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Muslim96

Eid al Adha

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5 minutes ago, dragonxx said:

Of course there are factions, and there always will be, because not everyone is able to put aside their personal desires and genuinely accept truth, while there are others who don't have the necessary mental capacity and/or access to come to such conclusions. Allah will judge accordingly. But not having a physical being to run to is not an excuse for not reviewing literature and coming to very basic conclusions of who to listen to and who not to listen to. Otherwise, why would anyone pray the way they do if we can't find any sort of truth, might as well pray your own way if we don't have an infallible physically present to show us how to pray.

Ahh let’s visit this point a bit. Right now you are just going by what a scholar tells you, correct? So let’s assume two equally credible scholars disagree on an issue? What do we do? 

If I find a credible scholar who disagrees with the majority on a particular issue, and I am convinced based off the proofs he provides, am I at fault? It is all subjective.

You can’t claim you are on absolute truth because even the big time scholars disagree on matters so who are you to think you got everything figured out? I don’t mean to sound condescending, but you see my point? Its just not that black and white. 

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7 minutes ago, 786:) said:

okay mr. black and white. Its not that simple. Theres alot of elements in it. If you think Imam Mahdi will not clean things up with the Shia too then you are on drugs. You think he will keep the barbaric ashura rituals? Or you of the thought that he will partake in them lol--because I have heard that too.

A path of truth versus a path of obvious deviance is that simple to differentiate between for people who reflect.

I trust that Imam Mahdi a.a.f will do the right thing and correct anything that unknowingly was mistaken by his followers. I don't leave the true path because I get hung up on minor irrelevant issues. 

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4 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Ahh let’s visit this point a bit. Right now you are just going by what a scholar tells you, correct? So let’s assume two equally credible scholars disagree on an issue? What do we do? 

If I find a credible scholar who disagrees with the majority on a particular issue, and I am convinced based off the proofs he provides, am I at fault? It is all subjective.

You can’t claim you are on absolute truth because even the big time scholars disagree on matters so who are you to think you got everything figured out? I don’t mean to sound condescending, but you see my point? Its just not that black and white. 

You are following the true path as a shia, but as scholars are fallible people there will be mistakes made that imam Mahdi a.a.f will correct. Nothing strange about that. 

It doesn't justify following the enemies of the prophet a.s.

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1 minute ago, Carlzone said:

You are following the true path as a shia, but as scholars are fallible people there will be mistakes made that imam Mahdi a.a.f will correct. Nothing strange about that. 

It doesn't justify following the enemies of the prophet a.s.

Sayed Fadlallah followed the enemie of the prophet?

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12 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Ahh let’s visit this point a bit. Right now you are just going by what a scholar tells you, correct? So let’s assume two equally credible scholars disagree on an issue? What do we do? 

 If I find a credible scholar who disagrees with the majority on a particular issue, and I am convinced based off the proofs he provides, am I at fault? It is all subjective.

 You can’t claim you are on absolute truth because even the big time scholars disagree on matters so who are you to think you got everything figured out? I don’t mean to sound condescending, but you see my point? Its just not that black and white. 

I am very sorry if I came off as "I got everything figured out and I'm on the right path". Allah knows better than me I am very, very far from the perfect path. I don't even know that much about the scholars and the subjects they differ on, but those are relatively "advanced" in my opinion. Also, as long as I'm sincere and I don't allow my arrogance/bias to influence my decisions, then Allah is All-Merciful.

I'm on the very basic level of Islam; where am I going to take my religion and quran interpretations from? People like the Prophet and his family pbuhf or people like ibn al khattab, amr ibn el as, etc.?

I am not saying the eidsubject is clear as day to me because I haven't researched it yet, but if there is overwhelming evidence in terms of hadiths saying that eid of ghadeer is greater than laylatul qadr, why not trust individuals who are infallible? All the quran says is laylatul qadr is better than 1000 months, it doesn't say it's the best night ever, correct me if I'm wrong. Thus the interpretation of Quran should come from infallibles who I can access through the literature left behind and the guidance of Allah.

Edited by dragonxx

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49 minutes ago, dragonxx said:

Huh? He taught us? Allah teaches and inspires each of us directly? Where did the quran compare, for example, laylatul qadr is superior than another specific night?

Forget the sacrifice, in a general sense, do you come to conclusions regarding the Quran exclusively on your sole understanding and interpretation?

Yes, the Quran is for each one of us, it is Allahs command to us directly.

Btw, I never talked about Laylat ul Qadr.

But if other Eids were that special, why arent they mentioned in the Quran?

No, I use my brains, too,  but most of the time I search for fatwas if I have questions. But I do not know what that has to do with my question why Shia does not see Eid al Adha as highly as other Eid.

Edited by Muslim96

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8 minutes ago, dragonxx said:

I am not saying the eidsubject is clear as day to me because I haven't researched it yet, but if there is overwhelming evidence in terms of hadiths saying that eid of ghadeer is greater than laylatul qadr, why not trust individuals who are infallible? All the quran says is laylatul qadr is better than 1000 months, it doesn't say it's the best night ever, correct me if I'm wrong. Thus the interpretation of Quran should come from infallibles who I can access through the literature left behind and the guidance of Allah.

Most basic principle of hadith science is to throw out hadith that contradicts the Quran. There is a hadith from Imam Al-Sadiq that says something along the lines of: If you hear a hadith that has my name attached to it and it goes against the Quran then throw away the hadith. I am not well versed in hadith reference, but iA I will find it.

So my point is, the Quran gives us concrete evidence of a superiority of the night of Qadr. Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى does not mention any other night anywhere near to such fazilat. We can't bring in hadith to support the superiority of another night. Because the other night would be contradicting the Quran. Yes, Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى did not use the word "best", but we can imply from his words that it is truly the best night as he did not mention any other night to such status.

Let me give you another example that might hit home better. The Quran calls the prophets of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى the chosen ones of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى. Now a Sunni brings in a narration stating that Umar ibn Khattab is better than Musa (as). We as shias would open up the Quran to dismantle that hadith as the Quran takes superiority over hadith.

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13 minutes ago, Muslim96 said:

Yes, the Quran is for each one of us, it is Allahs command to us directly.

 Btw, I never talked about Laylat ul Qadr.

 But if other Eids were that special, why arent they mentioned in the Quran?

 No, I use my brains, too,  but most of the time I search for fatwas if I have questions. But I do not know what that has to do with my question why Shia does not see Eid al Adha as highly as other Eid.

Fair enough.

Like my initial post, I was curious about any differences between shia-thought and sunni-thought in regards to Eid al Adha because I'm not familiar with it myself. Personally in my family, I never got the sense where it's "less important" than other Eids.

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42 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Most basic principle of hadith science is to throw out hadith that contradicts the Quran. There is a hadith from Imam Al-Sadiq that says something along the lines of: If you hear a hadith that has my name attached to it and it goes against the Quran then throw away the hadith. I am not well versed in hadith reference, but iA I will find it.

 So my point is, the Quran gives us concrete evidence of a superiority of the night of Qadr. Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى does not mention any other night anywhere near to such fazilat. We can't bring in hadith to support the superiority of another night. Because the other night would be contradicting the Quran. Yes, Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى did not use the word "best", but we can imply from his words that it is truly the best night as he did not mention any other night to such status.

 Let me give you another example that might hit home better. The Quran calls the prophets of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى the chosen ones of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى. Now a Sunni brings in a narration stating that Umar ibn Khattab is better than Musa (as). We as shias would open up the Quran to dismantle that hadith as the Quran takes superiority over hadith.

Yup, I agree with throwing away hadith that contradict the Quran. I thoroughly understand your point.

My point is, you're stating that it is contradictory to the Quran from your perspective, while there might be overwhelming evidence from infallible beings who interpret it otherwise, i.e. not a contradiction. Why trust your own judgement over something disputable over the judgement of learned people who take their understanding from those infallible beings?

All that aside, from a rational perspective, it seems pretty plausible to me that the day the final religion, Islam, is "completed" is a very important day. If, for example, there were many mutaawatir ahadith that say* this day is worth 2000 months, how would that contradict the quran in any way, shape, or form? Why say "No, according to my understanding, the Quran says otherwise", my point is are you qualified to make that claim or is it that you can provide proof?

42 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Yes, Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى did not use the word "best", but we can imply from his words that it is truly the best night as he did not mention any other night to such status.

If you have time, break this down for us who are not as bright as you. Cuz there are many examples where Allah does not mention things in the Quran that are otherwise clarified in hadiths.

Edited by dragonxx
typo

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22 minutes ago, dragonxx said:

Fair enough.

Like my initial post, I was curious about any differences between shia-thought and sunni-thought in regards to Eid al Adha because I'm not familiar with it myself. Personally in my family, I never got the sense where it's "less important" than other Eids.

I think this is fortunately one of the few things where Sunni and Shia have no differences. I just noticed that the Sunnis see it as more important. To give you an example, my iranian neighbors never miss the Eid al Fitr prayers and always visit us on thag day but never did so on Eid ul Adha. They did not even congratulate us on last Eid ul Adha. And they are not the only ones where I saw that.

But nice to hear that your family is not like that.

Edited by Muslim96

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9 minutes ago, dragonxx said:

All that aside, from a rational perspective, it seems pretty plausible to me that the day the final religion, Islam, is "completed" is a very important day. If, for example, there were many mutaawatir ahadith that say* this day is worth 2000 months, how would that contradict the quran in any way, shape, or form?

Wait, I do not know if you know that, but that is the Shia view. It is not general opinion that that day completed the religion. Sunnis say that verse refers to Arafah (or another day, I am not sure). So that is no argument for a Sunni and thus Laylat ul Qadr is the only night/day mentioned in the Quran like that.

Edited by Muslim96

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3 minutes ago, Muslim96 said:

Wait, I do not know if you know that, but that is the Shia view. It is not general opinion that that day completed the religion. Sunnis say that verse refers to Arafah (or another day, I am not sure). So that is no argument for a Sunni and thus Laylat ul Qadr is the only night/day mentioned in the Quran like that.

Oh I see, thanks for clarifying, totally forgot the sunni view is different. But I think the basis of my argument is the same, as the brother 786 puts forth conclusions that he exclusively comes up with rather than claims that can be backed by evidence (correct me if I'm wrong bro 786).

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7 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Not just for me but for Holy Ahlulbait (ams) and all the shias around the world except some internet mujtahids. 

No, the Shia families I know in Germany do not think like that so please do not talk for everyone.

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2 minutes ago, Muslim96 said:

No, the Shia families I know in Germany do not think like that so please do not talk for everyone.

Okay.. 

... except for some internet mujtahids and a shia families in Germany. 

Still that doesn't reduce merits of this eid one bit. 

Edited by Sirius_Bright

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2 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Okay.. 

... except for some internet mujtahids and a shia families in Germany. 

Still that doesn't reduce merits of this eid one bit. 

If you want to present your own personal (and wrong) statement as a global fact and put an Eid which is not even mentioned in Quran, ok. If you are happy with that, I am fine.

Edited by Muslim96

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1 minute ago, Muslim96 said:

If you want to present that wrong statement as a fact and put an Eid which is not even mentioned in Quran, ok. If you are happy with that, I am fine.

You guys think you can understand Quran, it's zahiri and batini meanings, interpretations. Not every verse can be taken at it's face value. Therefore we have infallibles to interpret the verse and let us know what exactly the most exalted wants to say. 

And yes, Eid e Ghadeer is mentioned in the Quran but you cannot perceive it. 

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1 minute ago, Sirius_Bright said:

You guys think you can understand Quran, it's zahiri and batini meanings, interpretations. Not every verse can be taken at it's face value. Therefore we have infallibles to interpret the verse and let us know what exactly the most exalted wants to say. 

And yes, Eid e Ghadeer is mentioned in the Quran but you cannot perceive it. 

Sure, my friend. :)

Edited by Muslim96

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On 8/20/2018 at 8:16 PM, 786:) said:

Most basic principle of hadith science is to throw out hadith that contradicts the Quran. There is a hadith from Imam Al-Sadiq that says something along the lines of: If you hear a hadith that has my name attached to it and it goes against the Quran then throw away the hadith. I am not well versed in hadith reference, but iA I will find it.

So my point is, the Quran gives us concrete evidence of a superiority of the night of Qadr. Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى does not mention any other night anywhere near to such fazilat. We can't bring in hadith to support the superiority of another night. Because the other night would be contradicting the Quran. Yes, Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى did not use the word "best", but we can imply from his words that it is truly the best night as he did not mention any other night to such status.

Let me give you another example that might hit home better. The Quran calls the prophets of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى the chosen ones of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى. Now a Sunni brings in a narration stating that Umar ibn Khattab is better than Musa (as). We as shias would open up the Quran to dismantle that hadith as the Quran takes superiority over hadith.

Neither of your examples hold weight because they are both examples of Qiyas.

In both cases you are basing your conclusion on assumptions rather than the actual words of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى

Either way, I dont see the overall relevance of this topic. The eids are not in contradiction to one another and nor are the nights of the year. 

Wallahu a'lam 

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3 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

You guys think you can understand Quran, it's zahiri and batini meanings, interpretations. Not every verse can be taken at it's face value. Therefore we have infallibles to interpret the verse and let us know what exactly the most exalted wants to say. 

And yes, Eid e Ghadeer is mentioned in the Quran but you cannot perceive it. 

I dont see why its important for it to be mentioned in the Qur'an in the first place. Hijab is not specifically mentioned either, yet that doesn't make it any less important than things which are mentioned in the Qur'an.

An authentic hadith of the prophet and the aimmah is also hujjah upon us. After all, it is the Quran itself that commands us to obey Allah swt and the holy prophet (pbuh). 

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Stockholm Islamic Center to host recitation of Arafah supplication

 

August 20, 2018 - 7:43 PM News Code : 906230 Source : IQNALink: 
Stockholm Islamic Center to host recitation of Arafah supplication
 

The Imam Ali (AS) Islamic Center in Stockholm, Sweden, will host a program on Tuesday in which the Arafah Supplication is recited. 

http://en.abna24.com/news/europe/stockholm-islamic-center-to-host-recitation-of-arafah-supplication_906230.html

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TEHRAN, August 21 - Muslims are celebrating Eid al-Adha as over 2 million pilgrims carry out the final rites of the hajj in Saudi Arabia.

https://www.yjc.ir/en/news/27705/muslims-celebrate-eid-al-adha-as-pilgrims-conduct-hajj-rites

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We Christians, along with Muslims and Jews, believe in the Adha event when God redeemed the son of Abraham. What a joyful celebration that must be... commemorating when God gave a substitutional sacrifice for mankind. We see this as a paradigm of the perfect and final sacrifice God would provide for the sins of the world, sending His Son Jesus, God born as a man, spotless and sinless, to die in our place, so that we who put our trust in Him, may have eternal life.

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On 8/21/2018 at 5:12 AM, 786:) said:

Lol read my first reply to your original post and it will all make sense. It’s the minority effect. Emphasize difference.

haha....it was the other way round. it was hijacked by the second caliph. here's the proof.

Hadith No: 44
Narrated/Authority of Umar bin Al-Khattab
Listed in: Belief

Once a Jew said to me, "O the chief of believers! There is a verse in your Holy Book Which is read by all of you (Muslims), and had it been revealed to us, we would have taken that day (on which it was revealed as a day of celebration." 'Umar bin Al-Khattab asked, "Which is that verse?" The Jew replied, "This day I have perfected your religion For you, completed My favor upon you, And have chosen for you Islam as your religion." (5:3) 'Umar replied,"No doubt, we know when and where this verse was revealed to the Prophet. It was Friday and the Prophet was standing at 'Arafat (i.e. the Day of Hajj)"

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On 8/20/2018 at 2:55 PM, Muslim96 said:

Salam.

When is Eid? Which Marja says what?

Also, why did nobody post about Eid? I noticed that while for Sunnis it is a very important day, Shias do not pay that much attention to this day as can be seen here. That is sad in my opinion.

Wa Aleikum Salaam And Eid al Adha to you and to others.

Perhaps some people don't understand how serious this day is, but in Shi'a Islam too it is very important day. People who take it seriously will do the possible 'Amaal of the day and remember the events of Ibrahim (as). 

It's been narrated from Imam al-Sadiq (a) from his forefathers (a) that "Imam Ali (a) liked to make himself free in four nights of the year: the first night of Rajab, the night at the middle of Sha'ban, the nights of Eid al-Fitr, and Eid al-Adha."

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1 hour ago, justAnothermuslim said:

haha....it was the other way round. it was hijacked by the second caliph. here's the proof.

Hadith No: 44
Narrated/Authority of Umar bin Al-Khattab
Listed in: Belief

Once a Jew said to me, "O the chief of believers! There is a verse in your Holy Book Which is read by all of you (Muslims), and had it been revealed to us, we would have taken that day (on which it was revealed as a day of celebration." 'Umar bin Al-Khattab asked, "Which is that verse?" The Jew replied, "This day I have perfected your religion For you, completed My favor upon you, And have chosen for you Islam as your religion." (5:3) 'Umar replied,"No doubt, we know when and where this verse was revealed to the Prophet. It was Friday and the Prophet was standing at 'Arafat (i.e. the Day of Hajj)"

So far I only find this hadith narrated by Umar, do we have other witnesses about exactly this day the verse 5:3 was revealed? While Ghadeer is Mutawatir. 

Edited by Abu Nur

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