Jump to content
Follower of Ahlulbayt

Refutation of All Hadith that Indicate Mawla means friend in Hadith al-Ghadeer

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Refutation of All Hadith that Indicate Mawla means friend in Hadith al-Ghadeer

Quote

Nasibi Argument #1

 Example #1: Buraydah(RA) used the hadeeth al-Ghadeer when he found people criticizing Ali(RA), in the similar way Prophet(SAWS) used it on Ghadeer.

أنه مرَّ على مجلسٍ وهم يتناولون من عليٍّ فوقف عليهم فقال إنه قد كان في نفسي على عليٍّ شيءٌ وكان خالدُ بنُ الوليدِ كذلك فبعثَني رسولُ اللهِ صلَّى اللهُ عليهِ وسلَّمَ في سرِيَّةٍ عليها عليٌّ وأصبْنا سبيًا قال فأخذ عليٌّ جاريةً من الخُمسِ لنفسِه فقال خالدُ بنُ الوليدِ دونَك قال فلما قدِمْنا على النبيِّ صلَّى اللهُ عليهِ وسلَّمَ جعلتُ أُحدِّثُه بما كان ثمَّ قلتُ إنَّ عليًّا أخذ جاريةً من الخُمُسِ قال وكنتُ رجلًا مِكبابًا قال فرفعتُ رأسي فإذا وجهُ رسولِ اللهِ صلَّى اللهُ عليهِ وسلَّمَ تغيَّر فقال من كنتُ مولاهُ فعليٌّ مولاه
Buraidah bin al-Husayb al-Aslami(RA) narrates that when he passed by some folks criticizing `Ali (RA) he stood and said to them: “I had some resentment towards `Ali in my heart, and so did Khalid ibn al-Waleed, so the Prophet (SAWS) sent me in an army and `Ali was our leader, (after the battle) there were captives, so `Ali chose a maid form the Khums for himself from among the captives and Khalid was upset. When we came to the Prophet (SAWS) I told him what `Ali did and complained, when I raised my head I saw signs of anger on the face of the Prophet (SAWS) and he said: “I am the Mawla of whomever `Ali is his Mawla.” [Silsila as-Saheehah vol 4, page 336 ; al-Albani said the chain of this narration is authentic according to Muslim and Bukhari].

Comment: This incident most likely occurred much after the Ghadeer event, since in this report Buraidah(RA) tells those people who criticized Ali(RA) the whole scenario right from the begining that they were sent under the command of Ali, and what all happened, etc. This is clearly the case of later time, since those people had no idea about it, that is why Buraidah had to explain the whole issue, whereas people who criticized Ali before the Ghadeer event, as well as the people of Madinah were well aware of whole scenario. Therefore, we find that Buraidah(RA) used the hadeeth al-Ghadeer later, when he found some people criticizing Ali(RA). But we don’t find Buraidah using this hadeeth during appointment of Caliphs.

This narration is weak as al-'Amash narrates it with 'An'anah. Sunnis may also appeal to a hadith in Khasa'is by Nasai', where it states that Buraida goes to the Prophet (saw) to complain about Ali after coming from Yemen. The Prophet (saw) then tells him, “Whosoever I am his mawla then Ali is his mawla.”

However, this cannot be used as evidence because it contradicts the hadith in Bukhari where it states when Buraida met the Prophet after coming from Yemen, the Prophet (saw) simply states "Do not hate Ali because he deserves more from the Khums"  rather than man kunta mawla.  Since there is contradiction, the hadith in Khasa'is cannot be used as evidence. 

Quote

Nasibi Argument #2

Example #2: Sa’d ibn Abi Waqqas(RA) used Hadeeth al-Ghadeer in the similar way Prophet(SAWS) used it on Ghadeer.

Sa’d ibn Abi Waqqas(RA) says that there are three qualities of Ali(RA) which he remembers out of four, that prevent him from abusing Ali(ra), and he lists those three qualities, and one of them is hadeeth al-Ghadeer.

حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ الصَّقْرِ، سَنَةَ تِسْعٍ وَتِسْعِينَ وَمِائَتَيْنِ، قثنا يَعْقُوبُ بْنُ حُمَيْدِ بْنِ كَاسِبٍ قثنا سُفْيَانُ، عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي نَجِيحٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ رَبِيعَةَ الْجُرَشِيِّ أَنَّهُ ذُكِرَ عَلِيٌّ عِنْدَ رَجُلٍ وَعِنْدَهُ سَعْدُ بْنُ أَبِي وَقَّاصٍ، فَقَالَ لَهُ سَعْدٌ: أَتَذْكُرُ عَلِيًّا، إِنَّ لَهُ مَنَاقِبَ أَرْبَعًا، لِأَنْ تَكُونَ لِي وَاحِدَةٌ مِنْهُنَّ أَحَبُّ إِلَيَّ مِنْ كَذَا وَكَذَا. وَذَكَرَ حُمْرَ النَّعَمِ وَقَوْلَهُ: «لَأُعْطِيَنَّ الرَّايَةَ» ، وَقَوْلَهُ: أَنْتَ مِنِّي بِمَنْزِلَةِ هَارُونَ مِنْ مُوسَى “، وَقَوْلَهُ: «مَنْ كُنْتُ مَوْلَاهُ فَعَلِيٌّ مَوْلَاهُ» ، وَنَسِيَ سُفْيَانُ وَاحِدَةً.

“Rabi’a al-Jurashi reported: A man said something(negative) infront of Sa’d bin Abi Waqas(RA) about Ali(RA). So Sa‘d bin Abī Waqās(RA) said, you talk(negative) about Ali(RA)? He possessed four qualities, that of the four qualities of ‘Alī (RA) if I possessed anyone of them, I would have held it dearer than such and such, even the red camels. (first quality) he was blessed with the flag (on the occasion of the battle of Khaybar; (second quality is) the Prophet’s saying about him (that they are related) as Hārūn and Mūsā (were related); (third quality is) the Prophet’s saying about him that one who has me as his Mawla (has ‘Alī as his Mawla). (The sub-narrator) Sufyān did not remember the fourth quality.[Ibn Abī ‘Āsim related it in as-Sunnah (page 607, #1385);  Ahmad bin Hambal related it in Fadā’il-us-sahāhah vol 2, page 643 #1093); Isnaad Hasan].

Comment: Obviously Sa’d by wishing to have anyone of those qualities wasn’t wishing to become Successor of Prophet(SAWS), especially by the hadeeth of Ghadeer, since we know Sa’d as one of the candidate for the position of third Caliph chosen by Umar(RA), but Sa’d ibn Abi Waqas withdrew his candidature in favor of Abdur Rahman ibn Awf[Refer Sahih al-Bukhari #3700]. Therefore, what he meant was the merits which signified Ali(RA) as Wali(friend) of Allah and a beloved of Prophet(SAWS). This is why he never used this report during the appointment of Caliphs, but rather he used it to explain, what prevented him from abusing Ali. If Sa’d had understood event of Ghadeer to mean that Ali(RA) was appointed as Caliph, then he would have atleast given up his candidature of third Caliph in favour of Ali(RA) not Abdur Rahman ibn Awf

This narration is weak as it contains Ya'qoub b. Humayd b. Kāsib who al-Uqayli mentions transmits uncorroborated narrations. This hadith also contradicts the hadith in Muslim

 

Quote

Nasibi Argument #3

Example #3: Ali ibn Abi Talib(RA) used hadeeth al-Ghadeer when he found people speaking badly about him during his Caliphate. He used this merit in the similar way Prophet(SAWS) used it on Ghadeer.

حدثنا شريك عن أبي إسحاق عن سعيد بن وهب عن زيد بن يثيع قال : بلغ عليا أن أناسا يقولون فيه ؛ قال : فصعد المنبر فقال : أنشد الله رجلا ولا أنشده إلا من أصحاب محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم سمع من النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم شيئا إلا قام ، فقام مما يليه ستة ، ومما يلي سعد بن وهب ستة فقالوا : نشهد أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال : من كنت مولاه فعلي مولاه ، اللهم وال من والاه وعاد من عاداه

Zaid bin Yathee’that he said: Ali was told that people were talking about him(badly), so he climbed the pulpit and said: May Allah beseech a man, and I don’t beseech except the companions of Mohammad(SAWS), those who heard the Prophet(SAWS) who heard saying something, for him to stand up. So six people stood up, and after Sa’ad bin Wahb six people said: We swear that the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him said: Man kuntu mawlah fa Aliyun Mawlah(Whosoever I am Mawla of, Ali is his Mawla), Allahuma wali man walaah wa aadi man aadah. [Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah , Chapter of the Merits of Ali, Hadeeth #28)

Comment: The authentic narrations of Ghadeer Khum, when attributed to `Ali, are Mutawatir to him since he uttered those words in the area of Al-Rahabah near the outskirts of Al-Kufa. Due to the large amount of people around, the narration was documented and then spread near and far, and through a large number of his students.

Even though most narrations are not clear in what was the reason that `Ali spoke those words, we do find this vague narration from Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah (Hadith #28 of the Chapter of the Merits of `Ali) that suggests that this was done when `Ali was told that people “Yaquloon Feeh,” which roughly translates into: they spoke about him. Which most likely shows that they spoke badly about him, due to which Ali(RA), in order to defend himself besought the companions of Prophet(SAWS) to testify that they heard the hadeeth al-Ghadeer from Prophet(SAWS). It must be known that, the opponents of Ali(RA) during his Caliphate didn’t deny Ali(RA) being a Caliph of Muslims. But some of them like the Khawarij whom he fought at Al-Nahrawan, hated him and criticized him.

This narration is weak as Abī Ishāq narrates this with 'An'anah, and he is a mudallis. Also, Shareek makes mistakes and Zayd b. Yuthay' is problematic. 

 

Quote

Nasibi Argument #4

Example #4: Ali(RA) used Hadeeth al-Ghadeer on the day of battle of Jamal, so that Talhah(RA) shouldn’t fight with him. He used this merit of his in the similar way Prophet(SAWS) used it on Ghadeer.

We read:

عن رفاعة بن إياس الضبي،  عن أبيه،  عن جده،  قال: كنا مع علي رضي الله عنه يوم الجمل،  فبعث إلى طلحة بن عبيد الله أن القني،  فأتاه طلحة رضي الله عنه،  فقال: نشدتك الله! هل سمعت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم يقول: من كنت مولاه فعلي مولاه،  اللهم! وال من ولاه،  وعاد من عاداه؟ قال: نعم. قال: فلم تقاتلني؟ قال: لم أذكر. قال: فانصرف طلحة رضي الله عنه.

“Rifā‘ah bin Iyās ad-Dabbī relates on the authority of his father who relates it on the authority of his grandfather. He said: We were with ‘Alī (RA) on the day of the Battle of Jamal. He sent a message for Talhah bin ‘Ubaydullāh (RA) who called on him. He said: I make you swear by Allāh! Have you heard from the Messenger of Allāh (SAW): One who has me as his Mawla has ‘Alī as his Mawla O Allāh! Befriend him who befriends him and be his enemy who is his enemy. Talhah (RA) said: Yes. ‘Alī (RA) said: Then why do you fight with me? Talhah (RA) said: I did not remember it. The narrator said: (After this) Talhah (RA) went back.”[ Hākim narrated it in al-Mustadrak vol 3, page 371 # 5594 ; Bayhaqī in al-I‘tiqād wal-hidāyah ilā sabīl-ir-rishād ‘alā madhhab-is-salaf wa ashāb-il-hadīth page 373; Ibn ‘Asākir in Tārīkh Dimashq al-kabīr vol 27, page 76].

Comment: Since Battle of Jamal took place in 36 AH, 25 years after the death of Prophet(SAWS), Talhah(RA) had forgotten the Hadeeth al-Ghadeer. However Ali(RA) during the day of Jamal, reminded Talhah(RA) about hadeeth al-Ghadeer, the point was that his opponents had no right in fighting him, they are ordered to love and befriend him. The reminder of Hadeeth al-Ghadeer from Ali(RA) had NO relation to Caliphate, since as per the testimony of Ali(RA) in Nahjul Balagha, Talha(RA) was one of those who approached Ali(RA) to become the Caliph after the death of Uthman(RA), even though he(Ali) had no liking for it. 

This hadith is weak as it contains Iyās b. Nadheer who is unknown. So this hadith cannot be used as evidence. 

Quote

Nasibi Argument #5

Example #5: Ibn Abbas(RA) used the hadeeth al-Ghadeer when he found people criticizing Ali(RA). He used this merit of Ali(RA) in the similar way Prophet(SAWS) used it on Ghadeer.

حدثنا عبد الله حدثنا يحيى بن حماد حدثنا أبو عوانة حدثنا أبو بلج حدثنا عمرو بن ميمون قال إني لجالس إلى ابن عباس إذ أتاه تسعة رهط فقالوا يا أبا عباس إما أن تقوم معنا وإما أن يخلونا هؤلاء قال فقال ابن عباس بل أقوم معكم قال وهو يومئذ صحيح قبل أن يعمى قال فابتدءوا فتحدثوا فلا ندري ما قالوا قال فجاء ينفض ثوبه ويقول أف وتف وقعوا في رجل له عشر……قال وقال من كنت مولاه فإن مولاه علي

Amr ibn Maymun said: “I was sitting once in the company of ibn Abbas when nine men came to him and said, ‘O ibn Abbas! Either come to debate with us, or tell these folks that you prefer a private debate.’ He had not lost his eye-sight yet he said: ‘I rather debate with you.’ So they started talking, but I was not sure exactly what they were talking about. Then he stood up and angrily said: “Woe to them! Woe to them! They insult a man who gathered ten (virtues)!.… Prophet(SAWS) also said: Whosoever I am Mawla of, Ali is his Mawla. [Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal. Vol. 3, Pg. # 331 – 333.]

Commentary on the text of the narration:

The narration begins when nine men come to one of the gatherings of ibn `Abbas, and he was still healthy before he went blind, they tell him to either come with them or that he should ask those in attendance to leave. Ibn `Abbas agrees to go and they talk about things in private, then he returns while being upset and angry at them, he says:

This same hadith includes Ibn 'Abbas stating "Ali is the Wali of every believer after me". The 'wali' here obviously means master. If Ibn Abbas stated this, we find it highly likely that Ibn Abbas takes the Man Kunta Mawla hadith to mean master as well.

Quote

Nasibi Argument #6

Example #6: Umar(RA) during his Caliphate said Ali(RA) is his Mawla, to show his love for Ali(RA) to rebuke those who insulted Ali(RA). He used this merit of Ali(RA) in the similar way Prophet(SAWS) used it on Ghadeer.

We read:

عن عمر رضي الله عنه: وقد نازعه رجل في مسألة، فقال: بيني وبينك هذا الجالس، وأشار إلى علي بن أبي طالب رضي الله عنه، فقال الرجل: هذا الأبطن؟ فنهض عمر رضي الله عنه عن مجلسه وأخذ بتلبيبه حتى شاله من الأرض، ثم قال: أتدري من صغرت، مولاي ومولا كل مسلم.

“It is narrated by ‘Umar (RA) that once a person had an argument with him. He said: the man sitting here will decide between you and me, and he pointed towards ‘Alī (RA). That man said: this pot-bellied person (will decide between us)! ‘Umar (RA) rose from his seat, caught him by the collar and lifted him from the ground. Then he said: Do you know that the person you consider worthless is my Mawla(beloved friend) as well as the Mawla of every Muslim. [ar-Riyād-un-nadrah vol 3, page 128].

Also we read in Sunni hadeeth:
أَخْبَرَنَا أَبُو بَكْرٍ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الْبَاقِي، وَأَبُو الْمَوَاهِبِ أَحْمَدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الْمَلِكِ، قَالا: أنا أَبُو مُحَمَّدٍ الْجَوْهَرِيُّ، أنا أَبُو الْحُسَيْنِ بْنُ الْمُظَفَّرِ، نا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ الْبَاغَنْدِيُّ، نا أَحْمَدُ بْنُ عُثْمَانَ بْنِ حَكِيمٍ الأَوْدِيُّ، نا شُرَيْحُ بْنُ مَسْلَمَةَ، نا إِبْرَاهِيمُ بْنُ يُوسُفَ، عَنْ عَبْدِ الْجَبَّارِ بْنِ الْعَبَّاسِ الشَّامِيِّ، عَنْ عَمَّارٍ الدُّهْنِيِّ، عَنْ أَبِي فَاخِتَةَ، قَالَ: أَقْبَلَ عَلِيٌّ وَعُمَرُ جالس في مجلسه، فلما رآه عمر تضعضع وتواضع وتوسع له في المجلس، فلما قام علي، قَالَ بَعْضُ الْقَوْمِ: يَا أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ: إِنَّكَ تَصْنَعُ بِعَلِيٍّ صَنِيعًا مَا تَصْنَعُهُ بِأَحَدٍ مِنْ أَصْحَابِ مُحَمَّدٍ، قَالَ عُمَرُ: وَمَا رَأَيْتَنِي أَصْنَعُ بِهِ؟ قَالَ: رَأَيْتُكَ كُلَّمَا رَأَيْتَهُ تَضَعْضَعْتَ وَتَوَاضَعْتَ وَأَوْسَعْتَ حَتَّى يَجْلِسَ، قَالَ: ” وَمَا يَمْنَعُنِي، وَاللَّهِ إِنَّهُ لَمَوْلايَ وَمَوْلَى كُلِّ مُؤْمِنٍ
[We were told by Abu Bakr Muhammad bin `Abdul-Baqi al-Ansari who is Thiqah(Trustworthy), Thabt, Hujjah and by abu al-Mawahib Ahmad bin `Abdul-Malik, they both said: Abu Muhammad al-Jawhari who is Thiqah(Trusthworthy), Muhaddith told us, abu al-Husayn al-Muzaffar who is Thiqah, Shi`ee told us, Muhammad bin Muhammad al-Baghandi who is Thiqah, Mudallis (declared hearing) told us, Ahmad bin `Uthman bin Hakeem al-Awdi who is Thiqah, Hujjah told us, Shurayh bin Maslamah who is Thiqah told us, Ibrahim bin Yusuf who is Saduq told us, from `Abdul-Jabbar bin al-`Abbas al-Shami who is Saduq, Shi`ee from `Ammar al-Duhani who is Thiqah, Shi`ee from abu Fakhitah who is Thiqah, Shi`ee, Mawla Umm Hani’ bint abi Talib that he said: `Ali came to `Umar while he was sitting in his Majlis(place of gathering), so when `Umar saw him he became muddled and humble, then he moved to offer him comfortable sitting place. Later when `Ali left the gathering, some of the people asked: “O Ameer al-Mu’mineen, you treat `Ali unlike anyone from the companions of Muhammad (saw)?” `Umar said to the man: “How do you see my behavior towards him?” The man said: “I notice that whenever you see him you become muddled and you humble yourself to him and move to the side that he may sit comfortably.” `Umar said: “And what’s preventing me from doing so? By Allah, he is my Mawla and the Mawla of every believer.”] [Source: Tarikh Dimashq 42/235]

Comment: We see here that Umar(RA) EVEN during his Caliphate called Ali(RA) as his Mawla. It is obvious that Umar(RA) didn’t mean to say that Ali(RA) was his Master or Caliph while he being a Caliph himself!. What Umar(ra) meant was that Ali(RA) was his beloved friend that is why he gives him special preference. Had it been that Umar(ra) meant Master, then he would have atleast, made Ali(RA) his successor or the third Caliph, instead of appointing a six member committee to choose the third Caliph.

The first hadith is mursal.

As for the second one from Tarikh DImashq, we can see that it includes many Shi'ees and we find it very likely that one of them fabricated this saying of Umar. Also, the chain is weak as it contains Ibrahim b. Yusuf who the majority of scholars have weakened. The chain also includes `Abdul-Jabbar bin al-`Abbas who al-Uqayli and ibn 'Adi have said about him that he transmits uncorroborated narrations. 

Quote

Nasibi Argument #7

Example #7: Prophet(SAWS) used the wordings of hadeeth al-Ghadeer when there was a quarrel beween Ali(RA) and Usamah(RA). He(saws) used this merit of Ali(RA) in the similar way he used it on Ghadeer.

We read:

وحدثنا أبو بكر بن أبي داود قال : حدثنا المسيب بن واضح قال : حدثنا مروان بن معاوية الفزاري ، عن مرزوق ، عن أبي بسطام مولى أسامة قال : كان بين أسامة وبين علي رضي الله عنه منازعة ، فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم : « يا علي ، والله إني لأحبه » يعني أسامة فكأن عليا رضي الله عنه وجد في نفسه ، فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم : « يا أسامة ، من كنت مولاه فعلي مولاه »
[From abi Bistam the servant of Usamah, he said: There was a quarrel between Usamah and `Ali. So Rasul-Allah (saw) said to `Ali: “O `Ali, by Allah I love him (meaning Usamah).” Then it is as if `Ali felt sadness from this, so Rasul-Allah (saw) said to Usamah: “O Usamah, whomever I am his Mawla `Ali is also his Mawla.”[ Al-Shari`ah lil-Ajurry ; Tareekh Dimashq ; Sharh al-Usoul lil-Lalika’ee].

Comment: As the readers can see, the Prophet(SAWS) can’t possibly be appointing `Ali here as his successor. He used these wording when there was a quarrel between Ali(RA) and Usamah(RA), So that Usamah(RA) takes Ali(RA) as his beloved friend.

The main narrator, abi Bistam is unknown so this narration cannot be used as evidence. 

 

Conclusion:

There is not one single authentic hadith which can be used to support the argument where 'mawla' in the hadith of al-Ghadeer meant friend. In addition, all these narrations are from Sunni sources anyways and cannot be used as evidence against Shias. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The meaning of Mawala as given in Ghaderr narration is leader who is to be followed/Obeyed, like the prophet who is also Mawla of believers.  Thus confirming that Imam Ali is Mawla of believers and he is the leader after the prophet and he should be obeyed with the same authority as that of the prophet on believers.

لنَّبِيُّ أَوْلَىٰ بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ مِنْ أَنفُسِهِمْ

 The Prophet has more authority over the believers than themselves.  (33:36)

 Thus it confirms that Mawla has more authority over believers than themselves. This is the real meaning of Mawla who is Leader after the prophet Muhammad saw. And Imam Ali is Mawla (Leader) of believers.

The details and evidences can be seen at the given link:

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I think there is another pertinent point that can be made about the three phrases in hadith al-ghadeer. Regarding the prophet’s (s) preceding statement before “for whomsoever i am his mawla..”, which is:

- الست اولى بالمؤمنين من انفسهم؟ (am I not worthy over the believers than themselves?) in reference to 33:6

If this statement is not a qarina for the meaning of mawla, then a Sunni is forced to conclude that this initial phrase was a pointless and irrelevant thing for the nabi (s) to say as it served no purpose (والعياذ بالله). As we all know, the prophet (s) does not speak redundantly. A Sunni has to explain the significance of this first statement in the hadith if it is not the indicator of the meaning of mawla.

Edited by IbnMariam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, IbnMariam said:

 

 

 I think there is another pertinent point that can be made about the three phrases in hadith al-ghadeer. Regarding the prophet’s (s) preceding statement before “for whomsoever i am his mawla..”, which is:

 - الست اولى بالمؤمنين من انفسهم؟ (am I not worthy over the believers than themselves?) in reference to 33:6

If this statement is not a qarina for the meaning of mawla, then a Sunni is forced to conclude that this initial phrase was a pointless and irrelevant thing for the nabi (s) to say as it served no purpose (والعياذ بالله). As we all know, the prophet (s) does not speak redundantly. A Sunni has to explain the significance of this first statement in the hadith if it is not the indicator of the meaning of mawla.

What if they argue that اولى also does not mean authority, and it is about closeness and friendship as well? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Follower of Ahlulbayt said:

What if they argue that اولى also does not mean authority, and it is about closeness and friendship as well? 

The statement is a reference to the verse of the qur’an, and the sunni tafsirs of this verse all make it undeniable that the word awla is about authortity, check for yourself, there are several available here:

http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/tafseer/tafheem/sura33-aya6.html

so when the nabi (s) says من كنت مولاه فهذا علي مولاه he’s literally telling us that the authority he (s) commands over us, Ali (as) also has over us, that he is اولى بالمؤمنين من انفسهم

 

 

Another point: the tafsirs also state that the meaning of awla is not only encompassing of allegiance, obedience and preference for his judgements over their own, but that he is also more beloved to them than themselves, so if anything, for a sunni the hadith means both master and friend, so if they have examples of it being used in the context of friend by a sahabi, that does not necessarily entail it does not mean master.

Edited by IbnMariam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sunnis believe with regards to the companions that they had pure intentions even though they made mistakes, hadith al-ghadeer deconstructs this as it shows you can not fight Amir Al-mu’mineen with pure intentions as

1) he is the mawla of every mu’min

2) the prophet made a du’a for Allah to have enmity with whoever shows Ali enmity

so Aisha and Muawiya could not have had pure intentions when they fought him

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/2/2018 at 3:31 PM, IbnMariam said:

The statement is a reference to the verse of the qur’an, and the sunni tafsirs of this verse all make it undeniable that the word awla is about authortity, check for yourself, there are several available here:

http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/tafseer/tafheem/sura33-aya6.html

so when the nabi (s) says من كنت مولاه فهذا علي مولاه he’s literally telling us that the authority he (s) commands over us, Ali (as) also has over us, that he is اولى بالمؤمنين من انفسهم

 

 

Another point: the tafsirs also state that the meaning of awla is not only encompassing of allegiance, obedience and preference for his judgements over their own, but that he is also more beloved to them than themselves, so if anything, for a sunni the hadith means both master and friend, so if they have examples of it being used in the context of friend by a sahabi, that does not necessarily entail it does not mean master.

I was thinking about this today.....one of the arguments made by our opponents is that this statement "am I not worthy over the believers than themselves?" was nothing more than just getting the attention of the audience, and it has got no relation to "man kunta mawla...".

However, their objection is not satisfactory. Why? It is because we know that at Ghadeer Khumm, the Prophet (saw) delivered a long sermon. The statement "am I not worthy over the believers than themselves?" is not the first thing the Prophet (saw) says.

"Narrated by Zayd b. Arqam: One day Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) stood up to deliver sermon at a watering place known as Khumm situated between Mecca and Medina. He praised Allah, extolled Him and delivered the sermon and. exhorted (us) and said: Now to our purpose. O people, I am a human being. I am about to receive a messenger (the angel of death) from my Lord and I, in response to Allah's call, (would bid good-bye to you), but I am leaving among you two weighty things...." (Sahih Muslim)

The Prophet (saw) has already grabbed the audiences attention when he mentions that he will die soon. Therefore, it is not correct to say that the statement "am I not worthy over the believers than themselves?" was grabbing the attention of the audience. The statement was indeed the context for the next statement "man kunta mawla...". 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/23/2018 at 2:11 AM, Follower of Ahlulbayt said:

I was thinking about this today.....one of the arguments made by our opponents is that this statement "am I not worthy over the believers than themselves?" was nothing more than just getting the attention of the audience, and it has got no relation to "man kunta mawla...".

However, their objection is not satisfactory. Why? It is because we know that at Ghadeer Khumm, the Prophet (saw) delivered a long sermon. The statement "am I not worthy over the believers than themselves?" is not the first thing the Prophet (saw) says.

"Narrated by Zayd b. Arqam: One day Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) stood up to deliver sermon at a watering place known as Khumm situated between Mecca and Medina. He praised Allah, extolled Him and delivered the sermon and. exhorted (us) and said: Now to our purpose. O people, I am a human being. I am about to receive a messenger (the angel of death) from my Lord and I, in response to Allah's call, (would bid good-bye to you), but I am leaving among you two weighty things...." (Sahih Muslim)

The Prophet (saw) has already grabbed the audiences attention when he mentions that he will die soon. Therefore, it is not correct to say that the statement "am I not worthy over the believers than themselves?" was grabbing the attention of the audience. The statement was indeed the context for the next statement "man kunta mawla...". 

You're reply is sound and valid, but I think it's appropriate to say this:

My dear brother, I get it, you're trying to be academically honest so you're willing to listen to both sides, but you've read/listened to so much of their nonsense that it's led to you not seeing how nonsensical these objections are, and instead you feel the need to provide a counter-response to everything, no matter how silly. Frankly I think you've already done your duty in being honest in your search for truth, you've found it after closely considering both sides, and you're only doing a disservice to yourself by continuing to listen to people you know are not reasonable.

Getting the attention of the audience? He got the companions to build him a platform (1) and then he stood on that platform with Ali (as) and started giving a sermon... and you know, he's rasool Allah (s)...when he starts delivering a sermon, you listen... this stuff doesn't even need to be said, it's an objection that flies in the face of reasonable thinking.

Has no relation? Sorry what? It's literally the preceding statement which references a verse in the qur'an that makes it clear the total authority that the prophet (s) has over the mu'mineen through the word awla, and then in the next statement he says mawla...it's the same root word. I feel like banging my head on a table.

One can not even think of these ideas unless they're actively trying to deny Imam Ali's (as) status.

Edit: source for (1): http://ia902606.us.archive.org/34/items/waq47652/sahiha04.pdf

 

 

Edited by IbnMariam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, IbnMariam said:

My dear brother, I get it, you're trying to be academically honest so you're willing to listen to both sides, but you've read/listened to so much of their nonsense that it's led to you not seeing how nonsensical these objections are, and instead you feel the need to provide a counter-response to everything, no matter how silly. Frankly I think you've already done your duty in being honest in your search for truth, you've found it after closely considering both sides, and you're only doing a disservice to yourself by continuing to listen to people you know are not reasonable.

 

I understand your concerns, but I feel like giving a response to all their objections is necessary, even if the objection is silly.  That way people will know that their arguments are stupid and we have replies rather than us not responding and our opponents thinking their arguments are irrefutable. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×