AUTHENTICITY of the way Abbas Ibn Ali (a.s) was killed

[MohammadAli1993]

SalamAlaykum brothers and sister 

May Allah accept our condolences for the Family of Muhammad pbuh 

Specially the Family of Imam Hussain (a.s)

I was reading a Book called 

The Event of Taff, The Earliest Historical Account of the Tragedy of Karbala by Abu Mikhnaf 

Apparently this is the earliest account of the Event of Karbala. 

Now here is the catch, there are two books with the same title (Maqtal Al Hussain) which are attributed to Abu Mikhnaf. The earliest one being more authentic than the later one. 

The later one has appeared out of nowhere and has additions in the event of Karbala and is rejected by our Scholars. 

In the book I was reading this under the Subtitle 'The Great Errors of this Maqtal' talking about the later version of the Maqtal of Abu Mikhnaf and it read this following from point 11

11. Again he is the only one to have repeated three times the report of the night and the day of ‘Ashura’. He mentions in the first the speech of al-Husayn (as) and the [martyrdom] of his brother, ‘Abbas (as)! He is alone in saying that: “… [‘Abbas] then held the sword with his mouth.” He then says: “[Al-Husayn] came to him and carried him on the back of his horse and took him to the tents. He put [his body] there and bitterly wept over him such that everyone present with him began weeping.”

---------------

Now in the earliest version of the same Maqtal it mentions this on page 147. Pdf version from Al-islam.org

......When [the foot soldiers from among the] companions of Nafi’ drew near him, he [told them]: “Fill your
waterskins!” So they forced their way and filled their waterskins.
[Seeing this] ‘Amru bin al-Hajjaj and his companions rushed towards them, but ‘Abbas bin ‘Ali and Nafi’
bin Hilal attacked them and stopped them [from reaching the foot soldiers]. Then both of them went to
the foot soldiers and told them: “[You] move [ahead]” while they were protecting them. [In the
meanwhile,] ‘Amru bin al-Hajjaj and his army came back and chased them for a while. The companions
of al-Husayn (as) managed to return to him with the waterskins.

According to Abu Mikhnaf Abbas Ibn Ali (a.s) did not die losing his arms when trying to get water from the river of Furat but actually during battle 

Under the subheading 'The Martyrdom of ‘Abbas bin ‘Ali (as) and His Brothers' 

‘Abbas bin ‘Ali (as) then said to his brothers on his mother’s side -‘Abdullah, Ja’far and ‘Uthman: “O
sons of my mother! Go forward [and fight] so that I may mourn over you; for you have no children [to
grieve over you]!
They did so [and went out and fought a severe battle until] they were killed. [May Allah have mercy on
them].11,12

My question would be, is the account where Abbas Ibn Ali (a.s) gets his arms cut off by the enemy authentic? And if yes, what is the source since the later version mentions this event but the first version which is the more authentic one. 

 

I would really appreciate your insight into this 

[Ashvazdanghe]

43 minutes ago, MohammadAli1993 said:

My question would be, is the account where Abbas Ibn Ali (a.s) gets his arms cut off by the enemy authentic? And if yes, what is the source since the later version mentions this event but the first version which is the more authentic one. 

Salam cutting his arms is authentic 

This site explain it in farsi the site is reliable  bit it doesn't mentioned reffernces

https://hawzah.net/fa/occation/view/48956/شهادت-حضرت-ابوالفضل-العباس-علیه-السلام

The deleted scenes of martyrdom of Hazrat Abbas from Mukhtarname series

Hazrat Abbas Martyrdom Karbala part 4 of 4

 

[Akbar673]

When you go to Karbala they have markers for where Hz. Abbas lost his arms. I’d like to believe that if he had not lost his arms then there wouldn’t be markers for where his arms were cut off.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong but why look for evidence in books and Maqtals when physical markers can answer your question. 

[MohammadAli1993]

7 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

When you go to Karbala they have markers for where Hz. Abbas lost his arms. I’d like to believe that if he had not lost his arms then there wouldn’t be markers for where his arms were cut off.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong but why look for evidence in books and Maqtals when physical markers can answer your question. 

Yes brother I have seen them myself. I wa thinking that as well but what I find confusing, it doesn't mention in the Maqtal of Imam Hussain. 

It says the opposite 

[realizm]

Allah knows best.

In some animations movies you even see Abbas (as) losing his arms from arrows strikes. Which is quite impossible...

 

[_nemo_]

I don't know about the maqtal but I have this (heard of this hadith on several occasions and got it from the Ahl al-Bayt Daily FB site, maybe you could ask the brother whose in charge of it or some other member on this site whose well versed in history. I also don't think his arms being cut off is a contested incident unlike some others we find in regards to the re-telling of this tragedy):

Imam Zayn al-`Abideen [a] said,

"May Allah have mercy on al-`Abbas b.` Ali [a], for he had chosen his brother over himself, and given and ransomed [himself for his brother], until his two hands were cut off. So, Allah replaced them for him with two wings by which he flies with the angels in Paradise, just as He made for Ja`far b. Abi Talib. Surely, al-`Abbas has a station with Allah تبارك وتعالى which all the martyrs on the Day of the Resurrection shall envy of him."

أحمد بن زياد بن جعفر الهمداني عن علي بن إبراهيم بن هاشم، عن محمد بن عيسى بن عبيد، عن يونس بن عبد الرحمن، عن ابن أسباط، عن علي بن سالم، عن أبيه، عن ثابت بن أبي صفية قال: قال علي بن - الحسين عليهما السلام: رحم الله العباس يعني ابن علي فلقد آثر وأبلى وفدى أخاه بنفسه حتى قطعت يداه فأبدله الله بهما جناحين يطير بهما مع الملائكة في الجنة كما جعل لجعفر بن أبي طالب، وإن للعباس عند الله تبارك وتعالى لمنزلة يغبطه بها جميع الشهداء يوم القيامة.

(al-Khisal)

[MohammadAli1993]

5 hours ago, realizm said:

Allah knows best.

In some animations movies you even see Abbas (as) losing his arms from arrows strikes. Which is quite impossible...

 

It is actually important for me to find out the truth about his (a.s) death. 

If someone can shed light on this topic. It would be very helpful

[MohammadAli1993]

Anyone

[Ashvazdanghe]

Amali , Saduq p 547

https://razavi.aqr.ir/portal/home/?news/102238/671280/1039627/حضرت-عباس-چگونه-مشک-را-از-دستی-که-قطع-شده-می-گیرد؟-آیا-حضرت-از-اسب-پیاده-شده-و-می-رود-مشک-را-که-همراه-دست-قطع-شده-اش-روی-زمین-افتاده-بر-می-دارد-و-دوباره-سوار-اسب-می-شود-و-می-رود؟-دوباره-که-آن-یکی-دستش-قطع-می-شود-چه-کار-می-کند؟

وَاللَّهِ إنْ قَطَعْتُمُ یَمینی / إِنِّی أُحامِی أَبَداً عَنْ دینِی‏

وَ عَنْ إِمامٍ صادِقِ الْیَقینِ / نَجْلِ الْنَّبِیِّ الطَّاهِرِ الْأَمینِ‏
 

Swear to God! Although You cutter my right hand, but I constantly support my religion and I support the  Imam with true faith, the son of the Prophet.Then "Nawfal-Arzaq" and "Hakim ibn Tafil" attacked Hazrat Imam Khomeini and separated his left hand from the body. He tied the flag to his chest and read this paean:

یا نَفْسُ لا تَخْشَ مِنَ الْکُفَّارِ / وَأَبْشِری‏ بِرَحْمَةِ الْجَبَّارِ

مَعَ النَّبِیِّ السَّیِّدِ الُمخْتارِ / قَدْ قَطَعُوا بِبَغْیِهِمْ یَسارِی‏

فَأَصْلِهِمْ یا رَبِّ حَرَّ النَّار
 

O breath! Do not be afraid of the infidels, bless you with the mercy of the Compassionate God, and stay with the great Prophet. They cut off my left hand to oppressor, God give them the heat of the fire. (3)Then he took the musk to the teeth, and there was a moment when a beetle hit the musk and its waters collapsed.Another shot struck the chest of Mubarak, and some wrote, Thiry sat on his face, and a man from the Tamim tribe with an iron perpendicular to the blessed Shiite who fell from the horse. "Vndadhi bahali al-Sath: shouting or one," he shouted with a loud voice: "Look at my brother."When Imam Hussein (peace be upon him) arrived on his balcony, he became a martyr, he cried.It has also been quoted as saying: "When Abbas  (as) was martyred," Imam Hussein (peace be upon him) said:  Now My back cracked and my way is limited to me. (4)

(3). مناقب ابن شهر آشوب، ج 4 ص 117 و بحارالانوار، ج 45 ص 40.

Manaqib Ibn Shahr Ashub , v4 p117, Bihar ‘al ‘anwar v45 p40

(4). مناقب ابن شهر آشوب، ج 4 ص 117 ؛ بحارالانوار، ج 45 ص 40 ؛ عاشورا ریشه‌ها، انگیزه‌ها، رویدادها، پیامدها، ص 493.

Manaqib Ibn Shahr Ashub , v4 p117, Bihar ‘al ‘anwar v45 p40 ,Ashura ,roots , motivations ,incidents ,comsequences ,p493

http://www.askdin.com/showthread.php?t=31939

 

http://www.pasokhgoo.ir/node/55827

http://wiki.ahlolbait.com/محل_قطع_شدن_دست_چپ_حضرت_عباس_علیه‌السلام

 

مقام حضرت عباس در اروپا (mount Tomorrow in southern of Albania)

Position of Hazrat Abbas in Europe 

 I

[Ron_Burgundy]

19 hours ago, MohammadAli1993 said:

SalamAlaykum brothers and sister 

May Allah accept our condolences for the Family of Muhammad pbuh 

Specially the Family of Imam Hussain (a.s)

I was reading a Book called 

The Event of Taff, The Earliest Historical Account of the Tragedy of Karbala by Abu Mikhnaf 

Apparently this is the earliest account of the Event of Karbala. 

Now here is the catch, there are two books with the same title (Maqtal Al Hussain) which are attributed to Abu Mikhnaf. The earliest one being more authentic than the later one. 

The later one has appeared out of nowhere and has additions in the event of Karbala and is rejected by our Scholars. 

In the book I was reading this under the Subtitle 'The Great Errors of this Maqtal' talking about the later version of the Maqtal of Abu Mikhnaf and it read this following from point 11

11. Again he is the only one to have repeated three times the report of the night and the day of ‘Ashura’. He mentions in the first the speech of al-Husayn (as) and the [martyrdom] of his brother, ‘Abbas (as)! He is alone in saying that: “… [‘Abbas] then held the sword with his mouth.” He then says: “[Al-Husayn] came to him and carried him on the back of his horse and took him to the tents. He put [his body] there and bitterly wept over him such that everyone present with him began weeping.”

---------------

Now in the earliest version of the same Maqtal it mentions this on page 147. Pdf version from Al-islam.org

......When [the foot soldiers from among the] companions of Nafi’ drew near him, he [told them]: “Fill your
waterskins!” So they forced their way and filled their waterskins.
[Seeing this] ‘Amru bin al-Hajjaj and his companions rushed towards them, but ‘Abbas bin ‘Ali and Nafi’
bin Hilal attacked them and stopped them [from reaching the foot soldiers]. Then both of them went to
the foot soldiers and told them: “[You] move [ahead]” while they were protecting them. [In the
meanwhile,] ‘Amru bin al-Hajjaj and his army came back and chased them for a while. The companions
of al-Husayn (as) managed to return to him with the waterskins.

According to Abu Mikhnaf Abbas Ibn Ali (a.s) did not die losing his arms when trying to get water from the river of Furat but actually during battle 

Under the subheading 'The Martyrdom of ‘Abbas bin ‘Ali (as) and His Brothers' 

‘Abbas bin ‘Ali (as) then said to his brothers on his mother’s side -‘Abdullah, Ja’far and ‘Uthman: “O
sons of my mother! Go forward [and fight] so that I may mourn over you; for you have no children [to
grieve over you]!
They did so [and went out and fought a severe battle until] they were killed. [May Allah have mercy on
them].11,12

My question would be, is the account where Abbas Ibn Ali (a.s) gets his arms cut off by the enemy authentic? And if yes, what is the source since the later version mentions this event but the first version which is the more authentic one. 

 

I would really appreciate your insight into this 

You cannot understand Karbala through history. it happened 1400 years ago in a desert where yazid's army was in 1000s, and follower of Imam Hussain (a.s) were around 80. Most of the history writers were not even present in karbala and those who were there would have never written accurate history. Also, it doesn't matter if the arms were cut off or not. It doesn't change anything. Imagine a person writing a story of karbara during ummayad's, do you think he could have written an correct version? 

[Zulfiqar1472]

12 minutes ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

You cannot understand Karbala through history. it happened 1400 years ago in a desert where yazid's army was in 1000s, and follower of Imam Hussain (a.s) were around 80. Most of the history writers were not even present in karbala and those who were there would have never written accurate history. Also, it doesn't matter if the arms were cut off or not. It doesn't change anything. Imagine a person writing a story of karbara during ummayad's, do you think he could have written an correct version? 

We will get this from Hazrat Imam Zain ul Abadeen A.S.

There was one historician who was journalist from Yazeed Lanat ullah and written the history to appease Yazeed Mulyun but that can be considered as news not as accurate events.

Coming back to the topic I have seen that place where Mola Abbas A.S shoulders were cut of.

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

4 minutes ago, Zulfiqar1472 said:

We will get this from Hazrat Imam Zain ul Abadeen A.S.

There was one historician who was journalist from Yazeed Lanat ullah and written the history to appease Yazeed Mulyun but that can be considered as news not as accurate events.

Coming back to the topic I have seen that place where Mola Abbas A.S shoulders were cut of.

 

Do we have any book by 4th Imam? 

[Ashvazdanghe]

1 hour ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Do we have any book by 4th Imam? 

The most famous book is Sahifa Sajjadiah but because of heavy surveillance of Ummayid(la) & then Abasyds  the history book from shia side is very rare ,Abu mukhnaf also highly criticized from Sunni narrators & they weaken his narrations through him.

[ShiaMan14]

13 hours ago, MohammadAli1993 said:

It is actually important for me to find out the truth about his (a.s) death. 

If someone can shed light on this topic. It would be very helpful

For me, this is the most authentic book:

https://www.al-islam.org/nafasul-mahmum-relating-heart-rending-tragedy-karbala-shaykh-abbas-qummi/combat-members-imam-husayn#relating-martyrdom-our-master-abbas-bin-ali-bin-abi-talib

[Sirius_Bright]

13 hours ago, _nemo_ said:

Imam Zayn al-`Abideen [a] said,

"May Allah have mercy on al-`Abbas b.` Ali [a], for he had chosen his brother over himself, and given and ransomed [himself for his brother], until his two hands were cut off. So, Allah replaced them for him with two wings by which he flies with the angels in Paradise, just as He made for Ja`far b. Abi Talib. Surely, al-`Abbas has a station with Allah تبارك وتعالى which all the martyrs on the Day of the Resurrection shall envy of him."

أحمد بن زياد بن جعفر الهمداني عن علي بن إبراهيم بن هاشم، عن محمد بن عيسى بن عبيد، عن يونس بن عبد الرحمن، عن ابن أسباط، عن علي بن سالم، عن أبيه، عن ثابت بن أبي صفية قال: قال علي بن - الحسين عليهما السلام: رحم الله العباس يعني ابن علي فلقد آثر وأبلى وفدى أخاه بنفسه حتى قطعت يداه فأبدله الله بهما جناحين يطير بهما مع الملائكة في الجنة كما جعل لجعفر بن أبي طالب، وإن للعباس عند الله تبارك وتعالى لمنزلة يغبطه بها جميع الشهداء يوم القيامة.

(al-Khisal)

This Hadith should answer your query @MohammadAli1993

[MohammadAli1993]

1 hour ago, Sirius_Bright said:

This Hadith should answer your query @MohammadAli1993

May Allah bless you brother. 

[Sirius_Bright]

1 hour ago, MohammadAli1993 said:

May Allah bless you brother. 

Credits to brother @_nemo_.