Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
ShiaChat.com
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Recommended Posts

  • Unregistered

The Future of Muslims in the West/Secular Countries.

1)Islamic Community & Education Centers. 

2)Integration in the Society at all levels- Social, Economic, political.

*****

1) Provides the foundation for 2).

1)Islamic Community & Education Centers.

Meaning Establishing/Supporting Full Time (kindergarten to High school(12 grades)) Accredited Schools which provide an Islamic educational Environment.

Any Comment/Advice/Recommendation/ Positive and Constructive feedback,  or any concerns for the benefit of the Muslims? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Great posts MashaAllah! And no, I don't expect any likes in return. 

I'm surprised no one is interested in discussing this, as this topic is about the future of the ummah. 

I believe the interest is lost when you ask people to make real sacrifices. Most people still want comfort and donya. 

The important question here is how do you reach deep down into their core belief system with values etc? How do you make them truly believe in the rewards Allah SWT has promised them? Because when they reach a high percentage of certainty in Allah SWTs promises then that sacrifice will be easy to make. But as long as donya is more believable than  the rewards in akhira it will continue to be difficult to make a sacrifice. 

Unfortunately research has shown that after three generations differences between the original population and immigrants disappear and immigrants start living the same way as natives. So the odds are against us living in the West. But there are exceptions of course. 

So how do we address the core question successfully before we build up on it with all of the questions that you posted in this thread?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

While l think most of the 'aggravated hysteria' from the show-off-for-myself islamophobes is over with, they will still be a problem in the background.

Keeping the next generation in school and mosque is the most important.

The emerging self-righteous self-assertion by the l.E.T.s will dwarf any collective voice of the ummah.

Couple of other thoughts, too, for later.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Dear, I see the same problem in today's world. 

Honestly speaking, whatever you achieve without Islam (or atleast a pure will) will only take you towards destruction. One of the main hurdles in our life is about "Islamic System".

Until and unless we have a complete Islamic System in our country, we can't reach the ideals.

Everything right from our education system to professions, will all be contaminated by either Western or Eastern policies.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
21 hours ago, S.M.H.A. said:

One of The biggest obstacle I see is our pursuit of Only material things and the status that comes with it.

Salam as I see from outsider view the most problem of westerners with Islam is that they have double standard for it ,from one hand they call themselves Globalists , or in general Europeans or Americans but in other hand when they face with Muslims they act as 19th century people that Muslims must consider the specified country that they live in it above Islam but westerners consider Christianity above belonging to a specified region for example they can be worry about Christians of Syria under ISIS threat but a Muslim can't be worry about Yemenis from Islamic view because he lives in an European or American country & must react it just from humanitarian view.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Unregistered

There is a fact that need to be mentioned at this point.

Regardless of all the attacks and brainwashing that is usually directed towards Women rights.

Our Women, play a critical role in our family structure. 

Religion/Love of the Ahlul Bayth(as) is transmitted to us through our Mothers. There is a saying that there is Paradise under the feet of a mother. My understanding is, its under the feet of those Mothers who talk towards the Path of the Ahlul Bayth(as), and take their babies with them along the same path. Meaning they are the custodians of this message and they safeguard it. Mothers lap is where our schooling starts and she feeds this love to us and as we grow she keep us on the path towards Ahlul Bayth(as). 

World understands and recognizes this reality, good women produce good generations. Good women is behind the success of every successful man. 

We will defend our women, from the poison, that is directed towards them. This freedom talk, this Hijab talk - which does have an impact of some women, and they fall prey to it, unfortunately they get recruited by the corporate agenda and exploited as cheap labor and great consumers/spenders. We can't help them, as they have chosen their path, good luck to them, but we can't let this effect the entire community.

So, you will understand that few rebels will not dictate the over all direction of a community. We recognize this and will continue to provide the environment that safeguards our most important asset. As this ensures a good, focused, productive, physically and psychologically healthy generation.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Unregistered
Quote

The important question here is how do you reach deep down into their core belief system with values etc? 

Say, Ya Ali(as)  یا علی

125. Amir al-mu'minin, peace be upon him, said: I am defining Islam as no one has defined before me: Islam is submission, submission is conviction, conviction is affirmation, affirmation is acknowledgement, acknowledgement is discharge (of obligations), and discharge of obligations is action.

125. وَ قَالَ عليه السلام: لَأَنْسُبَنَّ الْإِسْلَامَ نِسْبَةً لَمْ يَنْسُبْهَا أَحَدٌ قَبْلِى الْإِسْلَامُ هُوَ التَّسْلِيمُ وَ التَّسْلِيمُ هُوَ الْيَقِينُ وَ الْيَقِينُ هُوَ التَّصْدِيقُ وَ التَّصْدِيقُ هُوَ الْإِقْرَارُ وَ الْإِقْرَارُ هُوَ الْأَدَاءُ وَ الْأَدَاءُ هُوَ الْعَمَلُ .

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/selections-sayings-and-preaching-amir-al-muminin-ali#hadith-n-125

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Unregistered
Quote

How do you make them truly believe in the rewards Allah SWT has promised them? 

Say, Ya Ali(as)  یا علی

237. Amir al-mu'minin, peace be upon him, said: 

A group of people worshipped Allah out of desire for reward surely, this is the worship of traders.

Another group worshipped Allah out of fear; this is the worship of slaves.

Still another group worshipped Allah out of gratefulness; this is the worship of free men.

237. وقال عليه السلام : إِنَّ قَوْماً عَبَدُوا اللهَ رَغْبَةً فَتِلْكَ عِبَادَةُ التُّجَّارِ، وَإِنَّ قَوْماً عَبَدُوا اللهَ رَهْبَةً فَتِلْكَ عِبَادَةُ الْعَبِيدِ، وَإِنَّ قَوْماً عَبَدُوا اللهَ شُكْراً فَتِلْكَ عِبَادَةُ الاْحْرَارِ.

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/selections-sayings-and-preaching-amir-al-muminin-ali#hadith-n-237

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Unregistered
Quote

Unfortunately research has shown that after three generations differences between the original population and immigrants disappear and immigrants start living the same way as natives. So the odds are against us living in the West. But there are exceptions of course.

Research Sponsored/conducted/ marketed by the Natives or the immigrants? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Unregistered
Quote

Keeping the next generation in school and mosque is the most important.

Day care will not do the job of a Mother. Home environment and mothers involvement and direction/grooming at young age, school and Two Month plus in Muharram, One Month of Ramadhan, and at least four Eids, at least 27 others birth and other sad occasions programs.  Enough education for the layman/average people/kids

Living close to the Mosque/Husaniya will ensure there are always reminded/have access. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Unregistered
Quote

Until and unless we have a complete Islamic System in our country, we can't reach the ideals.

You are the Wali in your home. See how family (immediate and extended) reacts to it.  If you have the same issues that a government has at a larger scale, find solutions and keep the values alive at all costs. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Unregistered
Quote

I believe the interest is lost when you ask people to make real sacrifices. Most people still want comfort and donya. 

Kids bringing babies home and destroying their future, having STDs, getting use to  promiscuous lifestyle in schools, drugs and alcohol and destructive music, some dropping out of high school , few making to collage. Fast food restaurants replacing mothers healthy food, kids growing on junk - physicians / and pharmaceutical companies gaining more clients.

These issues will drown any material comforts parents may have temporary enjoyed at the expense  of sad and pharmaceutical depended future. No way to live. We do not consider t to be a successful life plan. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Unregistered
Quote

Honestly speaking, whatever you achieve without Islam (or atleast a pure will) will only take you towards destruction

If we start distinguishing between Government/Corporate needs/wants. 

And family and social needs. 

Material lifestyle has supported the gov/corporate treasury at the expense of family and social disintegration. 

If you were to plot the above, you will see an inverse relationship. So, the destruction is clear for all to see. If they are not distracted. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Unregistered
Quote

So how do we address the core question successfully before we build up on it with all of the questions that you posted in this thread?

I am not a scholar, or a student of Hawza. I am a layman, average person. I do not have the ability to address anything. I give you my layman/average person understanding at this time. 

One of the things that are core Values is the choice of your partner. You are not looking for a wife, you are looking for a Mother of your kids/one who will raise your generation base don Islamic values. Few advantages in this way of thinking and selection. Women are more social and they usually dive man to things...So, you need a women who will support you through this sacrifice and as both of you have a common goal- her lap is where the Imam(as) Trust is flourishing.

Individual issues are not the priority which are the leading cause of divorces in the world. You need a stable, and healthy, and loving home environment for the the next generation to be physically and psychologically health and be productive in this world and accomplish what they need to accomplish. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
2 hours ago, S.M.H.A. said:

Say, Ya Ali(as)  یا علی

125. Amir al-mu'minin, peace be upon him, said: I am defining Islam as no one has defined before me: Islam is submission, submission is conviction, conviction is affirmation, affirmation is acknowledgement, acknowledgement is discharge (of obligations), and discharge of obligations is action.

125. وَ قَالَ عليه السلام: لَأَنْسُبَنَّ الْإِسْلَامَ نِسْبَةً لَمْ يَنْسُبْهَا أَحَدٌ قَبْلِى الْإِسْلَامُ هُوَ التَّسْلِيمُ وَ التَّسْلِيمُ هُوَ الْيَقِينُ وَ الْيَقِينُ هُوَ التَّصْدِيقُ وَ التَّصْدِيقُ هُوَ الْإِقْرَارُ وَ الْإِقْرَارُ هُوَ الْأَدَاءُ وَ الْأَدَاءُ هُوَ الْعَمَلُ .

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/selections-sayings-and-preaching-amir-al-muminin-ali#hadith-n-125

Thank you brother, but this doesn't answer how you make people reach that submission? 

Many Muslims are Muslims of convenience. They submit to the words of Allah SWT only if it fits with their opinions and lifestyle. One can only remind them about submitting, but in the end it is their own choice. Even the prophets and imams a.s. who were infallible couldn't convince many people to submit to Allah SWT. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Unregistered
5 minutes ago, Carlzone said:

Thank you brother, but this doesn't answer how you make people reach that submission? 

Many Muslims are Muslims of convenience. They submit to the words of Allah SWT only if it fits with their opinions and lifestyle. One can only remind them about submitting, but in the end it is their own choice.

CHAPTER 2, VERSES 256-257

‘‘There is no compulsion in the religion’’ negates and disapproves compulsion and coercion in religion.

Religion is a set of truths which are believed in, and some of them are then acted upon.

In short, religion is belief and faith, it is a matter of conscience, and such a thing cannot be created by coercion and compulsion.

One may force someone to do a certain physical action against his will but he cannot be forced to believe against his will.

Belief follows reason and understanding; and nothing but reason and understanding can create it.

‘‘There is no compulsion in religion’’ may be treated as a bit of information or a piece of legislation. If it is information of a creative decree, it will give rise to a legislative order that compulsion should not be used in matters of belief and faith. And if it is an order in the form of information then the meaning is clear.

Apparently, this alternative is more correct, because the next sentence (‘‘truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error’’) gives the reason for this legislation.

And this prohibition of compulsion for religion is based on a factor of creation: the fact that compulsion can influence physical action but not matters connected with the heart and conscience.‘

‘Truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error’’:

As mentioned above, it gives the reason for the prohibition of compulsion.

A wise person resorts to compulsion only when the truth of the order :can not be explained, either because the person so coerced has no capacity to understand it or for some other reasons. But there is no need for compulsion in an important matter whose advantages and dis advantages are clearly defined and the reward and punishment of accepting and rejecting well-explained.

A man, in such a clear matter, should be free to choose his course of action himself — whether he takes it or rejects it,whether he wants the rewards of obedience or is prepared to take the punishment. The realities of religion have been explained, and its pathwell-laid; the divine revelation and prophetic explanation have illuminated this highway to the utmost degree. It has now been made clear that the religion is truth, that the only right thing is to accept it and follow it; and that if one deviates from this road he will fall in perdition. Why should anyone, after all these clarifications, compel others to follow the religon?......”

http://www.almizan.org/

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
3 hours ago, S.M.H.A. said:

There is a fact that need to be mentioned at this point.

Regardless of all the attacks and brainwashing that is usually directed towards Women rights.

Our Women, play a critical role in our family structure. 

Religion/Love of the Ahlul Bayth(as) is transmitted to us through our Mothers. There is a saying that there is Paradise under the feet of a mother. My understanding is, its under the feet of those Mothers who talk towards the Path of the Ahlul Bayth(as), and take their babies with them along the same path. Meaning they are the custodians of this message and they safeguard it. Mothers lap is where our schooling starts and she feeds this love to us and as we grow she keep us on the path towards Ahlul Bayth(as). 

World understands and recognizes this reality, good women produce good generations. Good women is behind the success of every successful man. 

We will defend our women, from the poison, that is directed towards them. This freedom talk, this Hijab talk - which does have an impact of some women, and they fall prey to it, unfortunately they get recruited by the corporate agenda and exploited as cheap labor and great consumers/spenders. We can't help them, as they have chosen their path, good luck to them, but we can't let this effect the entire community.

So, you will understand that few rebels will not dictate the over all direction of a community. We recognize this and will continue to provide the environment that safeguards our most important asset. As this ensures a good, focused, productive, physically and psychologically healthy generation.

Women need strong and responsible Muslim men in order to do a good job. 

Research has shown that when men treat women badly their sons suffer more than their daughters. Probably this leads to weak sons/men who can't take care of their families when growing up. The father's roll and "performance" is vital for their sons and family. 

Men influence women more than women influence men, so it is vital that men take their wajibaat seriously. Unfortunately the culture in the west encourage men to act like children and just play around. That affects brothers growing up in the west and has devastating consequences. Some brothers even expect their women to be like men. This is how family structure goes downhill and the likelihood of the children getting lost increases. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
2 minutes ago, S.M.H.A. said:

CHAPTER 2, VERSES 256-257

‘‘There is no compulsion in the religion’’ negates and disapproves compulsion and coercion in religion.

Religion is a set of truths which are believed in, and some of them are then acted upon.

In short, religion is belief and faith, it is a matter of conscience, and such a thing cannot be created by coercion and compulsion.

One may force someone to do a certain physical action against his will but he cannot be forced to believe against his will.

Belief follows reason and understanding; and nothing but reason and understanding can create it.

‘‘There is no compulsion in religion’’ may be treated as a bit of information or a piece of legislation. If it is information of a creative decree, it will give rise to a legislative order that compulsion should not be used in matters of belief and faith. And if it is an order in the form of information then the meaning is clear.

Apparently, this alternative is more correct, because the next sentence (‘‘truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error’’) gives the reason for this legislation.

And this prohibition of compulsion for religion is based on a factor of creation: the fact that compulsion can influence physical action but not matters connected with the heart and conscience.‘

‘Truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error’’:

As mentioned above, it gives the reason for the prohibition of compulsion.

A wise person resorts to compulsion only when the truth of the order :can not be explained, either because the person so coerced has no capacity to understand it or for some other reasons. But there is no need for compulsion in an important matter whose advantages and dis advantages are clearly defined and the reward and punishment of accepting and rejecting well-explained.

A man, in such a clear matter, should be free to choose his course of action himself — whether he takes it or rejects it,whether he wants the rewards of obedience or is prepared to take the punishment. The realities of religion have been explained, and its pathwell-laid; the divine revelation and prophetic explanation have illuminated this highway to the utmost degree. It has now been made clear that the religion is truth, that the only right thing is to accept it and follow it; and that if one deviates from this road he will fall in perdition. Why should anyone, after all these clarifications, compel others to follow the religon?......”

http://www.almizan.org/

Oh sorry, I meant help people submit. English is not my native language so sometimes I translate the words from the European language that I speak directly into English and it comes out in a different meaning.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
3 hours ago, S.M.H.A. said:

Research Sponsored/conducted/ marketed by the Natives or the immigrants? 

Natives, but this was not used or spread as propaganda. This was information I learnt at the university as the only Muslim student in class, so it was for natives. As I understood they were interested to speed up this process (even though they didn't say it out loud). They also mentioned that female immigrants conformed to the European societies faster than immigrant men. 

 

At another course I saw statistics over different immigrant/ethnic groups. White Caucasian/european men stayed and took care of their families more often than any other group. While immigrant men more often abandoned their families. This is just awful. How is islam gonna survive if this is not dealt with?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
1 hour ago, S.M.H.A. said:

Kids bringing babies home and destroying their future, having STDs, getting use to  promiscuous lifestyle in schools, drugs and alcohol and destructive music, some dropping out of high school , few making to collage. Fast food restaurants replacing mothers healthy food, kids growing on junk - physicians / and pharmaceutical companies gaining more clients.

These issues will drown any material comforts parents may have temporary enjoyed at the expense  of sad and pharmaceutical depended future. No way to live. We do not consider t to be a successful life plan. 

I agree, but wealthy people face these problems to a much lesser extent as their money can buy them food and a good enough environment that makes university education much more likely as well.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
37 minutes ago, S.M.H.A. said:

How?

That is my question. How can one help people submit?

My own conclusion is to just remind them and make them aware of their inconsistency in religious matters. After that it is only their choice to choose Allah SWTs truth or to follow their own opinions and preferences. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
40 minutes ago, S.M.H.A. said:

Meaning to be a bread winner? and men chill at home and friends

Yes but also in the home. Handing over all the responsibility to the woman while they are acting like a child following whatever temporary fun/lust. 

Obviously this is not islam even if they claim to be Muslims. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Unregistered
2 minutes ago, Carlzone said:

That is my question. How can one help people submit?

My own conclusion is to just remind them and make them aware of their inconsistency in religious matters. After that it is only their choice to choose Allah SWTs truth or to follow their own opinions and preferences. 

That is all we are doing, reminding them and getting feedback as to who they see the Future of Muslims in the west. No one can force anyone to send their kids to Islamic schools or move their jobs and homes close to a Husaniyia/Mosque.

what other options are there, if one does not do this ? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...