Khomeini, destroyer of the faith?

[hasanhh]

6 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

In my opinion women in iran have too much freedom. 

l do not believe it is "freedom" but poor choices some will make and some want to make.

A "bad hijab" is used as a sign of "resistance", but it is still a bad hijab. Now under the Taliban, Afghani women wore white socks. 

[hasanhh]

5 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

FWIW criticism

What is the English translation?

 

6 hours ago, abdulhamid said:

The limit is where it harms another person. How a woman dresses has no effect on you. Stealing your car has an effect on you.

 

^^ln my old neighborhood, there was this girl who walked across town in her bikini to the swimming pool everyday, until enough complaints came in the police stopped it.

l guess you prefer this? Or was she wearing too much?

 

6 hours ago, abdulhamid said:

Absolutely false. If you have proof, I will happily accept it. I guess many weren't alive to say they didn't love him.

^^^^A poor line of discussion.

4 hours ago, abdulhamid said:

I'm perhaps badly influenced by the hundreds of Iranians I know and speak to daily.

^^^lf you talk this much, then when do you have time to think or whatever? Which is probably why alidu78 wrote:

4 hours ago, alidu78 said:

[abdulhamid -ed.] No you just talk for say nothing honnestly you talk without any arguments. 

 

[ShiaMan14]

8 hours ago, abdulhamid said:

Well, I appreciate the calm and measured response. I wish every day I never popped out of the womb, dunya is not a great place. However, "political power" is not what we should seek, and what do numbers mean if they follow the innovations of these false idols?

 

5 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Isnt the whole shia vs sunni struggle about the Caliphs stealing Imam Ali (as) political power?

 

5 hours ago, abdulhamid said:

Yes, I believe it is.

So while the Shia vs Sunni struggle revolves around political power, as shias we should not strive for political power???

@abdulhamid - there is a big flaw in your argument. You say every iranian you speak with is against Khomenie. What if you are only speaking with anti-Khomenie Iranians? Its like me asking every single Nazi if they like Jews and then make a sweeping statement that all Germans hate Jews.

The millions and millions of Iranians who gather at Mashad at the Shrine of Imam Ali Reza (as) might disagree with you and that is actual proof instead of hearsay by you.

[abdulhamid]

13 minutes ago, ShiaMan14 said:

 

 

So while the Shia vs Sunni struggle revolves around political power, as shias we should not strive for political power???

Correct, in my opinion, we should not. How did Amir ul Momineen (AS) react when they usurped the caliphate? Did he raise an army? We know of his many acts of heroism and strength in battle, yet did he fight? He showed the ultimate patience. Even after they murdered his beloved wife (AS) and unborn child (AS). There is a message in there for me, and it is not "seek political power". Others may disagree.

Quote

@abdulhamid - there is a big flaw in your argument. You say every iranian you speak with is against Khomenie. What if you are only speaking with anti-Khomenie Iranians? Its like me asking every single Nazi if they like Jews and then make a sweeping statement that all Germans hate Jews.

The millions and millions of Iranians who gather at Mashad at the Shrine of Imam Ali Reza (as) might disagree with you and that is actual proof instead of hearsay by you.

Yes, you are correct by definition. I may have selection bias. I am not sure how attending the shrine of the holy Imam Ridha (AS) has anything to do with it though? Are you implying that because they love the Imam (AS) they would also love Khomeini? I'm not sure how that automatically follows. Certainly I see there are plenty of people who love Khomeini in this forum, so there must be a few others. Alhamdulillah I will never count myself as one of them, but I see at least they exist.

Edited September 21, 2018 by abdulhamid

[abdulhamid]

1 hour ago, shia farm girl said:

Assalamualaikum,    @abdulhamid I want to back up to your comment about hijab and about how not wearing it doesn't hurt anybody. There's a couple of false ideas here, one is the idea that not wearing hijab doesn't hurt anyone. Islam and the rules of Islam were designed to take EVERYONE in society and their strengths and weaknesses  into consideration, from the person who is the weakest link, all the way  to the strongest willed person. Yes, many brothers may be able to walk past a practically naked woman and keep their glance down, and they're not the ones we are worried about. The ones Islam is concerned about here are the weak links, the one who can't handle looking at a woman who is even 3/4 dressed, the one who's ready to snap at any moment,  maybe due to mental disabilities or other factors that prevent him (or her) from having a strong hold on his/her reactions to these types of stimuli and things. Those are the people that the rulings of Islam are taking into consideration regarding what they are exposed to of the opposite gender. Yes, the average person can handle it, but there are many people in society that are weak and cannot handle it, and they are the ones that we have to "protect".

What I see not taken into account or considered in the statement is the spiritual welfare of all involved, not just looking at the outward effect of things. Even a strong-willed man who accidentally sees a woman not appropriately dressed still has the potential of it having a negative spiritual effect on his soul. This is why all the Sharia laws are there, to protect and help Elevate our souls. This is the very basics of Islam. The things that are harram are forbidden because they have a negative effect on our souls,  the things that are Halal, have a positive action and effect on our soul and help elevate us, whereas mustahab has a positive effect and makruh has a negative affect, although to lesser degrees than the haram and halal do.

The other issue that is highly overlooked, is womens own psychological as well as spiritual welfare. Many people may disagree with me on this, and that is the internal reaction that having a hijab on has. The more you cover and are  modest within society, the more you suppress your ego and detach from the  dunya and its fleetingness. .Throughout the entire Quran, you find what it is focussed on is eradicating our ego and completely submitting to Allah. When someone, man or woman, highlights their self/nafs/animalistic traits by advertising their beauty/sexuality, they are essentially increasing their ego and moving further from the path of Allah, which is something we as Muslims should be striving to diminish as much as possible. When not dressing modestly, both men and women, they are also partly incurring the responsibility of any sins they are in part a cause of in other people. We cannot just go around instigating and illiciting  bad behaviors in other people, thoughts included, and expect to not be held accountable for them someday. Everything we do has an effect in the algrithym Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى has designed creation to function  according to..Plainly and simply put, it is cause and effect..What we put into this algrithym affects what we experience in the here and now, as well as our accounting  after we die.

People  who  emanate these undesirable  behaviors affect the rest of society.  Islam didn't come to just address the individual--rules in Islam are in place because they protect Society at large, but in order for that to work, individuals need to be self accountable and  follow the rules,  so even if a woman doesn't want to wear hijab, or she is not concerned about her own spiritual or psychological welfare, her responsibilities as a decent, unselfish  human being within Society, ESPECIALLY an Islamic one, is to be concerned for her fellow societal members health, emotionally, physically, and spiritually, and psychologically, to whatever degree she has an affect on them...It's not just all about her and what she wants to do with herself, as is the western idea of "freedom".  Interestingly, you will find the philosophy behind those kinds of rules to be found throughout all societies, that people can't just go and do what they want to do because it will hurt other people. This is the same basis and reasoning behind the hijab laws and Islam. Just because other countries, especially Western ones, don't care what people wear, doesn't mean that it's not having an ill effect on society. Seriously, it's pretty obvious that it has, and anyone who can ignore and deny that is willfully blind to the reality of the situation and to the nature of mankind and its animalistic element, which as muslims, is what we are to subdue within the guidelines of Islam.

W/s

Thank-you sister for your considered and comprehensive post. Mashallah. It is certainly much to think about, and I agree with you entirely. It is slightly adjacent to my point, though. All you say is true, but is that a reason to force it upon people who don't want to? Is there not a detrimental effect of forcing religion on those who do not want it? Might that detrimental effect not be worse than the effect of not wearing hijab. I am pro-hijab. I find *nothing* more attractive in a woman than modesty, but the compulsion of it does not fit so well with me. Thanks again.

[abdulhamid]

3 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

It’s a total lie , I remember completely that days even whole of my family stayed in home and didn’t participate in funeral but we don’t have to pay any sort of punishment for this ,your wife or you are liars , Iranians except students & some officials that migrate to western countries say that don’t like regime even a group of people nside Iran are stating it because of hardships specially in recent years but even now a group of migrants are becoming more sympathetic toward current regime 

one question only people that visited Israel have problem for visiting Iran as political problems , do you have any connection with Israel !? I want to know that you pay or work free as a hasbara troll

Well, I shall ignore the insults, which are frankly beneath you, but no, I have nothing to do with Israel.

Edited September 21, 2018 by abdulhamid

[Ashvazdanghe]

11 minutes ago, abdulhamid said:

Well, I shall ignore the insults, which are frankly beneath you, but no, I have nothing to do with Israel.

Oh my gosh another shiachat troll to waste life & time with 4 page record.

Edited September 21, 2018 by Ashvazdanghe

[Panzerwaffe]

2 hours ago, hasanhh said:

l do not believe it is "freedom" but poor choices some will make and some want to make.

A "bad hijab" is used as a sign of "resistance", but it is still a bad hijab. Now under the Taliban, Afghani women wore white socks. 

Bro women should be in a loose chaddar kind of like what most Iranian women wear but I was talking about urban rich women who have a miserable excuse of a hijab N tight clothes 

[ShiaMan14]

50 minutes ago, abdulhamid said:

Correct, in my opinion, we should not. How did Amir ul Momineen (AS) react when they usurped the caliphate? Did he raise an army? We know of his many acts of heroism and strength in battle, yet did he fight? He showed the ultimate patience. Even after they murdered his beloved wife (AS) and unborn child (AS). There is a message in there for me, and it is not "seek political power". Others may disagree.

It sure seems like you want to see a weakened shia populace.

I made no mention of seeking political power. I said we are strong politically. That means the world cares about our opinion. The world recognizes that an organized Shia Ummah is the most powerful force in the world as long as we are united. A lot of credit for it goes to our esteemed marajae. 

Imam Ali (as) is on record that if he had 40 people he could have counted on, he would have risen up. 

Imam Ali Reza (as) became heir-apparent. Do you think he was wrong or incorrectly politically motivated?

51 minutes ago, abdulhamid said:

Yes, you are correct by definition. I may have selection bias. I am not sure how attending the shrine of the holy Imam Ridha (AS) has anything to do with it though? Are you implying that because they love the Imam (AS) they would also love Khomeini? I'm not sure how that automatically follows. Certainly I see there are plenty of people who love Khomeini in this forum, so there must be a few others. Alhamdulillah I will never count myself as one of them, but I see at least they exist.

Are the millions forced to go to the shrines or do so willingly? If you say they are forced, then you would be a liar.

If you say they willingly go, then the whole argument that Iranians are forced to follow religion becomes moot.

Of course, your next argument will be that going to shrines and following religion are not related....

[Abu Nur]

Quote

Correct, in my opinion, we should not. How did Amir ul Momineen (AS) react when they usurped the caliphate? Did he raise an army? We know of his many acts of heroism and strength in battle, yet did he fight? He showed the ultimate patience. Even after they murdered his beloved wife (AS) and unborn child (AS). There is a message in there for me, and it is not "seek political power". Others may disagree.

That is a very different situation and time. He did not fight because it will cause fitna in early Islam and will also contradict the teaching of the Qur'an and Sunnah. There were so many times in time of Prophet Muhammad (saws) that he could destroy the whole Abu Sufyan, but he did not, because Islam have high ethical principles that wants to make peace with enemy without going to full war. 

[PureExistence1]

@abdulhamid

Salaam brother, youre welcome, and thankyou for the recognition of my post. I can see your concern about possibly pushing someone away from the religion based on them being forced to do something they do not want to do, do I have that understanding right?

A woman having a particular issue about wearing hijab  or not is not simply an issue between her and Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى like a bad habit she may do in private.. the type of woman we are discussing is not living on an island isolated from society where her actions have no other bearing than on herself.  Her responsibility by default of being a human being, muslim and an active and visual member of society is not only to herself and Allah, but to her brothers and sisters in mankind as well. This is where her feelings of dislike for wearing it become practically irrelevant, because it's not just about her and her feelings, but the effect that she has on the rest of society. When men or women behave in immoral ways, it facilitates the means and ways to the  dissolution of family due to harram actions such as infidelity and fornication, etc. Allah says in the Quran:

Chapter (17) sūrat l-isrā (The Night Journey)

Sahih International: And do not approach unlawful sexual intercourse. Indeed, it is ever an immorality and is evil as a way.

Pickthall: And come not near unto adultery. Lo! it is an abomination and an evil way.

Yusuf Ali: Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).

Shakir: And go not nigh to fornication; surely it is an indecency and an evil way.

Muhammad Sarwar: Do not even approach adultery. It is indecent and an evil act.

Mohsin Khan: And come not near to the unlawful sexual intercourse. Verily, it is a Fahishah [i.e. anything that transgresses its limits (a great sin)], and an evil way (that leads one to Hell unless Allah forgives him).

Arberry: And approach not fornication; surely it is an indecency, and evil as a way.

 

An immorally dressed woman facilitates and potentiates the first step towards these actions.  It sends a signal to men that shes "ready", "approachable", non religious, etc regardless of whether she truly is thatvway or not. Much of how humans interact is done on a subconscious level with body language and behaviors. We shoud remember to take into consideration that hijab consists of more than just physical covering. 

I am a convert of 9 years now, and I have to say, that I think one of the biggest problems with people acknowledging certain elements of Islam, including people who are so-called practicing Muslims, is the fact that they do not understand the real meaning behind why these rules are there. I think a lot of these people need to be educated on why the Sharia exists in the first place. I had issues with this stuff too, especially being that I'm a tomboy, I grew up on a farm and I was working in landscaping up until a year or so after I became Muslim. I had very masculine jobs and I had a problem with a lot of what Islam says a woman is supposed to be and how she is supposed to act... But this was only until I gained the deeper and inner understanding of WHY Allah requures us to submitt in these ways. At that point, pretty much everything about me began to change, because I saw the Beauty and the wisdom behind Allahs rulings and guidance.

Whatever a woman's reason is for rejecting hijab, she should learn to understand that she has a responsibility to her fellow members of society and their wellbeing. Islam is not cafeteria style, we can not pick and choose what we want to practice and then still call ourselves muslims. That is closer to being mushrikin by committing hidden  shirk,  where we put OUR reasoning, logic and wants/desires on par with Allahs reasoning, wants and commandments for us. 

I saw you mentioned the detrimental effect of forcing religion upon somebody. The way I see it is, if a person wants to be immature and lead by ego and not investigate the deeper reasons and understanding of their religion and therefore reject the wisdom behind it, that's their trial and that's on them. For example, where i am at,  it's mandatory to have car insurance in order for us to drive. Do I like paying for my car insurance? no:/  do I WANT  to pay for it? no:/ is it hard for me to afford it? yes, but at the end of the day, this is  a law thats in place for the common welfare of other people, as are many other laws that we have, and i accept and submitt to them. Are there negative ramifications to me by submitting to it? Yes, but my reason and intellect tells me it's something that I have to do based on these other factors. Will I suffer the consequences for this if I don't pay for my insurance and I get into an accident? Yes, I will, in this Dunya, and possibly in the next if I get into an accident and hurt somebody and their family suffers extremely because I didn't have insurance to pay for their medical bills, so essentially I have oppressed them as well as myself. I have created grief and financial hardship in their lives because I want to be immature,irresponsible,ignorant,rebellious  and selfish in my actions. Sometimes we have to do things we don't like for the common welfare of the people around us, and hijab is no different than this except it carries heavy social as well as spiritual ramifications.  The West thinks the most important thingfor usto base everything on is financial ramifications and our "feelings"  which couldn't be further from the truth. And that's the problem with judging the world using  only economics and or "feelings" as a reason for why we commit certain actions instead of looking at what Islam teaches us about the  present spiritual and long-term spiritual effects our actions will have.

Its like Imam Ali(AS) said: "There is enoughh light for those who want to see."

So the two issues I see here is, a person needs to be educated about why Islam commands us to do these things, so IN SHA Allah, they will make the decision to follow these laws based on their reason and rationality.

Second, if getting them to understand from the Islamic angle fails, say tbey do not identify as muslim for example, the Quran says most people will not believe, Nay, they're worse than cattle, and  if that is the case, then they at least need to understand that there will always be laws in whatever country and Society they live in that they need to follow, and many of those laws will in fact be things that they do not want to do, but there is no other choice because it is the law. In Iran for example, hijab is the law.. In United States, driving with insurance is the law. Either way, they are the legal law and everybody abiding in that country needs to follow those laws regardless of if they like them or not. We are supposed to follow the laws of the country in which we live, unless it goes against Islam.

W/s

[hasanhh]

1 hour ago, Panzerwaffe said:

but I was talking about urban rich

Be more clear next time, please.

Hey, l make the same mistake.

[ali_fatheroforphans]

@abdulhamid why didn't you answer my "there is no compulsion in religion" question.

Edited September 22, 2018 by ali_fatheroforphans

[Notperfectmuslim]

10 hours ago, abdulhamid said:

Al-Baqara 256 of The Holy Quran explicitly forbids compulsion in religion. Women should not be compelled to even be muslim. It's obvious if you think about it. Look at some Iranian womens' hijab. It's like a postage stamp of cloth on the head, covering nothing. There is no modesty there with makeup and high-heels and other ridiculous things. How does forcing a small cloth on the head help?

 

As for human rights violations, these are clear. Imprisonment without trial, right of appeal, right to free speech, etc, etc, etc, etc. These are all human rights violations.

 

You do know that Iran consists of Christian's atheists etc, and they are forced to wear a hijab on there head it's not fashion it's Sharia law. Also many tourist come to Iran do you want them to be forced to wear the hijab properly? No they wear it on there head to respect the laws of the country they are in...

Anyways my conclusion there is no perfect caliphate or Islamic state until imam Ali Mahdi returns to this dunya, so the best we can do is not judge and have faith in Allah and their regime.

(As well many of the human right violations they speak of is propaganda by America to give Iran a bad name I watch many vlog videos of trips to Iran I never see negativity unless it's the feminist freedom fighters or think the hijab is opression)

[ali_fatheroforphans]

1 hour ago, abdulhamid said:

All you say is true, but is that a reason to force it upon people who don't want to? Is there not a detrimental effect of forcing religion on those who do not want it? Might that detrimental effect not be worse than the effect of not wearing hijab. I am pro-hijab. I find *nothing* more attractive in a woman than modesty, but the compulsion of it does not fit so well with me. Thanks again.

Why are you picking on Iran for forcing hijab on women? It is their own understanding and we have to respect a different point of view.

Again answer my question as in why some maraja allow physical punishment when it comes to Islamic laws (apart from Imam Khomeini)?

[abdulhamid]

18 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Why are you picking on Iran for forcing hijab on women? It is their own understanding and we have to respect a different point of view.

Again answer my question as in why some maraja allow physical punishment when it comes to Islamic laws (apart from Imam Khomeini)?

12 hours ago, abdulhamid said:

e.g. hijab for women

From my original post "e.g." it was an example, that's all. Do you think "Saudi do it too" is a good reason to do something? I don't. Seems to me to be a good reason to not do something.

As for your other question, you want me to read their minds?

[ShiaMan14]

10 hours ago, abdulhamid said:

Wa aleykum assalam

Really? The Creator of the universe protects his religion. There will be no slow death or any other death until ghiyamat. This is the path HE has laid out for us.

Al-Baqara 256 of The Holy Quran explicitly forbids compulsion in religion. Women should not be compelled to even be muslim. It's obvious if you think about it. Look at some Iranian womens' hijab. It's like a postage stamp of cloth on the head, covering nothing. There is no modesty there with makeup and high-heels and other ridiculous things. How does forcing a small cloth on the head help?

 

As for human rights violations, these are clear. Imprisonment without trial, right of appeal, right to free speech, etc, etc, etc, etc. These are all human rights violations.

 

Singapore violated my right to chew gum. You know what I did? I didn't chew gum because I respected the law of the land.

Similarly, Iran can set any law it wants. Visitors have a choice to comply or not go there.

Locals should rise up and demand change.

[ShiaMan14]

1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Oh my gosh another shiachat troll to waste life & time with 4 page record.

I have saying on SC and every where I get an opportunity that the 2 reasons we have survived are Azadari and our Marajae.

Both are under constant threat...used to be by external forces and now even internal forces. Of course some just pretend to be one of us but threaten nevertheless.

Our standard defense should be to reject everything and everyone who speaks against either unless they bring forth ample proof.

[ali_fatheroforphans]

9 minutes ago, abdulhamid said:

From my original post "e.g." it was an example, that's all. Do you think "Saudi do it too" is a good reason to do something? I don't. Seems to me to be a good reason to not do something.

As for your other question, you want me to read their minds?

Look, you tried to refute Iran's law of "forced hijab" by using that "there is no compulsion in religion" verse. However this doesn't apply to Ahkam, and can technically be used for enjoining good and forbidding evil.

Also our maraja don't give rulings based on their personal desires or preferences,  so it's not about reading their minds. Our maraja come up with rulings based on their extensive research in Islamic traditions. So my point is that why havent they considered this verse when they allow physical punishment when it comes to Ahkam? Do you think that you understand the Quran better than them?

Edited September 22, 2018 by ali_fatheroforphans

[abdulhamid]

3 minutes ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Singapore violated my right to chew gum. You know what I did? I didn't chew gum because I respected the law of the land.

Similarly, Iran can set any law it wants. Visitors have a choice to comply or not go there.

Locals should rise up and demand change.

Ah yes brother, you nailed it. Does Singapore blame these violations on religion? Iran has no choice, they must claim all their laws stem from religion, because all the political power stems from that. And herein marks the problem. To create a new law, they must create an equal innovation to justify it. In theory, I'm just saying.

They will rise up eventually, insha'Allah. We see what happens to people when they try to oppose the regime, but eventually it will be too much to bear. insha'Allah.

Ya Ali

[abdulhamid]

7 minutes ago, ShiaMan14 said:

I have saying on SC and every where I get an opportunity that the 2 reasons we have survived are Azadari and our Marajae.

Both are under constant threat...used to be by external forces and now even internal forces. Of course some just pretend to be one of us but threaten nevertheless.

Our standard defense should be to reject everything and everyone who speaks against either unless they bring forth ample proof.

Sad. Am I the only one who thinks that The Most High Creator and Protector protects the religion?

[Anonymous2144]

In my opinion, I think this guy is twisting a lot of things. I believe that Iranians don’t hate imam Khomeini but they hate some particular rulings for example the hijab which is a common issue (I’ll speak on that later on the post). Imam Khomeini is actually very knowledgeable man (even though i respectfully disagree with him in some particular subjects) many people follow him and travel to visit his grave (i had the opportunity to), he also attracted a lot of people to islam particularly shia Islam. 

About the hijab in my opinion it shouldn’t be forced but there should be limit to the women’s code for example not wearing shorts or showing to much skin and etc. just like how most western countries have limits. 

His done many good for us Shi’a i don’t see why you should hate him or anything. 

[realizm]

1 hour ago, Anonymous2144 said:

In my opinion, I think this guy is twisting a lot of things. I believe that Iranians don’t hate imam Khomeini but they hate some particular rulings for example the hijab which is a common issue (I’ll speak on that later on the post). Imam Khomeini is actually very knowledgeable man (even though i respectfully disagree with him in some particular subjects) many people follow him and travel to visit his grave (i had the opportunity to), he also attracted a lot of people to islam particularly shia Islam. 

About the hijab in my opinion it shouldn’t be forced but there should be limit to the women’s code for example not wearing shorts or showing to much skin and etc. just like how most western countries have limits. 

His done many good for us Shi’a i don’t see why you should hate him or anything. 

Actually the compulsory 'piece of cloth on the head' is quite a good limit. 

It implies a certain dress code which goes along with it.

[ShiaMan14]

3 hours ago, abdulhamid said:

Ah yes brother, you nailed it. Does Singapore blame these violations on religion? Iran has no choice, they must claim all their laws stem from religion, because all the political power stems from that. And herein marks the problem. To create a new law, they must create an equal innovation to justify it. In theory, I'm just saying.

They will rise up eventually, insha'Allah. We see what happens to people when they try to oppose the regime, but eventually it will be too much to bear. insha'Allah.

Ya Ali

Wearing Hijab is a new law?

3 hours ago, abdulhamid said:

Sad. Am I the only one who thinks that The Most High Creator and Protector protects the religion?

Sad indeed for you lack even basic knowledge. Did Allah protect the Prophet (saw) when he was young or Abu Talib?

Allah did through Abu Talib. Similarly Allah has chosen azadari and marajae to protect us in the ghaybat..

I swear by Allah that by the time this discussion is over, I will prove you to be an anti-marja, anti-azadari fake-shia so you keep responding.

Edited September 22, 2018 by ShiaMan14

[Soldiers and Saffron]

14 hours ago, notme said:

If the OP offered some sort of evidence for his claims rather than just "in my opinion", we might have a more interesting discussion. 

Threads like this just brings down the quality of the forum, thats all there is to it.

This person here outright accuses seyyed Khomeini and seyyed Khamenei of being thieves and hypocrites. Based on what? Is that a small accusation to make?

And he has had conversations with some Iranian he personally has met abroad, so now this guy here is speaking on behalf of all the Iranians in the world I guess.

 

Whats the point of catering to these accusations and assumptions made out of thin air? Are we going to cater to every disrespectful and self righteous person who makes threads clearly breaking the forum rules now? Trust me, he is loving this attention.

There is no useful discussion here, just him pulling "facts" out of think air, breaking forums rules and some of us trying to discuss with him, which will not yield anything because this guy could just conjure some more facts out of thin air to convince himself, he can never be wrong.

[ShiaMan14]

13 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

Threads like this just brings down the quality of the forum, thats all there is to it.

This person here outright accuses seyyed Khomeini and seyyed Khamenei of being thieves and hypocrites. Based on what? Is that a small accusation to make?

And he has had conversations with some Iranian he personally has met abroad, so now this guy here is speaking on behalf of all the Iranians in the world I guess.

 

Whats the point of catering to these accusations and assumptions made out of thin air? Are we going to cater to every disrespectful and self righteous person who makes threads clearly breaking the forum rules now? Trust me, he is loving this attention.

There is no useful discussion here, just him pulling "facts" out of think air, breaking forums rules and some of us trying to discuss with him, which will not yield anything because this guy could just conjure some more facts out of thin air to convince himself, he can never be wrong.

That's where I come in brother...making trolls wish they were never born...

I think these topics should be permitted so we and specifically our youth can learn about the different ways we are attacked and how to thwart those attacks.

[Anonymous2144]

1 hour ago, realizm said:

Actually the compulsory 'piece of cloth on the head' is quite a good limit. 

It implies a certain dress code which goes along with it.

There many Muslim countries that don’t require a hijab or any kind of cloth over a women’s head but they have limits within a women’s dress code. If Iran can do that but have limits to women’s Dress code then I’m sure every citizen would follow the law and know the consequences of going against it. 

[Mohammadi_follower]

11 minutes ago, Anonymous2144 said:

There many Muslim countries that don’t require a hijab or any kind of cloth over a women’s head but they have limits within a women’s dress code. If Iran can do that but have limits to women’s Dress code then I’m sure every citizen would follow the law and know the consequences of going against it. 

I think they don't do that mostly because they always have some influences culturally and juridically from old western colonisators.

[ali_fatheroforphans]

Rules are rules, if someone breaks the law then he should face the consequence. The OP clearly disrespected a grand ayatollah, and here we are still giving him freedom. It shouldn't be about "I wanna see how the Shiachat fam responds etc."

Either make the rules flexible, or ban him.

[Ahmed_516478]

There are legitimate criticisms that can be made against Sayyed Khomeini (e.g. wilayat al-faqih mutlaqa, islamism/sayyid qutb, sufism/ibn arabi, his handling of foreign policy and the Iran-Iraq war) but you aren't making any legitimate criticisms. You criticize enforcing the hijab even though it can be punished by ta'zir as its a sin. There are contradictions in the fiqhi akhbar so pointing out contradictions among modern pro-WF Iranian scholars is irrelevant. The rest is just cliches and platitudes, you need specific legitimate criticisms if you are going to criticize Iran and Khomeini.

[layman]

Salam to All,

During Muawiya and Yazid times, people used to curse Ali (AS).  Even when Imam Ali Zainul Abidin and women of Karbala were paraded in market in Syams, people curse them.

Why are these people cursing Ali (as) and family of Prophet (Saw), and killed Imam Hussain (as). 

It was because of ignorance, money, and disinformation from Muawiya and Yazid.  Imam  Ali was hated because he has killed  many Arabs who were related to high ranking Quraishi who liked to preserve jahilliyah ways of life.

So abdulhamid, I consider you similar to one of those ordinary people who lived under Muawiya and Yazid times that cursed Ali (AS)because of what they hear from majority of people who lived Syams that Ali (as) should be cursed.  Or better still a khawarij, who pray a lot, but failed to know Ali (as).

I am a Malaysian, and had been to Iran many times during early revolution, during war time and after war.  I paid oll my trips to Iran solely to find the truth.  I have talked to many Iranians whether they are Shias, Sunnis, Christians, rich and power.  Vast majority did not have same opinion like yours.  People in Iran voted to have an Islamic Republic and Imam Khomeini as their Supreme Leader.  So i rest my case.

And you, abdulhamid is an insult to Islam because you have made accusation to an Islamic Scholar that is respected by Millions in Iran and arround the world.

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

Salam Imam Khomeinei (ra) & Imam Khamenei (ha) 

never said that dress code & hijab must be a certain costume both of them say it must be only based on Islamic Sharia law no more no less

Imam Khomeini (ra) just said that women can work in ministries but they must not be naked same as Pahlavi Time ,they just must cover themselves with modest clothes & proper Hijab it is same as what Imam khamenei (ha) says now , but conservative groups make it a hard choice for people ironi of that is that the conservative people later stand against whole of Regim like as mr Ganji that did public apostasy & now is one of high ranking "BBC Farsi" advisors one another person is mr president Rohani that was advocate of conservative groups but now at least in word is against them.

https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/حجاب_اجباری_در_ایران

http://www.mozooazad.com/ShowFullArticle/496124865/چگونه-حجاب-در-ایران-اجباری-شد

https://www.tasnimnews.com/fa/news/1396/04/03/1445280/سیر-تصویب-قانون-حجاب-و-عفاف-در-ایران

[Urwatul Wuthqa]

17 hours ago, abdulhamid said:

Exactly the same but for the Sunnis. Thank you for raising this.

Your accusations reflecting the system of Saudi Arabia not the Islamic Republic of Iran. I would have not raised this point if your accusations were correct. 

16 hours ago, abdulhamid said:

I should hope so. And it will be positively held accountable, inshaAllah. I am a scholar myself, and neither is my station lower or higher than any others.

If you were a scholar you would have feared Allah (s.w.t) and not have used those words for a person who is the founder of Islamic Revolution. That revolution which came with the help and support of the people of Iran, it was not in any way forced upon them. Lets evaluate what type of scholar you're: 
 

18 hours ago, abdulhamid said:

Their compulsion of religion, e.g. hijab for women is specifically outlawed in the Holy Quran. They cling to power through murder and repeated human rights atrocities, again outlawed in the Holy Quran. The clerical class continue to enrich themselves while oppressing the people. Their books of fiqh are full of contradictions and much hypocrisy.

What is the meaning and scope of "compulsion" for you? 

Did they forced "Islam" on others? Did they forced people to accept Islam? 
Or did they made/enforced the laws for their society and asked people to live their lives in complete submission as mentioned in the following verses of Quran: 

"O you who believe! Enter into submission, kāffatan!"(2:208) 
"No believing man and no believing woman has a choice in their own affairs when Allāh and His Messenger have decided on an issue." (33:36)

 

Edited September 22, 2018 by Salsabeel

[Soldiers and Saffron]

2 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

That's where I come in brother...making trolls wish they were never born...

I think these topics should be permitted so we and specifically our youth can learn about the different ways we are attacked and how to thwart those attacks.

Yeah, its good if we show youth how to easily thwart those attacks but I cant really consider this an attack as its just accusations out of his own imagination and baseless claims, but it would be one thing to just have accusations and baseless claims but to also call marjaee thieves and hypocrites, thats stepping over the line in my opinion.

[abdulhamid]

3 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

I swear by Allah that by the time this discussion is over, I will prove you to be an anti-marja, anti-azadari fake-shia so you keep responding.

Fake Shia? I question politics and this is your conclusion? I would never ever ever have the boldness to swear by Allah, but I tell you what:

You'll still be trying and failing after ghiyamat.

Ya Ali