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DarConall

Why are homosexual acts sinful?

Reza

Personal attacks and topic derailment removed, as well as responses to said attacks and derailment. 

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Salaam brothers and sisters, 

Allow me this question regarding homosexuality. I expect some to answer ''because God said so,'' and although that's a good reason for me and you, it's not the answer I'm looking for. Rephrase my question to "what's the reason God prohibited homosexual acts?'' if you will. That is, if you belief all God does is reasonable. 

I understand why thievery is forbidden: it's an egoistical act. Use enough reason and you conclude that thievery goes against the message of tawheed: worship is for God alone. Egoism is self-worship and hinders humankind from reaching her potential in attaining nearness to God. But what about homosexual acts? Why are they forbidden? In what way do they hinder humankind from reaching nearness to God and attaining their potential? I can't empathise with homosexuals nearly as well as I can with thiefs, so I'm unable to find a first point from which to reason towards a conclusion regarding the harmful aspect of homosexuality.

Insha'Allah someone can answer this question. 

Edited by DarConall

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At best we can speculate as to why something is or isnt allowed in religion, but the only true answer is that God has decreed it so. 

Anyone who comes up with a theory is speculating and may be completely off the mark, unless they can provide evidence to back up their claim. 

God knows best. 

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Just now, Mahdavist said:

At best we can speculate as to why something is or isnt allowed in religion, but the only true answer is that God has decreed it so. 

Anyone who comes up with a theory is speculating and may be completely off the mark, unless they can provide evidence to back up their claim. 

God knows best. 

One could argue most of our knowledge is speculation, regardless of its evidence. 

But that's not what this topic is about. 

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33 minutes ago, DarConall said:

Salaam brothers and sisters, 

Allow me this question regarding homosexuality. I expect some to answer ''because God said so,'' and although that's a good reason for me and you, it's not the answer I'm looking for. Rephrase my question to "what's the reason God prohibited homosexual acts?'' if you will. That is, if you belief all God does is reasonable. 

I understand why thievery is forbidden: it's an egoistical act. Use enough reason and you conclude that thievery goes against the message of tawheed: worship is for God alone. Egoism is self-worship and hinders humankind from reaching her potential in attaining nearness to God. But what about homosexual acts? Why are they forbidden? In what way do they hinder humankind from reaching nearness to God and attaining their potential? I can't empathise with homosexuals nearly as well as I can with thiefs, so I'm unable to find a first point from which to reason towards a conclusion regarding the harmful aspect of homosexuality.

Insha'Allah someone can answer this question. 

The family unit is held in extreme importance in Islam. We are now understanding that this structure is a key factor for healthy well rounded children. Anything that alters this critical balance I can see as being disliked. 

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1 hour ago, Carlzone said:

Ok, check out these two posts in this thread. Check out page four:

 

Hmm, thanks for the effort! 

I can't find the part where he specifically answers my question: he only answers why we accept the sinful character homosexual acts, but not how God determined their harm and thus sinfulness specifically. I wonder if any grand scholars have an explanation other than because God said so. 

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Because marriage is supposed to be the only outlet for sexual urges.

A person, gay or straight, who doesn't want to marry or is unable to marry, must find ways to repress those urges. Marriage is highly recommended. 

You might ask why marriage must be between a man and a woman, not two men or two women. All I can say about that is "because God said so". 

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5 minutes ago, DarConall said:

Hmm, thanks for the effort! 

I can't find the part where he specifically answers my question: he only answers why we accept the sinful character homosexual acts, but not how God determined their harm and thus sinfulness specifically. I wonder if any grand scholars have an explanation other than because God said so. 

All thanks to Allah SWT :)

As I understood it, there is harm in that behaviour and God knows exactly why and how. He has just not given us the whole answer right now. We as human beings are in no position to question his wisdom. If he says it is not ok, then we as limited human beings need to trust him on this issue. 

Personally I have no problems with understanding what homosexuality can lead to in society. It is destructive to society. There are of course always exceptions, but I'll give you general examples:

One of the biggest tests in life for most people is marriage. How well you handle your wajibaat in your marriage will have serious consequences in the hereafter. 

Women and men are constructed differently. When you get married you will need to make efforts in understanding and collaborating with the opposite gender. This requires effort, self control, patience etc. In this process you evolve spiritually as you hopefully mature as a human being and develop virtues. 

If two men get married, they will not need to adjust to eachother as much as a man and a woman will, as they are the same gender. It will be an easier test than a heterosexual marriage. This will bring less opportunities for spiritual development. 

Here's an example: a common problem in marriages is that of sex. Men want more sex than women. This requires effort to solve. The man will most likely get frustrated. Thus he will have an opportunity to develop more patience here than in a homosexual marriage where his partner most likely wants more sex than a regular woman. He will not suffer as much when it comes to sex in a homosexual marriage and will not have to develop as much patience in this regard. 

Remember that the whole purpose of life is to get closer to perfection by developing virtues. That takes hard work and difficult tests in order to reach. 

This was just a small example. I have many others. To me it is crystal clear that homosexuality that is acted upon is very destructive to the individual himself and to society as a whole.

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The Quran speaks of a community that violated the Sabbath. That community comprised of three types of people: (1) the violators, (2) those who spoke out against the violation, (3) those who wanted to leave the violators alone.

There are proven negative affects on children that grow up in a fatherless home or a motherless home - they are more likely to be affected by poverty, crime, academic failure, unstable relationships, and mental health issues. It is deeply immoral to facilitate these things through homosexual marriage.

This is a public medicine paper from 1990 which mentions that male victims of male rape often question their own sexual identity as a result of the traumatic experience. Now imagine those who are abused as children, who do not yet have a matured sexual identity - these are often the ones who become homosexuals. According to this study, 46% of homosexual respondents reported childhood homosexual molestation, and that's just those who can remember it or admit to it. This study says that victims of childhood homosexual abuse were 7 times more likely to identify as homosexuals. These studies show a causal trend in both males and females. Freud furthermore identified homosexuality as a factor leading to paranoid schizophrenia.

So we shouldn't say that an illness is totally okay. Furthermore, what is possibly worse than sodomy itself is the homosexual identity. We don't believe that we should identify ourselves by base desires. If you experience same-sex attraction, that's one thing, but to make it your identity means that your politics, lifestyle, clothing, friendships etc. are all centred around this worldly, appetitive issue.

That being said, hate the sin, not the sinner. Homosexuality is not unique from other forms of sexual indeceny, or even taking usury (a war against God), lying, murdering, etc. This applies to gays, but it also applies to fornicators, adulterers, masturbators, pedophiles, necrophiliacs, bestiality-performers, and others. Homosexuals are people too. The fitra is in them, and they have the potential to be guided. Even if they struggle with their attraction issues, they must receive the mercy and love that Muslims have for one another. As soon as someone acts on their intention to disobey Allah, they have sinned, and it is up to the individual to repent and change. That being said, we cannot condone this behaviour as okay or good. It is an illness, and every illness has a cure except death.

Some food for thought.

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OP read / watch some ex-gay testimonies and you'll get a better picture of how destructive the lifestyle is and how deep the mental issues go.

I can recommend The Last Closet by Miora Greyland. I personally read the book - it is not for the faint of heart. Her parents were gay, she was abused as a child, everything is laid out. Good luck.

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10 minutes ago, Klanky said:

When I click the little heart button I see no "Nonsense" icon - is there a bug in the site? 

There's a respectfully disagree button, because this site is meant for actual listening and discussing.

You owe the person whose opinion you call nonsense an explanation. This is not the place for lazy and silly comments like this, either actually discuss or stay away. 

Edited by DarConall

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:salam:
Bismillahi Ar-rahman Ar-raheem
Alhamdulillahi Rabi Al3alameen, wa sallatu wa salam 3ala Sayydeena Muhammad wa 3ala alihi ajmaeen
the universe is governed by divine laws, so everything has its law. There is the law of gravity and other physical laws, just as there are the moral laws that govern the nature of the human being, but because we are beings of free will, we can choose to obey these laws or not.
The nature of man is basically: he is born as a man: then he must fulfill the precepts of masuclinidade, hence the use of the beard for example. If a woman is born, she must be a female in every respect, hence the woman's hijab. Becoming a homosexual opposes God's laws precisely for that, and practicing homosexual acts as well, for you will be against the inherent principle of the sexual nature of man, so it is a sin.
Hope this helps :grin:
Salaam.

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The best answer is we believe in objective morality decreed by Allah swt, that’s the first reason why we don’t indulge in these sinful actions however scholars will give extra reasoning to help us understand why it’s forbidden to make it easy on us Insh’Allah. 

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On 9/2/2018 at 6:36 PM, DarConall said:

Salaam brothers and sisters, 

Allow me this question regarding homosexuality. I expect some to answer ''because God said so,'' and although that's a good reason for me and you, it's not the answer I'm looking for. Rephrase my question to "what's the reason God prohibited homosexual acts?'' if you will. That is, if you belief all God does is reasonable. 

I understand why thievery is forbidden: it's an egoistical act. Use enough reason and you conclude that thievery goes against the message of tawheed: worship is for God alone. Egoism is self-worship and hinders humankind from reaching her potential in attaining nearness to God. But what about homosexual acts? Why are they forbidden? In what way do they hinder humankind from reaching nearness to God and attaining their potential? I can't empathise with homosexuals nearly as well as I can with thiefs, so I'm unable to find a first point from which to reason towards a conclusion regarding the harmful aspect of homosexuality.

Insha'Allah someone can answer this question. 

I do not know why homosexuality is wrong but have you ever seen/met such a person/s (homosexual)?

You will understand why it is wrong.
Are they sane or you can trust them ?
Again If a brother and a sister fall in love, after reaching adulthood.. how will you tell them it’s wrong?

Why stop consenting adults from doing anything?

The only answer is because god said so.

 

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The first case of HIV/AIDS occurred in a homosexual. Still to this day, the prevalence of HIV/AIDS is higher in the homosexual population compared to the heterosexual population by far. I remember talking to a specialist in Infectious Diseases here in Canada, she explained how the incidence of HIV/AIDS shoots up several weeks after a gay pride parade every single year.

Anal intercourse causes dysfunction of the anal sphincter over time leading to incontinence (you can't control poop).

Anal intercourse increases the risk of anal cancer.

etc. etc.

only a few of the many reasons why it's a sin, and those are only "physical" reasons, there are societal, psychological, and spiritual reasons why homosexual acts are detestable.

 

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7 hours ago, dragonxx said:

The first case of HIV/AIDS occurred in a homosexual. Still to this day, the prevalence of HIV/AIDS is higher in the homosexual population compared to the heterosexual population by far. I remember talking to a specialist in Infectious Diseases here in Canada, she explained how the incidence of HIV/AIDS shoots up several weeks after a gay pride parade every single year.

Anal intercourse causes dysfunction of the anal sphincter over time leading to incontinence (you can't control poop).

Anal intercourse increases the risk of anal cancer.

etc. etc.

only a few of the many reasons why it's a sin, and those are only "physical" reasons, there are societal, psychological, and spiritual reasons why homosexual acts are detestable.

 

Those are not reasons it's a sin, they are associated risks that apply to heterosexuals too. You can minimise your exposure to these risks but unless you live sex-free then you can't completely avoid the risk. For example a  chaste virgin bride could contract HPV on her wedding night and die of a HPV-related cancer. Diseases don't discriminate between sinful and virtuous people.  

HIV was around long before your first case

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_HIV/AIDS

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26 minutes ago, Klanky said:

HIV was around long before your first case

it's true but AIDS used as a bio weapon against Homosexuals in America & Africans were test subjects before that .

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1 hour ago, Klanky said:

Those are not reasons it's a sin, they are associated risks that apply to heterosexuals too. You can minimise your exposure to these risks but unless you live sex-free then you can't completely avoid the risk. For example a  chaste virgin bride could contract HPV on her wedding night and die of a HPV-related cancer. Diseases don't discriminate between sinful and virtuous people.  

HIV was around long before your first case

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_HIV/AIDS

They could definitely be some of the reasons why God forbade homosexual acts and considers them sins.

Did you miss the prevalence levels he mentioned? Obviously homosexuals are living a far more dangerous and unhealthy lifestyle, physically, psychologically, spiritually and are destroying society. 

Edited by Carlzone

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22 minutes ago, Carlzone said:

They could definitely be some of the reasons why God forbade homosexual acts and considers them sins.

Did you miss the prevalence levels he mentioned? Obviously homosexuals are living a far more dangerous and unhealthy lifestyle, physically, psychologically, spiritually and are destroying society. 

Some are, some aren't. Such generalisations are meaningless

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22 minutes ago, Klanky said:

Some are, some aren't. Such generalisations are meaningless

As long as God has not given us all of the exact reasons they could all be amongst those.

They are very meaningful as many people want to understand what could be the reason why homosexuality is such a grave sin that Allah SWT destroyed a whole nation of homosexuals. Anything that can add to that understanding is valuable and meaningful indeed.

But of course this is not fun for you as a homosexual to read. 

Edited by Carlzone

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