Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
MartyS

What do these words of Jesus mean?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

When someone chooses to believe in Jesus Christ as Savior, he does so only in response to the urging of God's Holy Spirit. God does the urging; then we decide to believe or not believe. Nobody can believe in Jesus without God's help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Truth is universal, there is only one God who is the Absolute and rest are relative, any religion that follow this principle and also encourage doing good deeds so the heart can reach the peaceful state, will gain everlasting paradise, no matter which religion it is. Christians, Jews, Muslims etc will reach to heaven when they follow the Truth. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MarV said:

When someone chooses to believe in Jesus Christ as Savior, he does so only in response to the urging of God's Holy Spirit. God does the urging; then we decide to believe or not believe. Nobody can believe in Jesus without God's help.

Jesus (عليه السلام) is truth, so is Muhammad (saws) so are all the Prophets of God, they are all saviors. They preached the same principles, and anyone who believe in them will reach salvation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If only the People of the Scripture would believe and ward off (evil), surely We should remit their sins from them and surely We should bring them into Gardens of Delight. (65) If they had observed the Torah and the Gospel and that which was revealed unto them from their Lord, they would surely have been nourished from above them and from beneath their feet. Among them there are people who are moderate, but many of them are of evil conduct. (66)

http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.pickthall/5:65

Lo! those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Sabaeans, and Christians - Whosoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve. (69)

http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.pickthall/5:69

They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no Allah save the One Allah. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve. (73) Will they not rather turn unto Allah and seek forgiveness of Him? For Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (74) The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away! (75)

http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.pickthall/5:73

Al-Ma'ida p 119-120

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/26/2018 at 11:16 PM, Laayla said:

@MartyS

How is your health?  Were you able to spend Christmas with your family? 

Merry Christmas to all our Christian members on ShiaChat.

Thank you for inquiring about my health, Laayla. This was my entry in my journal today...

God is my healer. The awful tumor that was growing outside my body has been removed. The incision healed after two months. My body is intact. I have full motion of my arm. I was broken, but now I am whole. God is faithful. God is good.

Even more importantly, God has healed my family. We were broken. Now we are whole. It is well. It is well with my soul.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎3‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 9:39 PM, Abu Nur said:

Jesus (عليه السلام) is truth, so is Muhammad (saws) so are all the Prophets of God, they are all saviors. They preached the same principles, and anyone who believe in them will reach salvation. 

The Bible teaches in John 14:6 that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life and that nobody comes to the father except through Him. The Prophets taught the truth and although they are highly revered in our history and in the Bible, they cannot bring salvation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, MarV said:

The Bible teaches in John 14:6 that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life and that nobody comes to the father except through Him. The Prophets taught the truth and although they are highly revered in our history and in the Bible, they cannot bring salvation.

This statement is exactly found in Qur'an:

Indeed, with Allah religion is Islām, and those who were given the Book did not differ except after knowledge had come to them, out of envy among themselves. And whoever defies Allah’s signs [should know that] Allah is swift at reckoning. 3:19

The God religion have always been same and one, every Prophets mission were to guide to the same religion. Time passed where people started to give wrong interpretations to the words of God which mislead them, so God sended Jesus (عليه السلام) to correct them. Same happened agein and thus Prophet Muhammad (saws) was sended to the people. What you find in the old and new testament, all it's principles and teaching is found in Qur'an. In Islam, A Christian gets salvation when they truly and sincerely practice the new testament principles that are resonance with God religion.

A sincere Christian who reject and does not recognize Muhammad (saws) out of ignorance, how can such a person be even judged and enter to hellfire? It is impossible, because rejecting Muhammad (saws) out of ignorance while believe and practice the teaching of God that have been taught by all previous Prophets, does not make the person kafir (rejector). What make person rejector is when they see the truth  and recognize in front of them that Prophet Muhammad (saws) teaching are same what others Prophets were teaching, while still rejecting him, is exactly rejecting God. This is described in Qur'an as following:

Those to whom We have given the Scripture recognize it as they recognize their [own] sons. Those who will lose themselves [in the Hereafter] do not believe. 6:20

This same thing happened exactly in time of Jesus (عليه السلام) when part of Jews rejected Jesus, even when they know very well that what Jesus taught were truth.

Edited by Abu Nur

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Respectfully, I submit that what sets Jesus apart from all other Prophets is that Jesus was sinless, and therefore able to take onto Himself the sins of the world and pay the price for them, on behalf of all (Christians, Jews, Muslims, all) who believe in Him. He is able to give those who put their trust in Him, His own righteousness, which gives us right-standing with God, forgiveness from sin, eternal salvation.

"For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." - 2 Corinthians 5:21

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/21/2019 at 10:38 AM, MartyS said:

Respectfully, I submit that what sets Jesus apart from all other Prophets is that Jesus was sinless, and therefore able to take onto Himself the sins of the world and pay the price for them, on behalf of all (Christians, Jews, Muslims, all) who believe in Him. He is able to give those who put their trust in Him, His own righteousness, which gives us right-standing with God, forgiveness from sin, eternal salvation.

"For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." - 2 Corinthians 5:21

Respectfully, Muslims don't believe Jesus(peace be upon him) 'paid' for the sins of the world. In the view of Islam, God is Just, so He(s.w.a) would not penalize someone for something they did not do, even if the person chose to do this voluntarily, this is something that is against the concept of Justice, which we all believe in, and this requires no further proof. 

We believe that Jesus(peace be upon him) was sent by God to guide humanity to the Truth of God and away from sin. This was the mission of all the Prophets. The unique things about Jesus were 

1) He spoke about the fact that he was a Prophet and sent by God while he was still in the cradle

2) He was born of a virgin women(Mary, may peace be upon her) , without having a father

3) He was one of only 5 Prophets who had a book (called the Injil) that was the direct Word of God. 

4) He will return to Earth before the Day of Judgement and will pray with Imam Al Asr(the Imam of the Age)(may Allah hasten his return)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/22/2019 at 1:38 AM, MartyS said:

Respectfully, I submit that what sets Jesus apart from all other Prophets is that Jesus was sinless, and therefore able to take onto Himself the sins of the world and pay the price for them, on behalf of all (Christians, Jews, Muslims, all) who believe in Him.

You mention Jews but Jews don't believe in him, brother.

Nor do Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, and many others.

Who is going to pay for them?

Surely, there would be some people, however few, in those religions,. who are also deserving of heaven, by virtue of their good deeds.

And by the way, the only non-Christians in all the world who truly believe in Jesus are Muslims. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder how many European Christians in the west would expect Jesus (peace be upon him) to have tanned skin, dark eyes (not blue) as he probably was because he was a Jew and not blue eyes and blond hair as they perceive him. That is the danger of racism. We have to take this as an example within every community. This type of closed mindset can drive people away from the word of the creator. 

Edited by Murtaza1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, baqar said:

You mention Jews but Jews don't believe in him, brother.

Nor do Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, and many others.

I wish especially the Hindus would stop messing around with Islam. I can’t believe they have a supposed grave in India and say he visited India astagfurillah. There is a lot of online propaganda going on. I see people from India editing Wikipedia as they please. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, baqar said:

You mention Jews but Jews don't believe in him, brother.

Jesus came to Earth to bring the good news of God's favor and His gift of salvation through His own death on the cross and resurrection from the dead to the house of Israel. But they rejected him and crucified Him (accomplishing God's plan). They didn't recognize the Savior they had waited millennia for when He came. So God called the gentiles to come to the banquet instead, to provoke the Jews by jealousy. But God says they will come to believe. They will recognize the One they pierced...

"And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn. - Zechariah 12:10

"On that day there shall be a fountain opened for the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and uncleanness. - Zechariah 13:1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MartyS said:

"And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn. - Zechariah 12:10

"On that day there shall be a fountain opened for the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and uncleanness. - Zechariah 13:1

Even if those verses refer to Jesus, which is not easily very clear, modern Jews do not believe in Jesus as the Messiah.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/11/2019 at 9:33 PM, baqar said:

Even if those verses refer to Jesus, which is not easily very clear, modern Jews do not believe in Jesus as the Messiah.

Yes. I agree. And I believe that does not negate God's faithfulness to the Jews at the end of human history. These verses are prophecies that may not have yet been completely realized; however, Jesus did say He fulfilled this prophecy of Isaiah...

17 And the scroll of the Prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written,
18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, 
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor." 
20 And he rolled up the scroll and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him.
21 And he began to say to them, "Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing." - Luke 4:17-21

The Jews did not recognize Jesus that day as their Messiah. In fact, they tried to kill him for speaking those and these words...

24 And he said, "Truly, I say to you, no Prophet is acceptable in his hometown.
25 But in truth, I tell you, there were many widows in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the heavens were shut up three years and six months, and a great famine came over all the land,
26 and Elijah was sent to none of them but only to Zarephath, in the land of Sidon, to a woman who was a widow.
27 And there were many lepers in Israel in the time of the Prophet Elisha, and none of them was cleansed, but only Naaman the Syrian."
28 When they heard these things, all in the synagogue were filled with wrath.
29 And they rose up and drove him out of the town and brought him to the brow of the hill on which their town was built, so that they could throw him down the cliff.
30 But passing through their midst, he went away. - Luke 4:24-30

Nevertheless, these next verses make it clear that God will yet accept the sacrifice of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins on behalf of the offspring of Abraham, who are literally Isaac and Ishmael...

16 For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham.
17 Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. - Hebrews 2:16-17

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, MartyS said:

Nevertheless, these next verses make it clear that God will yet accept the sacrifice of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins on behalf of the offspring of Abraham, who are literally Isaac and Ishmael...

 

Hi Personally  I don’t see any sacrifice in following verses 

 

3 hours ago, MartyS said:

The Spirit of the Lord Is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, 
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

We have same versese in Qur'an that says oppressed people will inherit Earth also it mentions in other verse that Prophet Isa (عليه السلام) /Jesus supported by the spirit of Allah 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/8/2018 at 10:04 PM, Christianity said:

And yes, we agree with that too. God is simple, not contained in space and time. Christ is in a glorified/spiritual body as well. The throne is obviously metaphorical. Though I thought Muslims did believe the throne was literal, at least that is what I have seen on Sunni sites. 

That's more like Wahhabbi/Salafi thinking, we Shia are more metaphorical and esoteric in our interpretation ^

 

On 8/8/2018 at 10:04 PM, Christianity said:

Huh, so a simple Prophet, being Jesus here, is going to raise the dead on judgment day and render their judgment to either everlasting life or everlasting punishment. I don't know, if Shia are giving specifically divine characteristics to Jesus when they believe he is only a simple Prophet then maybe the accusations of idolatry could be flipped. But doesn't your Qur'an contradict your assertion that Jesus will be the judge of all mankind? Qur'an 83:4-6 says the dead will stand before the Lord of the worlds. So Jesus is Lord of the worlds now for Islam?

^ No Muslim ever believes this, that would be a contradiction of the Qur'an like you said, Where did Abu imply this? (Hint: He didn't, you're making up things. )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, MartyS said:

Nevertheless, these next verses make it clear that God will yet accept the sacrifice of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins on behalf of the offspring of Abraham, who are literally Isaac and Ishmael...

16 For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham.
17 Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. - Hebrews 2:16-17

Those verses do not mention Jesus at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/23/2018 at 11:47 AM, Son of Placid said:

 

“I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.” 

Trinitarians have their own opinion on what is written but it doesn't change what's written, neither does it make it true.

The problem is; Islam takes the trinitarian route to prove the Bible is corrupt. Message lost.

 

Not exactly. The Qur'an states that the concept of trinity is false but never refers to the 'Bible' as it is commonly known to Christians today.  That is because the Bible in its present form didn't exist at the time the Qur'an was revealed. 

The Qur'an never uses the word 'Bible' or any equivalent term. The word Injeel is used to refer to the Book given to Jesus, but this is not the 'Bible' (don't want to belabor this point). The  'words of Jesus' are also referred to in the Qur'an but this is also not the same as 'Bible' 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Hi Personally  I don’t see any sacrifice in following verses 

 

We have same versese in Qur'an that says oppressed people will inherit Earth also it mentions in other verse that Prophet Isa (عليه السلام) /Jesus supported by the spirit of Allah 

Hi. In Luke 4:18-19, Jesus was speaking about Himself, quoting the prophecy of the Prophet Isaiah in Isaiah 61:1-2. Jesus proclaimed this before His sacrificial death. He was declaring He was the Messiah who Isaiah had prophesied would come by the Spirit of God.

"The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me, because the LORD has anointed me to bring good news to the poor; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound; to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor." - Isaiah 61:1-2a

4 hours ago, baqar said:

Those verses do not mention Jesus at all.

Yes, you are both correct. The verses in Hebrews 2:16-17 do not mention the sacrifice Jesus (God in human flesh) would Himself become, to die in place of sinful men and destroy Satan; nor do they specifically mention Jesus by name. Let me go back to earlier verses in Hebrews 2:9,14-15...

9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. -Hebrews 2:9

14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,
15 and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery.
16 For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. - Hebrews 2:14-16

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...