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As-Salām Alaykum,

as I have been telling it before - I' am an aspiring Shia, but, still, there are a few serious issues.

I have had several discussions on Facebook lately, and also from my previous 'general' impression - it appears, there is no discipline, no unity, no strong community feeling, a big laxity and ambitions;

from what I gather:

1) about Marjas - Shias say - it doesn't matter, we do as we ourselves find it right or as we wish;

2) about Hijab wearing - Ohh, it's only between Me and God, nobody can require it.....in Religion there is no compulsion.... and other excuses......and the same thing about many, many other things and questions.....

- Friends, on my scale - those things mean Disbelief and Kufr!

I am not in Religion - "between me and God", or as I myself believe or not,  - but in Religion - to Submit myself for the community interests, and to work for Community, to spread Religion for benefit of whole community, to fight for all community..... and this is what I naturally would expect from anybody who is a wittness of a faith.... if they chose disbelief - then only it is between them and God..... But if they choose to be in a Team - I expect a Teamwork.....

With such an attitude - one cannot take on the job and duty of Religion - and work every day as a Horse - for the benefit of all Community - while the most of Community is sleeping in their holes and doesn't care..... some go to war for a duty, others are running to Europe and Americas and telling - Sorry, it is between Me and God only; Nope, you must go on and fight for all; even if you are a female or old or sick or far from war - each one is fighting and working in their own place... it is not anybodies "private matter"....

as an old saying of Soviet Army says:  "If can not - we will teach you, if you don't wish - we will force you...."

May be I am disgusted, but I think Community-wise - to Sunnis I wwould trust much better; even for the the most crooked Sunni - those are sacred things - the Community and a Duty.

How can somebody convert to Shia - if Shias themselves are cursing their Marjas?!

In Sunni way - I think, if some shot me, there will be a thousand to replace me. With Shias - I cannot get that feeling....

Edited by ShiaChat Mod
Name of title was changed.

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 if Shias themselves are cursing their Marjas?

You are on the internet- A Virtual World.

It could be any one behind a "Virtual screen name(s)", or " Site(s)". With a motive to divide and conquer or give an impression that these are a divided people. Enemy can work in many ways. They can manufacture a crisis or a problem or an impression of a crisis/problem. 

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1 hour ago, zambala said:

As-Salām Alaykum,

as I have been telling it before - I' am an aspiring Shia, but, still, there are a few serious issues.

Wa alai kum salaam.

There is no such thing as an aspiring shia. You can just as well come here and say, "you have issues with shias"

1 hour ago, zambala said:

I have had several discussions on Facebook lately, and also from my previous 'general' impression - it appears, there is no discipline, no unity, no strong community feeling, a big laxity and ambitions;

No discipline? No unity?

25+ million gather in karbala every year and shout "Labaik Ya Hussain"? 

Only shias commemorate "Yaum Al-Quds" and sunnis attack those rallies. When was the last time sunnis rallied for the Palestinians who happen to to be 99% sunni?

1 hour ago, zambala said:

from what I gather:

1) about Marjas - Shias say - it doesn't matter, we do as we ourselves find it right or as we wish;

2) about Hijab wearing - Ohh, it's only between Me and God, nobody can require it.....in Religion there is no compulsion.... and other excuses......and the same thing about many, many other things and questions.....

1) not really; Usooli shias follow a marja.

2) unless 100% sunni women wear the Hijab, this is an absolutely stupid statement to make.

1 hour ago, zambala said:

- Friends, on my scale - those things mean Disbelief and Kufr!

I am not in Religion - "between me and God", or as I myself believe or not,  - but in Religion - to Submit myself for the community interests, and to work for Community, to spread Religion for benefit of whole community, to fight for all community..... and this is what I naturally would expect from anybody who is a wittness of a faith.... if they chose disbelief - then only it is between them and God..... But if they choose to be in a Team - I expect a Teamwork.....

With such an attitude - one cannot take on the job and duty of Religion - and work every day as a Horse - for the benefit of all Community - while the most of Community is sleeping in their holes and doesn't care..... some go to war for a duty, others are running to Europe and Americas and telling - Sorry, it is between Me and God only; Nope, you must go on and fight for all; even if you are a female or old or sick or far from war - each one is fighting and working in their own place... it is not anybodies "private matter"....

as an old saying of Soviet Army says:  "If can not - we will teach you, if you don't wish - we will force you...."

May be I am disgusted, but I think Community-wise - to Sunnis I wwould trust much better; even for the the most crooked Sunni - those are sacred things - the Community and a Duty.

How can somebody convert to Shia - if Shias themselves are cursing their Marjas?!

In Sunni way - I think, if some shot me, there will be a thousand to replace me. With Shias - I cannot get that feeling....

Newsflash - people are converting to shia islam aka true Islam every day. When was the last time all sunnis United for any cause? You can't even get prominent sunni scholars to condemn terrorism.

Of course, as a Sunni you would give reference to violence and terrorism. Don't worry, no shia will shoot you.

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1 hour ago, zambala said:

As-Salām Alaykum,

as I have been telling it before - I' am an aspiring Shia, but, still, there are a few serious issues.

I have had several discussions on Facebook lately, and also from my previous 'general' impression - it appears, there is no discipline, no unity, no strong community feeling, a big laxity and ambitions;

from what I gather:

1) about Marjas - Shias say - it doesn't matter, we do as we ourselves find it right or as we wish;

2) about Hijab wearing - Ohh, it's only between Me and God, nobody can require it.....in Religion there is no compulsion.... and other excuses......and the same thing about many, many other things and questions.....

- Friends, on my scale - those things mean Disbelief and Kufr!

I am not in Religion - "between me and God", or as I myself believe or not,  - but in Religion - to Submit myself for the community interests, and to work for Community, to spread Religion for benefit of whole community, to fight for all community..... and this is what I naturally would expect from anybody who is a wittness of a faith.... if they chose disbelief - then only it is between them and God..... But if they choose to be in a Team - I expect a Teamwork.....

With such an attitude - one cannot take on the job and duty of Religion - and work every day as a Horse - for the benefit of all Community - while the most of Community is sleeping in their holes and doesn't care..... some go to war for a duty, others are running to Europe and Americas and telling - Sorry, it is between Me and God only; Nope, you must go on and fight for all; even if you are a female or old or sick or far from war - each one is fighting and working in their own place... it is not anybodies "private matter"....

as an old saying of Soviet Army says:  "If can not - we will teach you, if you don't wish - we will force you...."

May be I am disgusted, but I think Community-wise - to Sunnis I wwould trust much better; even for the the most crooked Sunni - those are sacred things - the Community and a Duty.

How can somebody convert to Shia - if Shias themselves are cursing their Marjas?!

In Sunni way - I think, if some shot me, there will be a thousand to replace me. With Shias - I cannot get that feeling....

Well turning to facebook probably isnt the best way to learn about God.

If you ask people on facebook about investing your money, did you accept their answers?

 

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about Hijab wearing - Ohh, it's only between Me and God, nobody can require it.....in Religion there is no compulsion.... and other excuses......and the same thing about many, many other things and questions.....

 

I am going to only focus on the media and its campaign against the " Hijab".  Who is behind it / and financing it is a different topic. They have figured out the insecurity and image conscious attitude, of the Muslims and they are milking it. Muslims have an improper understanding of the slogan "Freedom" some what be be more liberal/secular and westerner than the actual liberal/secular and western people. Again its stems from their inferiority complex and their zeal to be accepted as equals. Some how they assign this " Status" to secular ideas. They are seeing them as a Standard to live up to or follow. 

Back of their mind, in most cases is - What will they(Westners/Secular/Liberals) say about us. If they see us do this or believe this or etc...its the modern day idol worshiping. 

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1 hour ago, S.M.H.A. said:

You are not joining a country club or a fraternity. The whole world could turn godless, why would this matter to you, in terms of you recognizing and testifying to the Truth?

Yes, I am joining Fraternity, I have been in many religions, in Buddhism, In Hinduism for 20 years...... I could find the Truth - in every religion.....

The only thing I missed in Hinduism - was strict rules, so nobody would make their own reules or understanding - but I had people to share my spiritual heritage with, this is indeed my most important point.....

You know - Hinduism - some think it is religion, others say - it is not a religion, some believe in Vishnu, some in Shiva, some something other, others don't practice religion at all....

Religion - is always a Religion;

but I aam looking for Fraternity and the method to shape the society in a better way, so they can not say - It is not a religion or something like this..

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I don't care what we set as a Truth, the main point is - to Change the Whole Society after that better Truth;

I personally have been in prayers, meditations, reading for 20-30 years, and I never have been a liberal or free thinker;

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14 minutes ago, S.M.H.A. said:

Everything you described is geared towards a personal relationship with the God. 

In you opinion, who has been the most successful social scientist? in transforming a society at all levels-(personal, family, community, state). 

From my own experience - probably I would say Lenin & Stalin, except may be unnecessary bloodie repressions; Social Change should come through Holy , Perfect People, en mass;

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At personal, family, community and State level. ( what you would call Religion and Secular). 

Religion is a way of life. (Everything you do)

Quote

My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels.

....

We see, then, that the Arab conquests of the seventh century have continued to play an important role in human history, down to the present day. It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history.

http://www.iupui.edu/~msaiupui/thetop100.html?id=61

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5 minutes ago, S.M.H.A. said:

My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels.

Of course, religiously we may believe in it. Though, I've never been in any real Muslim country, I've never been outside Europe, so I would appreciate also Shariah Patrols in London, an obvious Sunni initiative, and I know - many Shias would call it "a judging others" or an "oppression"

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Of course, religiously we may believe in it.

I used the word Social Scientist. People you mentioned above were transient figures there have been many like them. 

Here is the last one, 

Al-Imam al-Mahdi, The Just Leader of Humanity

https://www.al-islam.org/al-imam-al-mahdi-just-leader-humanity-ayatullah-ibrahim-amini

 

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4 hours ago, zambala said:

) about Marjas - Shias say - it doesn't matter, we do as we ourselves find it right or as we wish;

What's the point of marjas then? We all follow our marjas because they are more knowledgeable than us. I haven't met a Shia Muslim who disregards their Marja's rulings. 

 

4 hours ago, zambala said:

about Hijab wearing - Ohh, it's only between Me and God, 

Hijab like any other Islamic practice is only between a Muslim and his Lord. We are all only accountable by God, we don't answer to anyone else. If anything, it's the sunni influencers on YouTube who have brought in the style of wearing the turban and showing more skin etc. I'm not blaming sunni Muslims for that, but it does put everything in perspective for you.

4 hours ago, zambala said:

am not in Religion - "between me and God", or as I myself believe or not,  - but in Religion - to Submit myself for the community interests, and to work for Community, to spread Religion for benefit of whole community, to fight for all community..... and this is what I naturally would expect from anybody who is a wittness of a faith.... if they chose disbelief - then only it is between them and God..... But if they choose to be in a Team - I expect a Teamwork.....

Since when was religion about pleasing the community and it's interests? Is that what the Prophet (pbuh) did? Or is that what imam hussein and imam ali (as) did? Well, in the west, the wider community wants me to take off the hijab and go to nightclubs and form many relationships before I get married. Do you suggest I do that? Because Islam is about submitting yourself to the community interest? Islam is about submitting yourself to God. End of. You shouldn't care about submitting yourself to the community. Submitting yourself to God will immediately make you a teamworker and make you a contributing member to society. Not the other way round. 

 

4 hours ago, zambala said:

With such an attitude - one cannot take on the job and duty of Religion - and work every day as a Horse - for the benefit of all Community - while the most of Community is sleeping in their holes and doesn't care..... some go to war for a duty, others are running to Europe and Americas and telling - Sorry, it is between Me and God only; Nope, you must go on and fight for all; even if you are a female or old or sick or far from war - each one is fighting and working in their own place... it is not anybodies "private matter"....

No idea what you mean. But again, at the end of the day, you are only accountable to Allah. 

4 hours ago, zambala said:

How can somebody convert to Shia - if Shias themselves are cursing their Marjas?!

In Sunni way - I think, if some shot me, there will be a thousand to replace me. With Shias - I cannot get that feeling....

Is that honestly the only thing stopping you from converting to shiasm? Once again, you're generalizing. Not many shias at all curse their marjas. And, those who do are radical. There are radicals in every group of people. Its no surprise that there are radical shias. 

With shias, I feel a huge sense of unity and oneness. Especially in muharram. We all gather to commemorate the loss of our imam. We go on peaceful marches to educate and inform people who don't know about imam hussein. We cook for eachother, we house strangers in our homes...go look at Iraq in muharram and arba3een. Tell me you find that hospitality with any other sect.

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Just gonna echo some thoughts of above posts,

7 hours ago, zambala said:

1) about Marjas - Shias say - it doesn't matter, we do as we ourselves find it right or as we wish;

 

So? your concern is truth, i.e. Quran & Ahlulbayt (a.s). If you recognize Imam Ali (a.s) as the rightful successor to the Prophet (pbuhf), and you believe and take the teaching of ahlulbayt (a.s), sorry to inform you but you're already Shia whether you like the community or not.

However if you recognize the above as truth and you adopt the practices contrary to that truth just to feel better about yourself and/or please others, then may Allah forgive us and make us of the righteous.

7 hours ago, zambala said:

 2) about Hijab wearing - Ohh, it's only between Me and God, nobody can require it.....in Religion there is no compulsion.... and other excuses......and the same thing about many, many other things and questions.....

 

It is between them and God. Some people may be struggling and feeling regretful about it everyday, others might feel terrible about it in the future - you don't know how they feel, what their struggle is, nor do you know whether or not Allah will forgive them for not wearing hijab. Focus on yourself and your shortcomings.

That's all I wanted to say.

 

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4 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

Since when was religion about pleasing the community and it's interests? Is that what the Prophet (pbuh) did? Or is that what imam hussein and imam ali (as) did? Well, in the west, the wider community wants me to take off the hijab and go to nightclubs and form many relationships before I get married. Do you suggest I do that? Because Islam is about submitting yourself to the community interest? Islam is about submitting yourself to God. End of. You shouldn't care about submitting yourself to the community. Submitting yourself to God will immediately make you a teamworker and make you a contributing member to society. Not the other way round. 

 

No idea what you mean. But again, at the end of the day, you are only accountable to Allah. 

Is that honestly the only thing stopping you from converting to shiasm? Once again, you're generalizing. Not many shias at all curse their marjas. And, those who do are radical. There are radicals in every group of people. Its no surprise that there are radical shias.

You did misunderstood many parts of what I said....

I'm not going "to please" community in the way you mean, but in the sense of sharing & teaching religion, visiting religious meetings and such, working for my religious website, translating and publishing texts, even praying is done for the community - to bring the Global Change and Revolution;

Just sometimes it seems - nobody cares for that, may be I am doing for myself only?!

No, I am happy without all extra worries, at my home, without working for public interest; Ohh, well, I am born with this, I've never seen another life, and still... I could as well do like many, just enjoy a life and do nothing for the revolution....

About Marjas.....

I was doing research about Cursing many do - and I brought them Ruling by Ayatullahs https://www.al-islam.org/mutual-respect-peaceful-co-existence-among-muslim/2-abusing-insulting-leaders-sunni-madhhab

- which basically says - Cursing is condemned by Authorities..... but they all still do and enjoy it......

- I am not allowed to curse , whatever it would be...... I was 20 years ago practicing Buddhism - I have given a Vow to my Teacher - to always work for the benefit and saving of all beings without any exception, I have never been cursing anybody and I will not, so - for me to accept something - all such Hate, Black Magick, etc should be excluded...... You are free to criticize reasonably or declare an eror, but for me personally Cursing is completely forbidden due to a Vow, and it cannot be changed.....and also I think it's a form of black magick too....I know, witches do this....

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11 hours ago, zambala said:

As-Salām Alaykum,

as I have been telling it before - I' am an aspiring Shia, but, still, there are a few serious issues.

I have had several discussions on Facebook lately, and also from my previous 'general' impression - it appears, there is no discipline, no unity, no strong community feeling, a big laxity and ambitions;

I am not in Religion - "between me and God", or as I myself believe or not,  - but in Religion - to Submit myself for the community interests, and to work for Community, to spread Religion for benefit of whole community, to fight for all community..... and this is what I naturally would expect from anybody who is a wittness of a faith.... if they chose disbelief - then only it is between them and God..... But if they choose to be in a Team - I expect a Teamwork.....

With such an attitude - one cannot take on the job and duty of Religion - and work every day as a Horse - for the benefit of all Community - while the most of Community is sleeping in their holes and doesn't care..... some go to war for a duty, others are running to Europe and Americas and telling - Sorry, it is between Me and God only; Nope, you must go on and fight for all; even if you are a female or old or sick or far from war - each one is fighting and working in their own place... it is not anybodies "private matter"...

Salam,

Whether you are alone in Amazon jungle or in New York city, the feeling of unity with the real community  should be there.

When you say Allahu Akbar in prayer, you should feel connected to from Adam (as) to Muhammad (SAW), Ahlulbayt, all the mukminin and oppressed people from the past to current state.  If you feel connected to Imam Mahdi (AS), you are connect to all oppressed people in the world and you are fully aware about the current enemies of Islam.... and Automatically you will know what roles you should play in your daily life because now you know and aware about the real community.

The real community is unseen, but it is there and exist.  The binding factor is believe in Imamate and Imam Mahdi.  If you want to feel the community of oppressed people from beginning of the humanity to end of the world...try reading ziarat Imam Hussain (as). Your heart will bleed and your will feel the pain of the oppressed people in the world.

Again, The real community is unseen.  This community is where all the mukminin are residing and submitting to Rabbil aalamin, lead by Imam Mahdi(as).

The first Takbir in your prayer is a sign that you are in the community.  Many don't realize it. And ending the prayer by giving salam to Prophet, His Ahlulbayt and those mukminin that follow them.

Layman.

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12 hours ago, zambala said:

You did misunderstood many parts of what I said....

I'm not going "to please" community in the way you mean, but in the sense of sharing & teaching religion, visiting religious meetings and such, working for my religious website, translating and publishing texts, even praying is done for the community - to bring the Global Change and Revolution;

Just sometimes it seems - nobody cares for that, may be I am doing for myself only?!

No, I am happy without all extra worries, at my home, without working for public interest; Ohh, well, I am born with this, I've never seen another life, and still... I could as well do like many, just enjoy a life and do nothing for the revolution....

About Marjas.....

I was doing research about Cursing many do - and I brought them Ruling by Ayatullahs https://www.al-islam.org/mutual-respect-peaceful-co-existence-among-muslim/2-abusing-insulting-leaders-sunni-madhhab

- which basically says - Cursing is condemned by Authorities..... but they all still do and enjoy it......

- I am not allowed to curse , whatever it would be...... I was 20 years ago practicing Buddhism - I have given a Vow to my Teacher - to always work for the benefit and saving of all beings without any exception, I have never been cursing anybody and I will not, so - for me to accept something - all such Hate, Black Magick, etc should be excluded...... You are free to criticize reasonably or declare an eror, but for me personally Cursing is completely forbidden due to a Vow, and it cannot be changed.....and also I think it's a form of black magick too....I know, witches do this....

I am honestly so lost by what you're saying. What on earth is the revolution? And are you saying that cursing is a form of black magic or witchcraft? How did you reach such a conclusion??

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Salam @zambala  if you like you can visit http://www.mihwar.ru/  that is a good shia site in Russian , sister Anastasia Fatima Ezhova

is a Russian that converted to shia Islam 

here is so,e articles that written by her 

https://ahtribune.com/world/north-africa-south-west-asia/islamic-revolution/1653-mahdawiyyat.html

 

https://ahtribune.com/author.html?id=984

 

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100025603029725

 

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I am not allowed to curse , whatever it would be

فَإِذَا قَرَأْتَ الْقُرْآنَ فَاسْتَعِذْ بِاللَّهِ مِنَ الشَّيْطَانِ الرَّجِيمِ {98}

[Shakir 16:98] So when you recite the Quran, seek refuge with Allah from the accursed Shaitan,
[Pickthal 16:98] And when thou recitest the Qur'an, seek refuge in Allah from Satan the outcast.
[Yusufali 16:98] When thou dost read the Qur'an, seek Allah's protection from Satan the rejected one.

*****

وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ اسْجُدُوا لِآدَمَ فَسَجَدُوا إِلَّا إِبْلِيسَ أَبَىٰ وَاسْتَكْبَرَ وَكَانَ مِنَ الْكَافِرِينَ {34}

[Shakir 2:34] And when We said to the angels: Make obeisance to Adam they did obeisance, but Iblis (did it not). He refused and he was proud, and he was one of the unbelievers.
[Pickthal 2:34] And when We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever.
[Yusufali 2:34] And behold, We said to the angels: "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith.

*****

"khawarij and Nawasib (i.e. those who are enemies of the holy Imams) are also impure."

https://www.al-islam.org/islamic-laws-ayatullah-abul-qasim-al-khui/impure-things-najasat#infidel

Check the ruling of any current Jurists/Merja/Ayatollah who has a Islamic Law book. 

*****

You can not say You are with the Truth and not dislike Evil. There is no space to be agnostic  here. You can't love the oppressor and the oppressed. Its not logical. 

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 I have given a Vow to my Teacher - to always work for the benefit and saving of all beings without any exception,

Benefit of ALL people/Society/Community means that you alert ALL of the dangers posed by robbers, drug dealers, thieves, crooks, manipulators, oppressors, and you work to ride the community of this evil. When a Judge sentences a drug dealer, he is actually showing a kind of Mercy to the community. 

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On 8/28/2018 at 10:11 AM, zambala said:

From my own experience - probably I would say Lenin & Stalin, except may be unnecessary bloodie repressions; Social Change should come through Holy , Perfect People, en mass;

You need to form a new model red army 

If discipline is what you crave 

Shias may not be the goose stepping obedient and ignorant masses as ulema want but that's precisely why they have always risen up against tyrants 

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On 8/28/2018 at 12:58 PM, zambala said:

As-Salām Alaykum,

as I have been telling it before - I' am an aspiring Shia, but, still, there are a few serious issues.

I have had several discussions on Facebook lately, and also from my previous 'general' impression - it appears, there is no discipline, no unity, no strong community feeling, a big laxity and ambitions;

from what I gather:

1) about Marjas - Shias say - it doesn't matter, we do as we ourselves find it right or as we wish;

2) about Hijab wearing - Ohh, it's only between Me and God, nobody can require it.....in Religion there is no compulsion.... and other excuses......and the same thing about many, many other things and questions.....

- Friends, on my scale - those things mean Disbelief and Kufr!

I am not in Religion - "between me and God", or as I myself believe or not,  - but in Religion - to Submit myself for the community interests, and to work for Community, to spread Religion for benefit of whole community, to fight for all community..... and this is what I naturally would expect from anybody who is a wittness of a faith.... if they chose disbelief - then only it is between them and God..... But if they choose to be in a Team - I expect a Teamwork.....

With such an attitude - one cannot take on the job and duty of Religion - and work every day as a Horse - for the benefit of all Community - while the most of Community is sleeping in their holes and doesn't care..... some go to war for a duty, others are running to Europe and Americas and telling - Sorry, it is between Me and God only; Nope, you must go on and fight for all; even if you are a female or old or sick or far from war - each one is fighting and working in their own place... it is not anybodies "private matter"....

as an old saying of Soviet Army says:  "If can not - we will teach you, if you don't wish - we will force you...."

May be I am disgusted, but I think Community-wise - to Sunnis I wwould trust much better; even for the the most crooked Sunni - those are sacred things - the Community and a Duty.

How can somebody convert to Shia - if Shias themselves are cursing their Marjas?!

In Sunni way - I think, if some shot me, there will be a thousand to replace me. With Shias - I cannot get that feeling....

Are trying to follow Shiaism by looking at people opinions and life styles or by looking at the Prophet SAW and Imams A.S

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