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Hi guys, I saw this chat group and it was about Mahdi and number 313. What's the connection?

I'm curious because one of the important battles in Babi and Baha'i history was the battle of fort tabarsi, where 313 Babis were fighting against thousands of shahs army, and they won.

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Hello, megaman. ShiaChat has a club called The Mahdi (as) & The 313. It's for our Shia members. They discuss things about the 12th Imam, may Allah SWT hasten his return.

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/clubs/16-the-mahdi-as-the-313/

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It seems that some sources put the number higher than 313, read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Tabarsi

As for the significance of 313: Imam al-Mahdi (as) is expected to have 313 special companions. This is the same number of Muslims at Badr and obedient soldiers in the army of Talut.

 

علي بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن منصور بن يونس، عن إسماعيل بن جابر، عن أبي خالد، عن أبي جعفر (عليه السلام) في قول الله عز وجل: " فاستبقوا الخيرات أينما تكونوا يأت بكم الله جميعا (1) " قال: الخيرات الولاية وقوله تبارك وتعالى: " أينما تكونوا يأت بكم الله جميعا " يعني أصحاب القائم الثلاثمائة والبضعة عشر رجلا، قال: وهم والله الامة المعدودة قال: يجتمعون والله في ساعة واحدة قزع كقزع الخريف (2).


`Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from Ibn Abi `Umayr from Mansoor b. Yunus from Isma`il b. Jabir from Abi Khalid from Abi Ja`far عليه السلام regarding the words of Allah عز و جل, “Hasten to the good, wherever you are, Allah will bring you together” (2:148). He said: “The good” refers to the authority (wilaya). And His saying, “Wherever you are, Allah will bring you together” refers to the companions of the Qa’im who will be a few [over] three hundred and ten men.[1] He said: By Allah they are the nation of an insignificant amount. He said: By Allah, He will gather them in one hour like the cirrus clouds of autumn. (al-Kafi, Volume 8, hadith #487)

(hasan muwathaq) (حسن موثق)

 

وبهذا الاسناد، عن أبان بن تغلب قال: قال أبو عبد الله عليه السلام: سيأتي في مسجدكم ثلاثمائة وثلاثة عشر رجلا - يعني مسجد مكة - يعلم أهل مكة أنه لم يلدهم آباؤهم ولا أجدادهم، عليهم السيوف مكتوب على كل سيف (2) كلمة تفتح ألف كلمة، فيبعث الله تبارك وتعالى ريحا فتنادي بكل واد؟ هذا المهدي، يقضي بقضاء داود وسليمان عليهما السلام، [و] لا يريد عليه بينة.

 

And by this isnad[2] from Aban b. Taghlub.

He said: Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام said: Three hundred and thirteen men will meet in your Mosque – meaning, the Mosque of Mecca – and the people of Mecca will know that they are neither the descendants of their fathers nor their grandfathers. They will carry swords, and upon every sword, a word (kalima)[3] that opens one thousand words is written. Then Allah تبارك وتعالى will send a breeze that shall call out in every valley, “This is the Mahdi who will judge by the judgment of Dawud and Sulayman عليهما السلام, and he will not ask for evidence”. (Kamal ad-Deen, Volume 2, Miscellaneous, hadith #19)

(sahih) (صحيح)

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Hi @Qa'im, thank you, that was very informative. 

Another interesting fact is that before Mulla Husayn headed toward that place, he unfurled the Black Standard in Khorasan (which I believe there is a hadith about). With the war cry of "Yá Ṣáḥibu'z-Zamán!", he charged into battle. Mulla Husayn was killed in that battle. Abbas Quli Khan, the commander of the forces of the Shah, had this to say about him:

The truth of the matter is that anyone who had not seen Kerbala would, if he had seen Tabarsi, not only have comprehended what there took place, but would have ceased to consider it;

Quote

The truth of the matter is that anyone who had not seen Kerbala would, if he had seen Tabarsi, not only have comprehended what there took place, but would have ceased to consider it; and had he seen Mullá Husayn of Bushraweyh he would have been convinced that the Chief of Martyrs had returned to earth; and had he witnessed my deeds he would assuredly have said 'This is Shimr come back with sword and lance.'

— Abbás-Qulí Khán, Quoted by Mirza Husein in the Tarikh-i-Jadid

When the forces of Shah failed to penetrate the fortress after months of trying, they swore on the Quran that no hard would come to them if they come out. Another Babi leader, Quddus, accepted it to allow them to prove their honesty. Quddus was supposed to be taken to the Shah but was given to angry mob of that city and martyred.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mullá_Husayn#Battle_of_Fort_Tabarsi

I love the quote by Muhammad al-Baqir in your signature. It is very fitting for this event.

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Oh great! I love how Baha'is try to portray the Bab and his followers as peaceful people fighting for a just cause. Babi history was distorted by Babis and Baha'is with the intention of making it look like the Bab was the Mahdi. The reason the Iranian government was fighting against the Babis is this: The Bab was the equivalent of a 19th century ISIS with barbaric laws in his religion called the BAYAN. These laws were so barbaric that the Baha'i leader Abdu'l-baha had no choice but to confess that:

“The utterance of the [book or religion] of Bayan in the day of the appearance of his Highness A`la (meaning the Bab) was to behead, burn the books, destroy the monuments, and massacre [everyone] but those who believed [in the Bab’s religion] and verified it,” Abdu’l-Baha, Makatib (Egypt: 1330 AH), vol. 2, p. 266.

In order to fulfill these laws the Babis wreaked havoc in Iran and they were suppressed by the Persian government. But Babi and Baha'i historians will portray the Babis as oppressed saints. Professor Edward Browne the British orientalist narrates how the Babis fought at Fort Tabarsi by killing government envoys and burning down defenseless villages that they wanted to plunder:

"During this revolt the Bábís took up a fortified position 10 or 12 miles from Bárfurúsh, at the shrine of Shaykh Tabarsí, near the river Tálár; they were few in number, but determined and fanatic, and after putting several envoys of the authorities to death, they prepared for a siege by collecting provisions from the neighbouring country; whenever the villagers hesitated or refused to give what they required, their houses were burnt about their ears." (Professor Edward Browne, Materials for the Study of the Babi Religion, p. 241 (circa. 1918))"

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Hi @hadez803, I don't disagree that the Babis did these things but since when do we attach what the adherence of religion did to that of the religion itself. 

Was Imam Husayn not killed by Muslims?

Sure, the laws of the Bayan are controversial and extreme at times but it was only until "He Whom God Shall Make Manifest", Baha'u'llah's appearance, which was 19 years after the declaration of the Bab. Furthermore, this quote by the Bab clears things up a bit more:

Quote

A thousand perusals of the Bayan […] cannot equal the perusal of a single verse to be revealed by ‘Him Whom God shall make manifest.’… Today the Bayan is in the stage of seed; at the beginning of the manifestation of ‘Him Whom God shall make manifest’ its ultimate perfection will become apparent -The Bab

 The Persian Bayan was completed after 1848 to it's laws were only in effect for 15 years, until the proclamation of Baha'u'llah in 1863.

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19 minutes ago, megaman said:

Hi @hadez803, I don't disagree that the Babis did these things but since when do we attach what the adherence of religion did to that of the religion itself.

Since the time that the followers are acting exactly according to the laws of their religion:

“The utterance of the [book or religion] of Bayan in the day of the appearance of his Highness A`la (meaning the Bab) was to behead, burn the books, destroy the monuments, and massacre [everyone] but those who believed [in the Bab’s religion] and verified it,” Abdu’l-Baha, Makatib (Egypt: 1330 AH), vol. 2, p. 266.

The Babis that fought at Fort Tabarsi were a bunch of Barbarians who murdered delegates and burned down innocent villages that refused to give them free provisions. Don't even dare to compare them to the 313 special companions of Imam Mahdi.

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34 minutes ago, hadez803 said:

“The utterance of the [book or religion] of Bayan in the day of the appearance of his Highness A`la (meaning the Bab) was to behead, burn the books, destroy the monuments, and massacre [everyone] but those who believed [in the Bab’s religion] and verified it,” Abdu’l-Baha, Makatib (Egypt: 1330 AH), vol. 2, p. 266.

Hi @hadez803, could you post the source?

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On 6/18/2018 at 6:00 AM, megaman said:

Hi guys, I saw this chat group and it was about Mahdi and number 313. What's the connection?

I'm curious because one of the important battles in Babi and Baha'i history was the battle of fort tabarsi, where 313 Babis were fighting against thousands of shahs army, and they won.

Babis were fighting with Shias, they killed many Shias. The Babis (who were Akhbari - Shaykhis & Ghulats) believed in the abrogation of Islam and they caused revolts in Iran causing huge casualties.

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On 6/18/2018 at 11:42 AM, megaman said:

Hi @Qa'im, thank you, that was very informative. 

Another interesting fact is that before Mulla Husayn headed toward that place, he unfurled the Black Standard in Khorasan (which I believe there is a hadith about). With the war cry of "Yá Ṣáḥibu'z-Zamán!", he charged into battle. Mulla Husayn was killed in that battle. Abbas Quli Khan, the commander of the forces of the Shah, had this to say about him:

The truth of the matter is that anyone who had not seen Kerbala would, if he had seen Tabarsi, not only have comprehended what there took place, but would have ceased to consider it;

When the forces of Shah failed to penetrate the fortress after months of trying, they swore on the Quran that no hard would come to them if they come out. Another Babi leader, Quddus, accepted it to allow them to prove their honesty. Quddus was supposed to be taken to the Shah but was given to angry mob of that city and martyred.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mullá_Husayn#Battle_of_Fort_Tabarsi

I love the quote by Muhammad al-Baqir in your signature. It is very fitting for this event.

So Mulla Husayn is the return of Imam Husayn or Baha'u'llah is the return of Imam Husayn? According to Baha'ism who is the "Return of Imam Husayn"?

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1 hour ago, Badi19 said:

Babis were fighting with Shias, they killed many Shias. The Babis (who were Akhbari - Shaykhis & Ghulats) believed in the abrogation of Islam and they caused revolts in Iran causing huge casualties.

Hi @Badi19, given that this was in Iran, they were probably fighting Shias. I wouldn't say abrogation of Islam because as followers of Mahdi, they would consider themselves Muslims, more like a renewal of religion. The each dispensation has a fixed time and nothing can change it. Similar to the coming of Christ with new laws and teachings, the laws of Judaism was replaced with new appropriate ones for that age. 

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And for every nation is a [specified] term. So when their time has come, they will not remain behind an hour, nor will they precede [it]. (Quran 7:34) https://quran.com/7/34

With regards to the return of Imam Husayn, it would not be in a literal sense because the belief is the return of Mahdi and Christ, both of Whom Bahai's believe to be Messengers. I believe that the return of Imam Husayn could be referring to Baha'u'llah, Mirza Husayn Ali Nuri, in the sense that Imam Husayn was pure and innocent and yet He was unjustly treated. 

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1 hour ago, megaman said:

Hi @Badi19, given that this was in Iran, they were probably fighting Shias. I wouldn't say abrogation of Islam because as followers of Mahdi, they would consider themselves Muslims, more like a renewal of religion. The each dispensation has a fixed time and nothing can change it. Similar to the coming of Christ with new laws and teachings, the laws of Judaism was replaced with new appropriate ones for that age. 

With regards to the return of Imam Husayn, it would not be in a literal sense because the belief is the return of Mahdi and Christ, both of Whom Bahai's believe to be Messengers. I believe that the return of Imam Husayn could be referring to Baha'u'llah, Mirza Husayn Ali Nuri, in the sense that Imam Husayn was pure and innocent and yet He was unjustly treated. 

Hi Megaman,

Those were not the followers of Mahdi. They were the followers of Shaykh Ahmad Ahsai who had weird beliefs regarding Mahdi and many other issues. And he founded the cult of Shaykhism, that paved the way for Babism.

Quote

The sense of messianic anticipation within Shi‘ism was intensified by the spread of the doctrines of the Shaykhi School, named for Shaykh Ahmad al-Ahsa’i (1753-1826). He advanced a metaphorical interpretation of certain traditional tenets of Islam, claiming that the Hidden Imam existed not on earth but in a spiritual realm where he guided the faithful through a ‘perfect Shi‘i’ who was a ‘gate’ to the Imam. Shaykh Ahmad’s doctrines prepared the way for the widespread response within the Shi‘i community, particularly the Shaykhis, to the appearance of the Bab.
(Baha’is of Iran, Transcaspia and the Caucasus, The Volume 1: Letters of Russian Officers and Officials, Volume 1)

Regarding your claims about return of Imam Husayn please read this:

Quote

Baha'u'llah went to the shrine city of Karbala in Iraq, the site of the tomb of the Imam Husayn, where a small but active Babi group existed. He found that it was led by a Sayyid 'Uluvv, who had made claims to being God incarnate. Baha'u'llah faced the man down and convinced him to retract those claims. On the other hand, during his stay in Karbala between August 1851 and March 1852, Baha'u'llah told some of his close companions that he was himself the return of the Imam Husayn, whose return Shi`ites expected after the advent of the Qa'im or Mahdi.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahabio.htm

 

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