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Guest kamen

Is it Haram to do Mut'a with westerners?

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Guest kamen

Do you think it's Haram to have sex with westerners, even if the Mut'a is valid, since in a way we're contributing to the decadence of their society? Their culture is slowly degrading into a primitive one where sex isn't sacred, and I get the feeling like engaging with them in that way isn't helping at all, and in the big picture, makes things worse and therefore makes us somewhat liable. 

What do you think?

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Its permissible provided the woman you are doing mut'a with is either a jew or christian. But I wouldn't advise people do it and I wouldn't personally do it. I'm not really sure sex is sacred in Islam to be completely honest, I feel like it is something that probably should be. But my feelings don't determine what the truth is. 

@Dreamcatcher Mut'a is pretty clearly meant for sex mainly (although not exclusively) if you read the ahadith from the imams (as) on it, there is really no ambiguity on it. A "one night stand" muta marriage is completely permissible in the eyes of the shariah. 

Edited by Shi3i_jadeed

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23 hours ago, Dreamcatcher said:

If someone is using Mut'a as a tool to legitimise their one night stand(s) then God help them. Mut'a was and is not meant for this. On the other hand, if done right, it would not degrade the culture.

Thats what people are doing. Mutah = NSA friends with benefit ;) lol. 

I am not against mutah it just pisses me off how people use it. It same like halala marriages in sunnis. 

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25 minutes ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Thats what people are doing. Mutah = NSA friends with benefit ;) lol. 

I am not against mutah it just pisses me off how people use it. It same like halala marriages in sunnis. 

How bout doing mutah just to get to know the girl alot more

not for sex

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15 minutes ago, Natsu said:

Indeed but its better to know the girl’s habit and to see if she practice islam and stuff

Well, you could get to know her without Mutah. Islam does allow you to talk before marriage, you cannot talk nasty with her but you are allowed to talk to her to get to know her. 

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13 minutes ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Well, you could get to know her without Mutah. Islam does allow you to talk before marriage, you cannot talk nasty with her but you are allowed to talk to her to get to know her. 

Ye ik i personally wouldnt do mutah but im saying this for people who want to get much closer to the girl

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On 6/5/2018 at 11:32 AM, Shi3i_jadeed said:

Its permissible provided the woman you are doing mut'a with is either a jew or christian. But I wouldn't advise people do it and I wouldn't personally do it. I'm not really sure sex is sacred in Islam to be completely honest, I feel like it is something that probably should be. But my feelings don't determine what the truth is. 

@Dreamcatcher Mut'a is pretty clearly meant for sex mainly (although not exclusively) if you read the ahadith from the imams (as) on it, there is really no ambiguity on it. A "one night stand" muta marriage is completely permissible in the eyes of the shariah. 

What does it say in Shariah about contracting Mut'a with someone who is surely not going to observe the Iddah afterwards? I would not be surprised if the response received is, "it's not the man's problem".

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19 hours ago, Natsu said:

Ye ik i personally wouldnt do mutah but im saying this for people who want to get much closer to the girl

There is no closer thingy it's just all lust my brother. 

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Guest Kamen

I don't think I've expressed myself correctly. I'm not saying this to argue or ignore your answers, but merely to draw the discussion to the question that I initially posed which I fear wasn't clear enough. To be as clear as possible: I'm not asking if it's permissible, if we should do it, why, the appropriate conditions to do it, or when. My question is, is it a good idea to do it with westerners. I know we can, but should we. I apologize if I come off as rude in my tone, or if it seems like I've disregarded your answers. That is not my intention.

To you, a God fearing man, Mut'a is a way to have sex and not compromise your religion. But to a westerner, it's only words they have to say so they can have sex with this person; They don't believe in the ceremony so from their perspective, they're just having premarital sex (which concerns me). If they don't do it with you, they'll just find someone else. What I really want to emphasize is their mindset vs ours, and that having sex with them (Halal or not) enables them. Yes I know that it is permissible on the surface, but looking at the big picture, is it really okay to do it in this specific society? I know Islam isn't black and white, just because something is Halal/Haram doesn't mean there aren't extreme situations where it's acceptable to do something that normally isn't (eating pork for survival). And I feel like this is one of those situations...

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3 hours ago, Guest Kamen said:

I don't think I've expressed myself correctly. I'm not saying this to argue or ignore your answers, but merely to draw the discussion to the question that I initially posed which I fear wasn't clear enough. To be as clear as possible: I'm not asking if it's permissible, if we should do it, why, the appropriate conditions to do it, or when. My question is, is it a good idea to do it with westerners. I know we can, but should we. I apologize if I come off as rude in my tone, or if it seems like I've disregarded your answers. That is not my intention.

To you, a God fearing man, Mut'a is a way to have sex and not compromise your religion. But to a westerner, it's only words they have to say so they can have sex with this person; They don't believe in the ceremony so from their perspective, they're just having premarital sex (which concerns me). If they don't do it with you, they'll just find someone else. What I really want to emphasize is their mindset vs ours, and that having sex with them (Halal or not) enables them. Yes I know that it is permissible on the surface, but looking at the big picture, is it really okay to do it in this specific society? I know Islam isn't black and white, just because something is Halal/Haram doesn't mean there aren't extreme situations where it's acceptable to do something that normally isn't (eating pork for survival). And I feel like this is one of those situations...

I think a lot of this comes down to personal judgement and individual situations. There is no easy yes or no answer to give. Personally I think its a bad idea to get into any type of marriage with a kafira especially in a western country. Permanent marriage is even worse because the kids usually end up in a weird situation with religion, either mixing between them (which is kufr obviously) or just having no religion. 

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On 6/12/2018 at 6:19 PM, Guest Kamen said:

know we can, but should we. I apologize if I come off as rude in my tone, or if it seems like I've disregarded your answers. That is not my intention.

To you, a God fearing man, Mut'a is a way to have sex and not compromise your religion. But to a westerner, it's only words they have to say so they can have sex with this person; They don't believe in the ceremony so from their perspective, they're just having premarital sex (which concerns me). If they don't do it with you, they'll just find someone else.

this is Obligatory for you ,as you say she just say some words but you must do this .

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Just because someone is ‘western’ doesn’t mean they are bad people. A lot of Asians have moved to the western world to better their lives. So discriminating a whole side of the world is ridiculous. 

So my answer is no it’s not a bad thing to do mutah with western people. You should only really use it if you are serious with the person and want to get to know them and visa Versa. It gives Muslims a chance to explain in detail what Islam is about and how we live our lives. It’s an opportunity to bring more people to Islam or at least spread the word. This is what we are ment to be doing. We should want more people to accept Islam either socially/ society or personally. 

However if someone wants to use it as a one night stand technique then they do not understand the religion in its entirety. You shouldn’t do mutah or even consider doing it with someone who doesn’t take it seriously. It’s to see if you are compatible for marriage not just for sex. 

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On 6/5/2018 at 2:32 AM, Shi3i_jadeed said:

Its permissible provided the woman you are doing mut'a with is either a jew or christian. But I wouldn't advise people do it and I wouldn't personally do it. I'm not really sure sex is sacred in Islam to be completely honest, I feel like it is something that probably should be. But my feelings don't determine what the truth is. 

@Dreamcatcher Mut'a is pretty clearly meant for sex mainly (although not exclusively) if you read the ahadith from the imams (as) on it, there is really no ambiguity on it. A "one night stand" muta marriage is completely permissible in the eyes of the shariah. 

Are you serious? I know someone who is engaged in mutaa very often with non Muslims. When I told him that it’s haram to use it as one night stand, he got furious lol. Just imagine the Christian girl he is using for one night stand, do you honestly think she is going to wait for 4 months idddah? As soon as the man would leave her, she will go sleep with another man. Men believe and hear what they want to hear, if you talk against mutaa, they will make thousand excuses and bring zillion references to prove how it is legal and permissible. May Allah guide us all. 

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1 hour ago, Rayhana80 said:

Are you serious? I know someone who is engaged in mutaa very often with non Muslims. When I told him that it’s haram to use it as one night stand, he got furious lol. Just imagine the Christian girl he is using for one night stand, do you honestly think she is going to wait for 4 months idddah? As soon as the man would leave her, she will go sleep with another man. Men believe and hear what they want to hear, if you talk against mutaa, they will make thousand excuses and bring zillion references to prove how it is legal and permissible. May Allah guide us all. 

Like I said my feelings don't determine what the truth is likewise your feelings also don't determine it. What determines it here is the thaqalayn. Yes that is halal for him to do. The iddah for the woman in mutah would be 45 days or a single menstrual cycle. Whether she observes iddah or not isn't really the man's responsibility as she is no longer his wife, its her responsibility.  Mutah is part of Islam and speaking against it would be opposing ahlul bayt (as). Rejecting mutah isn't really going to solve anything because in Islam its still permissible for a man to have sex with his female slaves. 

[ 26357 ] 2 ـ وعن محمد بن إسماعيل ، عن الفضل بن شاذان ، عن صفوان بن يحيى ، عن ابن مسكان ، عن عبدالله بن سليمان قال : سمعت أبا جعفر ( عليه السلام ) يقول : كان علي ( عليه السلام ) يقول : لولا ما س

بقني به بني الخطاب ما زنى إلا شقي .

2 – And from Muhammad b. Isma`il from al-Fadl b. Shadhan from Safwan b. Yahya from Ibn Muskan from `Abdullah b. Sulayman. He said: I heard Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام saying: `Ali عليه السلام would say: Were it not for what the son of Khattab preceded me with, none but a wretch would have fornicated.

[ 26364 ] 9 ـ محمد بن علي بن الحسين بإسناده عن عبدالله بن سنان ، عن أبي عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) قال : إن الله تبارك وتعالى حرم على شيعتنا المسكر من كل شراب وعوضهم من ذلك المتعة .

9 – Muhammad b. `Ali b. al-Husayn by his isnad from `Abdullah b. Sinan from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. He said: Allah تبارك وتعالى forbade the intoxicant of every drink to our Shi`a, and recompensed them from that with mut`a.

10 hours ago, aleena1904 said:

However if someone wants to use it as a one night stand technique then they do not understand the religion in its entirety. You shouldn’t do mutah or even consider doing it with someone who doesn’t take it seriously. It’s to see if you are compatible for marriage not just for sex. 

I'm not sure how it would mean they don't understand the religion in its entirety when they are doing a mustahab act... Its mainly for sex but it could be used to see if you are compatible for marriage. 

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20 hours ago, Shi3i_jadeed said:

Like I said my feelings don't determine what the truth is likewise your feelings also don't determine it. What determines it here is the thaqalayn. Yes that is halal for him to do. The iddah for the woman in mutah would be 45 days or a single menstrual cycle. Whether she observes iddah or not isn't really the man's responsibility as she is no longer his wife, its her responsibility.  Mutah is part of Islam and speaking against it would be opposing ahlul bayt (as). Rejecting mutah isn't really going to solve anything because in Islam its still permissible for a man to have sex with his female slaves. 

[ 26357 ] 2 ـ وعن محمد بن إسماعيل ، عن الفضل بن شاذان ، عن صفوان بن يحيى ، عن ابن مسكان ، عن عبدالله بن سليمان قال : سمعت أبا جعفر ( عليه السلام ) يقول : كان علي ( عليه السلام ) يقول : لولا ما س

بقني به بني الخطاب ما زنى إلا شقي .

2 – And from Muhammad b. Isma`il from al-Fadl b. Shadhan from Safwan b. Yahya from Ibn Muskan from `Abdullah b. Sulayman. He said: I heard Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام saying: `Ali عليه السلام would say: Were it not for what the son of Khattab preceded me with, none but a wretch would have fornicated.

[ 26364 ] 9 ـ محمد بن علي بن الحسين بإسناده عن عبدالله بن سنان ، عن أبي عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) قال : إن الله تبارك وتعالى حرم على شيعتنا المسكر من كل شراب وعوضهم من ذلك المتعة .

9 – Muhammad b. `Ali b. al-Husayn by his isnad from `Abdullah b. Sinan from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. He said: Allah تبارك وتعالى forbade the intoxicant of every drink to our Shi`a, and recompensed them from that with mut`a.

I'm not sure how it would mean they don't understand the religion in its entirety when they are doing a mustahab act... Its mainly for sex but it could be used to see if you are compatible for marriage. 

So you think it’s okay to have mutaa with a non Muslim as long as she is satisfying his needs? Moreover, it’s not his responsibility whether or not she is going to wait for her menstrual cycle? She being a NON-MUSLIM, what made you believe that she would she care about waiting until her cycle is over? What if she sleeps with another couple of men and found out that she is pregnant, how will he know whose child it is then? Unfortunately our men are abusing it. 

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On 6/4/2018 at 1:43 PM, Dreamcatcher said:

If someone is using Mut'a as a tool to legitimise their one night stand(s) then God help them. Mut'a was and is not meant for this. On the other hand, if done right, it would not degrade the culture.

There is no time limit to mut'a.  Mut'a literally means pleasure. One night stands are mut'a-able!

 

25 minutes ago, Rayhana80 said:

So you think it’s okay to have mutaa with a non Muslim as long as she is satisfying his needs? Moreover, it’s not his responsibility whether or not she is going to wait for her menstrual cycle? She being a NON-MUSLIM, what made you believe that (1) she would she care about waiting until her cycle is over? What if she sleeps with another couple of men and found out that she is pregnant, (2) how will he know whose child it is then? Unfortunately our men are abusing it. 

(1)  You can advise and highly recommend, but you cannot control what another person does whether Muslim or non Muslim. It is ultimately up to her.

(2)  Nowadays, it is easy to determine paternity of a child.  

Edited by forte

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On 6/3/2018 at 4:10 PM, Guest kamen said:

Do you think it's Haram to have sex with westerners, even if the Mut'a is valid, since in a way we're contributing to the decadence of their society? Their culture is slowly degrading into a primitive one where sex isn't sacred, and I get the feeling like engaging with them in that way isn't helping at all, and in the big picture, makes things worse and therefore makes us somewhat liable. 

What do you think?

Since Muta' is marriage, the advice concerning marriage also applies to Muta'. The most well known, well documented advice given by Prophet and Imams of Ahl Al Bayt(a.s) regarding this subject is to marry those who are trusworthy and with good moral character. If you marry someone who is not trustworthy and doesn't have good moral character, regardless if she is Christian, Jew, or Muslima, and regardless of East and West, and regardless of Muta' or Zawaj Tul Nikah (fixed term or non fixed term marriage) there will most likely be bad consequences for this, either in this world, the next, or both. That doesn't mean it is not halal, and sometimes even halal things can cause someone problems, such as the overweight person who eats too much of halal food. THere is the halal and haram (which are the absolute limits), then there is the advice. We should know the advice as well as the Halal and Haram.

So when you say 'Westerner' and based on the other things you said, I am assuming you mean marrying a women of not so good moral character. Those can be found all over, in the East and West. We are advised not to marry them. If we took that advice, the Ummah would be better for it. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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