Jump to content

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, 786:) said:

Sign me up! Lol I think the fact that they were the original Shias is highly overlooked.

And the best part is Sunnis can't say zaidi are not a valid Madhab and 12er can't say we are not Shia. It's the most simple, pure and rational interpretation of Islam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Warilla said:

And the best part is Sunnis can't say zaidi are not a valid Madhab and 12er can't say we are not Shia. It's the most simple, pure and rational interpretation of Islam.

I’m not sure the latter is true. Most 12ers don’t even consider Ismaili to be Muslim—much less Shia. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question is if zaydis are closest to the original Shias why did imami Shias or rafidah if you may and 12er Shias become majority?

What were the factors that caused this?

Also the proto Sunnis of Iraq who preferred Ali and hated Uthman yet considered first 2 caliphs legitimate and pious what happened to them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what you understand, who is the Imam of your time @Warilla ?

Don't they have a continuous line of imamate to this day, like Ismailis? I read there was an actual imamate in Yemen uo until the 60s.

What do Zaidis say or believe about the Mahdi? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Question is if zaydis are closest to the original Shias why did imami Shias or rafidah if you may and 12er Shias become majority?

What were the factors that caused this?

Also the proto Sunnis of Iraq who preferred Ali and hated Uthman yet considered first 2 caliphs legitimate and pious what happened to them?

I think that a multifaceted reason dependant on geography, military action, politics  etc beyond my knowledge and capabilities. An answer would require some who is well versed in history to research it. The answer would also vary depending on intitial bias.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

From what you understand, who is the Imam of your time @Warilla ?

Much the same as Sunnis there isn't one. 

I think ismalis are the only group to have a current and openly present Imam.

As for Imam Mahdi my understanding that he will be from the Ahlul Bayt and among the first to enter paradise. 

Edited by Warilla

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, 786:) said:

I’m not sure the latter is true. Most 12ers don’t even consider Ismaili to be Muslim—much less Shia. 

Ismaili are very different to Sunni,zaidi and 12er. I'm not sure if they are excepted by Muslims as Muslim. I did a quick Google search and found this. 

https://ask.ismailignosis.com/article/45-why-do-ismailis-pray-dua-instead-of-namaz-like-many-other-Muslims

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Don't they have a continuous line of imamate to this day, like Ismailis? I read there was an actual imamate in Yemen uo until the 60s

The last accepted Imam was from 250 AH 

There have been Yemeni rulers till 1960s but they have not been accepted unanimously as Imam.

 zaidis only have a concept of divinely appointed infallible Imam only up to Imam Hussein. Any Imam after that is not infallible and therefore complete obedience is not required.

I treat the early zaidi Imams as sources of knowledge eg fiqh and transmitters of hadith from the infallible.

Other than that I'm not to concerned. If a leader from Ahlul Bayt arises in my lifetime I will use my aql and opinion from the masses and scholars on deciding if I need to follow or not. 

Edited by Warilla

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Warilla said:

Much the same as Sunnis there isn't one. 

I think ismalis are the only group to have a current and openly present Imam.

Would it not concern you based on the shared Sunni/Shii narration of one dying without recognising Imam of the time?

The ambiguity of the Imam being anyone as long as they are from the Hasnain line means there is room for further sub divisions within Zaidism surely?

As I mentioned to you in another thread I have found it quite difficult to come across Zaidi literature or websites. Like I don't know of any organisations or mosques, at least in the West.

I know a lot is due to ignorance on my part, but they seem steeped in secrecy and mystery like Yazidis lol. I just about found out how they prayed due to that link you sent me.

Like where are their Azhar, Qom and Najaf equivalents? Main ahadith books or who are their main contemporary ulema?

Sorry for all the questions but you're our resident Zaidi 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Would it not concern you based on the shared Sunni/Shii narration of one dying without recognising Imam of the time?

A) As far as I know zaidi don't accept this as authentic.

Also even if it was then Imam has a general an specific meaning, so I'm sure there are varied interpretations

On a personal note, belief in any ONE thing that can determine if you enter paradise or not must be usool din and therefore I would require clear and unquestionably evidence to accept it.

I'm comfortable in knowing if I follow my fundamentals enjoy good and refrain from haram there will be mercy on my short comings. insha'Allah

2 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

The ambiguity of the Imam being anyone as long as they are from the Hasnain line means there is room for further sub divisions within Zaidism surely ?

Sure but the fundamentals of zaidi Madhab can't be altered regardless of disputes as the Imam is not infallible. Any division/opinions would be accepted (agree to disagree) just as they have been in the past.

2 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

I don't know of any organisations or mosques, at least in the West.

but they seem steeped in secrecy and mystery like Yazidis lol.  

You won't find any most likely as zaidi don't have specific centers eg imambargah and since they fit easily with Sunni going to Sunni run mosques is the norm. We don't seperate ourselves from the ummah.

The mystery is due to being a small number, geography and the fact that we are so similar to Sunni we assimilate into the general population.

Edited by Warilla

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Like where are their Azhar, Qom and Najaf equivalents? Main ahadith books or who are their main contemporary ulema?

I'll get back to you on this one. Will require I bit of research on my part.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/4/2018 at 10:05 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam in general about first  three Imam (عليه السلام) we have same opinion but about forth Imam (عليه السلام) Zaidis say that Imam must be from their progeny but he must rise against tyrant ruler without Taqiya with sword or any weapon & they follow Shafii school of taught for applying rules.

The Zaidi Shi'ites have their own fiqh and their own traditions and ahaadith sources, all claimed to be from the Itra (عليه السلام).

I guess the idea that they are following Shafi'I fiqh is because Yemen consists 65% procent of Shafi'I Sunnites and because their fiqh has many simmilarities with the 4 Sunni madahib.

Another thing is that Zaidi's believe that after the three Imams (عليه السلام) every descendant of BOTH Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) AND Imam Hassan (عليه السلام) can become the Imam according to fixed conditions ofcourse. 

There is also no belief in a fixed number of Imams like Twelvers have.

However they also believe in Imam al-Mahdi not being born yet but reject the belief in the second coming of Isa (عليه السلام) which is an Isra'iliyyat tradition according to them.

Edited by Faruk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is also very typical is that they are allowed to pray behind Sunni's as long they do not have antropomorphic beliefs or wiped their socks instead of the feet.

They do believe the tradition of wiping (leather) socks was abrogated by Qur'an 5:6.

Edited by Faruk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, 786:) said:

So you want to prove from 12er books about Zayd's imamate? I am not that well versed in hadith literature to be quite honest with you. However, I do not see the purpose of this request as its a lose-lose scenario for me:

1) No hadith exists to support that in 12er literature
2) Hadith exists-->you claim no 12er hadith book is 100% sahih therefore you dismiss the hadith

Thanks for acceptance

1. No verse in Qur'an supporting the man made caliphs., Imam or. successor of the Prophet or Imam. They are all chosen by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) alone.

2. No haidht as  evidence from Shia sources that Zayd bin Ali claimed Immamat

3. I have provided the hadith for acceptance of Imam Sadiq AS as Imam of Zayd bin Ali. These are sufficient to reject the claim of Zaidis for immamt  of Zayd bin Ali.

wasalam

Edited by skyweb1987

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/12/2019 at 9:59 AM, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Like where are their Azhar, Qom and Najaf equivalents? Main ahadith books or who are their main contemporary ulema?

These are early hadith literature :

Musnad Imam Zaid 
Amalia Ahmed bin Isa

I have PDFS in Arabic

http://www.*******.org/ part translation at this link. Strangely the early Sunni Hadith have been removed.

As for contemporary scholars they are based in Yemen and I think there is a hawza in Saudi 

I don't have any names of specific contemporary scholars.

As I'm following the Madhab through classic literature and asking questions to zaidi foundations based in the US.

 

 

Edited by Warilla

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 786:) said:

^He is going to say not all hadith in our books are authentic.

Are you a Zaidi and if not what exactly?

Just curious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Faruk said:

Are you a Zaidi and if not what exactly?

Just curious.

How do you doubt about it? Are All his posts not defending the Zaidys thought?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...