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In the Name of God بسم الله

Paradise for all monotheists

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Salam aleykom, 

I just came across this:

"It is reported from al-Sadiq (as): Verily, Allah, Blessed and Exalted be He, has taken an oath by His Dignity and Glory that He will never punish the people who believe in His Unity with Hell-fire.15

It is reported from the Prophet (S): The one whom Allah has blessed with belief in Divine Unity shall have Heaven as his reward.16"

https://www.al-islam.org/principles-faith-usul-al-din-husayn-vahid-khorasani/divine-unity-tawhid

So this seems to be saying that every monotheist of every religion will go to heaven, right? Or am I missing something? 

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Tawhid is not just monotheism. The reality is, shirk is not limited to believing in two gods - few people do, and even the jahili Arabs believed in one ultimate Creator. Jews for example are very "mon

I have had many quarrels with one my aqcuintance whi is Salafi/Wahhabi - he always speaks around - Only Muslims will go to Jannnah, no Shias, no Sufis, no Christaianss, no this and no that.... I

The point of my post above was to show that Christians, Jews, and even many Muslims are not strictly "monotheistic" just because they claim to believe in one God. Shirk can simply be listening to the

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2 hours ago, Carlzone said:

Salam aleykom, 

I just came across this:

"It is reported from al-Sadiq (as): Verily, Allah, Blessed and Exalted be He, has taken an oath by His Dignity and Glory that He will never punish the people who believe in His Unity with Hell-fire.15

It is reported from the Prophet (S): The one whom Allah has blessed with belief in Divine Unity shall have Heaven as his reward.16"

https://www.al-islam.org/principles-faith-usul-al-din-husayn-vahid-khorasani/divine-unity-tawhid

So this seems to be saying that every monotheist of every religion will go to heaven, right? Or am I missing something? 

No. There is no belief in tawheed without nubuwwah, no belief in nubuwwah without imamah. 

If you disbelieve in one of them you don't believe in tawhid, therefore not a nuwahhid.

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1 hour ago, Sumerian said:

No. There is no belief in tawheed without nubuwwah, no belief in nubuwwah without imamah. 

If you disbelieve in one of them you don't believe in tawhid, therefore not a nuwahhid.

Back up your claims with explicit ayahs from the Quran. I can pinpoint several verses that clearly say belief in Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and judgement day is suffice for salvation.

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47 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Back up your claims with explicit ayahs from the Quran. I can pinpoint several verses that clearly say belief in Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and judgement day is suffice for salvation.

I'm not a Qur'anist. But here you go; disbelief in one of the Prophets = Jahannam.

Indeed, those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and wish to discriminate between Allah and His messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in others," and wish to adopt a way in between - Those are the disbelievers (AL-KAFIROON), truly. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment. [Nisa:150-1]

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@Qa'im

Thank you for your elaborate post. I didn't mean me as a shiawannabe. I meant - doesn't this mean that Christians and other monotheists can go to heaven as well if they don't do shirk? I have been told by a sheikh that they can go to heaven too so in that case not the same rules apply to them as for shias. 

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I have had many quarrels with one my aqcuintance whi is Salafi/Wahhabi - he always speaks around - Only Muslims will go to Jannnah, no Shias, no Sufis, no Christaianss, no this and no that....

I am telling him - You cannot know about yourself even, we do not know who will be saved and who not - all this is in God's Will, Inša'Allāh! But all we know - is that Allah is Most Merciful and Just! And He acts only according to His own free will, and this is not up to human speculations!

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:bismillah:

Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 142:
أَمْ حَسِبْتُمْ أَن تَدْخُلُوا الْجَنَّةَ وَلَمَّا يَعْلَمِ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ جَاهَدُوا مِنكُمْ وَيَعْلَمَ الصَّابِرِينَ

Do you think that you will enter the garden while Allah has not yet known those who strive hard from among you, and (He has not) known the patient.
(English - Shakir)

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8 hours ago, Carlzone said:

Thank you for your elaborate post. I didn't mean me as a shiawannabe. I meant - doesn't this mean that Christians and other monotheists can go to heaven as well if they don't do shirk? I have been told by a sheikh that they can go to heaven too so in that case not the same rules apply to them as for shias. 

The point of my post above was to show that Christians, Jews, and even many Muslims are not strictly "monotheistic" just because they claim to believe in one God. Shirk can simply be listening to the advice of someone instead of God. It can be fearing someone instead of God. It can be giving our allegiance to a false Imam. It can be believing in a God with human attributes. There are many major and minor forms of shirk. So when the hadith says that Allah will not punish a muwahhid, it's not saying every "monotheist", even Hitler was a monotheist.

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11 hours ago, Sumerian said:

I'm not a Qur'anist. But here you go; disbelief in one of the Prophets = Jahannam.

Indeed, those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and wish to discriminate between Allah and His messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in others," and wish to adopt a way in between - Those are the disbelievers (AL-KAFIROON), truly. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment. [Nisa:150-1]

This is not the same as you initially suggested.

Denial is different to ignorance. 

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3 hours ago, zambala said:

I have had many quarrels with one my aqcuintance whi is Salafi/Wahhabi - he always speaks around - Only Muslims will go to Jannnah, no Shias, no Sufis, no Christaianss, no this and no that....

I am telling him - You cannot know about yourself even, we do not know who will be saved and who not - all this is in God's Will, Inša'Allāh! But all we know - is that Allah is Most Merciful and Just! And He acts only according to His own free will, and this is not up to human speculations!

Everything is in God's hands. God can even change the rules if he wishes to.

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12 hours ago, Carlzone said:

Everything is in God's hands. God can even change the rules if he wishes to.

 There is al-bada, but there is no alternation in creation such as "We have all come from non existence because of Allah." There is no alrenation in this, nor in justice, that is limitations itself.

[Yusufali 13:11] For each (such person) there are (angels) in succession, before and behind him: They guard him by command of Allah. Allah does not change a people's lot unless they change what is in their hearts. But when (once) Allah willeth a people's punishment, there can be no turning it back, nor will they find, besides Him, any to protect.

[Pickthal 33:62] That was the way of Allah in the case of those who passed away of old; thou wilt not find for the way of Allah aught of power to change.

[Yusufali 17:77] (This was Our) way with the messengers We sent before thee: thou wilt find no change in Our ways.

And at what point does our ability to do things start? Imam Musa al‑Kazim (peace be upon him) said,

"A man acquires that ability when four condi­tions are fulfilled:

1. when there is nothing to hinder his plans;

2 his health and

3 the faculties (needed for that work) are up to the required standard; and

4 Allah provides him the occasion of that work. When all these conditions are fulfilled, a man becomes capable of acting according to his own free will."

When asked for an example, the Imam said,

"Let us suppose that there is a man, without any hindrance, of good health and proper strength; yet he cannot commit adultery unless he finds a woman. When he gets a woman (and the fourth condition is fulfilled), then it is up to him to choose one of the two alternatives: either he controls his evil emotions and saves himself as (Prophet) Yusuf did, or he commits adultery. If he protects himself from that sin, it will not be by compulsion of Allah (as some people think). And if he commits the sin, it does not mean that he was above the power of Allah (as others think)." 7

https://www.al-islam.org/justice-god-sayyid-saeed-akhtar-rizv

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[Shakir 5:69] Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.

Messenger Isa ibn Mariam (AS) had Injeel, those who followed it and believed in it what prophet and Messenger Isa (AS) said are counted as believers. Same with any prophet before Prophet Muhammed (SAAS) To be believer thise days its about thouheed, prophethood and wilyat, and you need practice and understand properly. 

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On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 10:31 PM, Qa'im said:

but in 9:31 in the Quran, they were described as taking their rabbis as gods besides Allah-s.w.t.

You are understanding this incorrectly. Context shows that a few people have -and do- view rabbis, monks, priests and lsa-a.s. as arbaban, "lords" in the sense of intercessors as well as substitutes for Allah-s.w.t. See: @Qa'im above for a different wording.

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2 hours ago, AliAskari14 said:

 There is al-bada, but there is no alternation in creation such as "We have all come from non existence because of Allah." There is no alrenation in this, nor in justice, that is limitations itself.

[Yusufali 13:11] For each (such person) there are (angels) in succession, before and behind him: They guard him by command of Allah. Allah does not change a people's lot unless they change what is in their hearts. But when (once) Allah willeth a people's punishment, there can be no turning it back, nor will they find, besides Him, any to protect.

[Pickthal 33:62] That was the way of Allah in the case of those who passed away of old; thou wilt not find for the way of Allah aught of power to change.

[Yusufali 17:77] (This was Our) way with the messengers We sent before thee: thou wilt find no change in Our ways.

What I meant is that God can decide to show rahma and save people who were supposed to end up in hell if he wants to. That's entirely in his hands. We can't tell him "no you can't let X enter paradise".

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1 minute ago, Carlzone said:

What I meant is that God can decide to show rahma and save people who were supposed to end up in hell if he wants to. That's entirely in his hands. We can't tell him "no you can't let X enter paradise".

Qadr should not be talked trought philosophy. 

We belive Allah wont do injustice, and it is mentioned in hadiht that poeple will only get judged according their intentions. 

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2 hours ago, AliAskari14 said:

Qadr should not be talked trought philosophy. 

We belive Allah wont do injustice, and it is mentioned in hadiht that poeple will only get judged according their intentions. 

Well, if one says that God can't show rahma and save people from hell, aren't one limiting God then? 

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15 hours ago, Carlzone said:

Well, if one says that God can't show rahma and save people from hell, aren't one limiting God then? 

No, because everyone is responsible of their own intentions. But if one says Allah is responsible for people going to hell or paradise then one does not belive in freedom of choice to form an intention, even in limited one. The verse says:

 Yusufali 13:11 For each (such person) there are (angels) in succession, before and behind him: They guard him by command of Allah. Allah does not change a people's lot unless they change what is in their hearts. But when (once) Allah willeth a people's punishment, there can be no turning it back, nor will they find, besides Him, any to protect.

The confusion is that people will be judged according their intention, not according the material deeds. Deeds without understanding have litle to non-value (batil). So even person who does good deeds materially can be bad person, if he dont understand anything and disbeliefs in Allah. Special mercy is to have clear understanding about religion and act according to it. Then my question is, who are thise poeple of hell? Thise are the ones that have clear intention to disobey Allah. Like the hadith says:

Surely, people of Hell are eternally in Hell because their intention was if they lived in this world eternally they would disobey God eternally, likewise people of Paradise will be eternally in Paradise becasue their intention was if they lived in this world eternally they would worship God eternally.” (al-Kaafi, vol.2 p.85)

T

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15 hours ago, Carlzone said:

@AliAskari14

Don't we have ayat in the Quran that says that God guides whoever he wants? Bidoona hisaab? And that God does what he wants?

Yes, but we cant take ayas separately. If we do it will form totally different meaning.

https://www.al-islam.org/radiance-secrets-prayer-muhsin-qaraati/intention-niyyah

Intention is the pillar of worship. If an action is done without intention, or has an ungodly intention behind it, it will be invalid (batil).

Intention is the pillar of worship and the essence and foundation of action. The most sacred acts are spoiled because of the mixed intentions behind them, while the simplest acts gain in value on account of the purely good intentions behind them. Anyone who strives in the way of God will also be guided by God toward His path:

وَالَّذِينَ جَاهَدُوا فِينَا لَنَهْدِيَنَّهُمْ سُبُلَنَا

“As for those who strive in Us, We shall surely guide them in Our ways.”1

Allah only guides to Allah ways those whom Allah loves, those are the ones with pure intentions.

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[Shakir 42:52] And thus did We reveal to you an inspired book by Our command. You did not know what the Book was, nor (what) the faith (was), but We made it a light, guiding thereby whom We please of Our servants; and most surely you show the way to the right path:
[Pickthal 42:52] And thus have We inspired in thee (Muhammad) a Spirit of Our command. Thou knewest not what the Scripture was, nor what the Faith. But We have made it a light whereby We guide whom We will of Our bondmen. And lo! thou verily dost guide unto a right path,
[Yusufali 42:52] And thus have We, by Our Command, sent inspiration to thee: thou knewest not (before) what was Revelation, and what was Faith; but We have made the (Qur'an) a Light, wherewith We guide such of Our servants as We will; and verily thou dost guide (men) to the Straight Way,-

[Shakir 13:27] And those who disbelieve say: Why is not a sign sent down upon him by his Lord? Say: Surely Allah makes him who will go astray, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).
[Pickthal 13:27] Those who disbelieve say: If only a portent were sent down upon him from his Lord! Say: Lo! Allah sendeth whom He will astray, and guideth unto Himself all who turn (unto Him),
[Yusufali 13:27] The Unbelievers say: "Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?" Say: "Truly Allah leaveth, to stray, whom He will; But He guideth to Himself those who turn to Him in penitence,-
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 13:27]

[Shakir 14:4] And We did not send any messenger but with the language of his people, so that he might explain to them clearly; then Allah makes whom He pleases err and He guides whom He pleases and He is the Mighty, the Wise.
[Pickthal 14:4] And We never sent a messenger save with the language of his folk, that he might make (the message) clear for them. Then Allah sendeth whom He will astray, and guideth whom He will. He is the Mighty, the Wise.
[Yusufali 14:4] We sent not a messenger except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now Allah leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom.
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 14:4]

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Allah guides those who have pure intentions and leads astray those with evil ones. Its not random. 

“And whomsoever Allah wills to guide, He opens his breast to Islam, and whomsoever He wills to send astray, He makes his breast closed and constricted, as if he is climbing up to the sky.” [Al-An’aam, 6:125]

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14 hours ago, AliAskari14 said:

Allah guides those who have pure intentions and leads astray those with evil ones. Its not random. 

“And whomsoever Allah wills to guide, He opens his breast to Islam, and whomsoever He wills to send astray, He makes his breast closed and constricted, as if he is climbing up to the sky.” [Al-An’aam, 6:125]

Yes, indeed. 

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In Quran it is clearly mentioned at two places

Surely, those who believe,   those who are Jewish, the Christians,   and the converts;   anyone who
  (1) believes in God
(2) believes in the Last Day, and  
(3) leads a righteous life,  
 will receive their recompense from their Lord; they  have  nothing  to  fear,   nor will they grieve [2:62, 5:69]

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On 8/17/2018 at 12:39 AM, Sumerian said:

I'm not a Qur'anist. But here you go; disbelief in one of the Prophets = Jahannam.

Indeed, those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and wish to discriminate between Allah and His messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in others," and wish to adopt a way in between - Those are the disbelievers (AL-KAFIROON), truly. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment. [Nisa:150-1]

You don’t have to be a Quranist to expect the guidelines of salvation from the words of the creator سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى himself.

Also, you still didn’t back up your claim. Sure, according to this verse you must believe in Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and his messenger (saw), but where is your bold claim about imamah? This is the very reason why our ulema have demoted imamah as usool e madhab instead of prior belief as usool e deen.

Unless you are claiming that Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى forgot to mention a requirement of salvation in the Quran....

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11 hours ago, 786:) said:

You don’t have to be a Quranist to expect the guidelines of salvation from the words of the creator سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى himself.

Also, you still didn’t back up your claim. Sure, according to this verse you must believe in Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and his messenger (saw), but where is your bold claim about imamah? This is the very reason why our ulema have demoted imamah as usool e madhab instead of prior belief as usool e deen.

Unless you are claiming that Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى forgot to mention a requirement of salvation in the Quran....

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْكُمْ ۖ فَإِنْ تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلًا {59}

[Shakir 4:59] O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.

Man kuntu mowlaa, hadthaa Alien mowlaa. To Whom I am master, this Ali is master.

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 Every People Will Be Summoned with Their Own Imam

Surah Isra’ – Verse 71

يَوْمَ نَدْعُواْ كُلَّ اُنَاسٍ بإِمَامِهِمْ فَمَنْ اُوتِيَ كِتَابَهُ بِيَمِينِهِ فَاُوْلَئِكَ يَقْرَءُونَ كِتَابَهُمْ وَلاَ يُظْلَمُونَ فَتِيلاً

71. “On the Day We shall call every people with their Imam (leader); then whoever is given his book in his right hand; then these will read their book (joyfully); and they will not be treated unjustly in the least.

https://www.al-islam.org/enlightening-commentary-light-holy-quran-vol-8/section-8-every-people-will-be-summoned-their-own

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11 hours ago, AliAskari14 said:

 Every People Will Be Summoned with Their Own Imam

Surah Isra’ – Verse 71

يَوْمَ نَدْعُواْ كُلَّ اُنَاسٍ بإِمَامِهِمْ فَمَنْ اُوتِيَ كِتَابَهُ بِيَمِينِهِ فَاُوْلَئِكَ يَقْرَءُونَ كِتَابَهُمْ وَلاَ يُظْلَمُونَ فَتِيلاً

71. “On the Day We shall call every people with their Imam (leader); then whoever is given his book in his right hand; then these will read their book (joyfully); and they will not be treated unjustly in the least.

https://www.al-islam.org/enlightening-commentary-light-holy-quran-vol-8/section-8-every-people-will-be-summoned-their-own

I read that as us rising with Rasoolallah (saw). He is our leader. I’m not sure who you think we will rise with. Anyways, here is a clear and concise verse from the words of our creator (swt):

“O you who have believed, believe in Allah and His Messenger and the Book that He sent down upon His Messenger and the Scripture which He sent down before. And whoever disbelieves in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers, and the Last Day has certainly gone far astray.”

an-Nisa 136

Interestingly, he mentions something as trivial as angels for salvation, but does not mention imamah. You can keep trying by sharing ambiguous verses. Just keep in mind that explicit verse outweighs implicit. For every ambiguous verse you might have, I have 10 explicit.

good luck!

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This may seems weird argument for you, but how would you know whats Quran if Allah has not sended it for you? We know that Allah did not send it for you, so who will give the right interpretation after Rasulllah (SAAS) has left this world. Because there must be right interpretation, there must be divinely guided Imam, or there would be no authentic revalation either. 

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9 hours ago, AliAskari14 said:

This may seems weird argument for you, but how would you know whats Quran if Allah has not sended it for you? We know that Allah did not send it for you, so who will give the right interpretation after Rasulllah (SAAS) has left this world. Because there must be right interpretation, there must be divinely guided Imam, or there would be no authentic revalation either. 

Who’s giving the right interpretation today? We have 500 different ayatollahs all claiming to be representatives of Imam mahdi with 500 different spins on fiqh. So, weak counter argument. Would’ve made more sense if you were an Ismaili trying to make that claim. We don’t have access to Imam Mahdi to give us the correct interpretation.

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