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zambala

Can not Trust you

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On 8/28/2018 at 7:58 AM, zambala said:

As-Salām Alaykum,

as I have been telling it before - I' am an aspiring Shia, but, still, there are a few serious issues.

I have had several discussions on Facebook lately, and also from my previous 'general' impression - it appears, there is no discipline, no unity, no strong community feeling, a big laxity and ambitions;

from what I gather:

1) about Marjas - Shias say - it doesn't matter, we do as we ourselves find it right or as we wish;

2) about Hijab wearing - Ohh, it's only between Me and God, nobody can require it.....in Religion there is no compulsion.... and other excuses......and the same thing about many, many other things and questions.....

- Friends, on my scale - those things mean Disbelief and Kufr!

I am not in Religion - "between me and God", or as I myself believe or not,  - but in Religion - to Submit myself for the community interests, and to work for Community, to spread Religion for benefit of whole community, to fight for all community..... and this is what I naturally would expect from anybody who is a wittness of a faith.... if they chose disbelief - then only it is between them and God..... But if they choose to be in a Team - I expect a Teamwork.....

With such an attitude - one cannot take on the job and duty of Religion - and work every day as a Horse - for the benefit of all Community - while the most of Community is sleeping in their holes and doesn't care..... some go to war for a duty, others are running to Europe and Americas and telling - Sorry, it is between Me and God only; Nope, you must go on and fight for all; even if you are a female or old or sick or far from war - each one is fighting and working in their own place... it is not anybodies "private matter"....

as an old saying of Soviet Army says:  "If can not - we will teach you, if you don't wish - we will force you...."

May be I am disgusted, but I think Community-wise - to Sunnis I wwould trust much better; even for the the most crooked Sunni - those are sacred things - the Community and a Duty.

How can somebody convert to Shia - if Shias themselves are cursing their Marjas?!

In Sunni way - I think, if some shot me, there will be a thousand to replace me. With Shias - I cannot get that feeling....

Disobedience is not the same as Disbelief or Kufr.

لَّيْسَ الْبِرَّ أَنْ تُوَلُّوا وُجُوهَكُمْ قِبَلَ الْمَشْرِقِ وَالْمَغْرِبِ وَلٰكِنَّ الْبِرَّ مَنْ ءَامَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْأَاخِرِ وَالْمَلٰٓئِكَةِ وَالْكِتٰبِ وَالنَّبِيِّۦنَ وَءَاتَى الْمَالَ عَلٰى حُبِّهِۦ ذَوِى الْقُرْبٰى وَالْيَتٰمٰى وَالْمَسٰكِينَ وَابْنَ السَّبِيلِ وَالسَّآئِلِينَ وَفِى الرِّقَابِ وَأَقَامَ الصَّلٰوةَ وَءَاتَى الزَّكٰوةَ وَالْمُوفُونَ بِعَهْدِهِمْ إِذَا عٰهَدُوا  ۖ  وَالصّٰبِرِينَ فِى الْبَأْسَآءِ وَالضَّرَّآءِ وَحِينَ الْبَأْسِ  ۗ  أُولٰٓئِكَ الَّذِينَ صَدَقُوا  ۖ  وَأُولٰٓئِكَ هُمُ الْمُتَّقُونَ
"Righteousness is not that you turn your faces toward the east or the west, but [true] righteousness is [in] one who believes in Allah, the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the prophets and gives wealth, in spite of love for it, to relatives, orphans, the needy, the traveler, those who ask [for help], and for freeing slaves; [and who] establishes prayer and gives zakah; [those who] fulfill their promise when they promise; and [those who] are patient in poverty and hardship and during battle. Those are the ones who have been true, and it is those who are the righteous."
(QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 177)

Maybe within these Shia people you're missing the part that they can have varying beliefs  from within each other and still be united ?

Unlike the Sunni world whose path led Islam followers into the pathetic state it's in now,

You speak of cursing marjas, hijab wearing, and then say it's wrong and kufr.

I find alot of disturbing things in some shias, just as I do Sunnis behavior but they're consistent in some very important things, like unity with each other . 

Your generalized blanket comparison Is also inconsistent because I'll find similar proportions of sunni women not wearing hijab or cursing (denouncing) other sunni religious influencers/leaders/scholars . 

Unity outside of that would be great, can't say the same of sunnis.

You want to call a Muslim who may very will be willing to participate in a battle to defend their brethren, a  kafir on those basis alone ?

On top of all that, you don't pick a beleif standard based on the people who follow it, you should pick it because YOU resonate with it.

So I don't get you.

 

Edited by wmehar2

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Quran 3:7.

*****

وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ اسْجُدُوا لِآدَمَ فَسَجَدُوا إِلَّا إِبْلِيسَ أَبَىٰ وَاسْتَكْبَرَ وَكَانَ مِنَ الْكَافِرِينَ {34}

[Pickthal 2:34] And when We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever.

*****
"So, Iblis had neither any defect in the principle of belief in Allah’s being the Creator, or in belief in Allah’s Lordship in creation and nor in belief in ma’ad. But still he falls so much! Why? Because he does not believe in Allah’s Lordship in Law-giving (Divine legislation) and docs not regard Allah’s command to be obeyed unquestionably, unless Allah’s command would be consistent with (Ibis’s) own thought and desire." 2

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235034818-a-dialogue-on-your-understanding-of-shirk/?tab=comments#comment-2879294

*****

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْكُمْ ۖ فَإِنْ تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلًا {59}

[Pickthal 4:59] O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end.

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3 hours ago, zambala said:

but many of your given examples sound somewhat starnge:

 

Salam Most of them are from old members that are no longer active , I just gave it for having better viewpoint ,in shia Islam listening to music & playing video games are not haram until it’s not for Haram gathering & entertainment, the musician of new movie about prophet Muhammad (pbu) is a Sufi Muslim from India (Mr AR Rahman )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad:_The_Messenger_of_God_(film)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._R._Rahman

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235045198-muhammad-the-messenger-of-god-film-2015/?page=5

also producing video games based on Islamic values initiated by Shia countries like as Iran & groups like as Hezbollah but still needs great effort to reach their video games to a good level currently we can this video games at early years after born .

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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1 hour ago, wmehar2 said:

You want to call a Muslim who may very will be willing to participate in a battle to defend their brethren, a  kafir on those basis alone ?

On top of all that, you don't pick a beleif standard based on the people who follow it, you should pick it because YOU resonate with it.

So I don't get you.

That's sad indeed, you do not understand, and  I had difficulties to understand you too, due to your poor English.

Yes, we are in the Battle every day - and Wherever we are;

We are in the battle with ourselves - to become close with God and perfect inside; and to inspire all the world to become Perfect Saints;

Yes, enertainment Music IS Haram, both in all Sunni Madhabs and in Shia Ayatollah's teachings; there may be a discussion about strictly Spiritual, Religious, Non-Entertainment music, and there again are many Haram instruments and a few questionable;

Videogames - also Should be Haram - because they are Useless Entertainment, taking away your precious Time from God and from Prayers and Dhikr, from serving your family and community....

And - this is Battle again - all believers should be United - to teach the good and forbid the evil - to Unbelievers and to those "Cultural" believers.... all Umma should stand as One for this and much more....for our Future, for the World's future.... It cannot be - that I spend all my time for this, and others do not care; If they do not care or do not understand what should be understood - they are like Unbelievers; Their belief is of no importance, the same way as to Unbelievers.....

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From my understanding it sounds like your looking for a community rather than a religion.

If it is truth that you are looking for, then those who adhere to it are irrelevant. Irrelevant to the truth you seek and irrelevant to your relationship to your Creator.

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On 8/28/2018 at 7:58 AM, zambala said:

1) about Marjas - Shias say - it doesn't matter, we do as we ourselves find it right or as we wish;

From Sayed Sistani's risalah

Issue 14: If a person performs his acts for some time without taqlid of a Mujtahid, and later follows a
Mujtahid, his former actions will be valid if that Mujtahid declares them to be valid, otherwise they will be
treated as void.

On 8/28/2018 at 7:58 AM, zambala said:

2) about Hijab wearing - Ohh, it's only between Me and God

https://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01208/

This takes 5 minutes, if you want to find out the Shia opinion on something don't just ask random people on facebook, ask someone in real life or do some research...

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1 hour ago, IbnSina said:

From my understanding it sounds like your looking for a community rather than a religion.

If it is truth that you are looking for, then those who adhere to it are irrelevant. Irrelevant to the truth you seek and irrelevant to your relationship to your Creator.

I have already a great relationship with the Creator; I have no lack of virtues and merits and education; I have anything except a community to share it with;

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5 hours ago, zambala said:

That's sad indeed, you do not understand, and  I had difficulties to understand you too, due to your poor English.

Yes, we are in the Battle every day - and Wherever we are;

We are in the battle with ourselves - to become close with God and perfect inside; and to inspire all the world to become Perfect Saints;

Yes, enertainment Music IS Haram, both in all Sunni Madhabs and in Shia Ayatollah's teachings; there may be a discussion about strictly Spiritual, Religious, Non-Entertainment music, and there again are many Haram instruments and a few questionable;

Videogames - also Should be Haram - because they are Useless Entertainment, taking away your precious Time from God and from Prayers and Dhikr, from serving your family and community....

And - this is Battle again - all believers should be United - to teach the good and forbid the evil - to Unbelievers and to those "Cultural" believers.... all Umma should stand as One for this and much more....for our Future, for the World's future.... It cannot be - that I spend all my time for this, and others do not care; If they do not care or do not understand what should be understood - they are like Unbelievers; Their belief is of no importance, the same way as to Unbelievers.....

For someone who seems to be a huge advent of spiritual awareness, you seem to lack much of the benefit of the doubt in others and put emphasis in what you see instead of the unseen. Most especially in your Islamic peers.

It seems you're looking for a community or group of people more than anything.  Sadly there's more to people than what you see plainly of them. I really advise that you open your perspective.

There sin in assumption per the message of Allah swt.

You tell us you don't lack virtues and merits but it is obvious to everyone here that you are lacking. Perhaps humble yourself because any and all of Allah swt chosen never believed for a second they were not lacking in merits, virtue and education. They believed they must constantly improve it and seek more.

You're arrogance is ever so exuded and blinding. 

 

Edited by wmehar2

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30 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

For someone who seems to be a huge advent of spiritual awareness, you seem to lack much of the benefit of the doubt in others and put emphasis in what you see instead of the unseen. Most especially in your Islamic peers.

It seems you're looking for a community or group of people more than anything.  Sadly there's more to people than what you see plainly of them. I really advise that you open your perspective.

There sin in assumption per the message of Allah swt.

You tell us you don't lack virtues and merits but is obvious to everyone here that you are lacking. Perhaps humble yourself because any and all of Allah swt chosen never believed for a second they were not lacking in merits, virtue and education.

You're arrogance is ever so exuded and blinding.

Thanks for good words;

I have a good advise for anybody trying to teach me -

First, rent a lonely room in some far away town, live, pray, meditate, study and think there alone - for some 30 years; without any Computers, TV, playing consoles, music, relatives and similar....

That's somewhat my situation....

If you have all this - you can easily choose any , whatever religion now, and look for community....

But the sad part - there are no anymore that community for which you did all your hard work.... you are a ghost there and there and there...

Indeed - I know everything about the Unseen.... I am myself the Unseen too.... I am not to be humble - it is my job to Command and teach - and to change the world, and there are two groups of people - those who try to Understand what I mean - and those who think they are more clever....

... Ohh... Music and Videogames.....

I remember, I was in a 2nd year in school, when our teacher brought a Calculator to the school.... it was probably the very first Calculator in a town, working from a cord and big box....

Edited by zambala

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58 minutes ago, zambala said:

Thanks for good words;

I have a good advise for anybody trying to teach me -

First, rent a lonely room in some far away town, live, pray, meditate, study and think there alone - for some 30 years; without any Computers, TV, playing consoles, music, relatives and similar....

That's somewhat my situation....

If you have all this - you can easily choose any , whatever religion now, and look for community....

But the sad part - there are no anymore that community for which you did all your hard work.... you are a ghost there and there and there...

Indeed - I know everything about the Unseen.... I am myself the Unseen too.... I am not to be humble - it is my job to Command and teach - and to change the world, and there are two groups of people - those who try to Understand what I mean - and those who think they are more clever....

... Ohh... Music and Videogames.....

I remember, I was in a 2nd year in school, when our teacher brought a Calculator to the school.... it was probably the very first Calculator in a town, working from a cord and big box....

So get out of town.

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20 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

So get out of town.

You are nobody to tell me something, I hope this is clear?!

And I didn't understand what you were trying to say.... I'm sure something evil.... degraded people should start with the minimum - the Duty, and much later start dreaming about something "Mystical" inside.....

Most people have neither outside, neither inside anything...

Edited by zambala

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1 hour ago, zambala said:

You are nobody to tell me something, I hope this is clear?!

And I didn't understand what you were trying to say.... I'm sure something evil.... degraded people should start with the minimum - the Duty, and much later start dreaming about something "Mystical" inside.....

Most people have neither outside, neither inside anything...

I'll say this differently. Try to get out of where you are and look and see and learn different things . travel to other countries get out there and learn things.  I don't think you can get everything from meditating alone and learning from within the inside without anything to reflect from the outside. You need both outside and inside.

Knowledge and wisdom comes from wanting to learn more not automatically assuming something arrogant like you know everything or you have nothing to gain more in virtue because you don't interact with the outside world if anything that just constrained you and limit your impact that you can make to the greater world through your Deeds.

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1 hour ago, zambala said:

You are nobody to tell me something, I hope this is clear?!

And I didn't understand what you were trying to say.... I'm sure something evil.... degraded people should start with the minimum - the Duty, and much later start dreaming about something "Mystical" inside.....

Most people have neither outside, neither inside anything...

Being alone and ostracized from the world is no different than having a veil put over your eyes

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2 hours ago, zambala said:

Indeed - I know everything about the Unseen.... I am myself the Unseen too.... I am not to be humble - it is my job to Command and teach - and to change the world, and there are two groups of people - those who try to Understand what I mean - and those who think they are more clever....

you need to come back down to earth a bit if you wanna join a community 

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3 hours ago, zambala said:

Indeed - I know everything about the Unseen.... I am myself the Unseen too.... I am not to be humble - it is my job to Command and teach - and to change the world, and there are two groups of people - those who try to Understand what I mean - and those who think they are more clever....

 

Either a troll or guy legit has schizophrenia so let us not bash him.

As for a reply to your claims, if Imam Ali (a.s), the 2nd greatest creation of all creations, can humble himself and give water to his killer, surely you can be humble to some minuscule degree as well.

Edited by dragonxx

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9 hours ago, zambala said:

I have already a great relationship with the Creator; I have no lack of virtues and merits and education; I have anything except a community to share it with;

Its better to be humble brother. I can tell you myself that I lack virtues and merits.

If the shia community is not to your liking will you deny the theology of shia islam?

If the answer is yes then you are not serious about religion to begin with.

If the answer is no then you understand that the community is irrelevant to the truth in the theology.

 

Anyways, I want to advise you again to be humble, arrogance is what made over 1000 years of perfect worship go to waste for ibliss(la) and ultimately made him the subject for everyones curses, the men and angels alike. What awaits him now?

 

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Who are telling me about arrogance.....

I have no arrogance, but it is my job to be in front, to be an example and a teaching to everyone; If not me, who else will do?! You all should be like I am! The world is so much disastrous, because most people are playing about religion and trying to be "humble", instead of being compelling;

Those advising me "to be humble" have no clue what they are talking.

I am the teacher and boss, I will tell you about humbleness, when it will be appropriate.

Edited by zambala

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33 minutes ago, zambala said:

I am the teacher and boss, I will tell you about humbleness, when it will be approp

All Imams (as)  are teacher & friends not boss they were living & Imam Mahdi (aj) is living  among people but all of them were/are most pious people also abandoning society & people to gain spirituality is against Quran teachings it’s bid’ah Of Christians that inserted to Islamic teachings specially suffis  ,Imam Ali(as) was praying 1000 Raka’ts Namaz everyday but he was praying 2 raka’ts beneath each palm tree ,during caring 500 palm trees everyday beside that he was living among people & was solving their problems & hid family too.

ثُمَّ قَفَّيْنَا عَلَىٰ آثَارِهِم بِرُسُلِنَا وَقَفَّيْنَا بِعِيسَى ابْنِ مَرْيَمَ وَآتَيْنَاهُ الْإِنجِيلَ وَجَعَلْنَا فِي قُلُوبِ الَّذِينَ اتَّبَعُوهُ رَأْفَةً وَرَحْمَةً وَرَهْبَانِيَّةً ابْتَدَعُوهَا مَا كَتَبْنَاهَا عَلَيْهِمْ إِلَّا ابْتِغَاءَ رِضْوَانِ اللَّـهِ فَمَا رَعَوْهَا حَقَّ رِعَايَتِهَا ۖ فَآتَيْنَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مِنْهُمْ أَجْرَهُمْ ۖ وَكَثِيرٌ مِّنْهُمْ فَاسِقُونَ ﴿٢٧

Then We made Our apostles to follow in their footsteps, and We sent Isa son of Marium afterwards, and We gave him the Injeel, and We put in the hearts of those who followed him kindness and mercy; and (as for) monkery, they innovated it-- We did not prescribe it to them-- only to seek Allah's pleasure, but they did not observe it with its due observance; so We gave to those of them who believed their reward, and most of them are transgressors. (27)

http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.shakir/57:27

even you don’t follow any school of taught ,you can’t stand against Quran that says most of people that abandon society are transgressors .

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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14 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

All Imams (as)  are teacher & friends not boss they were living & Imam Mahdi (aj) is living  among people but all of them were/are most pious people also abandoning society & people to gain spirituality is against Quran teachings it’s bid’ah Of Christians that inserted to Islamic teachings specially suffis

even you don’t follow any school of taught ,you can’t stand against Quran that says most of people that abandon society are transgressors .

I did not abandoned society. It was society that abandoned me.

I have always been seeking for a society, to convert that evil and corrupt society, that abandoned me. But I see - there is almost none, you all have gone with the transgressors & oppressors, not with me.

But to teach me - you should have an experience of a similar - of many, many years beeing that abandoned one, and also about the divine perfection for the benefit of all beings; Sufi saints or Buddhis saints - they have never abondoned Society! They have been quietly working - for the benefit and saving of all society! And waiting - when You will come and join us! When our inspiration for you will be enough!

Only Perfect Saints may teach and influence society, not imperfect beings, so everyone have to strive for that sainthood and perfection and closeness to God, to change this corrupt world! Who doesn't strive & work hard - that is a criminal & transgressor! They are responsible for everything bad happens in the world!

If you are an imperfect person - you influence the world towards the imperfections and wars and sufferings!

Edited by zambala

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2 minutes ago, zambala said:

Only Perfect Saints may teach and influence society, not imperfect beings, so everyone have to strive for that sainthood and perfection and closeness to God,

The imams (as) are infallible saints if we exclude them from our lives ,it causes a huge destruction & misfortune but if we exclude all of suffis saints ,buddists & monks it won’t make any huge change in our lives from past ,current & future life of people 

being a Muslim causes many people abandon  you & many of your friend will live you that very obviousabout new converts by becoming shia you will lose your remaining friends & maybe find new enemies toward you only after Iran revolution Shias around the world could gain some respect before that most of shia Muslims were in danger of extinction in many countries like as Yemen & Lebanon but now whole of the world count them as a respectful Muslims around the world.

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17 hours ago, zambala said:

That's sad indeed, you do not understand, and  I had difficulties to understand you too, due to your poor English.

Yes, we are in the Battle every day - and Wherever we are;

We are in the battle with ourselves - to become close with God and perfect inside; and to inspire all the world to become Perfect Saints;

Yes, enertainment Music IS Haram, both in all Sunni Madhabs and in Shia Ayatollah's teachings; there may be a discussion about strictly Spiritual, Religious, Non-Entertainment music, and there again are many Haram instruments and a few questionable;

Videogames - also Should be Haram - because they are Useless Entertainment, taking away your precious Time from God and from Prayers and Dhikr, from serving your family and community....

And - this is Battle again - all believers should be United - to teach the good and forbid the evil - to Unbelievers and to those "Cultural" believers.... all Umma should stand as One for this and much more....for our Future, for the World's future.... It cannot be - that I spend all my time for this, and others do not care; If they do not care or do not understand what should be understood - they are like Unbelievers; Their belief is of no importance, the same way as to Unbelievers.....

Music is haram, prove it or do not say it.

And do not say about what your tongues assert of falsehood, “This is
lawful and this is forbidden,” to invent a lie about Allah. Indeed, those who invent a lie about Allah will not succeed.
A little enjoyment,  and they will have a painful punishment. 16:116-117.

قُلْ هَلُمَّ شُهَدَاءَكُمُ الَّذِينَ يَشْهَدُونَ أَنَّ اللَّهَ حَرَّمَ هَٰذَا ۖ فَإِنْ شَهِدُوا فَلَا تَشْهَدْ مَعَهُمْ ۚ وَلَا تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَاءَ الَّذِينَ كَذَّبُوا بِآيَاتِنَا وَالَّذِينَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالْآخِرَةِ وَهُمْ بِرَبِّهِمْ يَعْدِلُونَ

Say: Bring your witnesses who should bear witness that Allah has forbidden this, then if they bear witness, do not bear witness with them; and follow not the low desires of those who reject Our ayahs and of those who do not believe in the hereafter, and they make (others) equal to their Lord.
Surah Al-An'am (6:150) 

قُلْ تَعَالَوْا أَتْلُ مَا حَرَّمَ رَبُّكُمْ عَلَيْكُمْ ۖ أَلَّا تُشْرِكُوا بِهِ شَيْئًا ۖ وَبِالْوَالِدَيْنِ إِحْسَانًا ۖ وَلَا تَقْتُلُوا أَوْلَادَكُمْ مِنْ إِمْلَاقٍ ۖ نَحْنُ نَرْزُقُكُمْ وَإِيَّاهُمْ ۖ وَلَا تَقْرَبُوا الْفَوَاحِشَ مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَمَا بَطَنَ ۖ وَلَا تَقْتُلُوا النَّفْسَ الَّتِي حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ إِلَّا بِالْحَقِّ ۚ ذَٰلِكُمْ وَصَّاكُمْ بِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ

Say: Come I will recite what your Lord has forbidden to you-- (remember) that you do not associate anything with Him and show kindness to your parents, and do not slay your children for (fear of) poverty-- We provide for you and for them-- and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed, and do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden except for the requirements of justice; this He has enjoined you with that you may understand.
Surah Al-An'am (6:151

 

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14 hours ago, zambala said:

Thanks for good words;

I have a good advise for anybody trying to teach me -

First, rent a lonely room in some far away town, live, pray, meditate, study and think there alone - for some 30 years; without any Computers, TV, playing consoles, music, relatives and similar....

That's somewhat my situation....

If you have all this - you can easily choose any , whatever religion now, and look for community....

But the sad part - there are no anymore that community for which you did all your hard work.... you are a ghost there and there and there...

Indeed - I know everything about the Unseen.... I am myself the Unseen too.... I am not to be humble - it is my job to Command and teach - and to change the world, and there are two groups of people - those who try to Understand what I mean - and those who think they are more clever....

... Ohh... Music and Videogames.....

I remember, I was in a 2nd year in school, when our teacher brought a Calculator to the school.... it was probably the very first Calculator in a town, working from a cord and big box....

I applaud your devotion to spirituality and agree wholeheartedly that the viral spread  of profligacy and hedonism in our societies are cancers that destroys all religions and piety.

What is your solution to counter it? Not the theological model we follow specifically but rather as a community organizer how will a dedicated spiritual person go about starting such a movement? Please explain the nuts and bolts 

 

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Bros Ashvazdange and others I greatly respect your views and contribution here but urge you all to take a broader look at what bro zambala is saying without sectarian lens plus we are all guilty of " running with the hares and hunting with hounds" i.e enjoying (albeit in a halal way) this dunya while paying lip service to Akira...I can say that for myself at least 

Here we have bro zambala who has shunned the world for seeking enlightenment and I do understand his frustration with the general rank and file believers who want to enjoy the best of this world without trying to rise to a higher spiritual level 

Edited by Panzerwaffe

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10 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

 Here we have bro zambala who has shunned the world for seeking enlightenment and I do understand his frustration with the general rank and file believers who want to enjoy the best of this world without trying to rise to a higher spiritual level 

I think it's quite the opposite, he feels shunned and isolated for presenting himself as the essence of enlightenment. Which is why he thinks nobody else is trying to rise to a higher spiritual level, i.e. cuz they're so far "below" him.

i doubt he is any less audacious in real life.

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17 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

what bro zambala is saying without sectarian lens plus we are all guilty of " running with the hares and hunting with hounds"

all of his posts full of Do & don't with being pride because of himslef & knows rest of people that does their daily jobs & career  & also doing their Wajibats as miserable people that he must guide them to his desired community & stop doing everything and just recite dhikrs whole day ,this is same agenda as cooperative farms that isolates themselves from rest of community & prone to using drugs & smuggling & etc.

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Salām, friends,

I didn't read yet your posts and I hope to keep my head clear of your negativities.

With that said, it seems like Divine light has been shed on me, and I am strongly leaning towards Zaydiyyah now....

Indeed, when I read almost any history books - it becomes easily clear - that Hazrat Alī (peace be upon him) was the legitimate successor of the Prophet Muhaamad (saws), as well as Ahle Bayt - the 4 people Prophet Muhaamad (saws) designed in the Hadith;

However - this doesn't mean I have to accept blindly all later exaggerations and innovations and your inner fighting and ambitions between Ayatollahs and between Akhbaris & Usulis;

Among the exaggerations - I would mention - for examle, the idea that Alī's (peace upon him) Imammate "was known to all prophets and all religions" - sorry, I know Buddhism & Vaishnavism - and there is nothing about the Immamate of Alī (aleyhum salām). I doubt about Christianity too. So, this is speaking about something I dhat Imao not know.

Among the Innovations - last night on Facebook in discussion - I was shocked that Chess has been Forbidden, by Imam Sadiq;

Sorry, friends, Chess, as we know it today - has originated in 15-19 th centuries only. It is a game of Skill and Learning. It is noway a Gambling. Gambling is a Gambling, a game of chance or bidding, but not the Qualified Sport and Championship - what the game of Chess is.

Chess is not, and could not, be forbidden nowhere in Quran or in Prophet's Hadiths. So, forbidding Chess is a clear Innovation. And I don't know what I will find out next.

From the above - I make conclusions - that Imams - where great teachers, and followers of Alī (as), but I cannot take them for Infallible in a full meaning of that word.

Also - Zaydis would not force me to Curse anybody. That's good.

And - Zaydis usually are not very humble, but stand up and fight for a better world; and that is good too.

With that said, I believe Zaydis must have the Truth to follow. They are one of the earliest and best preserved Shia group of followers of Alī (aleyhum salam)

Edited by zambala

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28 minutes ago, zambala said:

Among the Innovations - last night on Facebook in discussion - I was shocked that Chess has been Forbidden, by Imam Sadiq;

Sorry, friends, Chess, as we know it today - has originated in 15-19 th centuries only. It is a game of Skill and Learning. It is noway a Gambling. Gambling is a Gambling, a game of chance or bidding, but not the Qualified Sport and Championship - what the game of Chess is.

Chess is not, and could not, be forbidden nowhere in Quran or in Prophet's Hadiths. So, forbidding Chess is a clear Innovation. And I don't know what I will find out next.

There are hadiths prohibiting chess, don't know what you mean by "could not." The rules of the religion don't change because you don't like them.

28 minutes ago, zambala said:

Also - Zaydis would not force me to Curse anybody. That's good.

And - Zaydis usually are not very humble, but stand up and fight for a better world; and that is good too.

With that said, I believe Zaydis must have the Truth to follow. They are one of the earliest and best preserved Shia group of followers of Alī (aleyhum salam)

How much Zaydi literature have you read lol. Are you convinced that the zaydi doctrine is true or just like it?

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15 minutes ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

There are hadiths prohibiting chess, don't know what you mean by "could not." The rules of the religion don't change because you don't like them.

How much Zaydi literature have you read lol. Are you convinced that the zaydi doctrine is true or just like it?

1) "could not" because the Chess rules and regulations and standards changed, Chess moves were officially developed in 15th century in Spain, and rules were standartized in 19th century;

And - I researched - all Twelvers "Hadiths" come from later Imāms, mostly from Jaffar Sadiq (as); but not from Prophet Muhammad (saws) - that's not a Hadīth in my book;

besides - there are only 2 usual Arguments - a Gamble - or "because Yazid played chess":

a) Chess is not a Gamble b) Yazid.... why they didn't forbid a Sword?! Yazid was using a sword and knife too, why those are not forbidden?

2) Not many books, but little bit; and as I have said - I can submit to ANY religion; as far it is acceptable in general lines and with a good company.

My general goal - is Prayers & Holiness, not some minor details of Fiqh

Edited by zambala

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43 minutes ago, zambala said:

And - I researched - all Twelvers "Hadiths" come from later Imāms, mostly from Jaffar Sadiq (as); but not from Prophet Muhammad (saws) - that's not a Hadīth in my book;

If the hadith of the prophet as conveyed by a fallible companions are hadith compiled by  persons later then why  words  of imams cannot be hadith of the prophet saaw  coming through them?

We do have hadith mentioning that the words of imams from pure progeny of the prophet saaw are sayings of the prophet saaw. I do have right to reject your such book.

Regards

Edited by skyweb1987

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4 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

If the hadith of the prophet as conveyed by a fallible companions are hadith then why  words  of imams cannot be hadith of the prophet saaw  coming through them?

We do have hadith mentioning that the words of imams from pure progeny of the prophet saaw are sayings of the prophet saaw. I do have right to reject your such book.

They are not the words of Prophet Muhammed (saws), but what your, mostly Akhbari, propagandists share as "Hadiths" - are words of Jaffar Sadiq (as);

Nobody pretends he would be relating something from Prophet (saws), but only, if you believe Imam Sadiq (as) was 'Infallible', you should believe what he himself said.

Edited by zambala

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3 minutes ago, zambala said:

They are not the words of Prophet Muhammed (saws), but what your, mostly Akhbari, propagandists share as "Hadiths" - are words of Jaffar Sadiq (as)

You have not answered my question mentioned in the last post:

If the hadith of the prophet as conveyed by a fallible companions are hadith compiled by  persons later then why  words  of imams cannot be hadith of the prophet saaw  coming through them? I am not akhbari brother just for your information.

Would you like to answer, please?

Edited by skyweb1987

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2 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

You have not answered my question mentioned in the last post:

If the hadith of the prophet as conveyed by a fallible companions are hadith compiled by  persons later then why  words  of imams cannot be hadith of the prophet saaw  coming through them? I am not akhbari brother just for your information.

Would you like to answer, please?

Nobody pretends he would be relating something from Prophet (saws), but only, if you believe Imam Sadiq (as) was 'Infallible', you should believe what he himself said.

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5 minutes ago, zambala said:

Nobody pretends he would be relating something from Prophet (saws), but only, if you believe Imam Sadiq (as) was 'Infallible', you should believe what he himself said.

If the words of companions as conveyed  are hadith of the prophet saaw then why the words of imams as conveyed  cannot be the sayings of the prophet or hadith?

May you like to mention a clear answer , please?

Edited by skyweb1987

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1 minute ago, skyweb1987 said:

If the words of companions as conveyed  are hadith of the prophet saaw then why the words of imams as conveyed  cannot be the sayings of the prophet or hadith?

May you like give a clear answer , please?

The clear Answer is - If I say something - and you consider me Infallible - you call it Hadiths and tell others - Hadiths say.....

and - no, I am not a Prophet's messanger.

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9 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

You have not answered my question mentioned in the last post:

If the hadith of the prophet as conveyed by a fallible companions are hadith compiled by  persons later then why  words  of imams cannot be hadith of the prophet saaw  coming through them? I am not akhbari brother just for your information.

Would you like to answer, please?

 

3 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

If the words of companions as conveyed  are hadith of the prophet saaw then why the words of imams as conveyed  cannot be the sayings of the prophet or hadith?

May you like to mention a clear answer , please?

:grin::grin::grin::grin::grin::hahaha:

Edited by skyweb1987

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