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Abu Hadi

Wajib Kafiyat (Community Obligation) for Marriage

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Bismillah Ta'la

Salam, 

I have been requested to start this topic, so I will tell what I know. May Allah(s.w.a) forgive me if I make a mistake. 

There are certain instances where it is wajib on the community to do an act. This is known as wajib kafiyat. It is a community responsibility, to an extent that if this is not carried out, the entire community will have done haram and will suffer the consequences because every haram carries with it a penalty, whether in this life, the next or both. 

Some of these occasions where there is a wajib kafiyyat is well know, for example if a muslim(a) dies in a certain place, it is wajib on that community to give them the ghusl, kaffan, and bury them according to the hukm Sharia (Islamic laws) as much as they know. If a muslim dies in an area, and they are for example buried with the Christians or get eaten by wild animals, and the people of that community have the ability to give them a proper ghusl, kaffan, and burial, and they fail to do this, the entire community gets the penalty for that haram. If one person does it, the entire community is spared from that penalty. 

The second well known instance is when Jihad, in terms of fighting with weapons, is called for by a just and knowledgeable alim who is also mujtahid(i.e. a marjaa'). When this is called, it is wajib for the community to respond. In this case, it is not sufficient for one person to do this, but every able bodied man who has the ability to fight must do this and the women must help in terms of non combat supporting roles such as medial assistance. The most recent case of this was when Sayyid Ali Al Sistani(may Allah(s.w.a) bless him and give him long life) called for Jihad in Iraq against the terrorist takfiri gang of Daish and they were defeated at the hands of the brothers, Haji Shaabi, may Allah(s.w.a) help them and bless them. The brothers responded to the call, and thus the penalty was avoided. Only Allah(s.w.a) knows what suffering the people of Iraq would be going thru now did they not respond. 

Another instance which is not as well know, is the case when a man and women intend to marry and they ask for information regarding the potential spouse. If they ask about the character of the potential spouse, for the purposes of marriage, it is wajib on the person being asked to share information that they have regarding things that they have, in terms of things that they heard or saw with their own ears of their own eyes. If, for example, a man comes and asks about a women he has the intention of marrying, and the person being asked saw, with their own eyes, this person doing haram, such as drinking alcohol or carrying on an illegitimate relationship with someone who they were not married to, gambling, etc, it is wajib on that person to tell the potential husband. This is also the case if a women is asking about a man whom she has the intention of marrying. The scope of this discussion should stay between the person and the potential bride or groom, and they cannot then go and share this information with anyone other than the potential bride or groom. Again, they are only allowed to speak of something that they witnessed personally, and not anything they heard from someone else. Also, they are not allowed to speak to anyone else regarding this other than the potential husband or wife. They are not allowed to speak about it publicly. 

This is a wajib kafiya in that it is an obligation of every person in the community who may have this information. If the person who has this information is aware of the potential marriage and shares it in the appropriate way, then the community obligation has been fulfilled. 

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47 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

Another instance which is not as well know, is the case when a man and women intend to marry and they ask for information regarding the potential spouse.

What's your view on a practice at least amongst Indo/Pak people I know which is to ask about the family of the groom, for example. Questions about family may be to do with where they are originally from in the sub-continent and then to ascertain whether and who knows them etc.

So, in one recent instance a male proposer seemed ok in terms of presentation, education and employment (albeit a little on the old side), but when his mother and close family members were asked about relatives in Pk/In, they clammed up and said that they'd lost all contact.

 

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What if for example a sister came to me and asked me about so and so. And i had seen so and so drinking and partying once;however years have passed and i havent seen so and so. And now unknowing to me he is one of the best muslims. Wouldnt i be tarnishing this poor guys reputation after he has become a better muslim?

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2 hours ago, Miss Wonderful said:

What if for example a sister came to me and asked me about so and so. And i had seen so and so drinking and partying once;however years have passed and i havent seen so and so. And now unknowing to me he is one of the best muslims. Wouldnt i be tarnishing this poor guys reputation after he has become a better muslim?

If it is unknown to you, then what's wrong?

People should be given as much information as possible so they can make an educated decision.

Also, sometimes a person can be a good person in the community but still drink behind the scenes so better to lay all the cards on the table. 

Edited by ShiaMan14

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2 hours ago, Miss Wonderful said:

What if for example a sister came to me and asked me about so and so. And i had seen so and so drinking and partying once;however years have passed and i havent seen so and so. And now unknowing to me he is one of the best muslims. Wouldnt i be tarnishing this poor guys reputation after he has become a better muslim?

Just state the facts objectively. Say you had seen him drinking(once, twice, several times) X number of years ago but haven't seen him doing that since and from what you know he is a good muslim now. 

 

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2 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

What's your view on a practice at least amongst Indo/Pak people I know which is to ask about the family of the groom, for example. Questions about family may be to do with where they are originally from in the sub-continent and then to ascertain whether and who knows them etc.

So, in one recent instance a male proposer seemed ok in terms of presentation, education and employment (albeit a little on the old side), but when his mother and close family members were asked about relatives in Pk/In, they clammed up and said that they'd lost all contact.

 

From what I know, this obligation is only for the specific individual. Asking about family is ok, and always happens, but there is no specific obligation (wajibat) that I know of to tell about family. To discount a potential spouse because of strained family relationships(or origins) isn't usually wise because it doesn't say that much about the individual, whether positive or negative (all families have issues, lol) , unless it is the relationship with mother or father, and then it should be inquired about but not necesarily disqualify someone, unless they have done qata' al rahim for a reason that isn't valid (and there is almost never a valid reason, almost never). 

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3 hours ago, Miss Wonderful said:

What if for example a sister came to me and asked me about so and so. And i had seen so and so drinking and partying once;however years have passed and i havent seen so and so. And now unknowing to me he is one of the best muslims. Wouldnt i be tarnishing this poor guys reputation after he has become a better muslim?

It is your obligation to tell, but also to give the context and say that since that time, you have known this man to be a good muslim and member of the community. This is only if he was drinking alcohol and you were sure that it was alcohol. If you are not sure, you are not obligated to say anything and you shouldn't say anything.  'Partying' is a vague term, but if the 'Partying' involved a haram act that you were sure was haram and you witnessed, it is your obligation to inform in private, of course. Just telling once is enough, you don't have to press the issue. Then she can decide whether she wants to consider this information in her decision or not, i.e. whether it is relevant. That is up to her, but she deserves to know. 

If it is anyone else, besides the potential bride, that is asking you, it is actually wajib to not say anything, because it would be gheeba, even if you were an eyewitness. The only time it is not gheeba, and actually wajib to say, is this case (the potential bride). 

In all cases mentioning a haram act done by a muslim, even if you witnessed it, is gheeba. The only time it is not is the case mentioned above and also if you, yourself are being oppressed / suffering harm because of it (such as the case where a husband is physically abusing his wife) or if the person is doing fasad fil ard (spreading corruption on earth).  

At the same time, if you witness a muslim doing a haram act, you have an obligation of amr bil maroof....wa nahiya al munkhar (enjoining good and forbidding evil) as much as you can given the circumstances, but that is probably a topic for another thread. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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45 minutes ago, eloquence said:

Sometimes there’s hearsay about a person and their family in the community or maybe even from a previous potential rishta but you may not know them as such, what should you do in this case? 

If by 'hearsay' you mean that you heard something from someone else, that is gheeba. In order for you to mention it to the potential bride/ groom, it has to be mentioned in private and 

1) It must be an act which is clearly haram (like the above mentioned about drinking alcohol) 

2) You must have witnessed it with your own eyes. 

If it is anything else, not only is it not wajib to mention it, it is gheeba. I am trying to be clear on this so that there is no misunderstanding. 

But if the act met the above two conditions, and you don't mention it, and you have the ability to communicate with the potential bride/ groom in private, then it is wajib to mention it and  not mentioning it would be the same as not doing any other wajibat, like not praying or fasting. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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What would be the ruling if man knows after complete medical screening that he cannot become a father (as there are no living spirm cells in his semen) , and he share this information to his friend. 

Should the friend hide that information from his potential bride, whom he also knows?

Edited by Salsabeel

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As far as the Shar obligation to tell, I'm not sure if it extends to medical conditions, other than those conditions which will do direct harm to the wife (such as HIV/AIDS). Definitely the friend should encourage the man to tell his potential bride under the obligation of Amr bil Maroof....

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2 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

As far as the Shar obligation to tell, I'm not sure if it extends to medical conditions

When I heard this question, I thought that should we base our decision on the information given by medical experts or should we place our trust on Allah (s.w.t) alone. And that if we accept this information and base our decision on this information, would that not become a type of shirk!  

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2 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

When I heard this question, I thought that should we base our decision on the information given by medical experts or should we place our trust on Allah (s.w.t) alone. And that if we accept this information and base our decision on this information, would that not become a type of shirk!  

I don't think it would, because trust in Allah swt does not require one to reject medical findings or conditions. 

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12 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

When I heard this question, I thought that should we base our decision on the information given by medical experts or should we place our trust on Allah (s.w.t) alone. And that if we accept this information and base our decision on this information, would that not become a type of shirk!  

I have searched all the usual places and some unusual ones. I cannot find the answer to this question. (Your first post) I'm sorry. 

If someone else knows this, please post. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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On 9/23/2018 at 11:16 PM, Salsabeel said:

What would be the ruling if man knows after complete medical screening that he cannot become a father (as there are no living spirm cells in his semen) , and he share this information to his friend. 

Should the friend hide that information from his potential bride, whom he also knows?

I am going to give the same answer I gave earlier in this thread - state things objectively.

Ask her if she wishes to have children in the future. If her answer is yes tell her about his current semen analysis(which might or might not change in the future). She might like the person enough to consider marriage even if they have to be childless or she might want to consider other men.

The whole objective is to let the other person make an informed decision. 

The thing to remember here is that whoever Allah has destined for you will be yours, eventually. The test is to keep the process halal and fair for both parties.

Edited by starlight

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2 hours ago, starlight said:

The whole objective is to let the other person make an informed decision. 

The thing to remember here is that whoever Allah has destined for you will be yours, eventually. The test is to keep the process halal and fair for both parties.

Exactly, It seems to me a sort of moral obligation that the person should share this information with his potential bride prior to marriage. Same is the case with females who come to know after medical screening, that they cannot give birth to a child. 

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Yes, from my research all of the affairs you have mentioned are classified as Hisbiyya affairs Abu Hadi. And indeed scholars like Al-Karki, Shaheed Al-thani and Kashif Al-Ghita write on saving one who is drowning, or becoming a guardian for a struggling orphan etc as the responsibility of the community as you have mentioned. But I have not seen marriage among these affairs to be honest, so can you share your source for this belief please?

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Salam, 

The research is based on the premise that according to Islam, Marriage is a legal contract, and this contract has certain conditions in order to it to be valid. One of those conditions is that the marriage must be entered into freely, without compulsion, and there must be no fraud involved, otherwise the marriage contract is null and void. 

Here are some proofs from Sayyid Sistani

373.Question: What is the ruling concerning the right of the non-infected spouse in seeking separation?

Answer: If deception was involved in the marriage, in the sense that the husband or the wife concealed the fact that they had AIDS at the time of proposing, engagement, so much that the marriage contract (‘aqd) was recited based on that understanding, the deceived party has the right of annulment.

https://goaloflife.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/ayatullah-sayyid-ali-as-sistani-a-code-of-practice-for-muslims-in-the-west.pdf

Now, for example, is it allowed to go around spreading the fact that someone has the HIV virus in the community. The answer is, of course no, but for marriage purposes, it is not only allowed but required (wajib) such that if it is not told, the marriage is void. 

Here is another issue, also from Sayyid Sistani, with regards to deciption in marriage

Question: Is it permissible for a virgin girl to use the light beauty powder in order to draw attention [to herself] in ladies only gatherings? What if she does so with the purpose of seeking marriage — wouldn’t it be counted as concealing physical defects, [if there were any]?

Answer: It is permissible for her to do that and it would not be regarded as “concealing the physical defects”. Even if it were, it would not be harãm unless she was intent on deceiving the person who wants to marry her.

https://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01284/

This goes to show that concealing significant defects from a person you wish to marry, even physical defects, is not allowed, i.e. it is haram. Concealing from other is perfectly fine. 

Here is another passage from the well know book 'Islamic Marriage Handbook' by Sayyid Athar Husayn S.H. Rizvi

Ali Akber Mazaheri writes: “... The Shariah permits the intended spouses to see each other for the purpose of selection and also permits asking and giving opinions if asked (without it being considered as gheebat under certain conditions.) We should never resort to deceive the opposite party or conceal a defect during the selection process. Such things can have serious ramifications if exposed after marriage

So concealing defects from a potential spouse is haram, and in some cases grounds for annulment of the marriage. This shows that there are different rules when it comes to marriage, with regards to concealing defects in a deliberate way, vs. doing this not in the context of marriage. 

https://www.al-islam.org/printpdf/book/export/html/13292

So according to my research, concealing defects deliberately, in a fradulent way is haram and may be grounds to annul the marriage. 

Now, some will ask, 'Well that is between the husband and wife (potential), it has nothing to do with the community'. 

But is does. In Islam(and also according to most secular legal systems) , it is very clear that a person who 'conspires' with another to commit a crime is a co-conspirator, and therefore shares some of the penalty and some of the responsibility for the crime. In Islam, the criminal and the co conspirators are 'zawaj', partners in the act. There is a well known phrase in English, 'Partners in Crime'. 

Imam Muhammad Al Baqir(a.s) was asked why did Allah(s.w.a) destroy the people of Salih, when it was only one person who killed the She Camel. The Imam(a.s) replied that the perpetrators of the crime consisted of three, the one who slew the camel, the ones who helped him to do it, and the ones who consented to and were satisfied with the act, and these three are 'zawaj', partners in the act, so all of them deserve punishment. 

This shows that the perpetrator of the fraud, the potential spouse, and the ones who help him/her in the act, i.e. the ones who know they are doing fraud but stay silent are partners in the act. Although these passages only talk about certain acts, like conceling physical defects and HIV AIDS, a logical conclusion can be drawn that any past act which could severely affect the life or health of the other partner is conceiled, then the concealing of that that act is wrong, and it is the wajib of those community members not to be a partner to concealing this act. Obviously, good sense and judgement need to be exercised in deciding what needs to be revealed, and what should not be revealed, but if it is an obvious case, it should be revealed. 

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On 9/29/2018 at 2:36 PM, Abu Hadi said:

Salam, 

The research is based on the premise that according to Islam, Marriage is a legal contract, and this contract has certain conditions in order to it to be valid. One of those conditions is that the marriage must be entered into freely, without compulsion, and there must be no fraud involved, otherwise the marriage contract is null and void. 

Here are some proofs from Sayyid Sistani

373.Question: What is the ruling concerning the right of the non-infected spouse in seeking separation?

Answer: If deception was involved in the marriage, in the sense that the husband or the wife concealed the fact that they had AIDS at the time of proposing, engagement, so much that the marriage contract (‘aqd) was recited based on that understanding, the deceived party has the right of annulment.

https://goaloflife.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/ayatullah-sayyid-ali-as-sistani-a-code-of-practice-for-muslims-in-the-west.pdf

Now, for example, is it allowed to go around spreading the fact that someone has the HIV virus in the community. The answer is, of course no, but for marriage purposes, it is not only allowed but required (wajib) such that if it is not told, the marriage is void. 

Here is another issue, also from Sayyid Sistani, with regards to deciption in marriage

Question: Is it permissible for a virgin girl to use the light beauty powder in order to draw attention [to herself] in ladies only gatherings? What if she does so with the purpose of seeking marriage — wouldn’t it be counted as concealing physical defects, [if there were any]?

Answer: It is permissible for her to do that and it would not be regarded as “concealing the physical defects”. Even if it were, it would not be harãm unless she was intent on deceiving the person who wants to marry her.

https://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01284/

This goes to show that concealing significant defects from a person you wish to marry, even physical defects, is not allowed, i.e. it is haram. Concealing from other is perfectly fine. 

Here is another passage from the well know book 'Islamic Marriage Handbook' by Sayyid Athar Husayn S.H. Rizvi

Ali Akber Mazaheri writes: “... The Shariah permits the intended spouses to see each other for the purpose of selection and also permits asking and giving opinions if asked (without it being considered as gheebat under certain conditions.) We should never resort to deceive the opposite party or conceal a defect during the selection process. Such things can have serious ramifications if exposed after marriage

So concealing defects from a potential spouse is haram, and in some cases grounds for annulment of the marriage. This shows that there are different rules when it comes to marriage, with regards to concealing defects in a deliberate way, vs. doing this not in the context of marriage. 

https://www.al-islam.org/printpdf/book/export/html/13292

So according to my research, concealing defects deliberately, in a fradulent way is haram and may be grounds to annul the marriage. 

Now, some will ask, 'Well that is between the husband and wife (potential), it has nothing to do with the community'. 

But is does. In Islam(and also according to most secular legal systems) , it is very clear that a person who 'conspires' with another to commit a crime is a co-conspirator, and therefore shares some of the penalty and some of the responsibility for the crime. In Islam, the criminal and the co conspirators are 'zawaj', partners in the act. There is a well known phrase in English, 'Partners in Crime'. 

Imam Muhammad Al Baqir(a.s) was asked why did Allah(s.w.a) destroy the people of Salih, when it was only one person who killed the She Camel. The Imam(a.s) replied that the perpetrators of the crime consisted of three, the one who slew the camel, the ones who helped him to do it, and the ones who consented to and were satisfied with the act, and these three are 'zawaj', partners in the act, so all of them deserve punishment. 

This shows that the perpetrator of the fraud, the potential spouse, and the ones who help him/her in the act, i.e. the ones who know they are doing fraud but stay silent are partners in the act. Although these passages only talk about certain acts, like conceling physical defects and HIV AIDS, a logical conclusion can be drawn that any past act which could severely affect the life or health of the other partner is conceiled, then the concealing of that that act is wrong, and it is the wajib of those community members not to be a partner to concealing this act. Obviously, good sense and judgement need to be exercised in deciding what needs to be revealed, and what should not be revealed, but if it is an obvious case, it should be revealed. 

So, In other words, you have formulated this conclusion based on your own research and not that from any known scholar. Of course, all of the Hadiths you mention are great,and helping people to get married is awesome,  but no one is actually saying what you said at the beginning of this topic directly (that marriage is part of hisbiyya affairs/ is wajib kafiyat for community) . You have come to this conclusion based on your own research. And that is fine, but please do not spread this as if it is a ruling from a marji', as it is not. 

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