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In the Name of God بسم الله
Sumerian

Showing body parts after proposal

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4 minutes ago, Laayla said:

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum

Thank you brother. If only we can reflect at the du32 for Imam Mahdi, and not just recite it but also ponder the meaning behind it.  We are living in a time where we are missing the basics of our deen.  God keep us steadfast.

The dua for Imam al Mahdi mentions the following

O Allah!
· Award dignity and peace of mind to old people,
· Confer repentance and turning away from sin to our young people,
· Bestow modesty and chastity to our women.

 

وَعَلَىٰ مَشَايِخِنَا بِٱلْوَقَارِ وَٱلسَّكِينَةِ

وَعَلَىٰ ٱلشَّبَابِ بِٱلإِنَابَةِ وَٱلتَّوْبَةِ

وَعَلَىٰ ٱلنِّسَاءِ بِٱلْحَيَاءِ وَٱلْعِفَّةِ

 

 

 

walaiki assalam

Yes this indeed is something to think about.

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On 10/3/2018 at 11:47 PM, Ibn al-Hussain said:

:salam:

Classical scholars (unlike what Sayyid Sīstānī says) would say that this ruling is talking about someone who is merely interested in getting married, and is trying to find someone, even if he has not yet decided to marry any specific woman. In that situation, one of the things that is permissible for him to do is to look at the face, hands, hair and so on. 

...

The biggest debate is not on whether it is allowed to look or not, but the debate is over what is one allowed to look at? A great number of classical Shī’ī jurists limited this ruling to just the face and hands of a woman, and explicitly prohibited other parts such as the hair or other parts of her body. Furthermore, some jurists would say that if a man is unable to look at the woman himself, because she is overly covered, and is unable to get satisfactory knowledge about her condition, then he should send a woman to go and look for him. For example, al-Shahīd al-Thānī writes in his Masālik al-Afhām (vol. 7, pg. 40-41):

...

Of course, if a woman dresses with a lot of layers where it is hard to tell anything, then in that case before he even sends a marriage proposal a woman who can be trusted can be sent to observe the woman and describe her roughly for him. This is not meant to be a detailed inspection.

...

 

I read your piece on Iqraonline and it was very informative, and it also sounds much more sensible than asking her to strip in her father's house when preparing to propose. I only have two questions:

1. Since a woman (especially in the early period of Islam) could very well be a non-Muslim or someone with any personality trait you wouldn't want to be exposed to for the rest of your life, would an 'intent to marry' connotate awareness of a woman's religious affiliation and other desirable traits? It would seem so given the emphasis on prioritizing akhlaq/deen over beauty in the hadith literature, but im not entirely sure. 

2. For those who decide to send a woman to inspect the features of a potential wife, would this very limited inspection exclude the hair, neck and legs (besides the awrah that she is obliged to conceal in front of other females either way)? I ask because you said it isn't meant to be a detailed inspection and the hadith only mentions the ankles and odour as things to be inspected. The Nabi is the examplar for all muslims afterall. 

 

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On 10/1/2018 at 12:40 AM, Sumerian said:

How? Makes sense. don’t want to be partnering up with a deciever.

This is really strange, did she put that defect there, if not then who did? How is she deceiving when she'd been created like so? Who put that 'defect' there? am having difficulties eating & digesting this. These defects, shapes & skin types are not necessarily important, your judgement is clouded. 'fair in the eyes of men are things they covet, women, children...' 

So it seems that you'll disown your daughter because of a defect, she should be beautiful lest you're deceived. No wonder our sisters are like this, they try to conceal defects & in so doing become fake. Isn't compatibility looked for, like can so & so live together irrespective of defects, race, virgin or not, with children or not, wheeled chair, body shape, age, etc.

It is true, nobody likes to partner up with a deceiver, the deceiver is the one who shows you the defects in the creation of the Creator(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

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2 hours ago, Mzwakhe said:

This is really strange, did she put that defect there, if not then who did? How is she deceiving when she'd been created like so? Who put that 'defect' there? am having difficulties eating & digesting this. These defects, shapes & skin types are not necessarily important, your judgement is clouded. 'fair in the eyes of men are things they covet, women, children...' 

So it seems that you'll disown your daughter because of a defect, she should be beautiful lest you're deceived. No wonder our sisters are like this, they try to conceal defects & in so doing become fake. Isn't compatibility looked for, like can so & so live together irrespective of defects, race, virgin or not, with children or not, wheeled chair, body shape, age, etc.

It is true, nobody likes to partner up with a deceiver, the deceiver is the one who shows you the defects in the creation of the Creator(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

I don't understand your point bruv. This is a known fatwa, that deception is haram. What it means is that she concealed things from her husband, when he proposed, that should he have known about them wouldn't have married her.

It doesn't need to be physical defect, it can be a disease - like she has AIDs for example, but concealed it, because he wouldn't have married her had he known of it.

Or that they married based on the understanding that she is a virgin, but it turns out she isn't. In fact in such a case, he has the right to annull the contract.

The point is: Concealment for the sake of deception is haram.

I believe you misunderstood me. I'm not shaming people with defects, I'm saying decieving people (by concealment) for the sake of marriage is haram. 

Has nothing to do with disowning or hating people or having prejudice or whatever you are implying.

Edited by Sumerian

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9 hours ago, Sumerian said:

The point is:

ok, I get you now

 

9 hours ago, Sumerian said:

Concealment for the sake of deception is haram.

Let us look @ pre concealment, what led to the concealment in the first place, reason for meeting up is marriage in the name of Islam. Once our human requirements & that of Islam differ whilst focusing on the same subject of marriage then there'll be some concealment. 

9 hours ago, Sumerian said:

believe you misunderstood me.

 

9 hours ago, Sumerian said:

Has nothing to do with disowning or hating people or having prejudice or whatever you are implying

Got really disturbed, my apologies.

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11 hours ago, Sumerian said:

I'm not shaming people with defects

Would you marry someone who is compatible with you but is on wheelchair?

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Given that this fatwa relates to marriage, even if it is permissible to ask for a display of whatever hair body etc one wants to see, in the end, the other party is under no obligation to continue talks or proceed to marry someone who makes them uncomfortable for whatever reason :shifty:

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1 hour ago, habib e najjaar said:

Given that this fatwa relates to marriage, even if it is permissible to ask for a display of whatever hair body etc one wants to see, in the end, the other party is under no obligation to continue talks or proceed to marry someone who makes them uncomfortable for whatever reason :shifty:

is it all in the Qur'an though, all this permissibility to see a piece of hair or body shape before marrying or is it cultural? 

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