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shia_100

Would you marry a non-arab

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1 minute ago, realizm said:

To which I replied that I am proud of my heritage but there was nothing to be proud of by looking where Arabs are today. 

I understand what you are saying and as we have agreed upon before arabs have problems as other people. 

One thing you are forgetting though is how to judge and put the blame. Does Allah SWT blame a blind person for not reading with his eyes? No.

The situation in Iraq is only partially because of the Iraqis themselves. We have been living under wars like basically no other country on earth. The PTSD Levels and malnutrition, poverty, illiteracy, illnesses etc are extreme compared to that of westerners. How can you expect deprived and traumatized people to behave on the same level as people who have grown up with silverspoons in their mouths, with access to all kinds of luxuries and security that Iraqis don't? Is that reasonable? I'm not talking about all Iraqis or all westerners but I'm talking about a comparative level and ratios of vulnerability and deprivation. 

Can you compare the test results of a child with dyslexia to a child with hyperlexia who also gets private tutoring? Is that reasonable or fair? We must look at the bigger picture, just as our Lord will when he judges each one of us on judgement day. 

Meritocracy is a myth:

https://www.google.se/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/meritocracy-is-a-myth-9483779.html%3famp

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Without a doubt. As for Arabs letting their daughters or sons marrying a non Arab is almost impossible it’s is very rare to find a Arab person (that is Muslim) to a Marry a non Arab weather its a male or female. Most Arabs see it as a taboo since their marrying someone out of their culture. It’s pretty rare to find Arab Muslim marrying non Arab Muslims but they do exist. Most Arab Muslims look down upon non Arab Muslims when in fact the non Arab Muslims are a 100x better then them. 

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Oh man...it's not as bad as you're portraying it. I think that your bad experiences are not letting you see all the good arabs out there. 

This is normal when people are traumatized/have intense negative experiences. In therapy much work is about correcting negative beliefs regarding reality. 

 

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On 8/24/2018 at 3:16 PM, realizm said:

Because Arabs are even worse. I know Lebanese who consider themselves top notch Arabs, 

Leb and a Iraqi LOL I definitely see that actually happening, one is dumber then the other and they make each other look like fools in front of everyone. In my trade people talk a lot about lebs but it’s not exclusive to my trade even in other trades after them it’s the Iraqis I find this pretty funny

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14 minutes ago, Anonymous2144 said:

Without a doubt. As for Arabs letting their daughters or sons marrying a non Arab is almost impossible it’s is very rare to find a Arab person (that is Muslim) to a Marry a non Arab weather its a male or female. Most Arabs see it as a taboo since their marrying someone out of their culture. It’s pretty rare to find Arab Muslim marrying non Arab Muslims but they do exist. Most Arab Muslims look down upon non Arab Muslims when in fact the non Arab Muslims are a 100x better then them. 

Good Arabs are 100x better than racists. Anyone is better than a racist. Myself and other Arabs do not appreciate the way you are portraying Arabs, which is pretty racist. 

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3 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

Good Arabs are 100x better than racists. Anyone is better than a racist. Myself and other Arabs do not appreciate the way you are portraying Arabs, which is pretty racist. 

It’s the truth I’ve seen It happen with my own eyes and it’s has happened multiple of times, only small minority were open to marry non Arab,  most arabs would only marry the sons to other Arab countries as for the daughters it’s pretty challenging since some Arabs (im talking about Iraqis over here now) would look down upon that girl, I have a family friend that got married to a leb man some people looked down upon her and one of those people happened to be my uncle, not all Iraqis are like this since both countries share very similar triditions in Fact there are a lot of Iraqi-leb marraiges where I live. 

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17 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

It's disgusting how there's a whole thread on ShiaChat, a supposedly respectful Islamic forum, insinuating hatred and racism against Arabs. If this thread were targeted at another race would the response be so neutral? I don't think so.

Maybe it would be helpful to develop some perspective.

The flood gates were opened when a thread was started asking if an Arab would marry a non Arab.  The early responses had very strong bias against non Arabs as worthy of marriage to an Arab which is unIslamic.  When extreme ethnocentric bias is stated, you have to be prepared for reaction to that.  You cant have it one way.

Also worshipping a "nation" will lead you into troubled waters as well, especially in Islam where that is strongly discouraged.  

The reaction was relatively mild given some of the xenophobic comments.  Actually, this whole site is pretty milk toast nowadays in comparison with the old days where posters were held to account for every phrase.  

Edited by forte

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5 minutes ago, forte said:

You cant have it one way.

I know I cannot have it one way. However when you have the same people repeatedly saying incredibly insulting things about your own race, one does get very annoyed and frustrated. Especially when oneself and others have tried to calmly correct those certain individuals, and put it into perspective that not all Arabs are the same. And not all Arabs feel superior. This was done many times, as you've probably seen throughout the three pages of this thread. This is a platform to discuss opinions etc. Myself and other people have tried to get rid of those certain ethnocentric biases by explaining that such generalisations are catastrophic, as they result in borderline (if not completely) racist comments. 

 

5 minutes ago, forte said:

Also worshipping a "nation" will lead you into troubled waters as well, especially in Islam where that is strongly discouraged.  

Please link me to where anyone has worshiped a nation. I for one, have not seen it on this thread or anywhere else on the site. Patriotism and love for your country is not the same as nationalism, or worshiping your country. 

 

6 minutes ago, forte said:

The reaction was relatively mild given some of the xenophobic comments.  Actually, this whole site is pretty milk toast nowadays in comparison with the old days where posters will held to account for every phrase.

No matter how mild or tame comments seem in comparison to comments you've seen, racism is racism. Ethnocentric bias and prejudice is the same. Whether it's magnified to the max, or muted in a sly manner. The comments on this thread, and other threads, have been incredibly rude and offensive to Arabs. No matter how mild you may view them.

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34 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

I know I cannot have it one way. However when you have the same people repeatedly saying incredibly insulting things about your own race, one does get very annoyed and frustrated. Especially when oneself and others have tried to calmly correct those certain individuals, and put it into perspective that not all Arabs are the same. And not all Arabs feel superior. This was done many times, as you've probably seen throughout the three pages of this thread. This is a platform to discuss opinions etc. Myself and other people have tried to get rid of those certain ethnocentric biases by explaining that such generalisations are catastrophic, as they result in borderline (if not completely) racist comments. 

 

Please link me to where anyone has worshiped a nation. I for one, have not seen it on this thread or anywhere else on the site. Patriotism and love for your country is not the same as nationalism, or worshiping your country. 

 

No matter how mild or tame comments seem in comparison to comments you've seen, racism is racism. Ethnocentric bias and prejudice is the same. Whether it's magnified to the max, or muted in a sly manner. The comments on this thread, and other threads, have been incredibly rude and offensive to Arabs. No matter how mild you may view them.

As I said, develop some perspective.  Creating apologetics for your sidekick's behaviour while calling out others on what you see as theirs will not fly.  Use this as an opportunity to reflect and learn.

Edited by forte

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13 minutes ago, Anonymous2144 said:

It’s the truth I’ve seen It happen with my own eyes and it’s has happened multiple of times, only small minority were open to marry non Arab,  most arabs would only marry the sons to other Arab countries as for the daughters it’s pretty challenging since some Arabs (im talking about Iraqis over here now) would look down upon that girl, I have a family friend that got married to a leb man some people looked down upon her and one of those people happened to be my uncle, not all Iraqis are like this since both countries share very similar triditions in Fact there are a lot of Iraqi-leb marraiges where I live. 

I'm sorry, but I, as well as @Carlzone, have tried to have a constructive conversation. However, it is very hard to do when you refuse to see where were coming from. You may think that you are entitled to insult Arabs because you're Arab yourself, but you're wrong. You can insult yourself all you want. You cannot insult a whole nation though. 

You have not provided statistics to prove that Iraqis and Lebanese people are the most racist and arrogant Arabs. And you haven't proven that Arabs in general tend to inbreed. If you do, I'd be happy to continue this conversation. But I don't think it's very productive to be nit-picky and choose only your own experiences and generalise them across a whole nation. 

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2 minutes ago, forte said:

As I said, develop some perspective.  Creating apologetics for your own behaviour while calling out others on theirs will not fly.  Use this as an opportunity to reflect and learn.

Of course, dear brother. I did not create apologetics. Because I am not wrong. Yes, there are racist Arabs, but you simply cannot generalise that. End of. If anyone's creating apologetics it's the certain prejudiced individuals replying on here.

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29 minutes ago, Anonymous2144 said:

Leb and a Iraqi LOL I definitely see that actually happening, one is dumber then the other and they make each other look like fools in front of everyone. In my trade people talk a lot about lebs but it’s not exclusive to my trade even in other trades after them it’s the Iraqis I find this pretty funny

How can you find this funny? Do you harbour resent towards yourself? 

You know, during slavery there where black slaves who identified themselves with their white masters and abused all the other oppressed black slaves beneath them. That is even worse than being a white slaveowner in my eyes. Because here - they even made you hate yourself and aid them in the opression. Reflect on that. 

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1 minute ago, 2Timeless said:

Of course, dear brother. I did not create apologetics. Because I am not wrong. Yes, there are racist Arabs, but you simply cannot generalise that. End of. If anyone's creating apologetics it's the certain prejudiced individuals replying on here.

and therein lies the source of your problem

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2 minutes ago, forte said:

and therein lies the source of your problem

Am I wrong in stating that not all Arabs are racist? And not all Arabs are superior? If you think I'm wrong, then you yourself have a ton of ethnocentric bias. And yes, I am not wrong. No one nation is full of the same type of people. It's honestly just common sense. Simple as that. 

Edited by 2Timeless

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20 minutes ago, Anonymous2144 said:

It’s the truth I’ve seen It happen with my own eyes and it’s has happened multiple of times, only small minority were open to marry non Arab,  most arabs would only marry the sons to other Arab countries as for the daughters it’s pretty challenging since some Arabs (im talking about Iraqis over here now) would look down upon that girl, I have a family friend that got married to a leb man some people looked down upon her and one of those people happened to be my uncle, not all Iraqis are like this since both countries share very similar triditions in Fact there are a lot of Iraqi-leb marraiges where I live. 

Maybe the problem here is that your family and friends might be the bad apples in the Iraqi community, as us others Iraqis here on shiachat do not share your extreme views?

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19 minutes ago, forte said:

Maybe it would be helpful to develop some perspective.

The flood gates were opened when a thread was started asking if an Arab would marry a non Arab.  The early responses had very strong bias against non Arabs as worthy of marriage to an Arab which is unIslamic.  When extreme ethnocentric bias is stated, you have to be prepared for reaction to that.  You cant have it one way.

Also worshipping a "nation" will lead you into troubled waters as well, especially in Islam where that is strongly discouraged.  

The reaction was relatively mild given some of the xenophobic comments.  Actually, this whole site is pretty milk toast nowadays in comparison with the old days where posters were held to account for every phrase.  

I'm sure your ethnicity is infallible and superior to others. 

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1 minute ago, 2Timeless said:

Am I wrong in stating that not all Arabs are racist? And not all Arabs are superior? If you think I'm wrong, then you yourself have a ton of ethnocentric bias. And yes, I am not wrong. No one nation is full of the same type of people. It's honestly just common sense. Simple as that. 

Perspective means to look at the bigger picture and to also look at others' way of viewing things.  You are stuck in a muddy puddle of a large beautiful field.  It would be very enlightening for you to spend more time listening and learning. 

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11 minutes ago, forte said:

As I said, develop some perspective.  Creating apologetics for your own and those of your "group" - for want of a better word - behaviour while calling out others on what you see as theirs will not fly.  Use this as an opportunity to reflect and learn.

You can start by doing that yourself.

Trying to justify your racism. Shame on you.

Luckily, hatred consumes it's own master. 

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1 minute ago, forte said:

Perspective means to look at the bigger picture and to also look at others' way of viewing things.  You are stuck in a muddy puddle of a large beautiful field.  It would be very enlightening for you to spend more time listening and learning. 

Oh that's so tragic. What do you propose I do? Accept and embrace the racism that's been targeted at my own race, with an open heart? Or should I degrade myself as other members have done by being racist to myself? Which of these would make you feel better? Which of these will help me learn about how racist and arrogant Arabs really are?

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2 minutes ago, Carlzone said:

How can you find this funny? Do you harbour resent towards yourself? 

You know, during slavery there where black slaves who identified themselves with their white masters and abused all the other oppressed black slaves beneath them. That is even worse than being a white slaveowner in my eyes. Because here - they even made you hate yourself and aid them in the opression. Reflect on that. 

I’m not hating myself it’s the truth and it’s crystal clear, That slavery story might sound similar to you but it’s a different case though. In Australia lebs and Iraqis are known for their dodgy dealings, work and their arrogance. Btw I was born in Australia and also raised if your wondering why I don’t get offended, my mentality is more Australian then Arab.  i have a mate that grow up with Arabs (btw his half Italian and half crotian) we were talking something (I can’t remember) he was like “bro I’m more Arab then you are  so Australian” I died laughing when he said that then told him cos i am so Australian.

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4 minutes ago, forte said:

Perspective means to look at the bigger picture and to also look at others' way of viewing things.  You are stuck in a muddy puddle of a large beautiful field.  It would be very enlightening for you to spend more time listening and learning. 

Hahahaha! 

I must give you a price for talent in comedy!!!! :hahaha:

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1 minute ago, Anonymous2144 said:

I’m not hating myself it’s the truth and it’s crystal clear, That slavery story might sound similar to you but it’s a different case though. In Australia lebs and Iraqis are known for their dodgy dealings, work and their arrogance. Btw I was born in Australia and also raised if your wondering why I don’t get offended, my mentality is more Australian then Arab.  i have a mate that grow up with Arabs (btw his half Italian and half crotian) we were talking something (I can’t remember) he was like “bro I’m more Arab then you are  so Australian” I died laughing when he said that then told him cos i am so Australian.

Do you find pride in not being close to your roots and completely abandoning them??? Whether you like it or not, you have Iraqi blood, such a shame. This may come as a shock to you, but alot of people on here are Iraqi and were born and raised in the west. Not many boast about it. They're greatful for the opportunity and the safety, but we don't really go around boasting it in every post we make. Its not really something worth boasting about to such an extent.

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8 minutes ago, Carlzone said:

I'm sure your ethnicity is infallible and superior to others. 

Not infallible but probably much better since for the Arab The bad out weigh the good but that doesn’t mean there aren't good people even though they are lost in middle. 

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3 minutes ago, Anonymous2144 said:

I’m not hating myself it’s the truth and it’s crystal clear, That slavery story might sound similar to you but it’s a different case though. In Australia lebs and Iraqis are known for their dodgy dealings, work and their arrogance. Btw I was born in Australia and also raised if your wondering why I don’t get offended, my mentality is more Australian then Arab.  i have a mate that grow up with Arabs (btw his half Italian and half crotian) we were talking something (I can’t remember) he was like “bro I’m more Arab then you are  so Australian” I died laughing when he said that then told him cos i am so Australian.

Yup, they managed to brainwash you into hating yourself. That is so sad.

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@Anonymous2144 by the way, you not getting offended by your own racism isn't Australian mentality. I'm sure many real Australians would be outraged at the racism shown here against Arabs. Which is quite ironic don't you think? If you want to be more like the Australians, and the west in general, learn to respect all nationalities.

Edited by 2Timeless

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4 minutes ago, Anonymous2144 said:

Not gonna lie to you, the answer is yes. It make me a better person. For me atleast. 

Thanks for the honesty. How does it make you a better person?  Iraqis in particular are known for their hospitality and kindness and ability to withstand such hardship. What exactly about those Iraqi values makes you a worse person than an Australian? Or makes an Australian better than you? 

Edited by 2Timeless

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3 minutes ago, Anonymous2144 said:

Not infallible but probably much better since for the Arab The bad out weigh the good but that doesn’t mean there aren't good people even though they are lost in middle. 

I do believe that arabs might have a few more mentally ill or with bad akhlaaq but that is not because they are worse people than westerners. The reason is that they never had the same privileges as westerners. 

One needs not have two brains to understand this simple fact that human nature is being affected by environment and resources. 

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1 minute ago, 2Timeless said:

@Anonymous2144 by the way, you not getting offended by your own racism isn't Australian mentality. I'm sure many real Australians would be outraged at the racism shown here against Arabs. Which is quite ironic don't you think? If you want to be more like the Australians, and the west in general, learn to respect all nationalities.

 By that I don’t care about my background since I was born in Australia. Yes most aussies would find this racist but I couldn’t care less 

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Just now, Anonymous2144 said:

 By that I don’t care about my background since I was born in Australia. Yes most aussies would find this racist but I couldn’t care less 

But you were just boasting about how Australian you are. Shouldn't you be more like them??

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2 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

Thanks for the honesty. How does it make you a better person? 

I don’t have the Arab arrogance, im more open to other things, I wouldn’t say I’m completely open minded for obvious reason but I’m fairly open and I honestly don’t like the Arab culture....well 98 percent of it. 

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Just now, Anonymous2144 said:

I don’t have the Arab arrogance, im more open to other things, I wouldn’t say I’m completely open minded for obvious reason but I’m fairly open and I honestly don’t like the Arab culture....well 98 percent of it. 

I'm not in love with Arab culture either. Yes some of it is close minded and restrictive, but alot of it is also positive. 

No offence, but you do sound arrogant. Thinking you're above Arabs and better than them, thats quite hypocritical. No? Maybe it's the western arrogance, not the Arab arrogance you've got. Also, you don't sound incredibly open minded either because you're not willing to accept that your own experiences cannot be generalised onto all Arabs. It's literally not possible. Look at it from a scientific perspective; you're biased.

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