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In the Name of God بسم الله

Halal abortion?

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Carlzone

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59 minutes ago, notme said:

If the mother and father agree to hire a doctor to perform the abortion, the doctor would pay his co-conspirators? (By simply raising his fee, then giving a rebate, I assume.) It just sounds wrong. 

I don't know, that was the wording of ruling. I agree it doesn't make sense. 

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3 hours ago, rkazmi33 said:

In theory, no one can force you to marry but forced marriages do happen all the times. The ruling says that abortion is allowed if it causes unbearable difficulty. Unbearable difficulty is a vague term and it can be interpreted in different ways. 

Anyway I am not sure if you have found the ruling yet. The punishment for having abortion before the soul enters the fetus is paying blood money. If you want, I can add the ruling. 

Oh thank you sis! I'd be very happy if you can add the ruling! :)

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43 minutes ago, Carlzone said:

@Anonymous2144

Thank you so much for your post! 

I had no idea it was halal to abort a mutah child. Seems weird to me.

It is NOT, per Sayyid Sistani! 

Perhaps the marja of the hypothetical woman makes a difference. According to Sayyid Sistani abortion is only permitted in cases of life and death and before the 16th week of pregnancy. 

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@notme someone would have the heart to kill an unborn child because of the child being of the undesired gender?!

A woman who aborts due to that alone doesn’t deserve motherhood. 

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On 9/29/2018 at 2:21 PM, Sumerian said:

Let me make it clear to everyone, after the soul enters the fetus you cant abort the baby for what EVER reason. 

Even if a mother is at danger of dying? My mother had pre-eclampsia with all her pregnancies. The first child my parents had (my brother whom I’ve never met) died as a result of the dangerous condition my mother was in and she also almost died prior to the emergency c-section. 

When my mother became pregnant with me, the same thing happened, and the doctors said there was a high risk of my mother dying, so they tried to tell her to get an abortion. My mother obviously refused and so they injected a shot so my lungs could start working in the womb and I was born a day later since my mother’s water broke due to high blood pressure from the pre-eclampsia. 

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10 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

@notme someone would have the heart to kill an unborn child because of the child being of the undesired gender?!

A woman who aborts due to that alone doesn’t deserve motherhood. 

A person who would want that deserves to never have anyone to love them in life, followed by eternity in hellfire after their death. 

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5 hours ago, Carlzone said:

Oh thank you sis! I'd be very happy if you can add the ruling! :)

"Having abortion after the embryo gains life is not permissible under any circumstances. Abortion before the embryo gains life is not permissible except for when mother’s health (life) is at risk or when it leads to an insufferable sickness for her; if so, there would be no objection in having abortion. However, he who is directly involved in the abortion surgery (i.e. a surgeon) must pay diyah (blood money) to the parents and they can forgive."

these are the exact words from Syed Seestani's website. 

 

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7 hours ago, Carlzone said:

@Anonymous2144

Thank you so much for your post! 

I had no idea it was halal to abort a mutah child. Seems weird to me.

Sayyed fadlallah’s fatwa  sounds more logical to me, because Islam itself is not supposed be a burden or something very hard and difficult to adhere to and obviously Allah does not want any burden on us but the best for us. 

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13 minutes ago, eloquence said:

Are allowed to use birth control without the knowledge of the husband? I’ve read that before. I’m asking because a sister mentioned being forced to have children by family when she doesn’t want them?

Yes, a woman decides whether she wants to have children or not. A man cannot force her to have children. Unfortunately birth control methods aren't 100% secure. She might still get pregnant. 

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5 hours ago, eloquence said:

Are allowed to use birth control without the knowledge of the husband? I’ve read that before. I’m asking because a sister mentioned being forced to have children by family when she doesn’t want them?

The wife has full right to the use of contraceptives even without the approval of her husband. 20 However, she should not use a method which may come in the way of her husband's conjugal rights. For example, she cannot force him to use condom or practice coitus interruptus. 

This rule is based upon the principle that the extent of the husband's conjugal rights over his wife is just that she should be sexually available, responsive, and cooperative. This right does not extend to that of bearing children for him. Bearing children or not is a personal decision of the woman; and therefore, she may use contraceptives provided they do not come in the way of her husband's conjugal rights.

This was the legal aspect of the shari'ah. But on a practical level, such decisions are best made with mutual consultation between the husband and the wife; otherwise, it could lead to misunderstanding and mistrust. The legal aspect is to protect the basic rights of women; but in the real world, man and woman must base their life on love, mercy and cooperation as the Qur'an says, 

"And We have created between you love and mercy."(30:21)

 
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Ever since Texas banned abortion, I've come across quite a few Shias on twitter being heavily critical of the new law - giving the impression that Islam is generally in favour of a woman's right to what she wants with her own body. Which is really an absurd position for a Muslim to take, especially in public.

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2 hours ago, Ali_Hussain said:

Ever since Texas banned abortion, I've come across quite a few Shias on twitter being heavily critical of the new law - giving the impression that Islam is generally in favour of a woman's right to what she wants with her own body. Which is really an absurd position for a Muslim to take, especially in public.

The issue I have with the Texas law is that it pays bounties for turning in your neighbors, and that it fails to punish the man who has half of the responsibility for producing the pregnancy. 

I am not in favor of abortion, but that law is legislative overreach. 

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1 hour ago, notme said:

The issue I have with the Texas law is that it pays bounties for turning in your neighbors, and that it fails to punish the man who has half of the responsibility for producing the pregnancy. 

I am not in favor of abortion, but that law is legislative overreach. 

I haven't heard anyone mention anything about bounties for turning in your neighbour, nor have I seen it mentioned on the news. Either way how would that work in practice? That would only work for the really sick women who think it is ok to have late abortions or else no one would know if you have an abortion before you start to show.

"Punish" really isn't a nice term to use when talking about babies, but in Texas the biological father does have to pay child support - ( https://www.divorcelawtexas.com/txpages/childsupport/whopaychildsupportFAQ.asp )

- is that a form of punishment? Women in different situations get abortions, married women as well as women in long term relationships get them even though the father would have stuck around. I would like to see some statistics, but people seem to be assuming that women get abortiond only after one night stands or when the man has run away, which isn't the case.

It is also completely hypocritical for those who support abortion to make that argument because they also argue that a woman is allowed to get an abortion even if the father wants to keep the baby, it is a mainstream position for them ( https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/11/men-help-decide-woman-abortion )

 

Edited by Ali_Hussain
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6 minutes ago, Ali_Hussain said:

Just to show how extreme these people are, this isn't really a ban on abortion, you are still allow to have an abortion within the first six weeks of pregnancy.

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/01/1033202132/texas-abortion-ban-what-happens-next

Many or most women do not know they are pregnant until at least this long, but that is irrelevant. 

The issues are the bounty to be paid to snitches, and the lack of penalties for the father of the unborn child. The Texas law is misogyny.

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13 hours ago, Ali_Hussain said:

Ever since Texas banned abortion, I've come across quite a few Shias on twitter being heavily critical of the new law - giving the impression that Islam is generally in favour of a woman's right to what she wants with her own body. Which is really an absurd position for a Muslim to take, especially in public.

They are not criticizing it because they are 'for' abortion.

As muslims, we should be 'for' a women's right to choose, but we believe, and it is a very clear issue, that once the 'ruh' or the spirit enters into the fetus, the fetus is no longer part of the women's body, but is an independent human being with all the same rights as any other human being. So she has the right to choose while it is still part of 'her', i.e. before the soul enters the fetus. After that point, it is no longer 'her' so then the 'right to choose' is irrelevant. The soul enters the fetus when the fetus attaches itself

Here is a good article on this from the website of the late Sayyid Fadlallah(رضي الله عنه). It is from 2013, but still very relevant

http://english.bayynat.org/FiqhLaws/Fiqh_abortionlegitimacy .htm

The issue with the Texas law is that it 'turns neighbors against each other' which will have a detrimental impact on the society. It is a purely political move, as Republicans are under pressure from their base to pass some kind of legislation on abortion, and they have failed to pass anything significant so far. It was not done to stop abortion, because it is very easy for most women to travel to an adjacent state where abortion is legal, and it does not help the mother in any way (like giving her counseling, or financial assistance so that she will be less worried about raising a child). Also, it will probably be challenged in court and will be unable to be enforced. It is another 'dog and pony show' only. 

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I think the main thing brothers and sisters need to understand is that our position on this issue is different from the position of the 'right to choose' people and also different from the anti Roe v Wade people. We have our own position

1. We disagree with the Christian position that life begins at conception. According to our scholars and according the authentic hadith of Ahl Al Bayt and also Quran, life doesn't begin at conception but begins weeks after that point (during the first trimester). That's why using contraception is perfectly ok, and even using things that end the pregnancy before the 'ruh' enters the fetus, like RU-486 (sometimes called the 'abortion pill') is also ok to use. Before the 'ruh' enters the fetus, it is the women's and ideally the couples right to choose whether they want a child or not. Once the 'ruh' enters, it is no longer their choice to make

2. We disagree with the 'pro choice' people who say that the fetus is part of the women's body until it is viable outside the womb. They say this because they have guessed that it is only a human being once it can exist on it's own outside the womb, because most of them don't believe in a soul and believe a human being is just so many pounds of meat, electrical signals, and chemical processes. We as muslims don't believe that. 

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16 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

They are not criticizing it because they are 'for' abortion.

As muslims, we should be 'for' a women's right to choose, but we believe, and it is a very clear issue, that once the 'ruh' or the spirit enters into the fetus, the fetus is no longer part of the women's body, but is an independent human being with all the same rights as any other human being. So she has the right to choose while it is still part of 'her', i.e. before the soul enters the fetus. After that point, it is no longer 'her' so then the 'right to choose' is irrelevant. The soul enters the fetus when the fetus attaches itself.

There is no right to choose before the soul enters the fetus in the same way pro-choice activists advocate for.

It is simply a ruling which allows abortion before the entry of the soul under certain circumstances, mostly related to the mother's health.

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