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Goswami

Shia Islam stance on slavery?

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:salam:

One of my christian friend has been researching on shia Islam. At the moment , he is a bit disappointed by the stance of shia Islam on slavery. He says how having sex with a married woman captured in a war is not injustice ? How do you justify this to someone who doesn't believe Mohammad (saw) was a prophet?

Here is a quotation from Sheikh al-Tusi in his book of jurisprudence *al-Nihayah*. 

" يستباح وطؤ الاماء بثلاثة أشياء:
أحدها العقد عليهن بإذن أهلهن، وقد قدمنا ذكر ذلك.
والثاني بتحليل مالكهن الرجل من وطيهن وإباحته له، وإن لم يكن هناك عقد.
والثالث بأن يملكهن فيستبيح وطأهن بملك الايمان له."

Translation:

" It is permissible to have intercourse with slave girls in one of three conditions:

1_The first one is to do a Nikah contract with them by the permission of her owner, and we have already mentioned that.

2_The second one is by the permission of their owner to have intercourse with them, even without a contract.

3_The third one is by possessing them as his own slave girls so that it can be lawful for him to have intercourse with them by making them his Mulk Yameen (Whom his right hand possess)."

 

from Zurara,
(It has been narrated) from one of the two (5th or 6th Imamasws), said, ‘I asked himasws about the owned slaves, ‘How many that he marry?’ Heasws said: ‘Two free ones, or four slave girls’. And heasws said: ‘There is no problem if there was wealth in his
hands, and he was permitted for it regarding the business, if he keeps concubines whatever he so desires to from the slave girls, and go to them’

- Al Kafi – V 5 – The Book of Marriage Ch 116 H 3



So how do we respond to his objections ? @Qa'im

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5 hours ago, Goswami said:

One of my christian friend has been researching on shia Islam. At the moment , he is a bit disappointed by the stance of shia Islam on slavery.

In Christianity there was concubines aswell he should read it from the bible to Understand it the move on to the Quran and hadiths. 

Edited by Hameedeh
Excessively long quote was shortened in length.

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  : علي عن أخيه عليه‌السلام قال : سألته عن رجل قال لامته وأراد أن يعتقها ويتزوجها : أعتقتك وجعلت صداقك عتقك قال : عتقت وهي بالخيار إن شاءت تزوجته وإن شاءت فلا ، وإن تزوجته فليعطها شيئا ، وإن قال : تزوجتك وجعلت مهرك عتقك كان النكاح (*) شيئا واجبا إلى أن يعطيها شيئا

A man was going to free his slave(as her mehr) and then marry her. Imam-a- said:

Free her and then she has the choice to marry him or not. And if she marries him, he must give her something (i.e, her mehr).

"Those whom your right hands possess"may be a wrong translation. The word yameen has other meanings too: vow,promise,...

So maybe it means those whom you possessed by vows. Maybe something like temporary marriage.

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2 hours ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

later Imams never even had permanent wives and in fact only had slaves - such as Imam al-Kadhim (a), and most likely Imam al-Hadi (a) and al-'Askari (a) as well.

It was because of their Taqiya not ,because at that era from Imam Al-Kadhim if he had  permanent wives ,it would place their wive under great danger but slaves less suffer from danger as Abbasid caliph at time of Imam Al-Asqary captured one of female slaves of him under high supervision because he think that ,she is pregnant from him the Imam Mahdi(aj) but he can’t out real mother of Imam (aj) that also entered to house of 11th Imam (as) as a slave to his house.

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6 hours ago, Goswami said:

He says how having sex with a married woman captured in a war is not injustice ? 

The thing your friend is saying, is by his or her own definition of justice.

by gods definition slavery is justice.

show your friend word of god in Torah.

we can’t refer to injil, because they don’t have it.

( your friend is Christian , and these concepts is not acceptable in that corrupted New Testament, they think it’s exactly words of jesus )

 

Deuteronomy 21
10 When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 
11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 
12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 
13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. 
14 If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.

Edited by Arminmo

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6 hours ago, Goswami said:

One of my christian friend has been researching on shia Islam.

Another propaganda they have against Islam is about killing non believers.

In abrahamic religions obeying gods command is not sin,

disobeying gods command is sin.

God commanded david, Solomon, prophet Muhammad,uzzakiah,.. to do war , kill non believers, and capture slaves among them.

all they did was command of god.

no sin.

Luke 19:27

“But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.”

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6 hours ago, Goswami said:

One of my christian friend has been researching on shia Islam.

This information might be helpful for you.

God has ordered us to act fair with people of the scripture, but those extremists don’t read the whole Quran:

“And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." Quran29:46

Edited by Arminmo

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7 hours ago, Goswami said:

One of my christian friend has been researching 

Put your Christian friend in this situation:

Aren’t you Christians saying : jesus said I and god are one ?! 

Lets have this in our hand and go to Old Testament, and see what the peaceful jesus did:

2 Chronicles 15:12-13 English Standard Version (ESV)

12 And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord (jesus), the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, 13 but that whoever would not seek the Lord(jesus), the God of Israel, should be put to DEATH, whether young or old, man or woman.

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7 hours ago, Goswami said:

someone who doesn't believe Mohammad (saw) was a prophet?

For this matter you should show 2 things :

1-miracles in Quran.

How could an uneducated person in 1400 years ago was able to provide all these scientific miracles by himself ??! ( if the information was not given to him from the main source of knowledge that is god !)

http://www.speed-light.info/miracles_of_quran/

2- prophecies of coming of prophet Muhammad in their book.

 if they said in this bible it’s not there, tell them provide your authentic bible (written by a known writer) it’s there .

gospel of Luke ,mark,... written by “unknown” writers,85 years after jesus, by people that NEVER MET him.

torah was re-written by rabbis 1000 years after Moses:

wikipedia book of Leviticus:”book developed much later !! “

http://www.answering-christianity.com/predict.htm

https://www.alislam.org/library/articles/biblical-prophecies-about-muhammad/

Edited by Arminmo

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On 7/21/2018 at 10:06 AM, Goswami said:

:salam:

One of my christian friend has been researching on shia Islam. At the moment , he is a bit disappointed by the stance of shia Islam on slavery. He says how having sex with a married woman captured in a war is not injustice ? How do you justify this to someone who doesn't believe Mohammad (saw) was a prophet?

My dear friend,

Well, please permit me to give you my own views on the subject.

It is COMPLETELY incorrect to suggest that Islam encourages slavery.

On the contrary, it tries very hard to phase out slavery.

For example, the Quran asks Muslims why they don't share their wealth with their slaves, so that they are EQUAL to them?  (Q. 16:71)

Well, if you give so much to your slave that he is your EQUAL, then clearly he is NO LONGER your slave.

He is your EQUAL.

Right?

That is Quran's way of getting rid of slavery.

You may ask why the Quran didn't make a grand announcement like Abraham Lincoln abolishing slavery.

Well, the slaves in Lincoln's jurisdiction had no guarantee that they will have food and a roof to sleep under once they left the master, whereas the Quran assures the slave of his provisions.

He becomes his master's equal and continues to live with him until he can find a job or  source of living.  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for slave girls, they are not only slaves but they also have the rights that all women do.

And therefore according to Q. 4:19, Muslims are not allowed to do anything to a slave girl against her will.

And Q. 24:33 says that if a slave (man or woman) wants to leave you, you must set them free and let them go..

In effect, it means that you cannot have anyone, man or woman, as your slave if they don't want to be your slave. 

So there you are !

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For more on the subject, you might like to read "A Closer Look at Islam."

This book has been adjudged a finalist by the Book Excellence Awards 2018.

http://www.xlibris.com/Bookstore/BookDetail.aspx?BookId=SKU-001051340

I am sure your Christian friend will find a lot of interesting information in this book. 

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On 7/21/2018 at 2:03 PM, Qa'im said:

most Abbasid caliphs were sons of slave women, while it took America 150 years to elect a black man, who wasn't even a descendant of slaves himself. Furthermore, today in Muslim cultures, there is almost no consciousness of whose ancestors were or weren't slaves (unlike America today), while the carcass of Social Darwinism still reeks to this day.

yet it took western worlds help to abolish slavery in muslim countries 

muslim slavery was not benign at all if that is what you were implying ,it was everybit as brutal as what british or the belgians did 

capturing white men from europe and working them to death in the fields of their black and brown feudal lords or toiling as galley slaves does not exactly sound like an enlightened model of slavery.The practice of castrating young boys turning them into eunuchs was widespread in muslim countries until abolished recently, was this not just as barbaric as what europeans did ? in my opinion was even more

in america the person who is even 10% black  still milks his/her "slave heritage"  and use it as a crutch to this day,trust me  I deal with it everyday.

 

Edited by Panzerwaffe

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1 hour ago, Panzerwaffe said:

yet it took western worlds help to abolish slavery in muslim countries 

muslim slavery was not benign at all if that is what you were implying ,it was everybit as brutal as what british or the belgians did 

capturing white men from europe and working them to death in the fields of their black and brown feudal lords or toiling as galley slaves does not exactly sound like an enlightened model of slavery.The practice of castrating young boys turning them into eunuchs was widespread in muslim countries until abolished recently, was this not just as barbaric as what europeans did ? in my opinion was even more

in america the person who is even 10% black  still milks his/her "slave heritage"  and use it as a crutch to this day,trust me  I deal with it everyday.

Oh please are you for real? 

I'm not a fan of any form of slavery. But "milking their slave heritage?" They have every right to feel angry till this day and even in the future as well. 

Read up on intersectionality before you make such reality defying statements.

White people/caucasians (or their rulers to be more correct) are the most oppressive people on the history of the earth. They have enslaved and sucked the life out of practically the whole world and use rhetorics and propaganda to brainwash the world into believing that it is they who are the poor victims, while in reality they are the most brutal oppressors the world has ever faced. 

In a way they remind me of the Jews in Israel. 

Unfortunately it is true what they say....If you're not careful the media will have you hating the victim and feeling sorry for the perpetrator. Our biggest problem in this world is that people are sleeping and have given away their power by believing the brainwashing that the media feeds them. 

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31 minutes ago, Carlzone said:

White people/caucasians (or their rulers to be more correct) are the most oppressive people on the history of the earth

generalization, maybe the ruling classes of british then yes i agree but why put the polish and german immigrants to america in the same group 

or maybe your simplistic feeble little mind cannot discern the difference between them ?

Edited by Panzerwaffe

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4 minutes ago, Panzerwaffe said:

please save your rhetoric 

I"m not going to waste my time , jews of israel are far better than our corrupt despotic ruling classes who oppress their own people

The Iraqi government is a disgrace and indeed incredibly corrupt. But that doesn't make Israel any better. And that doesn't change what the Caucasians have done to the world. 

And for your knowledge the white rulers actively work to sow discord in the middle East and within countries there so that we become weaker and they are able to keep controlling and enslaving us. 

As long as people don't wake up and see what is going on and start taking measures to stop the tyrants the situation will never change. 

In the end we are waiting for Imam Mehdis a.a.f. rescue, may Allah SWT hasten his reappearance InshaAllah. 

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3 minutes ago, Panzerwaffe said:

generalization, maybe the ruling classes of british then yes i agree but why put the polish and german immigrants to america in the same group 

or maybe your simplistic feeble little mind cannot discern the difference between them ?

I thought that you would grasp the point and understand which whites I meant. Apparently not.

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1 hour ago, Carlzone said:

The Iraqi government is a disgrace and indeed incredibly corrupt. But that doesn't make Israel any better. And that doesn't change what the Caucasians have done to the world. 

And for your knowledge the white rulers actively work to sow discord in the middle East and within countries there so that we become weaker and they are able to keep controlling and enslaving us. 

As long as people don't wake up and see what is going on and start taking measures to stop the tyrants the situation will never change. 

In the end we are waiting for Imam Mehdis a.a.f. rescue, may Allah SWT hasten his reappearance InshaAllah. 

awe poor helpless muslims always exploited by the evil whites 

just like one abdullah b saba exploited and controlled the thousands of poor helpless sahaba 

same old conspiracy theories 

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1 hour ago, Panzerwaffe said:

awe poor helpless muslims always exploited by the evil whites 

just like one abdullah b saba exploited and controlled the thousands of poor helpless sahaba 

same old conspiracy theories 

It is reality but if you feel safer in the world by closing your eyes and believing that the world is a fluffy pink place then by all means do that. It doesn't matter to me. You can support any tyrant you want. You'll pay the price in the akhira. That's the beauty of islam. You can laugh and oppress all you want here, but be certain that there will come a day when you'll wish that you could come back here and take the right stance. But then it'll be too late. Do what you want. It's your soul.

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1 minute ago, Panzerwaffe said:

amen !! i hope you would follow your own advice bro

InshaAllah. I hope so too. There's nothing better than the Quran and Ahlul Bayt. It's the right path but not an easy path. May Allah SWT help us all to follow the right path and forgive us our sins InshaAllah. 

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2 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

abdullah b saba exploited and controlled the thousands of poor helpless sahaba 

 same old conspiracy theories 

His story mixed with many myths to defame shia Muslims as his followers by wahhabist sources so we can’t really consider stories about him as a fact

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_ibn_Saba'

https://www.al-islam.org/abdullah-ibn-saba-and-other-myths-sayyid-murtadha-al-askari/tale-abdullah-bin-saba

 

 

WHEN EUROPEANS WERE SLAVES: RESEARCH SUGGESTS WHITE SLAVERY WAS MUCH MORE COMMON THAN PREVIOUSLY BELIEVED

COLUMBUS, Ohio – A new study suggests that a million or more European Christians were enslaved by Muslims in North Africa between 1530 and 1780 – a far greater number than had ever been estimated before.

In a new book, Robert Davis, professor of history at Ohio State University, developed a unique methodology to calculate the number of white Christians who were enslaved along Africa’s Barbary Coast, arriving at much higher slave population estimates than any previous studies had found.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_on_the_Barbary_Coast

https://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/when-europeans-were-slaves-of-north-africa/comment-page-1/

i think that we must separate Arabic slavery from Islamic slavery ,the Abbasid & Ummayd slavery was Arabic slavery only Ahlulbayt (as) we’re applying rules about slavery in Islam

The face of African slavery in Qajar Iran – in pictures

Anthropologist Pedram Khosronejad has embarked on a new and controversial topic in Iranian studies, developing a narrative on African slavery in Persia through archival photography, interviews and scattered text. Here he curates from his burgeoning collection

https://www.theguardian.com/world/iran-blog/2016/jan/14/african-slavery-in-qajar-iran-in-photos

 

We are Iranians': Rediscovering the history of African slavery in Iran

#InsideIran

Iranian-Canadian scholar Behnaz Mirzai has spent 20 years researching the African diaspora in Iran, a little-known slice of Iranian history

IMG_2281.JPG
 
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Iranians

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Iran

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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On 7/24/2018 at 12:27 AM, baqar said:

It is COMPLETELY incorrect to suggest that Islam encourages slavery.

alhamdulillah. Tis always good to hear this.

this guy called me his slave & it was embarrassing not because of what he called me but because he was claiming things he knew nothing about or things which he tried to undermine initially. it was not of him to be like that & I later learned that it was a thing speaking through him for he took satan to be the master of his affairs. 

I don't want to see him ever again... ia

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On 7/21/2018 at 8:04 PM, Soldiers and Saffron said:

How much does Islam emphasize on the freeing of slaves? How many times does it encourage one to free slaves?

alhamdulillah, it is good to be assured that Islam is against slavery.

The other day this guy called me his slave it was embarrassing, not because of what he labelled me, but he was making claims on things he knows nothing about & also about things which he initially was against.

I nearly left Islam, had it not been for Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) & the 7th Imam(عليه السلام) I was never going to be able to dig deep.

I later learned that he is captured, they were speaking through him for he took satan to be the master of his affairs.

hoping that he gets this & he should know that he is not Islam nor an Imam(عليه السلام) or ulil amr.

Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is sufficient as a protector & a guide &...

55: 1-7 Qur'an

not looking forward to seeing him, ever. ia.

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