would have been totally unnecessary for an American citizen to go a Saudi embassy to divorce.  Don't spread misinformation.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar
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On 10/9/2018 at 12:15 PM, Sumerian said:

This guy paraded when Shaykh Al-Nimr was killed.

And in that relies the beauty and importance of the popular phrase that summarizes Voltaire's idea on freedom of speech:

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

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7 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Just because Jamal was a journalist for WP, does not make him an American citizen. He was never a citizen, he probably had a working visa or a green card.

^ If he were an American citizen, why does this article refer to Saudi as "his country"? Also all Saudis have to contact the nearest Saudi embassy to divorce overseas. Would have been totally unnecessary for an American citizen to go a Saudi embassy to divorce.  Don't spread misinformation.

all of his attributes was like an American citizen ,but he kept ties with KSA for future too this is what people with green card does in Iran too ,they keep connection with both side alive to take benefit from both side.

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12 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

I think this crime was meant to send a message.

Apart from the direct message to dissenters about the price that they could pay, I think there are complicated games being played here between leaders and countries, the details of which we will likely never know. 

As I said in my previous post I think Trump humiliated MbS when he said the Saudis could not last 2 weeks without American support and this action/retaliation will humiliate America, because they'll have to carry on as normal and be seen as hypocrites.

Then there's the Turkish dimension and the local jockeying for power.

And finally, there's this. Is it possible that the vultures are beginning to circle around the Saudi monarchy and investors lose confidence and rich Saudis start taking money out.

79476b06-ce1a-11e8-b276-b9069bde0956?sou

 

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1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

all of his attributes was like an American citizen ,but he kept ties with KSA for future too this is what people with green card does in Iran too ,they keep connection with both side alive to take benefit from both side.

Nonsense, he was strictly Saudi. When you have a green card/residence permit, you are not protected from deportation, get constantly vetted/checked by immigration, every time you leave the US and entry back into the country isn't always guaranteed. Also voting, holding offices, government jobs are not allowed for green card holders. American citizens don't have to deal with these issues, the citizenship protects them from it. I don't understand why you are saying he was "like " or equivalent to an American citizen when he wasn't.

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10 hours ago, Silas said:

It is amazing that the Saudi regime could be so reckless and careless with this --openly assassinating a dissident in a consulate building? Are you kidding me?

This is going to be bad ...

I dont think they expected his fiancee to be waiting outside

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2 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

Apart from the direct message to dissenters about the price that they could pay, I think there are complicated games being played here between leaders and countries, the details of which we will likely never know. 

As I said in my previous post I think Trump humiliated MbS when he said the Saudis could not last 2 weeks without American support and this action/retaliation will humiliate America, because they'll have to carry on as normal and be seen as hypocrites.

Then there's the Turkish dimension and the local jockeying for power.

And finally, there's this. Is it possible that the vultures are beginning to circle around the Saudi monarchy and investors lose confidence and rich Saudis start taking money out.

79476b06-ce1a-11e8-b276-b9069bde0956?sou

 

This type of economy will never happen so long as Al Saud is in power. You need, at least, an 'illusion' of democracy and free markets. You need to convince people that their money / property / investments will be safe and that it will grow over time. Business people know that in a 'tin pot' dictatorship where one family controls everything that is very, very unlikely to happen. By doing this killing, Al Saud has only made something more obvious which most people already knew. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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On 10/13/2018 at 4:40 AM, Abu Hadi said:

Al Saud has only made something more obvious which most people already knew. 

Well, it has come as a surprise to some, note the text I have made bold:

Quote

“As his regime starts to resemble an Arab nationalist dictatorship – socially liberal but centralised, paranoid and built on fear – his promise of a new, tolerant Saudi Arabia is receding.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/12/saudi-arabia-fii-conference-withdrawal-jamal-khashoggi

Pretty weak excuse.

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9 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

and to find out what else the Turks and US know.

both of them know the truth but all of them need a show off to calm down people.

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Usual anti-Iran suspects willing to 'let this one go':

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However the US national security adviser, John Bolton, appeared to cast doubt on Turkey’s version of events surrounding Khashoggi’s disappearance, 

and

Quote

While business groups had withdrawn from the Riyadh conference, the US treasury secretary, Steve Mnuchin, said he still planned to attend

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/12/saudi-isolation-grows-over-khashoggi-disappearance

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Apparently this story has more 'legs' than I originally thought. It is now an international incident. 

Here is a little background on this for those who are unaware. 

In the 1920's, the British made a deal with Abdul Aziz ibn Saud(the gradfather of BS), that he would 'take care' of any opposition to the British stealing the natural resources of Hijaz, most notably the oil, and in return him and his family would become extremely wealthy. This is the classic colonial deal that they British made with many families in countries in Africa and Asia. This deal was taken over by the Americans as the British Empire began to disintegrate, after WWII. The Americans changed the deal and added more things to it, like Saud must purchase their arms from US Companies, and they changed things so that all oil is traded in US dollars (the petro dollar). But the basic component of the deal, that Al Saud 'take care' of the opposition to the colonizers (now the Americans and the British in more of a 'back seat' role) and in return their family would get extremely wealthy still stands to this day. 

In the past, Abdul Aziz ibn Saud and his sons (Naif, Salman, etc) were somewhat cautious in how they carried out this 'deal' and would use third party contractors(a.k.a Qaida, Nusra, and various other Takfiri groups) and would use Mossad to carry out any 'work' that needed to take place on foreign soil involving high level targets, such as people who are well known and well connected in foreign countries (like Khasghorri). They realized that they were not 'cleaver' enough to carry these things out themselves without getting caught and causing and international incident which may harm them.

Apparently, BS and his gang (who are now in charge) are not sticking with this program, and are so confident and arrogant, that they are not even attempting to hide their activities. So this may actually harm them, well have to see. 

What they don't realize is that while Trump is supporting them now, if supporting them becomes too much of a liability to him personally, he will not hesitate to throw them under the bus. He has done this many, many times in the past. He is not loyal to anyone except himself and his immediate family. I don't think they fully realize this. They may start to now. 

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22 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

What they don't realize is that while Trump is supporting them now, if supporting them becomes too much of a liability to him personally, he will not hesitate to throw them under the bus.

Well it's not just Trump. It's the Israeli settler supporting Kushner, who is widely claimed to have a close relationship with MbS.

Where it becomes interesting is this:

Quote

Malcolm Rifkind, a former Tory foreign secretary, called for Britain to impose sanctions. “If the current crown prince remains in power for the indefinite future, then in the first instance the United Kingdom must work with the United States, France and other countries to see if there can be a combined response, a punishment of some kind, of sanctions of some kind,” he told the BBC’s Newsnight.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/13/uk-saudi-relations-khashoggi-tom-tugendhat

So my reckoning is worst case scenario for MbS, is he gets demoted for a while and a bit like Ariel Sharon gets back into power at the very top once all the fuss has died down in several months' time.

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Nothing will happen.

There is a $110bn arms deal at stake.

Otherwise, among the thousands killed in Yemen I am sure there were a few journalists among them.

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3 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

o my reckoning is worst case scenario for MbS, is he gets demoted for a while and a bit like Ariel Sharon gets back into power at the very top once all the fuss has died down in several months' time. 

They may give a light punishment to him in order to control him & limit him somehow but definitely they don't want an new ally for Iran , they knew if they overthrown BS next king will be weaker person than him that must face iran sympathizer groups too only  person that can be his replacement is only Bin naif that had plans to cooperate with Iran through investments in Iran to reduce influence of foreign countries in KSA that is what they don't want to happen.

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Quote

Turkey wants to undertake a search for blood samples inside the consulate, but says it is facing resistance.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/14/jamal-khashoggi-turkey-looks-to-uk-to-persuade-saudi-arabia-to-cooperate

 

Yes, I understand from cop shows that it can be difficult to completely remove blood and especially since the 15-man Saudi team did not seem to include any Indians or Filipinos, it's very likely they did a poor job of cleaning up.

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18 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Nothing will happen.

There is a $110bn arms deal at stake.

Otherwise, among the thousands killed in Yemen I am sure there were a few journalists among them.

Nothing will happen with regards to the arms deals for sure.

Thats why they did not say anything when saudi killed thousands in Yemen with the weapons they sold them.

But the reason they are pressuring mbs now is to put him in place.

I hope mbs arrogance will get the better of him, just like it did when trump said saudi wont survive for 2 weeks without their help.

I have said it before and I will say it again, the US government does not make allies they make slaves.

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1 hour ago, IbnSina said:

God knows what these people are doing behind the scene, the release of the US pastor who was imprisoned in Turkey definitely is connected to recent events. 

Yes, it was looking a little silly for the Turks to take the moral high ground when they had a high profile detainee.

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1 minute ago, Haji 2003 said:

Yes, it was looking a little silly for the Turks to take the moral high ground when they had a high profile detainee.

Hmm, I do not think they care too much for their reputation.

From what I have understood, the turks say they got the recording of how they killed khasghorri from the apple watch he was wearing but from what I can see they had the consulate microphone tapped which brings a bigger head ache for the turks internationally. Nobody is going to like that news for sure. Erdogan sent trump the recording and trump used it against him as well, forcing him to release the pastor so he would not bring attention to the truth regarding the source of recording or to make it public to question it. No other reason for erdogan to let the pastor go, he got nothing for it in terms of sanction relief, made him look weak in fact.

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24 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

but from what I can see they had the consulate microphone tapped which brings a bigger head ache for the turks internationally.

I think it's pretty much taken for granted that everyone taps everyone else's embassy and whatever else they can tap. And that includes friends tapping friends. The Americans were tapping Merkel, for example.

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I thought it may be worth getting the Washington Post's perspective:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/the-dashing-prince-with-a-dark-and-bullying-side/2018/10/13/61f64ea0-ce41-11e8-a360-85875bac0b1f_story.html?utm_term=.9d4c2bc369ea

Quote

 

The maintenance of silence may be one of the crown prince’s greatest successes. Assiri said his networks of activists on the ground in Saudi Arabia has withered, with more and more people who reported on rights violations and arrests leaving the secure chats rooms where they once shared information. 

“A large number are in prison. Some are afraid. Some completely disappeared, and we know nothing about them,” he said in an interview in his London office a few days before Khashoggi’s disappearance.

 

British media have been fairly quiet about these disappearances etc. Obviously Western politicians are aware of them and perhaps are using this murder as an excuse to make up for their forgotten conscience?

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"Saudi Arabia King calls Turkish President . . . "

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/14/middleeast/khashoggi-turkey-saudi-intl/index.html 

They "agreed" to set up a "working group" over Khashoggi.

KSA threatens retaliation if Trump imposes sanctions. <<----- OPINE: Another reason to vote Republican for House and Senate.

KSA says oil production may suffer. Saudi gov't paper editorial threatens $200 oil.

 

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89aee96a75e42a072f1338a33b443c3d_614.jpg

 

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names & pictures of Suspects in disappearance of Jamal Khashoggi that released by Turkey newspaper

197b95d3df647ae00c398bf3e5bea35d_283.jpg

Edited by Ashvazdanghe
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There is only one silver lining to this. That is that, if you study history, you see very clearly that the more reckless and brutal a regime becomes, the faster they collapse. BS is only picking up the pace of his own destruction. 

The only thing Al Saud has is their oil revenue, and that is becoming less and less relevant as the years go by. The Tesla Model 3 is becoming the most popular car in the US. It's electric and uses no oil or gas at all. All the major US (and European) Auto Manufacturers have all electric models, and their sales are increasing faster than any other segment of the auto market. If BS actually reflected, he should reflect on that. 

Trump knows this, and he supports BS only because he is thinking about 2020 and what he will get from them before then. That is as far as his thinking goes and he knows he's old and doesn't have that much time left. That is it. Oil may be relevant in 2020, but the downward curve for it's relevance will become steep after that. BS has a few years, maybe. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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