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2Timeless

Is marriage essentially a form of prostitution?

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Salam, 

If we look at the legal Islamic marriage, a woman is given a dowry in exchange for her obedience sexually and morally to her husband. In exchange for money and shelter, the wife must never refuse her husband intimacy, because that is his right over her. Her right over him is financial protection (from what I know). So, if we strip Islamic marriage (permanent marriage) down from all other responsibilities and the hadiths of the prophet and imams, is marriage not essentially a form of prostitution?

Edited by 2Timeless

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4 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

Salam, 

If we look at the legal Islamic marriage, a woman is given a dowry in exchange for her obedience sexually and morally to her husband. In exchange for money and shelter, the wife must never refuse her husband intimacy, because that is his right over her. Her right over him is financial protection (from what I know). So, if we strip Islamic marriage (permanent marriage) down from all other responsibilities and the hadiths of the prophet and imams, is marriage not essentially a form of prostitution?

Wa aleykom alsalam, 

We actually had this discussion when I studied sociology at the university. 

Some people make that comparison not only with Islamic marriages but with marriages and relationships in general. 

There certainly is an exchange but marriage includes spiritual growth when done correctly so I wouldn't call it prostitution. 

 

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6 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

Turns out the answer is similar than I thought. Thank you all for your replies. 

It was a good question. Essentially you were inquiring about the purpose of marriage.

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If one looks at every religious practice superficially, he/she can definitely find a negative thing. Mutah, Nikah, everything. If one changes his/her mind and see the above, it changes everything.

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3 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

Salam, 

If we look at the legal Islamic marriage, a woman is given a dowry in exchange for her obedience sexually and morally to her husband. In exchange for money and shelter, the wife must never refuse her husband intimacy, because that is his right over her. Her right over him is financial protection (from what I know). So, if we strip Islamic marriage (permanent marriage) down from all other responsibilities and the hadiths of the prophet and imams, is marriage not essentially a form of prostitution?

To demonstrate the importance of the independent Quranic jurisprudential study, we cite the example of the woman’s sexual right. In this case, the Late Sayyed Fadlullah (ra) said: “The general well-known Fatwa is that the husband should only respond to the wife’s desire for sex once every four months, according to certain Hadiths…. But we believe that the husband should respond to his wife’s desire in the normal cases if he is capable and even if he has no desire… for we inspire from Allah’s saying: “… and they have rights similar to those against them in a just manner” (2:228) that the right of sex, just as it is a right for the husband, is a right for the wife too

marraige is not prostitution, the dowry is just a gift even in previous scriptures it confirms this, dowry is not limited to money if marriage was prostitution then the dowry would be limited to money and women would have no rights over their husbands for intimacy. 

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2 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Third, marriage is about procreation.

  

“Be fruitful and multiply” LOL the whole point of marraige is stay away from sins and zina this is why marriage is emphasised so much in islam. Even in Christianity and Judaism. Btw I’m not only talking about lust. 

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1 hour ago, Anonymous2144 said:

“Be fruitful and multiply” LOL the whole point of marraige is stay away from sins and zina this is why marriage is emphasised so much in islam. Even in Christianity and Judaism. Btw I’m not only talking about lust. 

I am not sure if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing :einstein:

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I don’t believe that marriage is a form of prostitution since in a marriage, you are typically emotionally and physically connected with that person unlike anyone else. With prostitution, there is no emotional attachment, bonding, or connection.

Marriage is one of the most beautiful things on this earth, when you’re with a great person. It’s hell when you’re with the wrong person.

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26 minutes ago, ShiaMan14 said:

So we shouldn't procreate???

It shouldn’t be forced. Now a days it’s  forced by all religions even atheists and their leaders are brainwashing them into thinking its a must (wajib). There are a lot of people that are depressed because they had kids all because their leader was a narcissist. Kids is not the “next logical thing to do” or a must in marriage. Kids are just a life option just like there are options on a car that you can select  nothing more or less. One thing people should put in mind is some of prophet Muhammad’s wife’s didn’t have kids with him even though they had the option to. Arabs and south Asians like to Cherry pick stuff from Islamic hadiths that support thier culture and force it on their people but little do they know Islam also counters  arrogant culture that forces people do certain things. 

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12 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

Salam, 

If we look at the legal Islamic marriage, a woman is given a dowry in exchange for her obedience sexually and morally to her husband. In exchange for money and shelter, the wife must never refuse her husband intimacy, because that is his right over her. Her right over him is financial protection (from what I know). So, if we strip Islamic marriage (permanent marriage) down from all other responsibilities and the hadiths of the prophet and imams, is marriage not essentially a form of prostitution?

If we look at human beings, they take in fresh and succulent food for energy and, in turn, change it into faeces. So, if we strip humankind down from all other biological functions and capabilities they have, are humans not just faeces-producing machines?

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12 hours ago, Miss Wonderful said:

don't understand why when marriage is mentioned people first think about the sex aspect

Because back in prophet Muhammads time and before prophet Muhammad’s time marraige was the only way to have sexual relations in a lawful way if you have look in the bible Inside the old tastemant you would see God talking a lot about staying away from adultery and fornication and making the bed lawful. Until this day time marraige is the only way to fulfil their sexual desires in a lawful way. 

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1 hour ago, Anonymous2144 said:

Because back in prophet Muhammads time and before prophet Muhammad’s time marraige was the only way to have sexual relations in a lawful way if you have look in the bible Inside the old tastemant you would see God talking a lot about staying away from adultery and fornication and making the bed lawful. Until this day time marraige is the only way to fulfil their sexual desires in a lawful way. 

Hahaha. You have no idea about history. Arabs were notoriously promiscuous before Islam. 

5 hours ago, Anonymous2144 said:

It shouldn’t be forced. Now a days it’s  forced by all religions even atheists and their leaders are brainwashing them into thinking its a must (wajib). There are a lot of people that are depressed because they had kids all because their leader was a narcissist. Kids is not the “next logical thing to do” or a must in marriage. Kids are just a life option just like there are options on a car that you can select  nothing more or less. One thing people should put in mind is some of prophet Muhammad’s wife’s didn’t have kids with him even though they had the option to. Arabs and south Asians like to Cherry pick stuff from Islamic hadiths that support thier culture and force it on their people but little do they know Islam also counters  arrogant culture that forces people do certain things. 

Forced? Procreation is as natural as life. Didn't think I would have to explain to you but you are a result of procreation. The entire world procreates but Arabs and South Asians cherry pick?

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16 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

So, if we strip Islamic marriage (permanent marriage) down from all other responsibilities and the hadiths of the prophet and imams, is marriage not essentially a form of prostitution?

Thats the problem - if you strip it down you no longer have Islamic marriage.

 

This is relevant 

 

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11 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

You have no idea about history

When I said “before prophet Muhammad’s time” I meant as in Jesus’ time. In the bible it also was talking about having sexual relations in a lawful way and then when Muhammad came the Quran said the same thing to the Arabs, no difference. 

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11 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

The entire world procreates but Arabs and South Asians cherry pick?

Arabs and south Asian are very family oriented that’s why they put a lot of pressure in their kids to have kids even if they don’t want to, and the would use their own religion to make them believe it’s wajib. In the West and Europe they also pressure on their kids to just purely continue their family line. When it comes to procreating 85% percent of this world are very arrogant and selfish about it, when person says they don’t want kids they try to pressure him/her to then if that doesn’t work they think their kid that didn’t have kids is not really important anymore since he/she Doesn’t have kids or they get angry at him/her and looks down upon on him/her treat him/her very different to their siblings not like before. If a stranger asks if you are having kids and you happen to say no they will brag about why must have kids and if you still say no they will be pissed and talk shet behind your back. There  is a whole subbreddit on reddit on people who are childfree that complain and rant about other people or their parents being( insert curse world here) to them for simply not wanting kids.

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11 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Didn't think I would have to explain to you but you are a result of procreation.

Well my parents made the decision to have me. 

 

11 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Procreation is as natural as life

Not wanting kids is also as natural as life why should it be questioned?? Do you see people questioning other people why had kids.....certainly not in fact its actually quiet the opposite they ask when your having kids and if they had a kid as a mistake and they didn’t want it they would still congratulate him/her if they are upset or depressed because they had a kid and btw that actually happened to someone on that same subreddit that I mentioned before they guy didn’t have any sex Ed and he’s mrs also (I’m assuming because both didn’t want kids) they both in college and the guy is a pizza delivery man, other people were congratulating him while he was upset that he made a mistake and was questioning why it happened. 

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1 hour ago, Anonymous2144 said:

When I said “before prophet Muhammad’s time” I meant as in Jesus’ time. In the bible it also was talking about having sexual relations in a lawful way and then when Muhammad came the Quran said the same thing to the Arabs, no difference. 

There is like 500 years between them and different land areas. 

People lived in Europe too. Other parts of Asia and Africa as well. 

Looks like your geography and history and just as weak as each other.

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Procreation IS a natural part of life. We are biologically inclined to procreate wether we are emotionally or financially ready or not. Wether we are in stable marriages or not. Up until recently, child-bearing was not something that couples could control or prevent since there was no birth control. People got married knowing that they could have children at any given time without a say in “feeling ready.”

However, I will agree that many couples who choose when they do to have children are prone to selfishness because now we have a choice, more often than not (unless you’re careless or too confident in trying to prevent naturally, or a birth control method fails.) and many times, couples are not on the same page when to start a family as a result. Some people view children as a means to help out with labor and agriculture, others so they have someone who will take care of them into old age. Of course, that isn’t to say that parents who become parents don’t love their children, but the motivation for some might boil down to a couple of factors related to self-interest. 

I will also say that there is pressure to have children, but I’m not entirely sure if that pressure is on everyone. I’m married, and people have been asking me from the very beginning when I’m going to start a family. They are mostly asking out of curiosity, but also because when you marry young, there is some sort of odd expectation from others to have children young as well.

There have been so many couples I know of who got pregnant prior to a year of marriage due to internal and external factors. Some women who are older hastily get married out fear of not being able to have children, not because their choice of spouse is the right person for them. 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

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13 minutes ago, ShiaMan14 said:

There is like 500 years between them and different land areas. 

People lived in Europe too. Other parts of Asia and Africa as well. 

Looks like your geography and history and just as weak as each other.

The person was asking why does person think of sex the first thing when marraige is mentioned and my reply was because the previous scriptures and the Quran emphasis and stresses a lot on having sexual relations in lawful way.  If the scriptures didn’t then fornication and adultery would be norms like today (well for the West atleast...parts of it..)  and people wouldn’t think about sex when marriage is mentioned because they’re already running around like rabbits sleeping with other women. I’m pretty sure the other 124,000 prophets also preached the same message to avoid fornication and adultery, since God almighty sent a prophet to each country even though they ditched them divine ruling after their prophet has been killed or poisoned. 

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25 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

very beginning when I’m going to start a family. They are mostly asking out of curiosity, but also because when you marry young, there is some sort of odd expectation from others to have children young as well.

First of all what happens in the bedroom is none of their business weather you kids or not is your choice not theirs, two strangers, relatives, family friends, shouldn’t have expectations for you  to have kids because it’s none of their business and it’s your life not theirs and they have no benefits if you had kids or not. People shouldn’t be curious about what decisions your gonna make life because frankly none of their damn business. Unfortunately some people have really big noses. 

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1 hour ago, Anonymous2144 said:

Arabs and south Asian are very family oriented that’s why they put a lot of pressure in their kids to have kids even if they don’t want to, and the would use their own religion to make them believe it’s wajib. In the West and Europe they also pressure on their kids to just purely continue their family line. 

So pretty much the whole world believes in procreation...except for you.

1 hour ago, Anonymous2144 said:

When it comes to procreating 85% percent of this world are very arrogant and selfish about it, when person says they don’t want kids they try to pressure him/her to then if that doesn’t work they think their kid that didn’t have kids is not really important anymore since he/she Doesn’t have kids or they get angry at him/her and looks down upon on him/her treat him/her very different to their siblings not like before. If a stranger asks if you are having kids and you happen to say no they will brag about why must have kids and if you still say no they will be pissed and talk shet behind your back. There  is a whole subbreddit on reddit on people who are childfree that complain and rant about other people or their parents being( insert curse world here) to them for simply not wanting kids.

I think it is 73.4591%.

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1 hour ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

We are biologically inclined to procreate

Just know that the biological clock is a myth, most people want kids for selfish reason or they simply want to make their religion grow by poping kids out and hoping they would be momins and do the same thing  and some just like kids. But most people have kids so they can inherit their money and other properties they own. My dad was at some point was pressuring me to have a kid in the future so he/she can inherit my money and properties, I outright told him even if I happen to be a millionaire my money and properties will go to the poor for sadiqa  al-jahriya. Clearly my dad wanted me to have a kid (even though I don’t like them but don’t hate them and don’t want the responsibility) for a selfish reason, he knows I don’t want kids and wanted to give my money to the poor when I die, he even asked why are you giving your money to the poor why not give some to your younger siblings and have a kid to inherit some. As you can see that was pure selfishness. 

1 hour ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

but I’m not entirely sure if that pressure is on everyone.

The pressure is on almost everyone due to culture and selfishness, i know a couple that didn’t want kids but they had them so they can take care of them when their older, the thing is there’s no guarantee that your kids will take care of you, a person should be able to take of care of him/her self.  I know an 85 year old man who lives alone because his wife passed away and his kids don’t visit him much and he owns a few properties, the old man is pretty healthy he is able to walk just fine go out to places and drive and also takes good care of himself. 

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1 hour ago, Anonymous2144 said:

Well my parents made the decision to have me. 

Not wanting kids is also as natural as life why should it be questioned?? Do you see people questioning other people why had kids.....certainly not in fact its actually quiet the opposite they ask when your having kids and if they had a kid as a mistake and they didn’t want it they would still congratulate him/her if they are upset or depressed because they had a kid and btw that actually happened to someone on that same subreddit that I mentioned before they guy didn’t have any sex Ed and he’s mrs also (I’m assuming because both didn’t want kids) they both in college and the guy is a pizza delivery man, other people were congratulating him while he was upset that he made a mistake and was questioning why it happened. 

Wanting kids and not wanting kids are opposite. I don't think both things can be natural.

This is not a topic about wanting kids or not. This is about what marriage is.

PS. What pizza do you deliver?

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45 minutes ago, Anonymous2144 said:

The person was asking why does person think of sex the first thing when marraige is mentioned and my reply was because the previous scriptures and the Quran emphasis and stresses a lot on having sexual relations in lawful way.  If the scriptures didn’t then fornication and adultery would be norms like today (well for the West atleast...parts of it..)  and people wouldn’t think about sex when marriage is mentioned because they’re already running around like rabbits sleeping with other women. I’m pretty sure the other 124,000 prophets also preached the same message to avoid fornication and adultery, since God almighty sent a prophet to each country even though they ditched them divine ruling after their prophet has been killed or poisoned. 

You are arguing with me about the need for procreation because I said it is a reason to get married.

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1 minute ago, ShiaMan14 said:

biology???

Not all women want kids if you go the childfree subreddit on reddit there are women that like kids but  don’t want one of their own Becuase of the responsibilities. Also some women admitted that when they wanted kids they thought it was the normal thing to do or it because it was the “life script”,  they didn’t want them for a reason. 

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