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In the Name of God بسم الله
shiasoldier786

John McCain Dies

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6 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

It’s not just John McCain. It’s the Republican Party.

The view point of eastern & western countries different on politics for westerners they consider importance of Political party influence but in  eastern like as whole ME viewpoint personality of political & influence is more important his/her political party now America must find a new person for replacement of him for ME because eastern political based on persons not parties .

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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14 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

I don’t know entirely about what he did. But I do know that republicans support war more often than not due to the issue of liberty, and how much liberty is to be used. It’s not just John McCain. It’s the Republican Party. It’s a very republican belief to be hateful of Muslims, to some degree. Nearly every republican I’ve met is against Islam in some way. 

I just knew about his political beliefs (Republican) which puts him in that camp that he will automatically be against Islam on some level. 

Just by analysing your post above, its evident that you are quite well informed. 

Edited by power

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11 minutes ago, power said:

Just by analysing your post above, its evident that you are quite well informed. 

Your analytical skills need work. And, No I’m not. I’ve given you all the information I know. This is all the basics, and I know the basics. 

Democrats=Liberal, not hateful of Islam. Republicans = conservative and hateful of Islam/any religion outside of Christianity. This is the stuff I figured out just by observing others. 

I don’t condemn John maccain so much as I condemn the Republican Party as a whole who have the wrong beliefs about Islam.

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

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6 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

I don’t find sympathy, I just don’t go around saying, “good thing he died, hope he goes straight to hell” whenever someone dies, wether that person was good or bad. Instead, I say that it’s really too bad some people weren’t guided, and I let Allah decide the rest. 

Were you not happy when Saddam was executed? Do you not pray that he is punished for what he had done? Do you think those Iraqis who celebrated his execution were immoral in their behaviour?

What about convicted criminals like rapists and murderers - if they are executed or sent to prison forever, do you not feel happy? If someone were to come and do something horrible to you, your family, your children, that it warranted death, but they were getting away with it - you would not feel happy when they die?

If not, then do you think that is a normal reaction or an abnormal one? Is it normal to not feel happy if a harm is removed from society or that it perishes? 

Furthermore, if you claim that you do not know much about this person or what he did, then perhaps it's better to not get involved in the discussion, especially since your comments may even be offensive to the millions who felt the brunt of what he would say and the decisions he made.

Wasalam

Edited by Ibn al-Hussain

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7 minutes ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

Were you not happy when Saddam was executed? Do you not pray that he is punished for what he had done?

What about convicted criminals like rapists and murderers - if they are executed or sent to prison forever, do you not feel happy? If someone were to come and do something horrible to you, your family, your children, that it warranted death, but they were getting away with it - you would not feel happy when they die?

If not, then do you think that is a normal reaction or an abnormal one? Is it normal to not feel happy if a harm is removed from society or that it perishes? 

Wasalam 

I don’t condemn others to hell right after that person has died. Read @notme‘s post. 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

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11 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

We as Shias need to focus on our own shortcomings instead of other people’s. It’s sad to see when people aren’t guided, but we mustn’t become arrogant or think we are better just because we do our wajibaats since you don’t know how Allah will judge you. 

@Gaius I. Caesar: what’s your opinion? 

I will never forgive McCain for his "Drill baby, drill" spiel but I started to "respect" him when he started fighting against Trump. At the same he was an absolute fool when he said "we should bomb,bomb, bomb Iran.". I'm glad and disappointed that he  is dead. The last "sensible" Republican is dead which is the disappointing side, but the part that makes me glad is that a war hawk and a crook is dead.

Any politician that wants to bomb Iran is a dreaming fool, not a foe. They don't appreciate the Revolution and what it means for the Iranian people, a formidable foe realizes this and waits for the perfect opportunity to  strike. McCain was not that person. @Ashvazdanghe 

@Laayla She said only remembers him for the Presidential election, she did not vote him because a.) She was too young to vote at the time. b.) He was the senator of Arizona, not California. Americans only vote the senators in their states, not in other states. Why the blame? She is really saying "I let Allah judge McCain, I don't know him, so I refrain making accusations about him now that he is dead." Is that not acceptable in Islam?

 

8 hours ago, starlight said:

Imam al-Husayn (as) : “O People! Allah’s Prophet (S) said, ‘Any person who sees an oppressive sultan making illegal that which is lawful [halal], breaking Allah’s covenant, opposing the sunnah of Allah’s Prophet (S), conducting himself in a sinful and tyrannical way among Allah’s servants (the people) and does not speak out against such a sultan in order to bring about change; it becomes binding upon Allah to throw this apathetic person where he belongs, in Hell".

@starlight I think it would have been better to clarify  your  position without using this hadith,  A.) A senator is strictly  a government representative of a state. A sultan has absolute power, the analogy is way off base. B.) Seeing as you two have a history, it doesn't take much to come to that conclusion you are referring to her, sis. It's not a surprise she got upset.  I think it's best to avoid misunderstandings and be clear as possible.

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2 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Saddam is an entirely different topic. If you wish, you could start another thread about what a jerk he was and I’ll respond there. 

I don’t condemn others to hell right after that person has died. Read @notme‘s post. 

 

I'm sorry, but I find your responses on this thread really inconsistent. As for what @notme has written, regarding "In my culture, you say the best that you are able about someone who has recently died" - one can contest whether such a practice - even culturally speaking - should be applied on absolutely every individual.

Wasalam

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1 minute ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

I'm sorry, but I find your responses on this thread really inconsistent. As for what @notme has written, regarding "In my culture, you say the best that you are able about someone who has recently died" - one can contest whether such a practice - even culturally speaking - should be applied on absolutely every individual.

Wasalam

No it’s not. Saddam has been dead for a long time. John McCain died yesterday. Big difference. 

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2 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Any politician that wants to bomb Iran is a dreaming fool, not a foe. They don't appreciate the Revolution and what it means for the Iranian people, a formidable foe realizes this and waits for the perfect opportunity to  strike. McCain was not that person. 

You are right but In comparison with clowns like as Trump & Bolton & Netanyahu  & rest of their crew he was a formidable foe after him rest of Iran enemies are just good for laughing jokes :D

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Just now, Ashvazdanghe said:

You are right but In comparison with clowns like as Trump & Bolton & Netanyahu  & rest of their crew he was a formidable foe after him rest of Iran enemies are just good for laughing jokes :D

I disagree, it would be foolish to dismiss them as jokes.  

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1 minute ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

No it’s not. Saddam has been dead for a long time. John McCain died yesterday. Big difference. 

Yazid (la) died centuries ago but all Shias agree that he was an evil & every shia & people among Sunnis still curse him ,Saddam & McCain were in his group too.

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5 minutes ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

I'm sorry, but I find your responses on this thread really inconsistent. As for what @notme has written, regarding "In my culture, you say the best that you are able about someone who has recently died" - one can contest whether such a practice - even culturally speaking - should be applied on absolutely every individual.

Wasalam

The man just died, I find it extremely juvenile and in  poor taste to see Muslims bashing on a dead guy who probably isn't cold or hasn't been buried yet as I write this post.  As for what Notme said, we don't have to say positive things about him. We can say nothing at all about McCain. 

Wasalam

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1 minute ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

The man just died, I find it extremely juvenile and in  poor taste to see Muslims bashing on a dead guy who probably isn't cold or hasn't been buried yet as I write this post.  As for what Notme said, we don't have to say positive things about him. We can say nothing at all about McCain. 

1

Why do you find it in poor taste? What respect or dignity does he hold in your eyes - whether alive or dead? These feelings are utterly baseless. What difference does it make whether he has been buried yet or not, or whether his body is still warm or not? Who the hell is he for me to even give him an even ounce of respect? I condemn him while he was alive, and I will condemn him and pray for God to give him what he deserves, even if he just died. To hell with him. 

Wasalam

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Just now, Ibn al-Hussain said:

Why do you find it in poor taste? What respect or dignity does he hold in your eyes - whether alive or dead? These feelings are utterly baseless. What difference does it make whether he has been buried yet or not, or whether his body is still warm or not? Who the hell is he for me to even give him an even ounce of respect? I condemn him while he was alive, and I will condemn him and pray for God to give him what he deserves, even if he just died. To hell with him. 

Wasalam

This man, as much as I despise him, his views and policies , is somebody's father, husband and grandfather...  Hence, I am not giving him respect but rather his  family.   Respecting them is never baseless, they suffered a loss in the family.

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9 minutes ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

Why do you find it in poor taste? What respect or dignity does he hold in your eyes - whether alive or dead? These feelings are utterly baseless. What difference does it make whether he has been buried yet or not, or whether his body is still warm or not?

It's not out of respect for the dead. It's out of respect for the living. Let the family have a little peace for their mourning. It's not going to hurt anyone to wait a week or two before discussing the man's sins. 

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24 minutes ago, notme said:

It's not out of respect for the dead. It's out of respect for the living. Let the family have a little peace for their mourning. It's not going to hurt anyone to wait a week or two before discussing the man's sins. 

 

26 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

This man, as much as I despise him, his views and policies , is somebody's father, husband and grandfather...  Hence, I am not giving him respect but rather his  family.   Respecting them is never baseless, they suffered a loss in the family.

 

When you are in a situation where you have a war criminal who would have most likely been executed had he been brought to trial in an Islamic court (or any other fair court for that matter) and on the other side the fact that he was a father and a husband and you want to feel sorry for the living due to their loss, you need to weigh out the pros and cons of your decisions. You have two ethical perceptions conflicting (condemn the dead war criminal + respect the living for their loss) and you need to determine whether their respect outweighs the severity of his crimes to the extent that you can hold off on "condemning him" for the time being. I personally do not believe that there is any moral obligation on me to not condemn the criminal, because condemning him does not imply disrespecting his family. Of course in this case, we are also talking about a family who is in full support of a criminal, do not feel guilty about his decisions, nor were they active or vocal critics of him, on the contrary, they send out a statement saying we want to live "up to his example, his expectations". Perhaps a better alternative needs to be sought so that those who feel condemning a criminal somehow disrespects or disturbs the family or interferes with their mourning period, so that we do not have to embarrass ourselves when the millions affected by his decisions ask us why we were silent on his death, the one time when he will be spoken about the most in the media, after which no one will care about him or even mention him and in fact most likely will end up going in the books as an American icon.

Wasalam

Edited by Ibn al-Hussain

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2 minutes ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

I personally do not believe that there is any moral obligation on me to not condemn the criminal, because condemning him does not imply disrespecting his family. 

There is no moral obligation that I know of. I believe the dislike of criticizing a recently deceased person is cultural. 

Do we have any examples in hadith of how The Prophet or His Family responded to deaths of tyrants? 

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