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In the Name of God بسم الله

Iran, Turkey drying up Tigris river?

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Recently Iraq has accused both Iran and Turkey of applying policies which are drying up the Tigris river, and causing drought.

Now I don't want to hear anyone say "this topic will divide the ummah" or such nonsense, these issues are public and are supposed to be discussed because they endanger lives. This is not me saying it, this is Iraq's Water Minister who said publicly that these two countries are drying Iraq up.

So why are Iran and Turkey employing these policies? And what can Iraq do about it?

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10 minutes ago, repenter said:

I'm not an expert in geography, but i don't see how Iran could possibly "dry up a river" it doesn't even have access too. Which policies are these and why?

The Sirwan River in Iran connects to the Tigres River through the Diyala River.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diyala_River

There is already an Iraqi water activist group targeting this issue;

http://www.savethetigris.org/tag/sirwan-river/

This is the statement of the Iraqi Water Ministry to the activist group;

Touching upon the issue of Iranian dam-construction, the minister explained that currently 10 dams are being built in Iran, while more have already been completed despite its devastating environmental impact on the tributaries of the Tigris River. Daryan Dam however remains the biggest threat considering its diversion of water from the Sirwan River (Diyala River) through through underground tunnels to feed agricultural areas in Iran. Therefore, these tunnels would prevent the Sirwan River from flowing into Iraqi territory and would desiccate Diyala River completely.

Edited by Sumerian
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Generally speaking rivers cross countries and are used for agriculture and powerplants. Usually friendly countries calculate the flow and build dams to control the flow to benefit both/more countries that the rivers flow through. If the current government of Iran is doing such a thing without listening to the Iraqi complaint then Iraq should definately raise the issue internationally and put pressure on both IRGC who own a lot of the sub companies making dams, marjaiyah and also the current(and in my opinion) useless government. 

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19 minutes ago, repenter said:

Generally speaking rivers cross countries and are used for agriculture and powerplants. Usually friendly countries calculate the flow and build dams to control the flow to benefit both/more countries that the rivers flow through. If the current government of Iran is doing such a thing without listening to the Iraqi complaint then Iraq should definately raise the issue internationally and put pressure on both IRGC who own a lot of the sub companies making dams, marjaiyah and also the current(and in my opinion) useless government. 

Thank you very much. I hope Iraq raises the issue both to Iran's government (as they have), to international instititutions recongised and ratified by both countries, and to powerful religious and social figures like Sayyed Khamenei, Sayyed Sistani, IRGC (and those close to them in Iraq). 

I hope we can reach a deal. Not only is it in the interest of Iraq, it is in the interest of Iran, as Turkey has taken actions which will limit supplies of water to both Iran and Iraq. Therefore if both countries can agree here, they can then pressure the Turks together. But we can't work together on water if we have water issues going on atm.

Edited by Sumerian
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1 minute ago, Sumerian said:

It is connected to the Sirwan River in Iran.

Sirwan River originates in Iran and continues into Iraq as Diyala. I would say that Iran is sending you its water. Alhamdulillah.

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Iran consul in Suleimaniyah says there is no closure of the flow of Zab river from Iran to Iraq: http://www.irna.ir/ar/News/82934701

Disappointing to see so many Iraqis on social media actually attacking Iran. Iran, just like every country on this planet, is not flawless and deserves healthy criticism. But seeing people actually cursing Iran was extremely disheartening.

To think the country that was first to aid Iraq in its fight against Da'esh is getting so much hate by the very same people it helped.

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5 minutes ago, Hameedeh said:

Sirwan River originates in Iran and continues into Iraq as Diyala. I would say that Iran is sending you its water. Alhamdulillah.

And they are sending less of it now, because they are building dams.

4 minutes ago, Jaabir said:

Iran consul in Suleimaniyah says there is no closure of the flow of Zab river from Iran to Iraq: http://www.irna.ir/ar/News/82934701

Disappointing to see so many Iraqis on social media actually attacking Iran. Iran, just like every country on this planet, is not flawless and deserves healthy criticism. But seeing people actually cursing Iran was extremely disheartening.

To think the country that was first to aid Iraq in its fight against Da'esh is getting so much hate by the very same people it helped.

Yes, the Iranian consulate is defending Iran. How surprising. 

This issue has caused an outrage in Iraq and Iraqi social media was in a storm, and rightly so. Our river is drying up due to this policy, and this will lead to drought.

And you can believe the "consulate", I will take the opinion of our Ministry, and other experts who have confirmed this, thanks.

Edited by Sumerian
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Whether anyone wants to believe Iran is stopping the flow of the river after Iran denied it, is up to the them.

If Iran is indeed the cause of the Tigris river drying up, they should be condemned. At the end of the day, I have a problem believing that a country that has spent so much out of goodwill for another country, only to harm the country like this. Turkey, on the other hand, treats Iraq like dirt and ignores them on many issues, is who I would blame.

There's also a possibility that Iraq protested the apparent closure by Iran, and Iran is deciding what to do. Point being: many probably only read one article on Rudaw and start attacking Iran like there's no tomorrow. The details are not clear yet, we've got to wait to see how this issue is resolved and who is to blame.

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26 minutes ago, Jaabir said:

Whether anyone wants to believe Iran is stopping the flow of the river after Iran denied it, is up to the them.

If Iran is indeed the cause of the Tigris river drying up, they should be condemned. At the end of the day, I have a problem believing that a country that has spent so much out of goodwill for another country, only to harm the country like this. Turkey, on the other hand, treats Iraq like dirt and ignores them on many issues, is who I would blame.

There's also a possibility that Iraq protested the apparent closure by Iran, and Iran is deciding what to do. Point being: many probably only read one article on Rudaw and start attacking Iran like there's no tomorrow. The details are not clear yet, we've got to wait to see how this issue is resolved and who is to blame.

You're not judging by the facts, you're judging by your feelings.

Just because someone showed goodwill to you that doesn't mean they can't hurt you, and it may be they don't intend to hurt you but their incompetence or wrong-headed policies will hurt you.

I don't care about Rudaw, I haven't even read their opinions on this issue, because their opinions mean nothing at the end of the day. But they didn't make this crisis up, it is confirmed by the highest levels of Iraq's government and those who are in charge of water policy.

Edited by Sumerian
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12 hours ago, Sumerian said:

Recently Iraq has accused both Iran and Turkey of applying policies which are drying up the Tigris river, and causing drought.

Now I don't want to hear anyone say "this topic will divide the ummah" or such nonsense, these issues are public and are supposed to be discussed because they endanger lives. This is not me saying it, this is Iraq's Water Minister who said publicly that these two countries are drying Iraq up.

So why are Iran and Turkey employing these policies? And what can Iraq do about it?

First Saddam attacks Iran...then ISIS...and now Sumerian nationalism...

jokes aside, since water is becoming more valuable than oil or it is the new oil, its interesting to see how Kurds could become the future Saudi Arabia and how Turkey, Iraq, and Iran are all standing against it.
Turkey has, by the virtue of its location, the key to the development of both Syria and Iraq.

Screen_Shot_2018-03-13_at_9.11.27_AM.jpg

Edited by Wahdat
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2 hours ago, Sumerian said:

And they are sending less of it now, because they are building dams.

Turkey is building dams on both the Tigris River and Euphrates River and you want to talk about Iran. Thanks, Brother. Another topic showing how bad Iran is. :( 

Edited by Hameedeh
No, I don't hate Iran. My children are half-Iranian.
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23 minutes ago, Hameedeh said:

Turkey is building dams on both the Tigris River and Euphrates River and you want to talk about Iran. Thanks, Brother. Another topic showing how bad Iran is. :( 

My title is blaming both Turkey and Iran. I will say Turkey's policy has done more damage to Iraq, but the Iraqi people do expect that from Erdogan, he is an open danger to Iraq.

What they didn't expect is this policy from Iran, at least the Southerners didn't, as they enjoy good relations with Iran. Both in trade, religion, politics and culture.

23 minutes ago, Wahdat said:

First Saddam attacks Iran...then ISIS...and now Sumerian nationalism...

jokes aside, since water is becoming more valuable than oil or it is the new oil, its interesting to see how Kurds could become the future Saudi Arabia and how Turkey, Iraq, and Iran are all standing against it.
Turkey has, by the virtue of its location, the key to the development of both Syria and Iraq.

Screen_Shot_2018-03-13_at_9.11.27_AM.jpg

Kurds are part of Iraq, we don't stand against them. Barzani Kurds are unfortunately Turkish sympathisers, and sadly it is their own trust in Erdogan which has gotten them to this stage, where he blackmails them with water.

They have a choice in standing with Iraq as Iraqis or they will suffer Erdogan's policies.

Edited by Sumerian
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6 hours ago, Sumerian said:

Kurds are part of Iraq, we don't stand against them. Barzani Kurds are unfortunately Turkish sympathisers, and sadly it is their own trust in Erdogan which has gotten them to this stage, where he blackmails them with water.

They have a choice in standing with Iraq as Iraqis or they will suffer Erdogan's policies.

You with your little funny nationalism is akin to Saddam and his little toy army....you both are/were robbed of common sense and reality....

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15 minutes ago, Wahdat said:

You with your little funny nationalism is akin to Saddam and his little toy army....you both are/were robbed of common sense and reality....

Saddam believed in Arab nationalism which is a joke. I would argue that people here care more about "Arab issues" than me despite not being Arabs, as they care about the fate of Hamas and IJ in Gaza which I could care less about.

The fate of the Shi'a worldwide and Iraq as my homeland matter to me much more than Hamas ever will.

Edited by Sumerian
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10 hours ago, Jaabir said:

Iran consul in Suleimaniyah says there is no closure of the flow of Zab river from Iran to Iraq: http://www.irna.ir/ar/News/82934701

Disappointing to see so many Iraqis on social media actually attacking Iran. Iran, just like every country on this planet, is not flawless and deserves healthy criticism. But seeing people actually cursing Iran was extremely disheartening.

To think the country that was first to aid Iraq in its fight against Da'esh is getting so much hate by the very same people it helped.

If its bad then it is Irans fault.

If its good then it is forgotten.

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On 6/5/2018 at 8:37 AM, Sumerian said:

Saddam believed in Arab nationalism which is a joke. I would argue that people here care more about "Arab issues" than me despite not being Arabs, as they care about the fate of Hamas and IJ in Gaza which I could care less about.

The fate of the Shi'a worldwide and Iraq as my homeland matter to me much more than Hamas ever will.

Saddam was wrong in believing in Arab nationalism. You are wrong in believing (even if you dont know it) in Iraqi nationalism....they are both one and the same just like good terrorists and bad terrorists. Believing in nationalism makes you feel entitled- case in point- you expecting Turkey to not develop its economy and instead give its water for free to Iraq, while Iraq sells its oil to Turkey at market price....see the double std? This is why states are stupid and contaminate their people with stupidity. A fairer and more logical set up would be for Turkey to give its water to develop Iraq, and Iraq in return give its oil to develop Turkey...both free. no?

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17 minutes ago, Wahdat said:

Saddam was wrong in believing in Arab nationalism. You are wrong in believing (even if you dont know it) in Iraqi nationalism....they are both one and the same just like good terrorists and bad terrorists. Believing in nationalism makes you feel entitled- case in point- you expecting Turkey to not develop its economy and instead give its water for free to Iraq, while Iraq sells its oil to Turkey at market price....see the double std? This is why states are stupid and contaminate their people with stupidity. A fairer and more logical set up would be for Turkey to give its water to develop Iraq, and Iraq in return give its oil to develop Turkey...both free. no?

I think they already negotiated the deal with Turkey.

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On 6/5/2018 at 6:08 PM, IbnSina said:

If its bad then it is Irans fault.

If its good then it is forgotten

It has more consequences for Iran because drying up will lead to more air pollution in south of Iran ,only turkey benefits from it which it was warnew by iranian experts to government by they neglected it.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe
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I did not google it, but the replies are confusing... SO, does Iran have any power to "dry up Tigris" or it is just misinformation from Sumerian? And Tigris is not even going through Iran?

Sumerian: in today's world I don't think it is a bad thing to be a 'nationalist' even though I don't like nationalists, because most of them are ignorant and haters/racist.

BUT, while you are practicing your nationalism, make sure to not spread lies about others, or spread fake news! You seem to be trying your best nowadays to do so... The Saudi paid Takfiris rounded up thousands of Shia-Iraqi military students and 'by the rivers' they slaughtered them like they were slaughtering sheep, but now all a sudden you forgot all that, and 15 yrs of Shia market bombings and massacres of Shia civilians in the hands of pro-Gulf state Takfiris and you are so pumped up to follow their policies of anti-Iran propaganda on whatever topic you could... have you noticed that you are the only one on this forum or maybe one more who agrees with you? Stop listening to all these youtube and political debates on Iraqi TVs run from Gulf states.

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1 hour ago, Noah- said:

Iran have any power to "dry up Tigris" or it is just misinformation from Sumerian? And Tigris is not even going through Iran?

Sumerian: in today's world I don't think it is a bad thing to be a 'nationalist' even though I don't like nationalists, because most of them are ignorant and haters/racist.

BUT, while you are practicing your nationalism, make sure to not spread lies about others, or spread fake news! You seem to be trying your best nowadays to do so... The Saudi paid Takfiris rounded up thousands of Shia-Iraqi military students and 'by the rivers' they slaughtered them like they were slaughtering sheep, but now all a sudden you forgot all that, and 15 yrs of Shia market bombings and massacres of Shia civilians in the hands of pro-Gulf state Takfiris and you are so pumped up to follow their policies of anti-Iran propaganda on whatever topic you could... have you noticed that you are the only one on this forum or maybe one more who agrees with you? Stop listening to all these youtube and political debates on Iraqi TVs run from Gulf states.

Iran control a small portion Of it toward Turkey most of water of Tigris comes from Kurdish province which currently controls by Turkey but as usual everybody blames Iran for everything & Turkey is their hero.

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1 hour ago, Noah- said:

I did not google it, but the replies are confusing... SO, does Iran have any power to "dry up Tigris" or it is just misinformation from Sumerian? And Tigris is not even going through Iran?

Sumerian: in today's world I don't think it is a bad thing to be a 'nationalist' even though I don't like nationalists, because most of them are ignorant and haters/racist.

BUT, while you are practicing your nationalism, make sure to not spread lies about others, or spread fake news! You seem to be trying your best nowadays to do so... The Saudi paid Takfiris rounded up thousands of Shia-Iraqi military students and 'by the rivers' they slaughtered them like they were slaughtering sheep, but now all a sudden you forgot all that, and 15 yrs of Shia market bombings and massacres of Shia civilians in the hands of pro-Gulf state Takfiris and you are so pumped up to follow their policies of anti-Iran propaganda on whatever topic you could... have you noticed that you are the only one on this forum or maybe one more who agrees with you? Stop listening to all these youtube and political debates on Iraqi TVs run from Gulf states.

 

Which Gulf state outlet did I use to get this news and info? I don't watch TV firstly. Secondly, this is what the government of Iraq said, not Gulf TV or AlJazeera or whatever said.

Why every time I question Iranian policy, people bring up Saudi Arabia? May Allah curse the House of Saud a million times. Just because you don't support Iranian policy, does not mean you are following Saudi propaganda or whatever. 

People act like countries can either be with Saudi Arabia or with Iran. No, they can be by themselves as well. I want Iraq to be its own regional power again, and not follow other regional powers. You understand?

I'm not a nationalist, I'm a patriot.

Edited by Sumerian
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36 minutes ago, Laayla said:

^^^

Assalam Alikum brother @Sumerian

I just want to ask you some questions.

Do you hate or dislike Iran or its people?

Why?

Does your parents or relatives bad mouth Iranians?  Why?

Thank you for your time.

M3 Salamah, Fe Amin Allah 

No I don't dislike Iran or its people, I have disagreements with some people here who want my country to become a follower of Iran or to become part of an axis with Iran.

I am of the belief that Iraq is better without any alliance, and that Iraq should maintain a policy of non-intervention and isolation in the Middle East.

Some people here don't like that, they want Iraq to join the "resistance axis" with Syria and Iran, and we Iraqis don't want that. Our choice, it's our country. We just want to be friends and partners on mutual goals, but we don't want to be part of an axis. It's not hard to understand.

And no, my parents are more supportive of Iran's policies than me. At least my father is, my mother isn't into politics that much. So me and my Dad disagree, a lot.

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Tigris–Euphrates river system

From their sources and upper courses in the mountains of eastern Anatolia, the rivers descend through valleys and gorges to the uplands of Syria and northern Iraq and then to the alluvial plain of central Iraq. The rivers flow in a south-easterly direction through the central plain and combine at Al-Qurnah to form the Arvand Shatt al-Arab and discharge into the Persian Gulf.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigris%E2%80%93Euphrates_river_system

 

2. Hydrology of the Tigris and Euphrates Basins

image.png.53b67786e6152b254a0edfa1dee56fcc.png

The catchments area of Tigris and Euphrates Rivers are shared by five countries: Iraq, Turkey, Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia, Figure 1 and Table 1. Details of these basins can be found in [3] [32] [33] .

Several ancient civilizations in the Mesopotamia were supported by basin irrigation from the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers since 6000 B.C. during Sumerian time. The ancient irrigation system was so efficient where it

https://www.scirp.org/Journal/PaperInformation.aspx?PaperID=65038

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36 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Some people here don't like that, they want Iraq to join the "resistance axis" with Syria and Iran, and we Iraqis don't want that. Our choice, it's our country. We just want to be friends and partners on mutual goals, but we don't want to be part of an axis. It's not hard to understand.

In my opinion a strong & independent Iraq is very good but it can't  be done in a short time because of many complexities in Iraq even for Iran that had better hegemony than Iraq after revolution it takes hard years but look at Afghanistan ,they claimed this idea after soviet invasion & falling of Taliban but yet they suffer from many issues although they have support of America behind them ,it is harder for Iraq because it has more anti American attitude than Afghanistan .

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4 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

In my opinion a strong & independent Iraq is very good but it can't  be done in a short time because of many complexities in Iraq even for Iran that had better hegemony than Iraq after revolution it takes hard years but look at Afghanistan ,they claimed this idea after soviet invasion & falling of Taliban but yet they suffer from many issues although they have support of America behind them ,it is harder for Iraq because it has more anti American attitude than Afghanistan .

It's hard, but not impossible. Algeria is independent and neutral and they were under French occupation for decades.

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22 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

It's hard, but not impossible. Algeria is independent and neutral and they were under French occupation for decades.

yeah ,but it was a Sunni country with support of rest of Sunni countries an also pan Arabism , Iraq may benefits from pan Arabism but being Shias in majority make it very hard for them.

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Just now, Ashvazdanghe said:

yeah ,but it was a Sunni country with support of rest of Sunni countries an also pan Arabism , Iraq may benefits from pan Arabism but being Shias in majority make it very hard for them.

Yes, it is incredibly hard. Which is why the first step is to eliminate the hatred between Sunnis, Shi'as and Kurds in Iraq.

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