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In the Name of God بسم الله
rkazmi33

Madonna- [Edited Out] complex

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I agree with you, that men generally do have such tendencies to treat women in a bad way, look down and emotionally abuse them.

Being a Pakistani, a lot of our jokes do revolve around degrading women. Just look at some popular Pakistani YouTubers, most of them will make jokes about how a woman has to 'clean the dishes etc'. Millions of people watch such videos, and even girls laugh at how they are being portrayed. We need to stop this culture, and teach men that women are valuable. Why are women always shown to be in the kitchen? Why are they shouted at or sent to the kitchen, in literally so many dramas. If this is "culture", then it can go straight in the trash bin.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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35 minutes ago, rkazmi33 said:

 Most of the jokes or comedy dramas revolve around one idea: how men are annoyed by their wives, they resent their wives and they like all other women except for their wives. 

 

I feel like that's the opposite of American tv shows. The jokes usually revolve around the wife degrading her husband and women are portrayed as superior and more intelligent than their simple, lazy, sex-obsessed husbands.

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38 minutes ago, rkazmi33 said:

I was, and we can debate about this but there have been countless threads onshiachat posted by married women about the abuse. You can clearly see that even in the jokes which are made about wives in our culture. Men find them hilarious but they are so offensive for women, especially married women. Most of the jokes or comedy dramas revolve around one idea: how men are annoyed by their wives, they resent their wives and they like all other women except for their wives. 

1

I think it depends on a person's environment and how you parents treated their wives. Anyone who was raised like a gentleman would never treat his wife bad. 

43 minutes ago, rkazmi33 said:

Another similarity of handmaid's tale with real life: when Nick gets married, they show that Serena is very envious of his wife because she will be able to have physical relations. I have seen this in real life, that women who don't get married are so jealous of married women and their jealousy is considered reasonable. It astonishes me so much, I think that this woman has so much power and respect, why is she feeling jealous of that worthless woman who is degraded and treated like slave and why is this kind of jealousy acceptable? 

A couple of days ago I was talking to my wife and I said you know women are women's worst enemies. They could never see each other happy. 

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Don't know who this guy is, but it sounds like he used to look at his mother in a strange way and then wanted to project that on everyone else so he doesn't think he's the only one.

This guy seems creepy. 

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36 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Don't know who this guy is, but it sounds like he used to look at his mother in a strange way and then wanted to project that on everyone else so he doesn't think he's the only one.

This guy seems creepy. 

Who Freud? 

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On 6/17/2018 at 2:59 PM, rkazmi33 said:

I think there's a lot of shame and disgust attached with marriage. Married women are considered [Edited Out]s because people assume since they are married, they are doing "the act". People who chose to remain single get a lot of respect and prestige. This is most apparent in behavior of men. I have noticed whenever they are asked about love, they always mention that I love my mother, or I love my daughter. Very few men express any love for their wives. Since men use their wives for their physical needs, they are only able to give them animal love, which involves degrading or abusing but they are not able to give sacred love to their wives. This is why most married men have affairs, they have to give their sacred love to someone, and that someone needs to be a woman who is a mystery, a stranger. I have often heard stories in both eastern and western culture that a man spends months and years chasing  a woman until she agrees to sleep with him. As soon as that happens, man looses interest and respect for that woman. If one time can have such an effect, imagine how can they respect and value a woman after many times.  People suggest that men should give flowers, take their wives to dinner, and all those things we see in movies, but I don't think they are of any use. You can easily tell if a person hates you or loves you. So men can try as much as they want, the resentment and disgust they feel for their wives is apparent. If their wives can get affection from other men, they can be happy, otherwise they are miserable. 

I actually think the complete opposite. Unmarried women are more so degraded than married women in my opinion, especially in our cultures. Unmarried women are prized more if they are more obedient, dress more modestly, talk less/ are less "mouthy" , if they're smart etc. Also, unmarried women are almost like commodities to be passed from father to groom. (I'm generalising ALOT here and I'm looking at worst case scenario, I know it's not that bad in all parts of the world). And married women are valued more in my opinion, because they're essentially bringing up and raising the future generations, so I don't get how this relates to the Madonna-W complex. I don't think that the change in the way women aren't treated before and after marriage is that drastic, unless it's in a third world, extremely sexist country. 

Edited by Hameedeh
Excessively long quote was shortened in length.

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11 hours ago, starlight said:

Off topic but I just came to know of the existence of this show through this thread. I googled it and wanted to throw up after just skimming through the plot and people actually enjoy watching something this sick!!! Look at the ratings! Gosh! 

What's wrong with people?  Do they realise they are passively feeding this crap into their minds when they sit down to watch such show, which will later translate into actions in their lives. No wonder mental health problems are on the rise.

Again, off-topic but why don't you like it?? Ive only seen a few episodes but I don't see why it would cause mental health problems. In my opinion, it gives an important message about society, and the way the society in the Handmaids Tale does kinda mirror the discriminatory beliefs that the likes of Isis are founded upon.

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1 hour ago, Amira00 said:

Again, off-topic but why don't you like it

You answered your own question in the last line Handmaids Tale does kinda mirror the discriminatory beliefs that the likes of Isis are founded upon.

A woman cutting her own ear off, another has her eyeball taken out, women forced to work as slaves, raped, mutilated, it's very disturbing and unhealthy to watch. Watching such things over the years gradually desensitizes one to violence, in this case violence against women. 

'Neurocinematics' is an emerging field which focuses on the chemical changes in the brain in response to different genres of movies. 

The effects of horror movies in altering the brain chemistry are pretty well documented. I don't know if there have been any studies on dystopian cinema but I am sure the outcomes are pretty obvious. 

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1 hour ago, starlight said:

You answered your own question in the last line Handmaids Tale does kinda mirror the discriminatory beliefs that the likes of Isis are founded upon.

A woman cutting her own ear off, another has her eyeball taken out, women forced to work as slaves, raped, mutilated, it's very disturbing and unhealthy to watch. Watching such things over the years gradually desensitizes one to violence, in this case violence against women. 

'Neurocinematics' is an emerging field which focuses on the chemical changes in the brain in response to different genres of movies. 

The effects of horror movies in altering the brain chemistry are pretty well documented. I don't know if there have been any studies on dystopian cinema but I am sure the outcomes are pretty obvious. 

I agree, it may desensitise people to such violence, but isn't it better to open conversation about this? 

Women in Isis and other cults are victimised in the same way, but people hardly ever talk about it. These women need help. Yes, maybe the way they're depicting it is too gory and vivid but nonetheless, it's  raising awareness. It presents the captive slaves of Isis and other cults as more human and real, rather just some fictional unimportant beings. 

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@Amira00 It's one thing to discuss the things being done by ISIS and another thing to make a hit TV show based on these practices. 

If the point is just to discuss such inhumane practices it can be done with the use of documentaries and lectures rather than a more glossy medium like a drama.  

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2 hours ago, Amira00 said:

I actually think the complete opposite. Unmarried women are more so degraded than married women in my opinion, especially in our cultures. Unmarried women are prized more if they are more obedient, dress more modestly, talk less/ are less "mouthy" , if they're smart etc. Also, unmarried women are almost like commodities to be passed from father to groom. (I'm generalising ALOT here and I'm looking at worst case scenario, I know it's not that bad in all parts of the world). And married women are valued more in my opinion, because they're essentially bringing up and raising the future generations, so I don't get how this relates to the Madonna-W complex. I don't think that the change in the way women aren't treated before and after marriage is that drastic, unless it's in a third world, extremely sexist country. 

I don't know it may be a middle class thing. In my community, people actually feel proud that women are pampered so much before marriage, and they deal with such harsh conditions after marriage. My mother was pampered a lot before marriage, but her life was really hard after marriage. Now whenever I try to help her in house-work, she tell me if you want to help me, get married. She became very strict with me when I was married, and she is cold-hearted towards my married sister. Whenever I mention her problems, she always says, no she is living a very good life, she has no problem, everything is fine. I don't agree with this thinking. I think if you pamper a person, it will become harder for that person to deal with hardships. 

You would think that women should be valued more because they are bringing up and raising future generations. But that's what's strange about handmaid's tale also, handmaids are the most valuable resources, still they are degraded and abused the most. I even heard a  comment from a woman, that you are considered a child until  you get married. As soon as you get married, you are considered an adult. 

Edited by rkazmi33

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4 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

I agree with you, that men generally do have such tendencies to treat women in a bad way, look down and emotionally abuse them.

Being a Pakistani, a lot of our jokes do revolve around degrading women. Just look at some popular Pakistani YouTubers, most of them will make jokes about how a woman has to 'clean the dishes etc'. Millions of people watch such videos, and even girls laugh at how they are being portrayed. We need to stop this culture, and teach men that women are valuable. Why are women always shown to be in the kitchen? Why are they shouted at or sent to the kitchen, in literally so many dramas. If this is "culture", then it can go straight in the trash bin.

This is so true. Jokes degrading wives especially are so common. I grew up listening to that humor and until I got married, I never realized how offensive and hurtful all those jokes are. Now, it's so hard for me to listen to them. I agree even women on facebook share such offensive jokes about wives, I just want to ask them: you are a woman yourself, why do you think this is funny? 

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17 hours ago, rkazmi33 said:

This is so true. Jokes degrading wives especially are so common. I grew up listening to that humor and until I got married, I never realized how offensive and hurtful all those jokes are. Now, it's so hard for me to listen to them. I agree even women on facebook share such offensive jokes about wives, I just want to ask them: you are a woman yourself, why do you think this is funny? 

As I said earlier it's all about how you were raised if you saw your parents as lovebirds than most probably you will be a loving husband or wife as well. And jokes are jokes you don't take them to heart. If someone thinks they are offensive you don't joke with them, but if you are comfortable with each other then it doesn't matter. 

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