Detention of undocumented migrant children

[Laayla]

whatever is the agenda of MSN media I won't be hoping on the bandwagon, that's for sure.  

Where is the human face of the starving Yemenis?  Where is the human face of the open prisoners of Gazans?

MSN media will not choose for me who I should sympathize with or not.  

From the link brother @hasanhh provided on CBS News

 

"They're using it to symbolize a policy and that was not the case in this picture," Ruiz said. "It took less than two minutes. As soon as the search was finished, she immediately picked the girl up, and the girl immediately stopped crying."  

Moore says Ruiz and other agents acted professionally that night. But he is happy with the cover and the response to the image.

"Oftentimes, immigration is talked about in terms of statistics, and when you put a human face and humanize an issue, you make people feel. And when you make people feel, they have compassion. And if I've done just a little bit of that, then that's OK," Moore said.

[hasanhh]

1 hour ago, Laayla said:

MSN media will not choose for me who I should sympathize with or not.

l was listening today to that on-the-radio-'nut' Sean Hannity -- alternating with whiney NPR .

He used a phrase l never heard before: "l will not be guilted into anything."  Meaning someone trying to cast a sense of guilt into you so you change or act.

"Guilted" is an anthimeria, here verbing a noun.

He was arguing against "liberal tactics".

[Hameedeh]

1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

Have you seen this yet?

"Fake News"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/border-patrol-agent-involved-dramatic-photo-girl-crying-at-border-speaks-out/ 

The little girl has -and is- housed with her mother.

When a story is in the news, especially one that mentions how children are harmed psychologically by separating them from family, that photo was a two year old girl crying. It was better than a stock photo of a crying child. More real, not fake. I'm glad that she was not separated from her mother after Mum was patted down by a Border Patrol Agent, but thousands of children have been separated by BPA but we don't have photos of them crying. 

[Mohamed1993]

20 hours ago, hasanhh said:

Look at the ICE raids in Ohio this week. Those employers face real legal problems and expensive fines. How is that "good" for the economy?

They face legal action because of government, which republicans claim to hate now all of a sudden they want more government when it comes to deportations and detentions of "illegal" migrants. Isn't it the case that migrants will likely work harder and they don't have social safety net programs that citizens will rely on, they will not demand as much in terms of working conditions either and they would likely be more productive, since they want to stay in the US at all costs and not move back to where they are fleeing from, so they'll do everything to keep their job. This is a classical Milton Friedman argument. 

[hasanhh]

John Moore, Getty lmages photo of crying girl.

One voice on the radio mis-spoke and said this picture was "6 years old". Not possible. The mother was previously deported in 2013.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/06/22/crying-immigrant-girl-truth-behind-photo/ 

So, return the little girl to her father in Honduras and lock up the repeat-offending mother.

[Wahdat]

18 hours ago, hasanhh said:

Have you seen this yet?

"Fake News"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/border-patrol-agent-involved-dramatic-photo-girl-crying-at-border-speaks-out/ 

The little girl has -and is- housed with her mother.

This little girl is not put in jail...acc to the govt sources close to 2500 kids are...so the news of US putting kids in cages is very REAL. no?

[Wahdat]

17 hours ago, hasanhh said:

l was listening today to that on-the-radio-'nut' Sean Hannity -- alternating with whiney NPR .

He used a phrase l never heard before: "l will not be guilted into anything."  Meaning someone trying to cast a sense of guilt into you so you change or act.

"Guilted" is an anthimeria, here verbing a noun.

He was arguing against "liberal tactics".

Folks wont be guilted into diverging from basic tenets of humanity today for they are too drunk with their civil war, just like the Nazis were not guilted into things when they did similar things, but once this intoxication wears off there will be nothing but shame & guilt for acting like the Hitler Youth.

[hasanhh]

1 hour ago, Wahdat said:

This little girl is not put in jail...acc to the govt sources close to 2500 kids are...so the news of US putting kids in cages is very REAL. no?

A prison cell is closer to a "cage" than these more opened chain-linked fence areas.

[hasanhh]

For the few people on SC who also "have been played":

http://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/393675-americans-have-been-played-again-by-open-border-advocates

These policies assist child smuggling.

[notme]

3 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

For the few people on SC who also "have been played":

http://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/393675-americans-have-been-played-again-by-open-border-advocates

These policies assist child smuggling.

What does open border advocacy have to do with the present discussion?

[hasanhh]

1 minute ago, notme said:

What does open border advocacy have to do with the present discussion?

There are no detentions at the border?

[notme]

Just now, hasanhh said:

There are no detentions at the border?

One does not necessarily object to detention just because he or she objects to mistreatment of detainees. The post about open borders is off topic. 

[Reza]

45 minutes ago, notme said:

One does not necessarily object to detention just because he or she objects to mistreatment of detainees. The post about open borders is off topic. 

It’s to muddy the waters. 

[Wahdat]

1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

A prison cell is closer to a "cage" than these more opened chain-linked fence areas.

Like I said, to a clear view, these baby jails are INDEFENSIBLE.

Those that justify such horror on the illegal nature of the asylum process, should also create cages for American politicians and businessmen who also illegally bring down entire states and govts prompting these poor individuals to leave their entire lives and come seek mercy from the likes of Trump.

To draw a pic for you

Illegal American  & European Foreign Policy ====> Illegal Immigration into America & EU.

[Reza]

1 hour ago, Reza said:

It’s to muddy the waters. 

@hasanhh Since you’re putting  “Respectfully Disagree” on most posts (almost reflexively), lets see your reaction to this one.

Ranking list of priorities:

Hatred of liberal media >>>>> Myself >> Children >> Poor people

[hasanhh]

4 hours ago, notme said:

What does open border advocacy have to do with the present discussion?

-and-

3 hours ago, notme said:

One does not necessarily object to detention just because he or she objects to mistreatment of detainees. The post about open borders is off topic. 

Open Borders is the root of this 'crisis' and the basis of this discussion. So it is not "off-topic".  BTW: which illegal entries are being subjected to "mistreatment" ? Besides, the article you condemn is about how the American people are being to 'wise-up' about being manipulated by the media. Something l have writ similarly above.

On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 6:55 PM, notme said:

Media has an answer to my previous question, but the answer is a non-answer.

Trump Retreats on Separating Families, but Thousands Will Remain Apart https://nyti.ms/2I7wWAA

l re-read this thread and only from the first page l read:

Hameedeh doesn't like "tent city to house"   (They are better than Army pup-tents.)

#3 l disagreed with Hameedeh

#4 Notme said the basis for judgment/viewing is "empathy".

#5 Notme wrote the problem is separation, which "is terrorism".

#7 Notme  wrote, with understanding comes empathy.

#9 Notme wrote about pictures torturing parents and "caging children".

No, @notme l did not single you out here, this is only this thread's first page; yet others agree with what you wrote and a few assert l am a racist.

The article l shared, re-posted here:

4 hours ago, hasanhh said:

For the few people on SC who also "have been played":

http://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/393675-americans-have-been-played-again-by-open-border-advocates

These policies assist child smuggling.

... has come to remind me of the 1997(?) motion picture, Wag the Dog.  lf you didn't see the film, a crisis is manufactured to protect the President from scandal. His movie moghul friends provide a staged, emotion-oriented film stripe. Stock footage of a war with shelling in the back drop. On stage is a young actress stumbling away from the alleged fighting. When the moghuls are reviewing the film before release to the news media, they see a need to add something. So special effects is called-in to add a puppy into the actress' arms.

With that in mind, l can say, l see the anti-Trump media "Wagging the Dog" down on 0ur Border.

Probably everyone here has been around small children. They cry --or laugh. They cannot do much else. They will even throw tantrums. Ever not see a toddler lie on a floor kicking and screaming? ln a restaurant or store? Or temper-tantrums when putting them in their own, familiar car seat?

l'II close with two propositions:

Empathy is not a basis for policy.

Repeal the Asylum law (and replace it with asylum grant by Congressional Resolution after recommendation by the Department of State or the departments and agencies of defense and so related for collaboration activities and signature of either the President or Vice-President).

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by hasanhh
punctuation

[hasanhh]

1 hour ago, Reza said:

Hatred of liberal media >>>>> Myself >> Children >> Poor people

lf l understand this, l'II rewrite it as:

 Disgust with liberal-misrepresenting-to-lying- media >>>>> l, Myself do not have Children now >>> l am a Poor People

This answer your question?

[hasanhh]

23 hours ago, Hameedeh said:

...how children are harmed psychologically by separating them from family...

Salam Uhty,

When re-reading this l was reminded by the "lost children" who were found years and even decades later. These "lost" had as a rule no memory of their parents, or other parent. So l think this psychological harm theme is far from accurate.

[Reza]

28 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

lf l understand this, l'II rewrite it as:

 Disgust with liberal-misrepresenting-to-lying- media >>>>> l, Myself do not have Children now >>> l am a Poor People

This answer your question?

So fixation with media is still at top (as if hatred or disgust is tangibly different) followed by yourself.

You merged yourself with the children and poor people categories, hence they ceased to become independent categories. So you simplified it down to just the media and yourself. 

The equation is clear. 

[hasanhh]

3 minutes ago, Reza said:

So fixation with media is still at top (as if hatred or disgust is tangibly different) followed by yourself.

You merged yourself with the children and poor people categories, hence they ceased to become independent categories. So you simplified it down to just the media and yourself. 

The equation is clear. 

Are these two posts some  kind of psychological quiz?

And how does a media fixation come into this?  Media mis-representations is a theme of this thread.

[Reza]

48 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Are these two posts some  kind of psychological quiz?

And how does a media fixation come into this?  Media mis-representations is a theme of this thread.

Psychology is easy to unravel.

The original post doesn’t mention anything about the media. That was dragged in later, by those fixated about it.

[notme]

I'm ok with having "too much" empathy. I've had too little in the distant past and it was depressing, made life not worth living. We are all in this world together so that we can make things better for each other. I'd rather err on the side of too much compassion than too little. 

I never said the parents who bring their children across the border illegally are not guilty. I just think the punishment should fit the crime. 

@hasanhh

[hasanhh]

2 hours ago, Reza said:

The original post doesn’t mention anything about the media.

True. But the second post did. You couldn't hear about a "tent city" except by media.

[Mohamed1993]

Tweet from Ralph Nader. Awesome message, yet look at some of the tweets from the democratic party shills, they're as clueless as it gets.  

[Laayla]

31 minutes ago, Mohamed1993 said:

Tweet from Ralph Nader. Awesome message, yet look at some of the tweets from the democratic party shills, they're as clueless as it gets.  

Exactly.  Now this is a man of principles and true sincerity.  We can't pick and choose who gets our compassion and who doesn't. 

I hope Allah rewards him both in dunya and akheera.  God is Most Merciful.

Sub7an'Allah his ancestors are Lebanese

M3 Salamah, Fe Amin Allah 

[Hameedeh]

10 hours ago, hasanhh said:

When re-reading this l was reminded by the "lost children" who were found years and even decades later. These "lost" had as a rule no memory of their parents, or other parent. So l think this psychological harm theme is far from accurate.

Salam. What a tragedy that ^ those children could not remember their parent(s) but even more so, that they grew up without their care and love.

According to the International Detention Coalition, an organization that helps refugees, asylum-seekers and migrants affected by immigration detention, in their 2012 report CAPTURED CHILDHOOD (updated in 2016), there is trauma to children who are detained. See an excerpt of the report below, especially the sentence that I put in bold font:

Quote

A variety of factors contributes to or exacerbates the psychosocial and developmental problems experienced by children in immigration detention. These factors include previous trauma experienced in their home country or during migration, the length of time detained, disruption of the family unit and parental roles, poor and unsafe conditions of detention and a lack of basic needs including food. 

Particularly vulnerable are young people with extended experiences of trauma, unaccompanied minors or those separated from their families, and those who are asylum seekers. For some children, detention maintains or aggravates existing trauma and other psychological conditions. For others, the detention experience is the worst thing that has happened to them. 94 For the majority of children the detention experience includes a loss of control, enforced separation from the outside world, detachment from community, culture, religion, and the inability to experience life as predictable, meaningful and safe. The experience of detention may mimic the experience of human rights abuses, persecution and terror. Detention is highly traumatising for children who are less able to understand explanations as to the reason they have been detained. 

There is a clear link between the length of time that children are detained and the psychosocial and developmental issues they confront. The longer children are detained, the more likely they are to be exposed to traumatic events. Further, children and young people who are detained for extended periods of time are more likely than others to experience feelings of isolation, detachment and loss of confidence.

See Chapter 5 (pages 48-57): IMPACTS OF DETENTION ON CHILDREN (PDF only)

https://idcoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Captured-Childhood.pdf

[notme]

Is Herr Drumf advocating for the immediate deportation of two of his wives without due process? Where would be be if his policy had been applied to his grandfather? 

[forte]

10 hours ago, notme said:

Is Herr Drumf advocating for the immediate deportation of two of his wives without due process? Where would be be if his policy had been applied to his grandfather? 

I think he is referring to illegal immigrants (?)  

Don't know about his first wife, but the third one got in on the Einstein visa (?!?).  Don't think they were targeting models for this visa, but she was granted one, somehow.   Hmm...   https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43256318 

[notme]

2 hours ago, forte said:

I think he is referring to illegal immigrants (?)  

Don't know about his first wife, but the third one got in on the Einstein visa (?!?).  Don't think they were targeting models for this visa, but she was granted one, somehow.   Hmm...   https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43256318 

As I understand it, Mrs. Trump arrived in the United States on a visitor visa whole seeking modeling work. She later was granted residency and the right to work because of her "extreme talent in her field of work". 

I don't know his ex-wife's immigration history. 

He said all people attempting to enter the US should be turned away. He didn't say all border jumpers should be caught and sent home. There's a huge difference. In fact, most of the "illegal immigrants" are only caught when they seek asylum, which is legal. Border jumping is a misdemeanor. It's comparable to running a stop sign or stealing a grape at the produce market. 

[hasanhh]

l found some people who will trade places with these poor, 'traumatized' illegal entries.

http://www.euronews.com/2018/04/17/women-and-children-affiliated-with-isil-are-sexually-exploited-denied-aid-at-iraq-camps

[notme]

11 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

l found some people who will trade places with these poor, 'traumatized' illegal entries.

http://www.euronews.com/2018/04/17/women-and-children-affiliated-with-isil-are-sexually-exploited-denied-aid-at-iraq-camps

That is worse. Much worse. But I think it warrants its own discussion, not to be hidden among posts discussing Western hemisphere refugees.

[Wahdat]

These little low class KKK nutcases could have their field day chanting 'Blood & Soil' in Charlottesville or snatch babies from parents at the border, but the Jewish organizations will, slowly but surely, make David Dukes out of them all in no time....Thank God for the American Jews, otherwise God knows what these uneducated impotent lot would do on their stupid way of 'making America great again'.

The mass always criticizes those that are in power and the Jews hold the power n today's world....instead the mass should also learn to look at the alternative...so that we wont get KKK in US or ISIS in ME.

[Haji 2003]

 

 

[hasanhh]

9 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

 

 

Determine their country of origin, fly them home and then let their home country figure out what to do. They do have uncles, aunts, grandparents and all.

Edited July 4, 2018 by hasanhh

[Ashvazdanghe]

http://en.abna24.com/news/america/trump-administration-ask-migrant-parents-will-you-leave-with-or-without-children_900347.html

Trump administration ask migrant parents: will you leave with or without children?

 

July 4, 2018 - 9:02 AM News Code : 900347 Source : The GuardianLink: 

 

US immigration officials have been instructed to ask parents separated from their children under Donald Trump’s “zero-tolerance” immigration policy to choose whether to return to their countries with – or without – their offspring.