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In the Name of God بسم الله
shia_100

Are crimes lower in countries under sharia law?

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Today we had a discussion in class with my religion teacher about capital punishment. She's completely against capital punishment as she says we don't gain anything at the end by killing another human, but I told her that capital punishment also acted as a deterrant meaning that crime rates would decrease. I'm just wondering if this is actually true in countries under sharia law like Iran and Saudi Arabia or even in countries such as China. Do these countries that apply capital punishment have much lower crime rates than other countries?

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13 minutes ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

I am inclined to think it would be lower, but don't know for sure.
Brother @Ashvazdanghe what do you say ?

I think it is true but definition of Iran & KSA is completly against each other.

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1 minute ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

I think it is true but definition of Iran & KSA is completly against each other.

Yes brother, i agree that KSA doesn't even qualify. The OP wanted to know about a country where the sharia is in effect, so I wanted you to give him some information about Iran.

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I've heard that the hand cutting law is quite good in preventing people from stealing in Saudi Arabia.

Harsher laws are effective in my opinion if implemented correctly, but you do require a just government.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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3 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Harsher laws are effective in my opinion if implemented correctly, but you do require a just government.

I believe that too, however for westernised people these laws are quite hard to swallow just the thought of someone getting their hand chopped off scares many of us including me

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31 minutes ago, erik said:

what do you mean by that

What the brother meant that is that the Saudi law is anything but Sharia. 

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23 minutes ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

What the brother meant that is that the Saudi law is anything but Sharia. 

The laws on Hudud between Sunnis and Shi'a are not very different. Other than the incorrect application of the Shari'ah by the Saudi officials where they target innocents like poltical opponents or Shi'a Muslims, but on paper and how they are overwhelmingly applied to general citzens, their laws are basically Hanbali Laws.

Edited by Sumerian

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Like I said, it depends. Somalia, for example, applies some Islamic punishment but the country is already ravaged by terrorists, pirates, gangsters and drug dealers. 

To me it depends on the high level of policing. If you have a capable police force and strong intelligence, then you will have a lower crime rate.

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I think this link will be enough to give you your answer http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Saudi-Arabia/United-States/Crime

Just to summarise burglaries are 7144 times more than rate in Saudi 

Murder rate is over 5 times more 

Robberies are 50 times more 

Murder rate is 49 times more 

 

 However as @Sumerian said a lot depends on how you implement it; high level of policing who are capable, strong intelligence etc. And i would say Saudi has both of these. Countries like Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen and many more have much higher crime rates even though they have Sharia based laws, because they don't have an effective police force nor is the intelligence utlised for this area. 

Edited by YAli

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1 hour ago, erik said:

I believe that too, however for westernised people these laws are quite hard to swallow just the thought of someone getting their hand chopped off scares many of us including me

its strange because its very good punishment in Shariah to avoid any further mistakes in life its only better for Your this life and NeXT life so its strange how some western countries lets rapist run away or Call him mad and dont punish them they even dont punish a person who murder

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28 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

To me it depends on the high level of policing. If you have a capable police force and strong intelligence, then you will have a lower crime rate.

 

14 minutes ago, YAli said:

However as @Sumerian said a lot depends on how you implement it; high level of policing who are capable, strong intelligence etc. And i would say Saudi has both of these. Countries like Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen and many more have much higher crime rates even though they have Sharia based laws, because they don't have an effective police force nor is the intelligence utlised for this area. 

Then could we say that the implementation of capital punishment which is part of sharia law doesn't necessarily decrease the number of crime as people would think that the harshness of the punishment may make people avoid doing the crime, instead the level of crime rate depends on the level of capability of the police force and intelligence? 

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19 minutes ago, erik said:

 

Then could we say that the implementation of capital punishment which is part of sharia law doesn't necessarily decrease the number of crime as people would think that the harshness of the punishment may make people avoid doing the crime, instead the level of crime rate depends on the level of capability of the police force and intelligence

I think both are the one and the same, or linked. 

The implementation of the capital punishment needs capable (not corrupt, trustworthy, loyal etc.) police force who are equipped to carry out the tasks (intelligence, equipment/technology, manpower etc.). 

Because the UK and US have a very capable and intelligent police force, but what they apply is a different law. So the key again is capital punishment/sharia law. 

However i would also add to this something else, and that is religious belief, or the firm foundation in peoples hearts. I think another ingredient to low level crime in Saudi is the general population have an internal belief that restricts them or makes them think twice of committing crimes. I do not believe it matters if you are shia or sunni for this, as long as a person or citizen of that nation is what we would call a 'pious' person, or someone who has some level of taqwa and God consciousness, this is also a major component. In my personal experience i think this God consciousness is higher in Saudi than in Pakistan, and i am only saying this from some experience of time spent in both. If anyone wants to comment on this i'd be happy to hear their thoughts or experiences.   

Edited by YAli
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Well people claim rape rates are lower because rapists are executed but then it may be that women feel they can't be open about being a victim of rape because of cultural reasons etc. So you can't purely say it's because of deterrence provided by harsh punishment. In fact in places like Norway, their prisoners very rarely go to prison again, and they have some of the world's best prisons. In the US, chances of reimprisonment are higher and the prisons are just regular prisons.

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1 hour ago, Sumerian said:

The laws on Hudud between Sunnis and Shi'a are not very different. Other than the incorrect application of the Shari'ah by the Saudi officials where they target innocents like poltical opponents or Shi'a Muslims, but on paper and how they are overwhelmingly applied to general citzens, their laws are basically Hanbali Laws.

Dear brother,apart from what you have referred to, I was actually trying to indicate how they are turning our holy cities into some sort of las vegas, with a 'halal sex shop' opening in Makkah-tul-mukarramah. I doubt whether such fahisha would be allowed in a true Islamic state.

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1 minute ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Dear brother,apart from what you have referred to, I was actually trying to indicate how they are turning our holy cities into some sort of las vegas, with a 'halal sex shop' opening in Makkah-tul-mukarramah. I doubt whether such fahisha would be allowed in a true Islamic state.

I understand their plans to liberalise their laws, but where is this "halal shop" in Mecca? Do you have a link?

I was mainly talking about and focusing on the Hudud specifically. Some people might object to them.

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13 minutes ago, Mohamed1993 said:

Well people claim rape rates are lower because rapists are executed but then it may be that women feel they can't be open about being a victim of rape because of cultural reasons etc. So you can't purely say it's because of deterrence provided by harsh punishment. In fact in places like Norway, their prisoners very rarely go to prison again, and they have some of the world's best prisons. In the US, chances of reimprisonment are higher and the prisons are just regular prisons.

It depends also on the prison culture in the country. If Iraq implemented the Norweigan prison, even though the prisons are filled with combat ready and trained ISIS fighters, it will be a disaster.

But yes, in Europe it obviously works.

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2 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

I understand their plans to liberalise their laws, but where is this "halal shop" in Mecca? Do you have a link?

I was mainly talking about and focusing on the Hudud specifically. Some people might object to them.

Here,brother-

https://googleweblight.com/i?u=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/sharia-compliant-sex-shop-to-open-in-mecca-selling-halal-sex-toys-for-muslims-10194187.html&hl=en-IN

You are correct that some may object to the hudud, but I dont share their concern.

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2 minutes ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

The name really sounds disgusting and disturbing. 

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4 hours ago, erik said:

Today we had a discussion in class with my religion teacher about capital punishment. She's completely against capital punishment as she says we don't gain anything at the end by killing another human, but I told her that capital punishment also acted as a deterrant meaning that crime rates would decrease. I'm just wondering if this is actually true in countries under sharia law like Iran and Saudi Arabia or even in countries such as China. Do these countries that apply capital punishment have much lower crime rates than other countries?

Check out the list of countries with the death penalty and then check out the list of countries without.  In which group of countries would you feel safest?

Scandinavia has the most humane prisons in the world with very low recidivism.  Prisoners are treated justly and fairly (education, therapy, job training) and have less stigma and condemnation when released. The citizens trust the system and those released from the system.There is a lot to be gained in helping someone who is lost to be given opportunity and hope.  

Biggest indicator of crime rate is despair.  There is a direct correlation between poor education, poverty and crime.

Edited by forte

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39 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

It depends also on the prison culture in the country. If Iraq implemented the Norweigan prison, even though the prisons are filled with combat ready and trained ISIS fighters, it will be a disaster.

But yes, in Europe it obviously works.

War combatants need more intense intervention.  Doesn't matter if they are ISIS or Americans in Iraq.  Same issues result.

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1 hour ago, Sumerian said:

The name really sounds disgusting and disturbing. 

Sorry bro, I stand corrected. That's fake news.

http://observers.france24.com/en/20150430-halal-sex-shop-mecca-fake
 

But it still doesn't absolve them of their botched and selective application of the Sharia and the witch hunt of religious minorities.

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