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In the Name of God بسم الله

Women are sexually frustrated too

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aaaaaa

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I’ve come across posts about men being sexually frustrated and i thought, albeit still a taboo topic, women experience the same issue. 

Some fathers don’t allow their daughters to marry because they’re too young, the boy is not the same ethnicity, doesn’t have status or money, is too old or too young for her, had relationships in the past, etc. 

Women struggle to lower their gaze, keep their mind off the topic, and struggle to not masturbate or watch porn. They’re open to muta to save themselves but not sure where to find a guy who’s open to that. 

Personally, i believe it’s wajib to disobey your parents as they’re telling their children to do something against Islam. By obeying them, you’re likely to sin and live a god-less life. 

I want to open up this thread for women and men to discuss their perspectives on the issue. 

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Both sexes certainly experience the issue, and it has adverse affects. In my experience, it is contributing to strained relations between males and females, and parents and children. It contributes to Muslims marrying non-Muslims. It contributes to mental disorders (being a monk till you're 30 is not healthy). It contributes to people not following their modesty codes (male and female). It contributes to pickiness in finding a spouse. It contributes to porn addiction, masturbation, and other factors you've mentioned. It even contributes to apostasy, as people get fed up with the politics of Islamic marriages.

For many reasons, marriage is being delayed: education, career, the lack of a strong need for children. But one pervasive attitude is that one needs to pursue dunya before marriage, so they can be "ready" for marriage, while the Quranic worldview tends to say that rizq is a byproduct of marriage and children (and not vice versa).

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I don't know about females getting frustrated, I'm not a female so I wouldn't know. But I'm sure whatever frustration sisters feel, it is nothing compared to the frustration males feel. Let's be real here. That's what the science says.

___

But on the point about marriage, if a father rejects suitable people that want to marry his daughter due to some dubious reasons not accepted by either religion or customs (urf), basically saying she can't get married, then she can go ahead with the marriage without his permission, because he has no wilayah on her in this matter anymore.

And this is according to Sayyed Al-Sistani.

The problem arises in the fact that fathers sometimes reject potential suitors due to reasons which are perhaps accepted by customs, therefore this ruling is hard to pass - and it is hard to know what is and isn't accepted by urf.

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There is a shiekh in Australia who mentors and helps people with masturbation and pornography addiction, he said that women too have issues with addiction. Women tend to read erotic novels with sexual themes, so they are excited. I know it is strange but the Shiekh said that a lot of women confessed that they have this addiction. This may not apply to all women, but it was just something he noticed.

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Agreeing with @aaaaaa it happens with everyone the difference is how some people struggle more others struggle less and at different stages in life same as how some people feel more hungry or thirsty as compared to others and I think it's often not dependent on the gender and a bit unfair to generalize in that way. The thing is that Islam would never oppress something which is built into human nature(a part of which is wanting emotional & physical intimacy) and we are told it is designed as the perfect way of life, everyone can acknowledge that not everyone is in a position to get permanently married this is where it makes sense that the concept of mutah is there for those who intend to be in a relationship with someone(either because they genuinely like them but can't get married or because they want to get to know someone better or just as a way to fulfill their needs). However there's this immense stigma and taboo around it more so in the east, people like to think that their sons & daughters are not humans and if they have any such desires that it's horrible, at the same time if someone of either gender is trying to find a potential spouse through any means(assuming they're being respectable) is usually misinterpreted(exmaple if someone tries to get to know someone), our own fault is we often have prejudice and stereotypes towards others even before we know them so in a way it's our own fault as well. To add further there's the issue of syeds and non-syeds and the spouse being only from a particular background by the parents, there's soo many blockades and false stigmas built by society that often it's not surprising people struggle to not go towards haram. Somehow it's as if being in a haram relationship is better than getting into a halal one.(maybe also because it's soo much easier)

I think all we can do from our end is be more accepting of this so our children don't go through what we're going through as well as be understanding of one another and avoid judging others and having stereotypes/prejudice about people.

Edited by Inconsolable
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5 hours ago, Qa'im said:

the lack of a strong need for children.

That’s 100% definitely not true, people can use two methods to make birthcontrol 100% effective so that’s not an excuse there are people that want to get married but not have kids, Remember having kids is MUSTAHABB the whole point of marraige is to complete half of your deen and to avoid zina. People that avoid marraige is either they don’t want the responsibility of having wife or they had bad experience with marriage. There some small minority that avoid marraige to they can avoid an opsy so they avoid sexual relations by not getting married and keep them selves busy with their hobby’s or job. 

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8 hours ago, Sumerian said:

I don't know about females getting frustrated, I'm not a female so I wouldn't know. But I'm sure whatever frustration sisters feel, it is nothing compared to the frustration males feel. Let's be real here. That's what the science says.

Science? Documentation please.

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2 hours ago, Sumerian said:

This is also my impression, but there are also women with a very high sexual drive, and men that dont seem interested at all. Some of my female friends say they have a high drive when in the fertile period of their cyklus. Seems reasonable to me. If so, maybe women could feel just as frustrated as men in periods.  

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2 hours ago, Anonymous2144 said:

According to Islam only men are allowed to marry non-Muslim women in the strict condition they must be from the people of the book I.e Christians and Jews 

For Muslim women in western countries this discrimination is problematic. If their parents insists on it.

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1 hour ago, Carlzone said:

Some muslim women in the west meet non-Muslims who then convert and they get married islamically. 

If the only possibility was a pro-forma conversion, it would be OK with me if my son had to do so. 

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Facts:

Testosterone is directly correlated to sexual drive.

Men have over 100 times more testosterone in their bodies than females.

Sexual drive is primarily to serve reproduction, a female can get pregnant once every 9 months, a male can make over 90 women pregnant in 9 months.

Men die younger and more often.

End of story.

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28 minutes ago, andres said:

If the only possibility was a pro-forma conversion, it would be OK with me if my son had to do so. 

Well of course it is possible that he could do it pro-forma but I don't believe it would be halal for the girl to marry him if she knows he's not really genuine. He'd have to fool her as well then.

Some muslim girls marry non-Muslims anyway as they aren't very religious. I have seen at least four such cases that I can think of straight away.

We have hadiths that state that before Imam Mahdi a.a.f reappears Muslim women will give their womenfolk to nonbelievers. 

"And you will see Muslim women giving their kinswomen to disbelievers."

https://www.al-islam.org/life-imam-al-mahdi-baqir-shareef-al-qurashi/signs-reappearance-imam-time-0

So this phenomena will probably increase from now on.

Edited by Carlzone
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9 hours ago, Anonymous2144 said:

That’s 100% definitely not true, people can use two methods to make birthcontrol 100% effective so that’s not an excuse there are people that want to get married but not have kids, Remember having kids is MUSTAHABB the whole point of marraige is to complete half of your deen and to avoid zina. People that avoid marraige is either they don’t want the responsibility of having wife or they had bad experience with marriage. There some small minority that avoid marraige to they can avoid an opsy so they avoid sexual relations by not getting married and keep them selves busy with their hobby’s or job. 

Maybe I didn't communicate my point properly. Before modern urbanization and birth control medication, marriage in agricultural societies was almost a must. More children meant more work and therefore more value. Sex resulted in pregnancy far more often, which means casual sex was more rare (especially in small societies where everyone knows / is related to everyone), and a careful man would only have sex with a woman if he could fathom her being the mother of his children, and if he could realistically provide for her and her children. Women had far more children and gave birth far earlier in their lives.

So having children was not only a must for most pre-modern people, but it was just a necessary fact of life. Not anymore. Modern people see having many kids (or kids altogether) as an expensive nuisance or a luxury. Agriculture is not relevant to most people - the biggest industries are service and manufacturing. Were it not for immigration, most Western economies would crash, because immigration makes up for the plummeting birth rate.

Furthermore, you can get most of the "perks" of marriage (sex, companionship, and cohabitation) outside of it. In fact, divorce laws are so devastating that marriage is a liability now.

The end result: marriage rate has gone down by about half in many countries. Not just Western countries btw, but Japan and South Korea has very low marriage and birth rates, and Iran's birth rate is the lowest in the region.

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17 hours ago, aaaaaa said:

I want to open up this thread for women and men to discuss their perspectives on the issue.

Has a single woman posted on this thread as of yet ? :coffee:

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3 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

Has a single woman posted on this thread as of yet ? :coffee:

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum.

Well usually our sisters should practice chastity and modesty.  If they are listening to sexual music, watching porn, reading haram magazines, practicing masturbation then of course they will have sexually frustrated feelings.

But if our sisters stay away from these filthy activities they will have their desires fulfilled during marriage.

Islam emphasizes early marriage.  It's up to the people to follow what is advised.  There are solutions but people want to do according to their own desires.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

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18 hours ago, aaaaaa said:

Personally, i believe it’s wajib to disobey your parents as they’re telling their children to do something against Islam. By obeying them, you’re likely to sin and live a god-less life. 

What do you mean by disobeying parents? 

If parents reject a suitable spouse out of nonislamic reasons then it is halal for a virgin girl to marry him anyway. 

If that is what you mean then I think it's ok. I believe we have a hadith that says if pious people are turned down in marriage then that will cause corruption in the earth. 

But if you mean that a virgin girl does mutah I don't think that it's halal according to most marja3s. She needs to have her father's permission. I don't believe any father would allow his daughter to do mutah for sexual gratification. Most father's don't even allow it before marriage in order to get to know eachother. 

Even if they did or if it was halal I don't think it would be wise for virgin girls to do that. I believe it's better to marry permanently. Most men want their wife to be a virgin and there are even hadiths that advice men to marry virgins.

Edited by Carlzone
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1 hour ago, aaaaaa said:

And what are your proposed solutions at an individual level? 

There is a serious Muslim marriage crisis in the West which can destroy our diaspora. This has been discussed by many speakers, organizations, and blogs. We all know the horror stories. Muslim women are especially affected by this, and most community matrimonial services see more women than men. Generally, women in their 30s are having the most trouble. You're likely to find a wide selection of good potential suitors when you are at your prime, but if you wait too long, you may have to pay the consequences. Not only have many men fallen behind (drugs, crime, incarceration, suicide, lower rates of graduation), but some successful Muslim men marry non-Muslim women, and plenty of Western Muslim men have no problem bringing a woman from "back home" to marry. Women are less inclined to do that, and the more educated, career-oriented, and older they are, the harder it is to "marry up" or across. Do not be deceived by the "illusion of choice".

My opinion will be unpopular, old-fashioned, and maybe not appropriate since I am a male and not a female, but: permanent marriage should be a priority for women who are 20-25. I understand that many people want to complete their schooling and build their careers at this age, but the prophetic commandment to marry early has to be there for a reason. The Prophet (s) not only recommended early marriage, but the Quran guarantees rizq after marriage and after children. This is the opposite of what our communities think and practice.

According to online dating data, the most sought-after age for women is 20-24. The same data suggests that women, however, prefer men who are around their age. This is pretty much what conventional wisdom has said for millennia. So being a woman in this age group is basically the female equivalent of being a "rich, famous, handsome guy"; wasting that time chasing after the dunya and hook-up culture has permanent consequences. After a short few years, the number of suitors will drop, and so will their quality. Again, I'm not saying this is an absolute gospel truth, I'm only talking numbers and probability. Our civilization has been marrying early for generations, and it has gotten us this far. Divorce was far less common, and according to many studies, women were much happier 50 years ago. If you'd like to have healthy kids, pregnancy is generally safest in your 20s. A 25-year-old woman has a 1 in 1,200 chance of having a baby with Down syndrome; by 35, the risk has increased to 1 in 350; by age 40, to 1 in 100.

Someone may ask "what if I marry young, and realize it was a mistake?" That's fine. It's one thing being 25 and divorced, and another thing being 35 and divorced. Marrying late means putting your eggs in one basket. Furthermore, those who marry young are generally less choosy and more malleable to the needs of their partner. It's much harder changing your habits and behaviours in your 30s than it is in your early 20s.

To men who are single: bachelorhood is makrooh, and if a Muslim woman is a bit older than you desire, then look to her religion. If it is good, then take her, because she will be good for you and your children. The Prophet (s) married Lady Khadija, and he told the whole world about her love.

To sisters who are in their 30s and single, it is not too late. It is better late than never, but not every man is the Prophet, and waiting too long is neither advisable from a religious perspective nor a pragmatic one. If your parents are hung up at the guy's race, age, or wallet, then these are not really Islamic justifications, and you can persevere. Most importantly, never keep your suitors a secret. Players thrive on secrecy. A parent, sibling, or close friend should be involved from the very beginning.

We may not get punished for the makrooh in the Hereafter, but we're likely to pay its price in this life.

"If a suitor approaches whose religion and character please you, then let him marry. Otherwise, there will be a lot of immorality and corruption in the world." - Prophet Muhammad (s).

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Just now, aaaaaa said:

Within the context of my post where women are trying their best but their fathers are restricting them, what do you think they should do? 

If you found a suitor that has good character, good religious practice, and could offer a stable life by Allah's permission; and your father is rejecting him based only on his race or other accidental and unimportant factors, then you should insist on that suitor, persevere, and have patience. Bring him to your house so that he's no longer just a concept in your parents' mind, but a real life flesh and blood human being. The wali is actually not allowed to reject a suitor based on unislamic criteria - his criticism should be limited to the man's character, religion, and ability to provide for you and maintain you. If you show that he means a lot to you, and if the suitor is warm and patient throughout the ordeal, I think the father will see reason. You can bring a shaykh/sayyid and trusted members of the community to try to intercede for you and smooth things over, and explain what your dad can and can't do in fiqh.

Still pay attention to your dad's advice, he knows you about as much as you know yourself, and his opinion will be valuable. He's not infallible, but if what he says is consistent with ethics, then he must be listened to.

You should be praying throughout the entire ordeal. If you find that the whole process is one hurdle after another, then maybe it's a sign that this man is not the right one for you.

Either way, if your dad is the main obstacle between you and marriage, then you need to speak to him about that. Tell him that it is time. He may recommend someone, or he may become more open to your own recommendations.

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What you can do depends on where you live. In Sweden forcing a daughter to marry is a punishable crime. Even if you kidnap her to be married in (for example Pakistan), you will be charged. Muslims in Swedish diaspora must follow Swedish rules, as Swedes in Pakistan also must follow the laws in Pakistan. Muslims that dont want to obey national laws should give up the diaspora and return home. If the daughter is 18, parents no longer can force her to follow. At 18 both boys and girls are independenr and have the same full rights.

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On 7/25/2018 at 8:00 AM, andres said:

What you can do depends on where you live. In Sweden forcing a daughter to marry is a punishable crime. Even if you kidnap her to be married in (for example Pakistan), you will be charged. Muslims in Swedish diaspora must follow Swedish rules, as Swedes in Pakistan also must follow the laws in Pakistan. Muslims that dont want to obey national laws should give up the diaspora and return home. If the daughter is 18, parents no longer can force her to follow. At 18 both boys and girls are independenr and have the same full rights.

I'm not sure where you misunderstood. Fathers don't have the right to "marry" their daughters to someone else, they have the right to "reject" their daughter getting married to someone.

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43 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

I'm not sure where you misunderstood. Fathers don't have the right to "marry" their daughters to someone else, they have the right to "reject" their daughter getting married to someone.

Some parents do kidnap their daghters and marry them in the land they come from.  If that is against Islamic law, thats the way it should be. 

However parents in Sweden (as in most civilised countries) cannot reject a person that has turned 18 to marry the person she/he wishes to marry. 

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On 7/25/2018 at 8:00 AM, andres said:

What you can do depends on where you live. In Sweden forcing a daughter to marry is a punishable crime. Even if you kidnap her to be married in (for example Pakistan), you will be charged. Muslims in Swedish diaspora must follow Swedish rules, as Swedes in Pakistan also must follow the laws in Pakistan. Muslims that dont want to obey national laws should give up the diaspora and return home. If the daughter is 18, parents no longer can force her to follow. At 18 both boys and girls are independenr and have the same full rights.

Where did this come from? No one is recommending forced marriage.

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On 7/25/2018 at 12:02 PM, Qa'im said:

Where did this come from? No one is recommending forced marriage.

My fault. It is reality among immigrants in Sweden, but noone on Shia Chat recommends it. Sorry. What is regarded as OK amomg Muslims seems to be that a father can reject his daughter to marry a boy she would like to marry. This is not possible in Sweden, and Muslims here ought to accept this. This is not always so

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On 7/25/2018 at 12:14 PM, andres said:

My fault. It is reality among immigrants in Sweden, but noone on Shia Chat recommends it. Sorry. What is regarded as OK amomg Muslims seems to be that a father can reject his daughter to marry a boy she would like to marry. This is not possible in Sweden, and Muslims here ought to accept this. This is not always so

What do you mean ought to accept this? Swedish law has no authority over sharia.

If the Marja that the girl follows requires that she has her father's permission to marry a boy, then that will not change just because she lives in Sweden. 

The father only has the right to reject a suitor on Islamic grounds, nothing else. If he goes against that then she can go ahead and marry the suitor anyway.

If she on the other hand chooses not to obey her religion then that is entirely up to her. Nobody will force her to obey. She is a free person and will face the consequences in the afterlife. 

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1 hour ago, Carlzone said:

What do you mean ought to accept this? Swedish law has no authority over sharia.

If the Marja that the girl follows requires that she has her father's permission to marry a boy, then that will not change just because she lives in Sweden. 

The father only has the right to reject a suitor on Islamic grounds, nothing else. If he goes against that then she can go ahead and marry the suitor anyway.

If she on the other hand chooses not to obey her religion then that is entirely up to her. Nobody will force her to obey. She is a free person and will face the consequences in the afterlife. 

 Swedish law has authority over Sharia in Sweden. Qa'im wrote: "There is a serious Muslim marriage crisis in the West which can destroi our diaspora". If he is talking about not being able to live by Sharia law, this diaspira destruction is unavoidable.

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