Detention of undocumented migrant children

[ShiaMan14]

1 hour ago, forte said:

Illegals can get pro bono legal assistance and can go to free medical clinics staffed by volunteers and work underground jobs at slave wages... but I would not call that handouts.

Correct, these are not handouts.

Working underground jobs gives them a wage and keeps our costs down.

1 hour ago, forte said:

You mean develop penal colonies like they did in Britain (Australia) and France (Devil's Island)? Hmm...  First Nations people do something similar - they send the offender away to contemplate for a year on their own in some desolate area with minimal tools and resources.  Probably works.

Based on the amount of press it is getting (and also must be a deflection from something else that is happening quietly behind the scenes) I totally agree.

Yup, exactly like England » Australia.

The movie "Escape from New York" had this concept (slave colony). Others as well.

[hasanhh]

You two are deliberately contriving statements l did not make. Re-read at the top where l wrote things "are messed up all the way around".

48 minutes ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Correct, these are not handouts.

Working underground jobs gives them a wage and keeps our costs down. Which is criminal evasion of taxes.

Yup, exactly like England » Australia.

The movie "Escape from New York" had this concept (slave colony). Others as well.  Never heard of it. Besides, Hollywood is not a basis for information.

 

1 hour ago, forte said:

Illegals can get pro bono legal assistance and can go to free medical clinics staffed by volunteers and work underground jobs at slave wages... but I would not call that handouts. They also get food stamps, cash assistance and their kids get free-rides in our school systems. Reportedly (2017) this has about bankrupted Nashville.

You mean develop penal colonies like they did in Britain (Australia) and France (Devil's Island)? Hmm...  First Nations people do something similar - they send the offender away to contemplate for a year on their own in some desolate area with minimal tools and resources.  Probably works.  A hysterical supposition.

Based on the amount of press it is getting (and also must be a deflection from something else that is happening quietly behind the scenes) I totally agree. An always slanted press which is now very anti-Trump.

 

1 hour ago, ShiaMan14 said:

What handouts do illegals get?   Food stamps, cash assistance, housing assistance, schooling, ...

The percentage of illegals criminals is probably on our with the percentage of legal criminals.  AGREED

If any thing, we should deport illegal criminals, revoke citizenship of legal criminals and give it to illegal law-abiding immigrants. Multiple poems solved. Repeal the Asylum laws.

The whole immigration debate is just a fear - mongering vote - getting tactic.  Do NOT agree.

Additionally, one thing that is partially true is that illegal entries pay sales tax. But that part which comes from assistance is only recirculating public money.

[Hameedeh]

Another former First Lady spoke out against separating children from the parent(s). Rosalynn Cater:

[Laayla]

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum 

Steal natural resources under the false pretext of WMDs, terrorism, regime change.  How many times have you been lied to @Sumerian

I think you are one of those Iraqis who are happy US got involved to destroy your country, whatever it took to get rid of Saddam, right?  Correct me if I'm wrong.

In turn, America has immigrated thousands of Iraqis to US.  If only you had a clue of how the Iraqi immigrants are doing in America.  Ask @Abu Hadi the numerous problems immigrants face.  

My cousin has been married over half a year now and is still waiting for a visa to bring his wife with him to the states.  Two years ago, this wasn't an issue, the spouse would be in the states within 3-4 months.  

Trump is a shrewd politician he absolutely knows what he is doing and he is fulfilling campaign promises.  When elections start again, he will remind his base and new voters what he has done during his presidency.  He definitely knows how to play the game.  He is an expert at it, he knows about the power of media, that's why he downplayed them by using the phrase fake news.  

He will be re-elected again.   Who can stop him?  The same people who said he couldn't win the first time.  Haha.  He does whatever it takes to get what he wants.  He is very good at it.  Is anyone mentioning about his tax returns anymore?  Russiagate?  Stormy Daniels? Noooooope, that's old news.  He won't be showing his tax returns during his reelection either.  I'm seriously enjoying this American real soap opera. Looool

Trump removed the two faced mask of politicians and showed the real deal.  By God, he is better than hypocrite Nasty woman 100 times.  

Trump is not dumb.  A dumb person can't make billions of dollars and be President of the US.  His policies are not going to end and we will see more controversial laws in effect.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah 

[ShiaMan14]

43 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Food stamps, cash assistance, housing assistance, schooling

No food stamps -  need SSN 

No cash assistance - need SSN

No housing assistance - need SSN

Free Schooling - myth. Illegals cannot buy property so they rent houses or apartments. No renter pays school taxes directly. It is usually part of the rental income so in fact illegals do not get free education.

They actually pay the government without being able to avail all the services.

[forte]

1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

You two are deliberately contriving statements l did not make. Re-read at the top where l wrote things "are messed up all the way around".

Just was responding to Shia14's post.  Did not know it was a continuation of other posts you (and he?) had made.  

Also didn't know that illegal immigrants qualified for welfare. Do you mean documented asylum seekers waiting a hearing or those who have no documentation at all?

[hasanhh]

15 minutes ago, ShiaMan14 said:

No food stamps -  need SSN 

No cash assistance - need SSN

No housing assistance - need SSN

Free Schooling - myth. Illegals cannot buy property so they rent houses or apartments. No renter pays school taxes directly. It is usually part of the rental income so in fact illegals do not get free education.

They actually pay the government without being able to avail all the services.

Then how do they get jobs that pay their income taxes on?

On your "Free Schooling" --not all schools a funded by property taxes alone. ln my state their is the municipal tax and RITA (Rural lncome Tax).. Plus the per capita indirect property tax by living in an apartment is less.

As far as your other "NOs", l seen this locally.

[hasanhh]

21 minutes ago, forte said:

Just was responding to Shia14's post.  Did not know it was a continuation of other posts you (and he?) had made.  

Also didn't know that illegal immigrants qualified for welfare. Do you mean documented asylum seekers waiting a hearing or those who have no documentation at all?

What specific "welfare" illegal entries get while awaiting their hearings by statute l can't recite. The free medical care is by law, which works this way: By federal statute medical and dental care cannot be denied. lf they can't pay then the care facility gets federal money. This was done after tens of hospitals went bankrupt in California and South Carolina. (Somebody on an other site wrote this happened in other places but l cannot remember where.)

[Laayla]

@hasanhh Assalam Alikum brother.

You are always referring to the law, but this is the reality of the country.

It happens everyday, but no coverage.  

[hasanhh]

@Laayla  l do not fathom why you posted something like this for my "benefit".

About 15 years ago,  a doctor-friend l know showed me this lnternet article of a California hospital that wheeled a quadriplegic out into the rain and he subsequently died. The hospital said it was because his benefits/coverage ran out. Of course, he was a white man.

[Laayla]

To say it is the law and then not enforcing or applying the law.

It's a corrupt system and nothing is being done about it.

[Sumerian]

1 hour ago, Laayla said:

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum 

Steal natural resources under the false pretext of WMDs, terrorism, regime change.  How many times have you been lied to @Sumerian

I think you are one of those Iraqis who are happy US got involved to destroy your country, whatever it took to get rid of Saddam, right?  Correct me if I'm wrong.

In turn, America has immigrated thousands of Iraqis to US.  If only you had a clue of how the Iraqi immigrants are doing in America.  Ask @Abu Hadi the numerous problems immigrants face.  

My cousin has been married over half a year now and is still waiting for a visa to bring his wife with him to the states.  Two years ago, this wasn't an issue, the spouse would be in the states within 3-4 months.  

Trump is a shrewd politician he absolutely knows what he is doing and he is fulfilling campaign promises.  When elections start again, he will remind his base and new voters what he has done during his presidency.  He definitely knows how to play the game.  He is an expert at it, he knows about the power of media, that's why he downplayed them by using the phrase fake news.  

He will be re-elected again.   Who can stop him?  The same people who said he couldn't win the first time.  Haha.  He does whatever it takes to get what he wants.  He is very good at it.  Is anyone mentioning about his tax returns anymore?  Russiagate?  Stormy Daniels? Noooooope, that's old news.  He won't be showing his tax returns during his reelection either.  I'm seriously enjoying this American real soap opera. Looool

Trump removed the two faced mask of politicians and showed the real deal.  By God, he is better than hypocrite Nasty woman 100 times.  

Trump is not dumb.  A dumb person can't make billions of dollars and be President of the US.  His policies are not going to end and we will see more controversial laws in effect.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah 

No, I would rather Iraq remain under Saddam Hussein then watch my country be invaded by the US or any other country.

But what does that have to do with immigration and Mexico?

Edited June 19, 2018 by Sumerian

[Abu Hadi]

Like many have said, including the former secretary of Homeland Security, Janet Napaletano, Trump could end this with one stroke of a pen, if he wanted to. 

The fact that they must be detained and deported (if their asylum claim is denied) is a matter of Federal Law, enacted by Congress

BUT...

How migrants, legal or illegal and their families are processed thru the US Immigration System, is fully under control of the President. 

So this is Trump again, playing the Big Tuff guy to his base, and who is suffering are those that have already suffered alot. 

[Laayla]

Bismehe Ta3ala, 

Assalam Alikum brother 

I'm very happy for the correction.  Alhamd'Allah.  Ibn asal @Sumerian

I'm making a connection of the failing American foreign policy with the influx of immigrants who enter America after the invasion. 

Stop their imperialism and take care of their own people first.  Why do they have their tentacles on Iraq, Syria, Yemen?

 

Before it was Iraqis, now it is the Syrians.  But with Syrians they are more strict.  They take the educated and severe health cases.

Most Americans are unaware that we are a country at war — seven wars, in fact.

The United States is currently bombing and/or deploying combat troops in at least seven countries: Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Libya, and Yemen. Make that number eight if we include Niger, where four U.S. soldiers were killed last year in a country that most members of Congress weren’t even aware that the U.S. had a military presence. 

https://medium.com/@williamhartung55/from-endless-war-to-diplomacy-first-time-for-a-new-foreign-policy-18d9d10ffdf

 

M3 Salamah, Fe Amin Allah 

Edited June 19, 2018 by Laayla

[hasanhh]

1 hour ago, Laayla said:

To say it is the law and then not enforcing or applying the law.

It's a corrupt system and nothing is being done about it.

@Nawazistan on PBS News Hour , 19June18, said that immigration lawyers  <---catch the who?-  are saying that everything is now so messed up with court rulings, unclear regulations and such that "they cannot navigate the  system". The full episode should be available tomorrow. lt is in the initial part of the news cast. This is not about financial corruption, but it is about political corruption.

So, abolish Asylum law.

[Sumerian]

1 hour ago, Laayla said:

Bismehe Ta3ala, 

Assalam Alikum brother 

I'm very happy for the correction.  Alhamd'Allah.  Ibn asal @Sumerian

I'm making a connection of the failing American foreign policy with the influx of immigrants who enter America after the invasion. 

Stop their imperialism and take care of their own people first.  Why do they have their tentacles on Iraq, Syria, Yemen?

 

Before it was Iraqis, now it is the Syrians.  But with Syrians they are more strict.  They take the educated and severe health cases.

Most Americans are unaware that we are a country at war — seven wars, in fact.

The United States is currently bombing and/or deploying combat troops in at least seven countries: Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Libya, and Yemen. Make that number eight if we include Niger, where four U.S. soldiers were killed last year in a country that most members of Congress weren’t even aware that the U.S. had a military presence. 

https://medium.com/@williamhartung55/from-endless-war-to-diplomacy-first-time-for-a-new-foreign-policy-18d9d10ffdf

 

M3 Salamah, Fe Amin Allah 

Thank you for your kind words. I'm against American presence in Iraq, or any foreign presence, even though the Iraqi military said it is necessary, but I'm still against it.

We know America loves war. 

But I'm mainly speaking about Mexican illegal immigration.

[notme]

2 hours ago, forte said:

Also didn't know that illegal immigrants qualified for welfare. Do you mean documented asylum seekers waiting a waiting a hearing or those who have no documentation at all?

They do not, but it's a widely spread falsehood. 

[ShiaMan14]

2 hours ago, hasanhh said:

Then how do they get jobs that pay their income taxes on?

On your "Free Schooling" --not all schools a funded by property taxes alone. ln my state their is the municipal tax and RITA (Rural lncome Tax).. Plus the per capita indirect property tax by living in an apartment is less.

As far as your other "NOs", l seen this locally.

Simple - they don't pay Medicare or SS taxes and hence can't avail those services. 

As for schooling, a lot of times the schools these children go to are poorly run in poor neighborhoods. Are there reports from your state that show how much money is spent on schooling for illegal immigrants and a report showing how much they add to the state's economy? Otherwise, it's just rhetoric.

[ShiaMan14]

4 hours ago, forte said:

Also didn't know that illegal immigrants qualified for welfare. Do you mean documented asylum seekers waiting a hearing or those who have no documentation at all?

Neither receive any welfare.

[hasanhh]

7 minutes ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Neither receive any welfare.

How narrowly are you defining "welfare" ?

[ShiaMan14]

1 minute ago, hasanhh said:

How narrowly are you defining "welfare" ?

Medicare, SS, Food stamps, etc.

[hasanhh]

4 minutes ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Medicare, SS, Food stamps, etc.

Here a couple of benefit sites for Asylees:

https://www.asylumprojectdc.org/partners-1-1/ 

https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/benefits-and-responsibilities-asylees 

The freebies you and l do not get.

Edited June 20, 2018 by hasanhh

[Abu Hadi]

4 hours ago, forte said:

Just was responding to Shia14's post.  Did not know it was a continuation of other posts you (and he?) had made.  

Also didn't know that illegal immigrants qualified for welfare. Do you mean documented asylum seekers waiting a hearing or those who have no documentation at all? 

Those immigrants who get caught crossing the border illegally are detained by immigration in a detention center (a jail) until their case is heard by a judge. Then they are either allowed to stay (granted asylum) or deported. Under Obama, 99% were deported. Under Trump, it's 99.9% 

The US Immigration is different from the UK system that many brothers and sisters are familiar with. Under the UK system, those who cross illegally are released pending trial and they have to report back to the immigration office every week, which most of them never do(I spent a few hours binge watching UK Border Force during Ramadan to kill time). They abscond and are captured over and over again. 

In the US, they are held in prison until their case is settled. This could take months or sometimes years. The only difference now is that Trump is keeping kids and their parents in seperate detention centers. There is no reason, under US Immigration law, to do this. It probably even is illegal since the Constitution forbids cruel and unusual punishment. This is both cruel and unusual. 

It says something when even Laura Bush, who supported and supports Aung San Suu Kyi, the taghut of Burma, but feels the need to speak out against this. 

[ShiaMan14]

1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

Here a couple of benefit sites for Asylees:

https://www.asylumprojectdc.org/partners-1-1/ 

https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/benefits-and-responsibilities-asylees 

The freebies you and l do not get.

You are grasping at straws brother. 

Link #1 is a charitable organization for asylum seekers. That's like some with both parents complaining about not getting charity from orphanages. 

2) it's for asylees...they are not illegal.

[notme]

5 hours ago, hasanhh said:

Then how do they get jobs that pay their income taxes on?

The people I've known who were here illegally either worked for pay "under the table", used a social security number of a citizen who chose to not work, in exchange for paying "their" tax and giving them the social security benefit, or are self employed. Income taxes are definitely a problem with undocumented workers. But that's not what we are discussing here.

They are keeping INFANTS in holding facilities. Why are these babies not with their mothers, as has been done always in the past? They don't even have a plan for reuniting them. 

[wolverine]

12 minutes ago, notme said:

The people I've known who were here illegally either worked for pay "under the table", used a social security number of a citizen who chose to not work, in exchange for paying "their" tax and giving them the social security benefit, or are self employed. Income taxes are definitely a problem with undocumented workers. But that's not what we are discussing here.

They are keeping INFANTS in holding facilities. Why are these babies not with their mothers, as has been done always in the past? They don't even have a plan for reuniting them. 

I ran out of likes. I have to like your post later. 

[Gaius I. Caesar]

9 hours ago, hasanhh said:

You two are deliberately contriving statements l did not make.

You are being in denial and arguing for the sake of arguing. 

9 hours ago, hasanhh said:

Working underground jobs gives them a wage and keeps our costs down. Which is criminal evasion of taxes.

Which corporations and small business who support Trump or any other Republican exploit  to make more money. It's paid slavery and evasion of taxes, something you clearly don't understand and don't care to either. ^

[hasanhh]

5 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

You are grasping at straws brother. 

Link #1 is a charitable organization for asylum seekers. That's like some with both parents complaining about not getting charity from orphanages. 

2) it's for asylees...they are not illegal.

Not so. #1 is subversive activity like CISPES was in the 70s and 80s.  #2 "asylees" includes temporary status, like resident cards for immigrant wives and children of US citizens.

[hasanhh]

3 hours ago, notme said:

The people I've known who were here illegally either worked for pay "under the table", used a social security number of a citizen who chose to not work, in exchange for paying "their" tax and giving them the social security benefit, or are self employed. Income taxes are definitely a problem with undocumented workers. But that's not what we are discussing here.

They are keeping INFANTS in holding facilities. Why are these babies not with their mothers, as has been done always in the past? They don't even have a plan for reuniting them. 

para 1: Then why don't you turn them in like a good citizen?

para 2: Is there not Foster Care for the children of incarcerated convicts? Social Services is already short Foster Parents. Where are they supposed to find Latino-speaking Foster Parents for thousands of minors?

[hasanhh]

2 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

You are being in denial and arguing for the sake of arguing. 

Notme made the same false accusation.

[hasanhh]

7 hours ago, hasanhh said:

@Nawazistan on PBS News Hour , 19June18, said that immigration lawyers  <---catch the who?-  are saying that everything is now so messed up with court rulings, unclear regulations and such that "they cannot navigate the  system". The full episode should be available tomorrow. lt is in the initial part of the news cast. This is not about financial corruption, but it is about political corruption.

So, abolish Asylum law.

Amna Nawaz's stand-up interview from El Paso starts @ ~7 minutes and goes into 9 minutes of the broadcast. Posted to save you time.

[hasanhh]

14 hours ago, notme said:

It isn't just money. Many are running from towns overrun by drug cartels who will enslave, rape, or kill them and the police are unwilling or unable to do anything to stop it. 

Then the US should provide military police assistance rather than running around Afghanistan, sub-Sahara Afrika and help them liberate their own homes  --rather than bankrupting ours.

[edit]

Edited June 20, 2018 by Hameedeh
You are able to edit your own post before 1 hour passes.

[Gaius I. Caesar]

32 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Notme made the same false accusation.

Yet, I am not. I am pointing out your problem. She is right, you're arguing because you want to.  Why?

33 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Is there not Foster Care for the children of incarcerated convicts? Social Services is already short Foster Parents. Where are they supposed to find Latino-speaking Foster Parents for thousands of minors?

Maybe if the current administration would stop cutting government funding for Social Services, this wouldn't be an issue.  ^ Latino is an ethnicity, not  a language, I believe you meant Spanish.  Again, these problems prop up when you cut funding on the Social Services.

[Laayla]

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum.

Brother @hasanhh

In Islam, family is of utmost importance.  Especially the bond between mother and child.

Brother, could you see the IR Iran separating Afghani mothers from their children?

Look at Lebanon, we have the most Syrian refugees in the world.  What would the American public say if Lebanon decided to put undocumented Syrian mothers in detention centers and seperate them from their children?

I don't know maybe you can't relate to something if it is missing in your life.  Excuse me for bringing it up, I respect you and bring it up with sincerity. Forgive me.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Laayla

[hasanhh]

1 hour ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Yet, I am not. I am pointing out your problem. She is right, you're arguing because you want to.  Why?

Again, not true. Yet since you insist on asserting this l'II answer in part, this way.

Letting in millions of illegal entries is insane. The media shows some crying child and everyone seems to go brain dead. A small child cries because that is what they do. Go to Disneyland and you'll find several crying. Go to Toyland, you hear cries. Go to the store, one is crying. Mommy can pick them up and they start to cry. lt is what small children do. And Sen. Schemmer wails "the agonizing screams of small children" (CBS News-19/20June).

What are you SC and other  "do-gooders" going to do with these vagrants? The US has and million and a half dumb kids in high school quit school every year and then cannot find decent employment. The surveys of these illegal entries found that at best they have 6th Grade educations. What are you believing? People like this are capable of doing no more than sweeping floors and hauling garbage. Jobs already taken by the drop-outs.

And in the middle of an opioid crisis !

So while l am writing this, CBS reports on a woman who is suing Trump for taking away her 7-year-old. She fled Guatemala because "her husband threatened to kill her". "The American people have gotten laughably stew-pid."

Now, to shorten this, l'II end with an OPINE: You see the right-wingers in Austria and Germany spring up, financed in large part by Amerikan money. But here in the US it is different. Resentment is building. A few years ago it was reported the illegal entries were murdering 12 Americans a day by drunk driving alone. "OH No! You can't report that. lt will lead to discrimination." So when did you last here stats like that one?  Or Latino names not reported in criminal arrests for the same reason --including where l am. (Yeah, l know cops.)  Our, the US, debt and entitlements for the next decades are a couple of times more than Global GDP. This will create an economic collapse alone without the illegals. Evicting these vagrants is a matter of Nat'l security. Mass Resentment is a dangerous thing. lt could happen on one incident/tragedy, but more likely in a few incidents. Either way, if a "to-hell-with-this" gets started, then as a historian l can write: we can end-up with a death-squad style of reaction. Then what?  And you can figure out for yourself what the liabilities the said  "they are all hopeful, little Einsteins, born gooder than baby jezeus" crowd will face.

And as l ended this, my local news is showing the vandalism of a black man's truck with racist graffiti. The potential for uncontrolled violence is here.

Abolish the Asylum law.

See a couple of references above, like the News Hour for 19June.

Edited June 20, 2018 by hasanhh
quote correction