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Hijabi Muslim becomes first Miss England Finalist

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3 hours ago, wmehar2 said:

If Qur'an said something contradicting, like to start killing innocents would you do it?

If Sistani said, to start fasting as if it was compulsory on Mondays, even though there is no basis in the Qu'ran for it, would you do it?  This is the point trying to make. I'm not saying he IS deviant, I'm saying have you done due diligence in assessing this man's capacity for truth?

or is there just too much we don't know about him and his private life,  but.. we Just have to take his word for it?

Does he just say things that are agreeable to you, so you just go with it? If that is the case, could you really call yourself a follower of Allahs message, discredit your own capacity to read and understand Gods message?

How do I know you're not following Deen ul Sistani and not Deen ul Islam?  What separates the two? 

Hard as this is, I'm trying to invoke you to be self questioning and to critically look inside yourself here.

 

So Did Seestani RA claim to be the for bearer of any other religion or telling us about Islam and obviously Prophet SAW will not come to help you out for daily affairs. But you being deviated from Islam make sense as you must have heard and listen to the stories of those scared ones who might had had later killed and looted the Prophet family. Sorry to say brother; the people like you end up having either sword or axe in one hand and butchering the people or end up being atheist. you are not alone.Obviously if you listen to him your faith on Islam will go in days.

Obviously looking at these people and their fatwas and having a lot doubts around shia teaching.. you are left with only one options being athiest. Please enjoy the video.

 

 

   

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4 minutes ago, Zulfiqar1472 said:

So Did Seestani RA claim to be the for bearer of any other religion or telling us about Islam and obviously Prophet SAW will not come to help you out for daily affairs. But you being deviated from Islam make sense as you must have heard and listen to the stories of those scared ones who might had had later killed and looted the Prophet family. Sorry to say brother; the people like you end up having either sword or axe in one hand and butchering the people or end up being atheist. you are not alone.Obviously if you listen to him your faith on Islam will go in days.

Obviously looking at these people and their fatwas and having a lot doubts around shia teaching.. you are left with only one options being athiest. Please enjoy the video.

 

 

   

What?

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3 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

That's very interesting. I'll check out the video. If you're right, then there's no point of this thread because she's not hijabi anyway. 

 Edit- she was wearing a headcovering, i.e the turban. To be honest it's just a let down that she couldn't get to the finals without having to expose that much of her hair and skin and moulding herself into western beauty standards. But then again, I don't know her intention, but the impression it gives off isn't a great one.

Keep watching, she takes the cap off and lets her hair flow to show off her makeup, not sure how the two are relevant.

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3 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

I’ll ask you something: why can’t men do their part and take responsibility for gazing lustfully? Doesn’t the Quran instruct men to lower their gaze first, since I know that Islam doesn’t place all blame on the women for when men can’t control themselves. In fact, you are essentially saying that men can’t control themselves at all, even at a woman’s face.

 

3 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Like I said, Allah doesn’t instruct a woman to conceal her face, so if a man gazes lustfully at her face, well, that’s on him, bruh. 

Sis, I know and agree with this, but I don't know if you're ignoring my point on purpose.

If a woman joins an event designed to have men look at the face lustfully, that's not just on him because she doesn't HAVE to join such an immodest event.

It's different if she is minding her business taking a walk down the street or going to the grocery store or working or whatever, of course that would be on the man entirely if she is observing proper hijab.

Please let us stop misconstruing each other's narratives. I take my leave =).

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6 minutes ago, dragonxx said:

Keep watching, she takes the cap off and lets her hair flow to show off her makeup, not sure how the two are relevant.

Lol I think that's someone else. Because she was talking about her passion for makeup, and the girl with the wavy hair who appears at the end of the video looks very different. 

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Just now, 2Timeless said:

Lol I think that's someone else. Because she was talking about her passion for makeup, and the girl with the wavy hair who appears at the end of the video looks very different. 

Lool that's what I thought at first, but the title of video plus her saying "I hope you enjoy my makeover, keep on watching" indicates that really is her, just that the heavy makeup and hairdo made her look diff (her eye colour is still the same).

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2 minutes ago, dragonxx said:

Lool that's what I thought at first, but the title of video plus her saying "I hope you enjoy my makeover, keep on watching" indicates that really is her, just that the heavy makeup and hairdo made her look diff (her eye colour is still the same).

Lol I thought that she's a makeup artist and meant that she gave the other girl a makeover. Their eyebrows look different. Lol I'm so lost. 

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51 minutes ago, dragonxx said:

Lool that's what I thought at first, but the title of video plus her saying "I hope you enjoy my makeover, keep on watching" indicates that really is her, just that the heavy makeup and hairdo made her look diff (her eye colour is still the same).

Its not her. You can verify in her Instagram site. (The article provides her Instagram link)

Edited by Abu Nur

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16 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

 Its not her. You can verify in her Instagram site. (The article provides her Instagram link)

Then I stand corrected in this regard, thank you.

I stand by what I said otherwise, it's still apparent even without the video.

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1 minute ago, dragonxx said:

I am being logical. I don't believe I made an assumption.

I'd disagree, we don't know this woman, so what we said about her is assumptions. Anyone can twist a story on media to support an agenda. 

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28 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I'd disagree, we don't know this woman, so what we said about her is assumptions. Anyone can twist a story on media to support an agenda. 

Yes, I'm aware news always contains half-truths if not full-on lies, but there is no twisting necessary in this single aspect.

1000s of women on this planet wear a cap like the one she is wearing for example, both muslim and non-muslim. If you go to the middle-east, you will see 100s of women on the streets wearing a "sheila", and when you ask them they will say they are not wearing "hijab", they are just wearing a "sheila" (headscarf). Why would a media outlet look at a style like hers and label it hijab when it has NO resemblance at all? There is literally no other logical conclusion than she herself identified as hijabi. You don't look at a normally-dressed person and call them a policewoman unless they identify as such. What is so difficult and/or antagonizing about this logic? What is there about this to twist and what agenda does it fulfill?

We don't need to know the woman as a person, just like we don't need to know a police officer personally to believe they are police when they state they're a police officer and wave their badge. It is clear what she herself has put forth and what she is proud about.

It's common sense really.

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50 minutes ago, dragonxx said:

Why would a media outlet look at a style like hers and label it hijab when it has NO resemblance at all?

... I'm sorry but I can't help myself...

Out of ignorance perhaps ?  Especially if it's western people writing it, I mean sheesh that happens literally every day . 

What they think is "shariah" or a ritual that has nothing to do with us....whther that's an agenda or not they misappropriate terminology common to us muslims.

I don't know your background but being born here and raised in the US, I honestly expect the news to misrepresent nearly EVERYTHING out of ignorance. Not just Islamic terms.

It's not crazy to think perhaps we should ask the girl first if she really is a self identified hijabi, and if so does she have beliefs that differ in how it's worn?

I hope you aren't as sure as you were seeing her in a picture of her with no hijab on...When it wasn't actually her... That was a bad assumption eh?

Edited by wmehar2

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16 hours ago, wmehar2 said:

... I'm sorry but I can't help myself...

Out of ignorance perhaps ?  Especially if it's western people writing it, I mean sheesh that happens literally every day . 

 What they think is "shariah" or a ritual that has nothing to do with us....whther that's an agenda or not they misappropriate terminology common to us muslims.

 I don't know your background but being born here and raised in the US, I honestly expect the news to misrepresent nearly EVERYTHING out of ignorance. Not just Islamic terms.

 It's not crazy to think perhaps we should ask the girl first if she really is a self identified hijabi, and if so does she have beliefs that differ in how it's worn?

 I hope you aren't as sure as you were seeing her in a picture of her with no hijab on...When it wasn't actually her... That was a bad assumption eh?

Well she did say "my makeover" and she looked pretty similar, not really an assumption but rather it was misleading.

You seem very fixated on the one picture/article of her on dailymail being the reason I believe she self-identified as such.

Just read her quoted comments to the media, make a 1-minute google search, read a couple of articles, and hopefully you will come to realize why I think it is common sense - she is definitely very proud of it to say the least. She has entire media pages bragging about it lol, why persist with the SJW mentality?

Besides, being born and raised in the West, one thing I know for sure is their agenda would be fulfilled if they did the opposite (by NOT mentioning she is hijabi).

Edit:

Here you go, a few quotes, let us hope the SJW comments stop:

"If I want to cover myself up and dress modestly why should that be an issue? I am just like the other contestants. 

"If I am sending out that message it will motivate other people to participate in a beauty contest."

"At the end of the day, I may be the first woman to wear a hijab [at the Miss England final]. However, I am just a regular girl and we all have a fair opportunity in this contest."

 

Edited by dragonxx
^

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45 minutes ago, dragonxx said:

Well she did say "my makeover" and she looked pretty similar, not really an assumption but rather it was misleading.

You seem very fixated on the one picture/article of her on dailymail being the reason I believe she self-identified as such.

Just read her quoted comments to the media, make a 1-minute google search, read a couple of articles, and hopefully you will come to realize why I think it is common sense - she is definitely very proud of it to say the least. She has entire media pages bragging about it lol, why persist with the SJW mentality?

Besides, being born and raised in the West, one thing I know for sure is their agenda would be fulfilled if they did the opposite (by NOT mentioning she is hijabi).

Edit:

Here you go, a few quotes, let us hope the SJW comments stop:

"If I want to cover myself up and dress modestly why should that be an issue? I am just like the other contestants. 

"If I am sending out that message it will motivate other people to participate in a beauty contest."

"At the end of the day, I may be the first woman to wear a hijab [at the Miss England final]. However, I am just a regular girl and we all have a fair opportunity in this contest."

 

My wife even thought what she was wearing was hijab.   A needles difference seems to be too vast of a material difference in the parameters defining hijab.

I guess not everyone knows how to differentiate.   Sounds like we need to do a deep dive on what the acceptable "hijab" formats are.

Every sunni sheikh, shia marj3a, hadith's definition for analysis.

I'm not gonna accept "well we shia do things the right way because we're the true religion" or "we sunnis believe we have the right hijab because we're the true religion" nonsense.

If there's consensus, against my better judgment of what a hijab constitutes, I'll stand corrected.

Edited by wmehar2

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4 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

 I'm not gonna accept "well we shia do things the right way because we're the true religion" or "we sunnis believe we have the right hijab because we're the true religion" nonsense.

 

I respect that, you should never reach conclusions based off that.

Honestly, there is one definite consensus in regards to physical hijab - it should conceal physical beauty. To what extent? that is up for debate I suppose across schools as you've said, however the underlying aforementioned principle is set and stone across every muslim on the planet. Meaning bottom-line, the law student is certainly contradicting this principle by claiming "hijab" and participating in that which contains a criteria where a woman is judged on her physical beauty.

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1 hour ago, dragonxx said:

I respect that, you should never reach conclusions based off that.

Honestly, there is one definite consensus in regards to physical hijab - it should conceal physical beauty. To what extent? that is up for debate I suppose across schools as you've said, however the underlying aforementioned principle is set and stone across every muslim on the planet. Meaning bottom-line, the law student is certainly contradicting this principle by claiming "hijab" and participating in that which contains a criteria where a woman is judged on her physical beauty.

And that immediately should be equated with her promoting fasad?

She doesn't violate physical requirements as they vary,  but the principle?

Perhaps analogous to Someone wearing tight fitting  clothing but still revealing curves and beauty,  which still technically covers,  yet violates the principle ?

If one is extremely beautiful despite wearing proper hijab is she required to upgrade to full on niqab?

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27 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

And that immediately should be equated with her promoting fasad?

Maybe not for you, I was simply making a conclusion that even you would have to admit to. My view is much more than simply just that as per my previous posts. Besides, she stated herself as above 

2 hours ago, dragonxx said:

"If I am sending out that message it will motivate other people to participate in a beauty contest."

Is this not spreading a message of "have pride in how you look and show it off to people", I wonder how the many ways people will interpret this across the world lol.

29 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

 She doesn't violate physical requirements as they vary,  but the principle?

Perhaps for you they vary, I acknowledge and respect your view, but my view is set and stone and she violates far more than just principle for me.

30 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

 If one is extremely beautiful despite wearing proper hijab is she required to upgrade to full on niqab?

Ironically, a posted in another thread just earlier today, I've heard growing up that if a woman is so beautiful that she attracts lustful looks everywhere she goes just from her face, she should wear niqab (although the only place on this planet this MIGHT apply is an insanely attractive woman living in Saudi, i.e. I don't think it applies in this day and age due to social norms and exposure to veil-less/nude women). I asked for a reference and hopefully someone can find a reference for this rule, because it is admittedly something I heard. However, it does make sense.

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Quote

"If I want to cover myself up and dress modestly why should that be an issue? I am just like the other contestants. 

"If I am sending out that message it will motivate other people to participate in a beauty contest."

"At the end of the day, I may be the first woman to wear a hijab [at the Miss England final]. However, I am just a regular girl and we all have a fair opportunity in this contest."

“That abode of the Hereafter, we assign it for those who do not intend to exalt themselves in the earth nor (to make) mischief and the good end is for the pious ones.” Quran 28:83

Then he (asws) recited His (azwj) Words: That is the House of the Hereafter [28:83] – the Verse, and went on to cry, and he was saying: ‘By Allah (azwj)! My aspirations are gone, with this Verse’. Then he (asws) said: ‘By Allah (azwj)! The righteous have succeeded. Do you know who they are? They are the ones who are not harming even a particle. The fear of Allah (azwj) suffices knowledge, and delusion suffices the ignorance.
---

A good reminder for all of us.

Edited by Abu Nur

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2 hours ago, wmehar2 said:

And that immediately should be equated with her promoting fasad?

She doesn't violate physical requirements as they vary,  but the principle?

Perhaps analogous to Someone wearing tight fitting  clothing but still revealing curves and beauty,  which still technically covers,  yet violates the principle ?

If one is extremely beautiful despite wearing proper hijab is she required to upgrade to full on niqab?

One is not forced to become a "hijabi". There is no compulsion in religion there is Quranic evidence to back that up. If one does not want to wear hijab their choice. As for equating to fasad-- yes of course. There are so called Muslims causing trouble around the world because they call themselves Muslims-- even though any rational person would not think of them to be Muslim. Fasad or corruption in English terms can be something really simple or huge, because simple issues rise to larger issues-- that is overall the concept of corruption. There are actually you tube videos online where people pretend they are hijabis and people legitimately believe them--who do haram acts which I will not discuss. Now you may say a beauty pageant is not haram well I can say participating in music videos is not haram too then.

You see that's how corruption starts. 

 

I am actually surprised this topic/ discussion is still continued. 

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58 minutes ago, Futuremedstudent said:

One is not forced to become a "hijabi". There is no compulsion in religion there is Quranic evidence to back that up. If one does not want to wear hijab their choice. As for equating to fasad-- yes of course. There are so called Muslims causing trouble around the world because they call themselves Muslims-- even though any rational person would not think of them to be Muslim. Fasad or corruption in English terms can be something really simple or huge, because simple issues rise to larger issues-- that is overall the concept of corruption. There are actually you tube videos online where people pretend they are hijabis and people legitimately believe them--who do haram acts which I will not discuss. Now you may say a beauty pageant is not haram well I can say participating in music videos is not haram too then.

You see that's how corruption starts. 

 

I am actually surprised this topic/ discussion is still continued. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is. I don't think this girl is saying this is the way hikab should be worn, and I represent all Muslims, everyone follow what I do.  She is still a Muslim, not  a fake pretend one. 

@dragonxx feels there's a compelling enough argument / evidence  to say otherwise with regard to her promoting fasad (not regarding her being or not being Muslim). 

But really I'm just trying to rationalize and digest the discussion and come to a conclusion. 

And now I think I can see why I have such a problem with all of this here, because I kind of believe no one really knows the real truth ..But here you all follow a set of beliefs. But because you are that certain of what you believe in to the point where you kind of assert what you think is right because you  believe a hundred percent that it's right,.. hence you call it promoting fasad  in what this girl is doing.

Whereas confused me, is sayin anything anybody says right or wrong 100% definitively is promoting facade cuz i beleive no one really knows anything... 

 So telling people the proper way to wear hijab in my book is promoting fasad I guess, which or course for your  reasons will disagree with And that's cool . 

 

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3 hours ago, dragonxx said:

Is this not spreading a message of "have pride in how you look and show it off to people", I wonder how the many ways people will interpret this across the world lol

I mean @Islandsandmirrorss point was beauty extends beyond physical and she believe the girl is saying there should be beauty pageants that go beyond the physical and that should encourage women to participate.

I happen to agree with her, mostly.

If you were accustomed to these beauty pageants  (which I don't expect us to be, since mostly women are),  participating while wearing and covering most of the hair and body is practical suicide in terms of dampening their chances to win or even noticed. Typically, beurocracy and politics play into these events and then the woman or contestant with not the best merits wins or is recognized.   If anything,  anti-Muslim forces would suppress this girl and not even give her the light of day of recognition.

Most white and non eastern cultured people  will only see the message "this girl doesn't want to win based on looks"  "this girl has something to say"

Which makes sense why the girl never dreamed of being a finalist,  it seemed she knew her attempt at making her message was doomed to fail because of her look.

She compromised the "real hijab" (whether intentionally or unintentionally) to probably give herself as much as an edge to get recognized which is where I can see your point of contention.

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2 hours ago, wmehar2 said:

I guess what I'm trying to say is. I don't think this girl is saying this is the way hikab should be worn, and I represent all Muslims, everyone follow what I do.  She is still a Muslim, not  a fake pretend one. 

@dragonxx feels there's a compelling enough argument / evidence  to say otherwise with regard to her promoting fasad (not regarding her being or not being Muslim). 

But really I'm just trying to rationalize and digest the discussion and come to a conclusion. 

And now I think I can see why I have such a problem with all of this here, because I kind of believe no one really knows the real truth ..But here you all follow a set of beliefs. But because you are that certain of what you believe in to the point where you kind of assert what you think is right because you  believe a hundred percent that it's right,.. hence you call it promoting fasad  in what this girl is doing.

Whereas confused me, is sayin anything anybody says right or wrong 100% definitively is promoting facade cuz i beleive no one really knows anything... 

 So telling people the proper way to wear hijab in my book is promoting fasad I guess, which or course for your  reasons will disagree with And that's cool . 

 

I'll be lying if I said I know 100% of anything. That girl in of itself is not promoting fasad- that is a bit absurd-- the ideology is promoting fasad-- the notion that anyone can choose what to make permissible and what is not permissible is fasad. I definitely understand that you are confused which is completely alright, by all means I understand why you are confused because in reality everything is confusing. I question a lot of things, but when given facts and logical evidence I become sound. It is not good to stay confused forever.

I would never tell people what is the proper hijab because I don't know. Everyone has their own interpretations of what is hijab based on what sounds logical to them and that is between them and God. I agree with telling people to wear proper hijab is fasad, because it is not following the rules that religion is not compulsory. The truth can get muddled with everything that is why people of this era have the largest trial of all mankind. The old days during the prophet's time was much easier to follow the right path in my opinion. 

I agree with no one knows the real truth because no one does. There is no one to ascertain the truth. Only our minds and logic and evidence. That is why every human being must study and reason with logic. 

Edited by Futuremedstudent

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6 hours ago, dragonxx said:

this not spreading a message of "have pride in how you look and show it off to people", I wonder how the many ways people will interpret this across the world lol.

To me, it seemed like the message is: hijab is not a barrier for participating in society.

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