What are the causes of apostasy in our day and age?

[Ayuoobi]

I have my own thoughts on this but I wanted to survey the field for your opinions. /discuss 

[Carlzone]

Please could you share a definition of apostasy?

[aaljibar]

36 minutes ago, Carlzone said:

Please could you share a definition of apostasy?

The abandonment/renouncement of the religion of islam.

Edited August 31, 2018 by aaljibar

[aaljibar]

I think it's due to the introduction of the dajjal system in western media such as the secular, highly sexualised, anti arab/minority media that is blatantly being introduced to the TV and internet.

[Carlzone]

5 minutes ago, aaljibar said:

The abandonment/renouncement of the religion of islam.

Oh ok. Thank you for your help!

Well, I would guess a PHD degree in arrogance and a Masters degree in self deceit. 

[Carlzone]

8 minutes ago, aaljibar said:

I think it's due to the introduction of the dajjal system in western media such as the secular, highly sexualised, anti arab/minority media that is blatantly being introduced to the TV and internet.

Those are the means. The true causes lie within. 

[Algerian Shia]

In my Opinion, it's due to science, technology improvement and secular influence.

[Carlzone]

3 minutes ago, Algerian Shia said:

In my Opinion, it's due to science, technology improvement and secular influence.

My opinion:

The problem here is not the tools. The problem here is how we use or rather abuse the tools. And what that stems from...

[SoRoUsH]

I'd start with the immense amount of ignorance within our own communities. Most people merely parrot what they hear. Most people, if their parents were not Muslims, they wouldn't be either. Most people have put careers and prosperity in this world ahead of success in the Hereafter. 

When one's already on shaky and weak foundations, it's not hard to push them completely off of it into disbelief and apostasy. 

[Abu_Zahra]

5 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

I'd start with the immense amount of ignorance within our own communities. Most people merely parrot what they hear. Most people, if their parents were not Muslims, they wouldn't be either. Most people have put careers and prosperity in this world ahead of success in the Hereafter. 

When one's already on shaky and weak foundations, it's not hard to push them completely off of it into disbelief and apostasy. 

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Apostasy is usually due to disillusionment stemming from the general ignorance and double standards of muslims with respect to the actual religion of islam.

Wallahu a'lam

[Ahmed_516478]

I think a big reason is because many if not most Muslims at least in the west do not have an authentically Islamic paradigm through which to interpret data, everyone has a paradigm  through which we view the world. Muslims in the west adopt liberal ideology and when they realize Islam clearly contradicts it they reject Islam (e.g. slavery, jihad ibtida'i, etc) . Case in point is how we portray the prophet (sawa), he wasn't a pacifist feminist hippy... If you know about Nabeel Quraishi this is really why he became a Christian. He was an ahmadi and ahmadis love to portray the prophet (sawa) as a pacifist hippy. Obviously his conversion to Christianity is totally idiotic given that what the prophets did in the old testament which was ordered by God is much "worse" (from a modern liberal POV) than anything attributed to Muhammad (sawa). 

[Mohammadi_follower]

3 hours ago, Shi3i_jadeed said:

I think a big reason is because many if not most Muslims at least in the west do not have an authentically Islamic paradigm through which to interpret data, everyone has a paradigm  through which we view the world. Muslims in the west adopt liberal ideology and when they realize Islam clearly contradicts it they reject Islam (e.g. slavery, jihad ibtida'i, etc) . Case in point is how we portray the prophet (sawa), he wasn't a pacifist feminist hippy... If you know about Nabeel Quraishi this is really why he became a Christian. He was an ahmadi and ahmadis love to portray the prophet (sawa) as a pacifist hippy. Obviously his conversion to Christianity is totally idiotic given that what the prophets did in the old testament which was ordered by God is much "worse" (from a modern liberal POV) than anything attributed to Muhammad (sawa). 

I don't know them very well. Excepted the belief in a new prophet what are their main beliefs and deviances exactly? 

[Ayuoobi]

1 hour ago, alidu78 said:

I don't know them very well. Excepted the belief in a new prophet what are their main beliefs and deviances exactly? 

Lets not derail the thread. Go wikipedia it.

Some good contributions so far.

[Qa'im]

The general difficulty of being Muslim must also be part of it. The modern world has made it difficult for a practicing Muslim to do business, get married, go to school, and attend socials without compromising with the haram to some degree. For those who are culturally Muslim, religion has become a liability that takes away more than it gives. Not everyone can handle the pressure of the decline of the Muslim world, and they're looking at alternatives that make them happier and their lives easier.

[Mohammadi_follower]

I think problem is also that nowadays most Muslims have no idea if what is sharia law and are not educated about that. So when they see some topics in Islamic books contrary to western secularism wich is the dominant ideology nowadays they are perturbated and many become apostate because Islam is for them contrary to "human rights" and "modernity" that western world try to promote.

[Ayuoobi]

15 hours ago, Qa'im said:

The general difficulty of being Muslim must also be part of it. The modern world has made it difficult for a practicing Muslim to do business, get married, go to school, and attend socials without compromising with the haram to some degree. For those who are culturally Muslim, religion has become a liability that takes away more than it gives. Not everyone can handle the pressure of the decline of the Muslim world, and they're looking at alternatives that make them happier and their lives easier.

This would apply moreso to the Muslim diaspora. Not sure how much it would apply to Muslims living inside dar al islam, where by and large it is still easier to be a Muslim than not - even if one sins by breaking rules here and there.

I also think within the diaspora this would likely be more of a factor among more isolated Muslims whereas those living in cities with many Muslims would have an easier time.

[realizm]

Globalization.

[Ayuoobi]

2 hours ago, realizm said:

Globalization.

Ws wr wb

Care to elaborate?

[iraqi_shia]

On 8/31/2018 at 2:38 PM, Ayuoobi said:

I have my own thoughts on this but I wanted to survey the field for your opinions. /discuss 

I often think about this, and interact with Muslims around me, some who have "left".

The number one reason I hear, is that they have a particular understanding of Islam which I find strange, then when they analyse this weird version of Islam, it all comes apart and they reject "islam". They are actually only rejecting their weird understanding of it however. 

 

[Ayuoobi]

6 minutes ago, iraqi_shia said:

I often think about this, and interact with Muslims around me, some who have "left".

The number one reason I hear, is that they have a particular understanding of Islam which I find strange, then when they analyse this weird version of Islam, it all comes apart and they reject "islam". They are actually only rejecting their weird understanding of it however. 

 

What does this "weird understanding" entail?

[realizm]

4 hours ago, Ayuoobi said:

Ws wr wb

Care to elaborate?

«We cannot do this, they can».

«Look how backwards our countries are».

«Darwin theory is taught all over the planet, why should we go against it?»

 

So on...

[Qa'im]

8 hours ago, Ayuoobi said:

This would apply moreso to the Muslim diaspora. Not sure how much it would apply to Muslims living inside dar al islam, where by and large it is still easier to be a Muslim than not - even if one sins by breaking rules here and there.

I also think within the diaspora this would likely be more of a factor among more isolated Muslims whereas those living in cities with many Muslims would have an easier time.

Apostasy is most prominent among the Muslim diaspora, but even in some Muslim countries it is difficult to practice. Try being a conservative, practicing Muslim in Egypt or Syria, Sunni or Shi`a, you'll get spied on, possibly detained or kidnapped or worse. Even in UAE, sites like this are banned. Even Saudi Arabia is cracking down on Salafi shaykhs and mosques that are not overtly loyal to the new crown prince. Turkey had a hijab ban on campuses until fairly recently, and Azerbaijan has banned hijabs in school and niqabs in public. The general poverty and conflict in Muslim countries also discourages people. This doesn't include whatever banking / work-related / marriage-politics that exist in various Muslim countries. In some places it's better to just be non-practicing or even Christian.

[Ayuoobi]

38 minutes ago, Qa'im said:

Apostasy is most prominent among the Muslim diaspora, but even in some Muslim countries it is difficult to practice. Try being a conservative, practicing Muslim in Egypt or Syria, Sunni or Shi`a, you'll get spied on, possibly detained or kidnapped or worse. Even in UAE, sites like this are banned. Even Saudi Arabia is cracking down on Salafi shaykhs and mosques that are not overtly loyal to the new crown prince. Turkey had a hijab ban on campuses until fairly recently, and Azerbaijan has banned hijabs in school and niqabs in public. The general poverty and conflict in Muslim countries also discourages people. This doesn't include whatever banking / work-related / marriage-politics that exist in various Muslim countries. In some places it's better to just be non-practicing or even Christian.

None of what you described are the kinds of pressures which cause apostacy. In fact quite the opposite they radicalize Muslims in Muslim countries to become more politically involved and revolutionary minded.

 

[Qa'im]

21 minutes ago, Ayuoobi said:

None of what you described are the kinds of pressures which cause apostacy. In fact quite the opposite they radicalize Muslims in Muslim countries to become more politically involved and revolutionary minded.

People react differently to social pressures brother. It can definitely cause rebellion, but it can also cause people to drop the burden (religious practice in this case). Egypt today is a prime example of this.

[Ibn al-Hussain]

41 minutes ago, Qa'im said:

People react differently to social pressures brother. It can definitely cause rebellion, but it can also cause people to drop the burden (religious practice in this case). Egypt today is a prime example of this.

I would also add Pakistan to the list - especially the young generation.

Wasalam

[King]

Ignorance goes both ways.  One can argue a lot of people stay muslim because of ignorance, if they actually were exposed to real islamic teachings they could be more reluctant to accept them.  Almost every muslim who has actually studied Islam in some depth agrees that the vast majority of muslims are presented a sugar coated version of the religion by their parents.

[Sayyed_Splinter]

I think that because of the expansion of secularism and its strong propaganda that influences us even without knowing it, we have need always prayed, read the Quran, and a deep love for Ahlul Bayt.
Allahuma sali 3ala Muhammad wa alih attaybeen attahireen wa ajeel farajahum 

[Ayuoobi]

3 hours ago, Qa'im said:

People react differently to social pressures brother. It can definitely cause rebellion, but it can also cause people to drop the burden (religious practice in this case). Egypt today is a prime example of this.

Yeah just not seeing it. Muslims survived Ataturk and Reza Shah and the hard pressures now are not even 10% of that. Its certainly not enough to lead to apostacy - maybe reduce practice at best but i think thats a multivariate complex phenomenon.

[iraqi_shia]

On 9/2/2018 at 8:59 AM, Ayuoobi said:

What does this "weird understanding" entail?

I know ofsomeone who was having marital problems. So they went to a "peer", and purchased his best Islamic "marriage fixing" charm, and it strangely had no effect on their marriage. 

She now has concluded that Islam simply doesnt work, she has tested its best lucky charm, and it did not fix her marriage, therefore Islam is false.

[Qa'im]

11 minutes ago, Ayuoobi said:

Yeah just not seeing it. Muslims survived Ataturk and Reza Shah and the hard pressures now are not even 10% of that. Its certainly not enough to lead to apostacy - maybe reduce practice at best but i think thats a multivariate complex phenomenon.

Ataturk and the Shah caused many people to apostate, not just because their ideology was “attractive”, but because they clamped down on Islamic institutions. Secular Arab dictators similarly made sure that the least educated students went to sharia school, which has a devastating affect on the quality of Sunni scholarship. Notice how most of the biggest Sunni scholars of the past few decades came from the periphery of the Sunni world - Yemen, Mauritania, sub-Saharan Africa, India - while most of the scholars of the Mideast are basically pundits, political hacks, state muftis. 

By the way, I’m not saying persecution is the only factor leading to apostasy, nor am I saying it is the main factor - but we can’t underestimate the role socio-political mobility plays in this. Islam spread most during centuries where it was economically, scientifically, and military superior to other systems - there was a promise of prosperity and safety (hence “dar al salaam”) which much of the Muslim world doesn’t have anymore.

In places like Egypt, the “islamophobia” is arguably worse than it is in the West. It takes on a different form of course, but thousands of mosques have been shut down, and without easy access to religion, the quality of faith of some people declines.

I agree that this sometimes creates the opposite intended effect, and the AKP and IRI are examples of that, but Turkey and Iran have not fully recovered from Ataturk and Shah, and it’s likely they never will in the foreseeable future.

[rkazmi33]

Don't we have a lot of hadiths which state that it will be extremely difficult to remain a Muslim in the Ends of Times? I also feel that Sufyani is coming because a lot of people are becoming religious. I was the most religious person in my family few years ago and now I am the least religious person. People are becoming religious but they are doing so much zulm in the name of religion. Most of them are hypocrites who impose rules on other people and punish people for their sins while they themselves don't follow rules. I have developed resentment for religion and I miss the days when my family did not consist of fanatics. I sometimes wish all of them become irreligious again. People are always demanding sacrifices in the name of religion. Also, I believe that magic is becoming more common, due to which many evil people have super powers. I see evil people with so much power and I think why doesn't God give me all these powers? 

On 9/2/2018 at 3:43 PM, iraqi_shia said:

I know ofsomeone who was having marital problems. So they went to a "peer", and purchased his best Islamic "marriage fixing" charm, and it strangely had no effect on their marriage. 

She now has concluded that Islam simply doesnt work, she has tested its best lucky charm, and it did not fix her marriage, therefore Islam is false.

I can totally understand her. I had to try so hard to get divorce, still that person is not out of my life and people still tell me that it's your fate and you have to accept it. That's why I became distant from religion. You will not understand her now, but I am sure at some point in your life, you will be tested also. Then you will understand her. 

[Ayuoobi]

On 9/2/2018 at 3:43 PM, iraqi_shia said:

I know ofsomeone who was having marital problems. So they went to a "peer", and purchased his best Islamic "marriage fixing" charm, and it strangely had no effect on their marriage. 

She now has concluded that Islam simply doesnt work, she has tested its best lucky charm, and it did not fix her marriage, therefore Islam is false.

Yeah thats whack 

[Ayuoobi]

4 minutes ago, Qa'im said:

Ataturk and the Shah caused many people to apostate, not just because their ideology was “attractive”, but because they clamped down on Islamic institutions. Secular Arab dictators similarly made sure that the least educated students went to sharia school, which has a devastating affect on the quality of Sunni scholarship. Notice how most of the biggest Sunni scholars of the past few decades came from the periphery of the Sunni world - Yemen, Mauritania, sub-Saharan Africa, India - while most of the scholars of the Mideast are basically pundits, political hacks, state muftis. 

By the way, I’m not saying persecution is the only factor leading to apostasy, nor am I saying it is the main factor - but we can’t underestimate the role socio-political mobility plays in this. Islam spread most during centuries where it was economically, scientifically, and military superior to other systems - there was a promise of prosperity and safety (hence “dar al salaam”) which much of the Muslim world doesn’t have anymore.

In places like Egypt, the “islamophobia” is arguably worse than it is in the West. It takes on a different form of course, but thousands of mosques have been shut down, and without easy access to religion, the quality of faith of some people declines.

I agree that this sometimes creates the opposite intended effect, and the AKP and IRI are examples of that, but Turkey and Iran have not fully recovered from Ataturk and Shah, and it’s likely they never will in the foreseeable future.

I agree with most of this. The part i disagreed with was that its harder to be a practicing Muslim in Muslim majority countries. Its simply not. In a Muslim majority country everything takes into account a sizeable religious population. There are mosques everywhere, you get fridays off, everything is halal, even in the most immodest areas modesty still prevails compared to the West, nothing interferes with prayer times, you dont lose ur job, etc etc. The overall situation for ppl in Muslim countries is harder because of the socio political climate but there are generally speaking few obstructions to practicing the faith and quite the opposite much to aid it.

Look theres a reason why the hukm al awali for hijrah to dar al kufr is that its haraam minus for purposes of business etc.

[iraqi_shia]

On 9/2/2018 at 4:00 PM, rkazmi33 said:

I can totally understand her. I had to try so hard to get divorce, still that person is not out of my life and people still tell me that it's your fate and you have to accept it. That's why I became distant from religion. You will not understand her now, but I am sure at some point in your life, you will be tested also. Then you will understand her. 

I get it that when we are desperate and emotional we may not be thinking straight, however, this is a bit more than that.

If your religious beliefs are built on nonsense, at some point its all going to come crashing down. The question Im raising is this, is that because of the religion or the nonsense that had been constructed as a religion in their mind?

At a time where everything is rationalised and scrutinised to such a degree, our understanding of the religion has to be perfect, or it all just falls apart.

[Qa'im]

Relevant from Yaqeen Institute