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DestinationUnknown

Want To Believe In Allah (swt), But I Can't

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Salam alaikom,

I apologize if I'm repeating what others told you, I did not have the time to read all of the replies.

Moreover, I'm a newly converted shia (was sunni) so I've never heard of the miracle of your first question, do you have a reference? Also, the first thing that came to mind was that Imam Ali (as) wouldn't miss the prayer because (I'm assuming him being the Imam and knowing his character and all) wouldn't wait until the last minute, so he would have the time to pray, also would he come close to missing the prayer? I don't know, I just find it hard to believe that Imam Ali was busy with something else so he was going to miss the prayer and instead of Allah being forgiving or teaching him a lesson or something he would move the sun. Anyways, can you get me proof? 

Your third question too was something new to me because I believe that even if you ask from your heart it doesn't guarantee it because maybe Allah's plan is not changeable according to our demands. I believe that we make duas and Allah does what he wants, (for me) it's also a test; if you ask for something and Allah doesn't give it to you will you still believe in him? What if it's something that will do you harm more than benefiting you? Personally, I don't trust that I know what's better for myself more than the one who created me. I understand that you're talking about deadly disease and cancer, but that's God's call right? I mean if no one dies of cancer or diseases, and if Syria is free, then when will the Imam Mahdi (as) come? Also, why should Allah be expected to clean people's messes? I never got that part, God didn't cause this war and he shouldn't watch our every move to stop us from doing harm, that wouldn't be free will, right? (I'm seriously asking)

For your second question, I can't follow your logic, that if Islam is the true religion then muslim prayers should be answered. Some muslim prayers are answered, and others aren't. Also, (personally, from the videos I watched) Islam isn't restricted to al sha'hadatain, like someone can truly believe in God and just didn't have the chance to know Islam, but his heart is pure and intention clean, will he be in hellfire and considered bad? I don't think God is that unfair. So, the fact that you're suggesting that our prayers should be answered more than non-muslims is very (I don't mean to insult you, but I find it) shallow, because true believe isn't about being muslim and fasting, it's about believing in God and doing what (one thinks) is worship. Just because muslim are having a hard time and it feels and looks as if Allah left us alone, doesn't mean that he did. I believe that it'll get very very bad before it gets better, don't forget that according to islam this worldly life is not the end, so if it's bad here and now that doesn't mean that it'll be like that forever; someone who dies because of war or cancer here can be very happy and at peace after they die.. we don't know.

By the way, I've been where you are, I threw away my whole system of believe and looked for Allah all over again with many questions (that's how I found shiasim). There's this guy on youtube that I like his way of teaching the quran and pulling lessons from it, he helped me a lot (he's sunni but doesn't bring up the differences much) his name is Nouman Ali Khan, all his videos are in english, I invite you to listen to his videos about duas and tafseer for quran verses. For shia topics, I listen to Ammar Nakshawani, I can feel that his heart is filled with hurt and I think that why he is very passionate when he speaks (lol) but so far I like his videos. If you are truly looking for answers, then don't give up until you find the answers that make you feel at ease, even if you meet people (like me) who don't answer your questions well, or at all. Not being able to answer a question doesn't mean that God doesn't exist, it just means that the person doesn't have enough information to answer. We don't live in times or big miracles, just because they don't happen doesn't mean that God died and can't preform them anymore. I'm not saying either that your only answer is to believe in him, just give the question its right and time, let the right person answer it whoever that is.

I hope I helped!

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On 6/5/2018 at 6:57 AM, BelleAmy said:

Salam alaikom,

I apologize if I'm repeating what others told you, I did not have the time to read all of the replies.

Moreover, I'm a newly converted shia (was sunni) so I've never heard of the miracle of your first question, do you have a reference? Also, the first thing that came to mind was that Imam Ali (as) wouldn't miss the prayer because (I'm assuming him being the Imam and knowing his character and all) wouldn't wait until the last minute, so he would have the time to pray, also would he come close to missing the prayer? I don't know, I just find it hard to believe that Imam Ali was busy with something else so he was going to miss the prayer and instead of Allah being forgiving or teaching him a lesson or something he would move the sun. Anyways, can you get me proof? 

Your third question too was something new to me because I believe that even if you ask from your heart it doesn't guarantee it because maybe Allah's plan is not changeable according to our demands. I believe that we make duas and Allah does what he wants, (for me) it's also a test; if you ask for something and Allah doesn't give it to you will you still believe in him? What if it's something that will do you harm more than benefiting you? Personally, I don't trust that I know what's better for myself more than the one who created me. I understand that you're talking about deadly disease and cancer, but that's God's call right? I mean if no one dies of cancer or diseases, and if Syria is free, then when will the Imam Mahdi (as) come? Also, why should Allah be expected to clean people's messes? I never got that part, God didn't cause this war and he shouldn't watch our every move to stop us from doing harm, that wouldn't be free will, right? (I'm seriously asking)

For your second question, I can't follow your logic, that if Islam is the true religion then muslim prayers should be answered. Some muslim prayers are answered, and others aren't. Also, (personally, from the videos I watched) Islam isn't restricted to al sha'hadatain, like someone can truly believe in God and just didn't have the chance to know Islam, but his heart is pure and intention clean, will he be in hellfire and considered bad? I don't think God is that unfair. So, the fact that you're suggesting that our prayers should be answered more than non-muslims is very (I don't mean to insult you, but I find it) shallow, because true believe isn't about being muslim and fasting, it's about believing in God and doing what (one thinks) is worship. Just because muslim are having a hard time and it feels and looks as if Allah left us alone, doesn't mean that he did. I believe that it'll get very very bad before it gets better, don't forget that according to islam this worldly life is not the end, so if it's bad here and now that doesn't mean that it'll be like that forever; someone who dies because of war or cancer here can be very happy and at peace after they die.. we don't know.

By the way, I've been where you are, I threw away my whole system of believe and looked for Allah all over again with many questions (that's how I found shiasim). There's this guy on youtube that I like his way of teaching the quran and pulling lessons from it, he helped me a lot (he's sunni but doesn't bring up the differences much) his name is Nouman Ali Khan, all his videos are in english, I invite you to listen to his videos about duas and tafseer for quran verses. For shia topics, I listen to Ammar Nakshawani, I can feel that his heart is filled with hurt and I think that why he is very passionate when he speaks (lol) but so far I like his videos. If you are truly looking for answers, then don't give up until you find the answers that make you feel at ease, even if you meet people (like me) who don't answer your questions well, or at all. Not being able to answer a question doesn't mean that God doesn't exist, it just means that the person doesn't have enough information to answer. We don't live in times or big miracles, just because they don't happen doesn't mean that God died and can't preform them anymore. I'm not saying either that your only answer is to believe in him, just give the question its right and time, let the right person answer it whoever that is.

I hope I helped!

There was a side argument about the legitimacy of such a miracle in this thread, there are some relevant narrations posted there.

The whole idea of a test is understandable to me; however, it seems a little convenient that so many of these cancer cases are "tests". If the duas made available to us by our imams are more potent than random duas by non-muslims then there should be a marked difference in survival rates for diseases like cancer, CHD, ESRD. The fact that the survival rates in muslim countries is so much lower and you attribute this to a "test" seems-- like I said earlier-- too convenient. 

On 6/5/2018 at 1:26 AM, ali_fatheroforphans said:

(1) Dua is an expression of humility and humbleness before Allah. Dua can even be considered a sort of worship.

(2) Allah is the lord of the universe, who will give everyone regardless of the fact that they may believe or disbelieve. Believers who ask Allah in this world, may have their duas on hold, and Allah will reward them with something better in the hereafter (there is a hadith that supports my point).

See my answers to the other responses in this post.

On 6/5/2018 at 1:27 AM, shia farm girl said:

8Yes , you're right.. I absolutely agree with you, and that's actually what I meant to say, I really don't know why I put the word "stopped" because I know better than that.

I was being pedantic, I realized you knew what you were talking about but I just had to get a word in-- my apologies.

On 6/5/2018 at 1:46 AM, shia farm girl said:

There is another realm, where things go on that we don't detect or know anything about. The Quran States it, the Bible States it, and other religious texts state that this realm exists as well. In Islam, it is called the "ghaib". It interacts with us at different times doing different things. The Angels are part of the ghaib,for example. We don't always understand how or why, and that's fine because we're human so we're extremely Limited. There are ways we can interact with the ghaib,like by making du'a as muslims do, or prayer like the Christians do, and I'm sure there's some stuff that the Hindus do as well as other religions, and these things/prayers/requests etc. have the potential of being granted based on 1001 different parameters. The point i am trying to make here, is that not everything that goes on in that realm/the ghaib is dependent upon a persons specific religion. Some of it is simply cause and effect, the algorithm that Allah/God سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى has designed for this universe to work according to. Anything we do in this world has a consequence, positive negative maybe even both. When we make dua, or pray, or whatever it is  the Hindus, Buddhists and whoever else exist out there does, it connects with the realm of the ghaib and it has an effect. None of these religions have a monopoly on God and on the  Unseen. This realm exists no matter what, however, the amount of access we have to it depends upon what we believe in, and not at the exclusion of other religions or other people. Its just simply that we may have a stronger and easier connection to it than they do. It doesn't mean they DONT have a connection to it or way of reaching it, it's just that their ways may be limited more so as compared to ours..

I can go from where I'm standing to San Francisco 45 minutes north of me and get there very quickly and directly, or, I can decide to go over the Sierra Nevadas to the east, go thru the state of Nevada, come back over the the Sierra Nevadas,then go up to Washington State, come back down thru Oregon and then finally i make it to San Francisco, in other words, the more direct path a person has, the shorter and easier it is in accessing the ghaib thru dua/prayer etc. .Some of us (different religions and practices) have a more direct means than others do. But none of us have a monopoly on Allahs  wisdom, His mercy, and all His other attributes, its just how we access these things is different. What kind of a benevolent all loving and merciful god would He be, if He only granted duas to people that were Muslim?? This is unfair and unjust. His Rahman is general, covering  everything in existence, His Rahim is more specific, and everything falls under and is covered by these 2 attributes, and this is why we see Christians,Jews and even people who hold no specific affiliation with ANY religion having their duas granted.

W/s

You admit that the connections of muslims to the ghaib is greater than those of non-muslims, so shouldn't this disparity in connection mean that our Duas are accepted more easily/more often? If this is the case then it goes back to my earlier point about how survival rates of diseases in Muslim countries should be higher because we have more powerful Duas. Even if other countries have the power of Dua, the difference in how often ours are accepted vs how often theirs are accepted should be reflected in things like survival rates for diseases.

On 6/5/2018 at 3:02 AM, Shi3i_jadeed said:

That's only an issue if you take the interpretation that the splitting of the moon means the moon literally split in two. There is a difference of opinion whether the splitting was literal or not. It is possible (and this is the opinion of some mufasiroon) that the moon only appeared to split to the Arabs only but in reality did not actually literally split in half. This opinion is quite appealing given that it allows one to accept the veracity of the miracle of the moon splitting while also having an answer to why no one else saw it outside of the Arabian peninsula. 

This is a viable answer. Do you by any chance have any narrations or any quotes from any authority to suggest that this is the case?

On 6/5/2018 at 3:11 AM, Salsabeel said:

The highlighted underlined part is the fallacy. Everyone possess the power of dua, it is our builtin capacity that we automatically call the Ultimate Helper/Supreme Being when we are distressed & ill.  
I will not going to quote verses of Holy Quran to you from now as you have made clear that you just want logical answers. 

 

So then your argument is that the Duas of Muslims and Non-muslims are accepted all the same? So the fact that our Imams taught us special Duas for specific ailments doesn't cause our Duas to be more powerful? So what then is the purpose of reciting the Duas taught by our Imams when we could-- for lack of better words-- free style it and have the same result. Furthermore, how do you explain the fact that pious people are supposed to have their Duas accepted over those who are not pious, after all isn't that why we ask Ulema to make Dua for us.

On 6/5/2018 at 5:55 AM, MohammadAli1993 said:

So what data are you using that you are making conclusion that Muslim Duas are not getting accepted. Have you actually tested it yourself with a large group of Muslims and Non Muslims

I'm very curious 

Although such data isn't available, when we compare things like survival rates for various types of cancers by country we see that it is western countries-- and not countries with a muslim majority-- that have the highest survival rates. I understand that this is more than likely because the treatment options in the US and other western countries are far superior to those of most Muslim countries; however, this would suggest that Dua to the almighty Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى can be trumped by superior medication which makes the case for Dua being a powerful tool a lot weaker.

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1 hour ago, DestinationUnknown said:

So then your argument is that the Duas of Muslims and Non-muslims are accepted all the same?

Yes, you need to understand the fact that those dua are not guarded in any secret tablet where any disbeliever dont have access. 

Anyone can use those duas with their proper manners & requisites.

1 hour ago, DestinationUnknown said:

So what then is the purpose of reciting the Duas taught by our Imams when we could-- for lack of better words-- free style it and have the same result. Furthermore, how do you explain the fact that pious people are supposed to have their Duas accepted over those who are not pious, after all isn't that why we ask Ulema to make Dua for us.

Every human being is set free in accepting & rejecting the divine message. Everyone of us is free to chose to become pious.

This world is a place of tests & trials and we have to leave this place one day. One should remember this fact alone and one should note that the ailments which brings him closer to God, are His mercy & a form of trial while the ailments which drives us away from Him are inflicted upon us as punishment.

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3 hours ago, DestinationUnknown said:

The whole idea of a test is understandable to me; however, it seems a little convenient that so many of these cancer cases are "tests". If the duas made available to us by our imams are more potent than random duas by non-muslims then there should be a marked difference in survival rates for diseases like cancer, CHD, ESRD. The fact that the survival rates in muslim countries is so much lower and you attribute this to a "test" seems-- like I said earlier-- too convenient. 

What do you mean "too convenient" are you looking for a different answer? The fact that these things are making you question the existence of God prove to me that it's more of a test than "convenience". What I said "test", I didn't mean just for the family and the one who're suffering. Also, I don't know why you are so attached to the idea that the duas taught by the imams are so majestic that Allah can't refuse them when we use them. Allah doesn't need to do as he is told by us through these duas, there's a lot of elements for that. There's the fact that he has a plan, or won't answer it now, or what he's doing is better than what we are asking for. I know it might sound stupid and unfair to you (maybe even funny) but this religion worked with the unseen a lot, and we have to understand that we can't know everything. I mean, everyone that is helping is giving suggestions as to why Allah isn't accepting the duas, but truly no one knows because that's how God wants it. Here's a thought though, instead of worrying about what we can't possibly know for sure, why don't you look around (and in) you for the things that he did do? Like where did we come from? How is the world came to be so organized? That's how I started, then I studied the quran (well listened to lecturers) and was convinced that it's from god because of the way its written, for me that's a miracle, and from there  I started reading it and knowing Allah more which is why your question doesn't bother me because I know how fair and just he is.

Just a thought

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There are  1001 parameters (Meaning, unestimitable and unknown) for duas to be granted irrespective of who what where when how, etc. situation a person is involved in.

Lets first  look at this ayatt and see what Allah is telling us about how things operate:

Surah An-Nisa, Verse 79:
مَّا أَصَابَكَ مِنْ حَسَنَةٍ فَمِنَ اللَّهِ وَمَا أَصَابَكَ مِن سَيِّئَةٍ فَمِن نَّفْسِكَ وَأَرْسَلْنَاكَ لِلنَّاسِ رَسُولًا وَكَفَىٰ بِاللَّهِ شَهِيدً

(4:79) Whatever good happens to you is from Allah; and whatever misfortune smites you is because of your own action. We have sent you to mankind (O Muhammad!) as a Messenger, and Allah is sufficient as a witness.


Looking at the granting of duas in light of this ayatt, and if we believe according to this ayatt, that good comes from Allah and bad from us as it says in the ayatt, then we have to believe that when something "bad" happens to us, or our duas dont get answered, at least not that we know of, that it is because it is kheyr for us that the dua is not answered, and if it IS granted, its because Allah has deemed it as kheyr for us, or maybe even for those around us, or for the people we will cross paths with, etc.
It can be very hard for us to accept things that we see as "bad" as being something Allah has deemed as "good" for us to go thru but that is where we need to acknowledge Allahs "all-knowingness" and the our deficiency in our knowledge.
Another ayatt to keep in mind is:

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 186:
وَإِذَا سَأَلَكَ عِبَادِي عَنِّي فَإِنِّي قَرِيبٌ أُجِيبُ دَعْوَةَ الدَّاعِ إِذَا دَعَانِ فَلْيَسْتَجِيبُوا لِي وَلْيُؤْمِنُوا بِي لَعَلَّهُمْ يَرْشُدُونَ

And when My servants ask you concerning Me, then surely I am very near; I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he calls on Me, so they should answer My call and believe in Me that they may walk in the right way.
(English - Shakir)

Here, Allah has said He answers our supplications and duas, and He ALWAYS answers, but sometimes, the answer is "no". He may also choose to abstain from granting our dua in THIS world and the answer/granting of it will occur in the akhira...regardless, He ALWAYS answers.


In some cases, it may be that the ayatt of:

Surah An-Nisa, Verse 19:
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لَا يَحِلُّ لَكُمْ أَن تَرِثُوا النِّسَاءَ كَرْهًا وَلَا تَعْضُلُوهُنَّ لِتَذْهَبُوا بِبَعْضِ مَا آتَيْتُمُوهُنَّ إِلَّا أَن يَأْتِينَ بِفَاحِشَةٍ مُّبَيِّنَةٍ وَعَاشِرُوهُنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ فَإِن كَرِهْتُمُوهُنَّ فَعَسَىٰ أَن تَكْرَهُوا شَيْئًا وَيَجْعَلَ اللَّهُ فِيهِ خَيْرًا كَثِيرًا

O you who believe! it is not lawful for you that you should take women as heritage against (their) will, and do not straiten them in order that you may take part of what you have given them, unless they are guilty of manifest indecency, and treat them kindly; then if you hate them, it may be that you dislike a thing while Allah has placed abundant good in it.

This line:
"...it may be that you dislike a thing while Allah has placed abundant good in it."

...is that part I am referring to, that we may dislike that our dua is not answered, but Allah has placed abundant good in that dua not being answered.

These ayatts discuss universal truths, not things that apply only to Muslims, therefore these truths apply to all people across the globe, and for all time, they have been and will be subject to them rather they know it or not.

These are just a few things mentioned in the Quran that will effect whether a dua is answered or not,but there are other things that need to be taken into consideration such as the person themselves- this algorithym Allah has subjected us to can very simply be looked at as cause and effect at its most basic level. If a person is good and puts that goodness to use through helping others in any way, shape or form, the chances of their duas being granted increases, but it isnt necessarily guaranteed, whether they be a religious person (of any religion) or not. If they are the opposite, someone who has bad intentions in general, commits many sins, etc, the chances for their duas being granted declines, but again, it doesnt mean a "bad" persons duas are never granted-Allah granting a "bad"persons dua may be part of the bigger plan of bringing that person into the folds of Islam eventually,or even just to a better point in their life, or maybe the granting of that dua will have a positive effect on someone else in that persons life, like maybe its granting will benefit their kids, or maybe even a totall stranger they will cross paths with that day. We have no way of knowing how or why a dua will be answered to ANY person. There are too many intricacies and details involved.
There are other scenarios. Maybe a sick person has made many duas for their own recovery, but God didnt grant THEIR dua, He granted the dua of the persons MOM who wants her child to become well, because the MOMS a good person..and the list of possibilities goes on and on. We do not and can not know the ghaib and the myriad of different circumstances and causes and effects surrounding even a minuscule ammount of a person,place or thing...this "unknown" realm is the ghaib, and this is Allahs realm.

Muslims in general are no different than many other people in the sense that most of us are sinners and imperfect to different degrees. Maybe this is why we dont see more duas being answered in our ummah, because the majority of muslims arent acting according to their high potential that Allah has blessed humanity with, just like other people are not either. How can we as Muslims expect the ammount of duas we are granted as individuals within our ummah to be more if we as individuals havent put in the necessary efforts? And again, THATS not a guarantee either, because of ALLLLL the OTHER parameters that Allah is aware of and we arent. Just because we are muslim doesnt necessarily mean all our duas will be answered, but thats one of the blessings of Islam-if we really want to live Islam to the dot, we have the "how to" books to do so, like the Quran, the risallas and the reliable hadiths to do so and to in sha Allah increase the liklihood of our duas being answered..I dont know of any other belief system that has micromanagement built into it for those who care to apply it..Maybe not enough muslims are applying themselves at that level for the results you would like to see happening to be occuring, but again, this is not a guarantee of duas being accepted.

Other reasons for our duas not being granted is because it teaches us how to be patient, how to trust in Allahs guidance, and how to submit to His will, which means accepting that what we want to happen may very well NOT be what Allah wants to happen, but rest assured, theres a reason for that, and only Allah knows what that is, because He doesnt do ANYTHING without a reason...there is no such thing as randomness-thats just a word people use when they dont have enough knowledge to be able to understand why something happens the way it does. When u look at islam, the deepest a person can go is to submit to Allah so much, it becomes as if the person has ceased to exist, and this ultimate level of submission is only possible through truly accepting whatever comes our way, knowing its kheyr in some manner, and that Allah has chosen it for us in His infinite knowledge and love for us,and i think that when all the above is applied, that maybe muslims DO have a higher chance of their duas being granted, but thats IF all the other criteria are met and if Allah deems answering the dua as beneficial for the person. But yea, just like a parent disciplining their child..they dont do it to be mean-they do it because they love their child and want the best for them, even if that means their child will suffer a bit.

There are other issues too, for example, if a person lives in an area that has a high crime rate, should it be a suprise if their house gets burgularized, or in a worst case scenario, they get shot? Sometimes the environment we are in will be the cause our suffering. Did we do anything inherrently "wrong" being there? No, but it wasnt a smart decision, so we have to suffer the consequence of the situation.

Surah Ar-Rad, Verse 11:
لَهُ مُعَقِّبَاتٌ مِّن بَيْنِ يَدَيْهِ وَمِنْ خَلْفِهِ يَحْفَظُونَهُ مِنْ أَمْرِ اللَّهِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يُغَيِّرُ مَا بِقَوْمٍ حَتَّىٰ يُغَيِّرُوا مَا بِأَنفُسِهِمْ وَإِذَا أَرَادَ اللَّهُ بِقَوْمٍ سُوءًا فَلَا مَرَدَّ لَهُ وَمَا لَهُم مِّن دُونِهِ مِن وَالٍ

For his sake there are angels following one another, before him and behind him, who guard him by Allah's commandment; surely Allah does not change the condition of a people until they change their own condition; and when Allah intends evil to a people, there is no averting it, and besides Him they have no protector.
(English - Shakir)

...Allah does not change the condition of a people until they change their own condition.

If youre making dua to not be in financial hardship, but youre not looking for a job, Allah most likely is not going to Grant that dua. In order for many duas to be granted, we have to go through all the necessary steps working towards that goal, and then Allah will provide the means through your effort (the job) THIS is how He changes the condition of a person once they change it themselves. They have to become active towards that. Making du'a for a million dollars to fall into your lap is highly unlikely to happen. We have to put in the work. Its part of our tests and trials here.

Part of Allahs commandments to us and our responsibility in this religion is to make duas to Him-its what He has charged us with, so in the very least, we make dua to Him to uphold our responsibility, all the while accepting whatever His will for us is. Sorry im running out of time at the moment so i cant provide evidence for this last statement at this time.

At the end of the day, and at the end of this very long post, LOL, whether we can understand why or why not duas are or are not granted shouldnt be a sole reason to question the legitimacy or Truth of Islam as the right religion. Islam is an all encompassing religion and it has guidance and answers for us every step of the way, which is way more than I can say for the other religions I have either been a part of at one time or have studied about. Islam covers all the bases and is rational and reasonable and fair and just. When we look at something as small as why or why not duas are or are not answered, and compare it to the other 99% of the religion, it really shouldn't be a reason to question whether it is the right religion or not or a good base reason to decide to leave it considering everything else the religion is and has to offer, especially when understanding this particular point is something that is not humanly possible due to our limitations.


...1001+ parameters that we have no way of knowing to determine why some duas are granted, and others are not, and this is regardless of religious affiliation, if any.

W/s

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Every deed of human, whether a believer or disbeliever reaches to Allah (s.w.t).

Assume a disbeliever praying before an idol who neither listen nor see and neither have the capacity to help.

Where would his dua reaches? Who listens to his dua? Do you think Allah (s.w.t) not listen their duas? Are those just mere words which went unlistened?

And if you believe He is the only one who listens to every one, how can you say the Allah (s.w.t) do not accept the dua of disbelievers when He Himself saying that "All do we aid"?

Edited by Salsabeel

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On 6/3/2018 at 4:34 PM, Salsabeel said:

Are there time zones on Earth? Or you think sun shines everywhere on earth equally and there is no night & day concept?

Is there a possibility that because of heavy clouds, one remains unable to detect that miracle? 

A normal healthy man takes maximum 5 minutes to finish 4 raka'h prayers. A 5-10 minute reversal of sun is not that big event that it can catch the attention of people of the area (leave aside the people of the whole world).

This miracle is reported in a hadith, but a more big miracle is mentioned in Quran:

Surah Al-Qamar, Verse 1:
اقْتَرَبَتِ السَّاعَةُ وَانشَقَّ الْقَمَرُ

The hour drew nigh and the moon did rend asunder.
(English - Shakir)

Why didn't the Prophet (s) just wake him up? Why to reverse sun "for 10 minutes"??

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On 6/8/2018 at 4:58 AM, DestinationUnknown said:

There was a side argument about the legitimacy of such a miracle in this thread, there are some relevant narrations posted there.

The whole idea of a test is understandable to me; however, it seems a little convenient that so many of these cancer cases are "tests". If the duas made available to us by our imams are more potent than random duas by non-muslims then there should be a marked difference in survival rates for diseases like cancer, CHD, ESRD. The fact that the survival rates in muslim countries is so much lower and you attribute this to a "test" seems-- like I said earlier-- too convenient. 

See my answers to the other responses in this post.

I was being pedantic, I realized you knew what you were talking about but I just had to get a word in-- my apologies.

You admit that the connections of muslims to the ghaib is greater than those of non-muslims, so shouldn't this disparity in connection mean that our Duas are accepted more easily/more often? If this is the case then it goes back to my earlier point about how survival rates of diseases in Muslim countries should be higher because we have more powerful Duas. Even if other countries have the power of Dua, the difference in how often ours are accepted vs how often theirs are accepted should be reflected in things like survival rates for diseases.

This is a viable answer. Do you by any chance have any narrations or any quotes from any authority to suggest that this is the case?

So then your argument is that the Duas of Muslims and Non-muslims are accepted all the same? So the fact that our Imams taught us special Duas for specific ailments doesn't cause our Duas to be more powerful? So what then is the purpose of reciting the Duas taught by our Imams when we could-- for lack of better words-- free style it and have the same result. Furthermore, how do you explain the fact that pious people are supposed to have their Duas accepted over those who are not pious, after all isn't that why we ask Ulema to make Dua for us.

Although such data isn't available, when we compare things like survival rates for various types of cancers by country we see that it is western countries-- and not countries with a muslim majority-- that have the highest survival rates. I understand that this is more than likely because the treatment options in the US and other western countries are far superior to those of most Muslim countries; however, this would suggest that Dua to the almighty Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى can be trumped by superior medication which makes the case for Dua being a powerful tool a lot weaker.

1. Dua means to call out in a state of need.  

2. Dua comes from one’s heart, it isn’t on ones tongue (although a tongue can sometimes express the state in one’s heart).  

3. Everyone is constantly making dua because everyone is constantly in need. Many of us are not even aware of our state of need most of the time.  

4. God responds to each person’s call by wisely giving each and everyone one what will be in the best interest of the goal of the entire creation.  God looks at the creation as a whole, because it is in fact a whole (one creation).  Yes, He does see the parts but He doesn’t see each part independently of the other part. He takes into consideration everyone and everything and then gives to each whatever will contribute to fulfilling the goal of the creation as a whole.

5. The reason why we are taught to make dua, is for us to realize our need.  All of us are in need, but most of us are not aware of it.  We are taught to make dua because we are taught to “consciously” ask for that which will fulfill the goal of the entire creation.  And what is this ultimate goal?  God Himself.  

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2 hours ago, M.IB said:

Why didn't the Prophet (s) just wake him up? Why to reverse sun "for 10 minutes"??

:) Read the history at the following link. It was not the Ali(asws) who was sleeping, it was Prophet (S). 

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Radd_al-Shams#During_the_time_of_The_Prophet_.28s.29

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On 6/3/2018 at 7:35 AM, DestinationUnknown said:

:bismillah:

:salam:

Not really sure how to start this off, but for the past few years I've been struggling with my faith. It seems that the only way I was able to truly believe in Allah (s.w.t) and indeed god in general was by taking everything I was told at face value instead of investigating further. After many years I began to realize that there were just too many questions that I couldn't answer and a lot of hand-waviness in regards to the answers I did come up with. Despite saying all this I've never been more at ease than when I believed in God, and I truly wish to once again believe in him. So if it is okay with everybody I would like to pose a few questions that have troubled me.

1) My first question is about the miracle of the sun going back so that Imam Ali (as) would not miss his prayer. During this time there were tons of people around the world who had taken interest in the sun and indeed astronomy in general. If such a miracle had happened then it would've been seen everywhere else on earth as well. Given how easy it is to notice something like that you would expect to hear about it in history books from all over the world and yet the only place we hear about it is in ahadith.

2) My second point is about Duas in general. If Islam is indeed the true religion then we would expect that the prayers of Muslims would be accepted more often than that of non-muslims/non-believers. If this is the case then we should expect to see higher remission rates in diseases like cancer for Muslim populations when compared to non-muslim populations assuming that the treatments given and numerous other factors are the same for both groups. This is not the case either, or at least a quick search of the literature did not reveal it to be the case. 

3) I understand that sometimes Duas are not accepted because they are not asked from the heart; however, across the Ummah we see muslims everywhere praying for the situation in Syria and yet the situation still remains grim. One could argue that perhaps one or two people are not genuine in their prayers, but if every single person who asks for peace does not have his/her prayer answered then it seems that the criteria to have one's prayer accepted is simply too strict or that there is no one listening to the prayers at all.

I'm sorry if my questions are harsh in tone but believe me when I say I'm here to ask for help, not to belittle the very ideas that I so desperately want to believe in once again.

Regards,

1. I feel confident rejecting this story out of hand; my rational and textual justifications for doing so are available.

2&3. These questions display a general lack of understanding of established theological principles and seem to be based on some faulty premises. I don't mean to sound rude so please excuse me, but these objections are naïve.

But these questions don't have anything to do with whether or not God exists; you have to establish that for yourself before reasoning on to other issues such as the ones you raised. Rejecting Islam based on stories and misunderstandings, but refusing to accept the criterion it actually uses to separate truth from falsehood (i.e. the Qur'ān - you called it circular reasoning when another respondent cited some āyāt in support of their point) also seems a bit disjointed.

If you ask me, you should throw everything else on the back burner until you sort out whether you accept God's existence (and what kind of God that is).

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3 reasons people become non religious Sayed Ammar Nakhshawani 

https://youtu.be/ncYx3fjOrsc

 

why some lose faith | Shaykh Usama Abdulghani 

https://youtu.be/-Q-fqdVyweA

 

 

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On 6/3/2018 at 9:35 AM, DestinationUnknown said:

higher remission rates in diseases like cancer for Muslim populations when compared to non-muslim populations assuming that the treatments given and numerous other factors are the same for both groups. This is not the case either, or at least a quick search of the literature did not reveal it to be the case. 

That's irrelevant. Muslims represent less than a quarter of the globe. Do you have any statistics for that?! Plus these stuff relate to Political issues than religious. See how most of Muslims in the west are successful and most of them managed to keep their faith.

On 6/3/2018 at 9:35 AM, DestinationUnknown said:

3) I understand that sometimes Duas are not accepted because they are not asked from the heart; however, across the Ummah we see muslims everywhere praying for the situation in Syria and yet the situation still remains grim. One could argue that perhaps one or two people are not genuine in their prayers, but if every single person who asks for peace does not have his/her prayer answered then it seems that the criteria to have one's prayer accepted is simply too strict or that there is no one listening to the prayers at all.

First of all Allah will not miraculously stop the violence. Allah clearly taught us that with Du'a comes with action. E.g: You can't just pray to God to give you money while you're sitting at home. You must perform, search for a job, ask about current requirements for job markets, making financial plans etc...

And if we Muslims aren't even helping ourselves how will we live in peace? I'm mean just look at this site, we all are Shi'as and some of us just curse and fight each other. Ummah of Muhammad was traitorous to it's own prophet. Pity. 

:ws:

Edited by M.IB

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11 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

:) Read the history at the following link. It was not the Ali(asws) who was sleeping, it was Prophet (S). 

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Radd_al-Shams#During_the_time_of_The_Prophet_.28s.29

 

3 hours ago, M.IB said:

It's my fault then :) 

ردالشمس للامام علی -وثائقی

 

 

Masjid-e-Radd-Shams (Hilla , Iraq)

 

 

Full speech in German about Radd Shams

https://youtu.be/MI_CZvHzdO4

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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On 6/3/2018 at 7:35 AM, DestinationUnknown said:

:bismillah:

:salam:

Not really sure how to start this off, but for the past few years I've been struggling with my faith. It seems that the only way I was able to truly believe in Allah (s.w.t) and indeed god in general was by taking everything I was told at face value instead of investigating further. After many years I began to realize that there were just too many questions that I couldn't answer and a lot of hand-waviness in regards to the answers I did come up with. Despite saying all this I've never been more at ease than when I believed in God, and I truly wish to once again believe in him. So if it is okay with everybody I would like to pose a few questions that have troubled me.

1) My first question is about the miracle of the sun going back so that Imam Ali (as) would not miss his prayer. During this time there were tons of people around the world who had taken interest in the sun and indeed astronomy in general. If such a miracle had happened then it would've been seen everywhere else on earth as well. Given how easy it is to notice something like that you would expect to hear about it in history books from all over the world and yet the only place we hear about it is in ahadith.

2) My second point is about Duas in general. If Islam is indeed the true religion then we would expect that the prayers of Muslims would be accepted more often than that of non-muslims/non-believers. If this is the case then we should expect to see higher remission rates in diseases like cancer for Muslim populations when compared to non-muslim populations assuming that the treatments given and numerous other factors are the same for both groups. This is not the case either, or at least a quick search of the literature did not reveal it to be the case. 

3) I understand that sometimes Duas are not accepted because they are not asked from the heart; however, across the Ummah we see muslims everywhere praying for the situation in Syria and yet the situation still remains grim. One could argue that perhaps one or two people are not genuine in their prayers, but if every single person who asks for peace does not have his/her prayer answered then it seems that the criteria to have one's prayer accepted is simply too strict or that there is no one listening to the prayers at all.

I'm sorry if my questions are harsh in tone but believe me when I say I'm here to ask for help, not to belittle the very ideas that I so desperately want to believe in once again.

Regards,

1.) I've never heard of this, sure it's technically possible but I don't think it's actually binding to believe in any ahad narrations, especially if they do not have sahih hadiths.

I think this is a major issue these days which I myself have been through, it's OK to doubt narrations

Even if the narration was sahih, I don't think doubting it would take you out of Islam - remember usul-ud-din is what makes you Muslim.

Many people will probably disagree with what I've just said but if you read the books on aqeedah and listen to top scholars you will find it so.

 

2.)

This is back to the old free will / predestination debate - I recommend "Man and His Destiny" by Ayatollah Mutahhari.

It's interesting that Muslims in the time of the prophet (as) and imams (as) never saw this contradiction between free will, destiny, justice and injustice.

This is an old debate that has vexed practically the whole Muslim world so do not feel bad about this.

In a way it's like the above, because no one talks about it, people become scared of it.

Out of all groups, the Shi'i and Imams (AS) debated this one the most which is reassuring.

 

3.)

The situation in Syria is indeed grim and hard to swallow for any believer in a divine power, but it comes back to the point above and the principle of 'Adalat and man being a Khalifa.

Man has the responsibility and what we are witnessing is a violation of human responsibility and lives...

Mutahhari also has a book of Divine Justice which I also recommend.

 

I hope that helps brother.

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On 6/3/2018 at 11:40 AM, starlight said:

@DestinationUnknown Do you believe in Quran? Have you heard of the miracle of the splitting of the moon. 

The Hour has come near, and the moon has split [in two](54:1)

@Salsabeel mentioned the verse above but I woukd also like to quote the verse following it

And if they see a miracle, they turn away and say, "Passing magic." (54:2) 

How many times have you seen or heard this phenomenon being reported in history books? Do you think it's a possibility that things like these were purposely brushed off as being magic to stop people from converting to islam?

I'm a non-Muslim & this makes absolute, perfect sense to me. Please, just indulge me:

The Qu'ran is the revelation to the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) from God, through Jibril right?

God can easily show a person something that has happened in ancient history. The moon "splitting in two' was a vision of an actual asteroid strike on the moon that no doubt left the craters we can see from earth. When the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) tried to explain to others the real, actual science in the language of the era and region, they were foolish enough to not believe about the asteroid when the evidence is plain.

That seems highly probable, gien how people have always scoffed at prophets.

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On 6/2/2018 at 11:35 PM, DestinationUnknown said:

My first question is about the miracle of the sun going back so that Imam Ali (as) would not miss his prayer. During this time there were tons of people around the world who had taken interest in the sun and indeed astronomy in general. If such a miracle had happened then it would've been seen everywhere else on earth as well. Given how easy it is to notice something like that you would expect to hear about it in history books from all over the world and yet the only place we hear about it is in ahadith.

It could also just mean that the Prophet asked God to accept Ali's prayer, even if it is late. 

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27 minutes ago, megaman said:

It could also just mean that the Prophet asked God to accept Ali's prayer, even if it is late

Imam Ali (as) didn't late for prayer prophet & Imam Ali were praying Dhuhr Prayer & prophet (pbU) did Asr prayer as qasr in travelling &prophet (pbu) put his head on feet of Imam Ali(as)  but when he waked up it was still time for Asr prayer and sun stayed or back for a very limited time that Imam Ali (as) did qasr of Asr prayer.

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On 7/14/2018 at 12:36 PM, megaman said:

It could also just mean that the Prophet asked God to accept Ali's prayer, even if it is late. 

At least Imam Ali offered prayers to his Lord, unlike Baha'u'llah who claimed himself to be God and asked his followers to pray in his direction, making himself a 'moving Qiblih', when he was alive.

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On 6/3/2018 at 2:35 AM, DestinationUnknown said:

2) My second point is about Duas in general. If Islam is indeed the true religion then we would expect that the prayers of Muslims would be accepted more often than that of non-muslims/non-believers. If this is the case then we should expect to see higher remission rates in diseases like cancer for Muslim populations when compared to non-muslim populations assuming that the treatments given and numerous other factors are the same for both groups. This is not the case either, or at least a quick search of the literature did not reveal it to be the case. 

First thing that came to mind when reading this, with the experience of being involved in healthcare in both the West and the Middle East, is that unfortunately often times non-muslims work harder and with more integrity than "muslims".

When you make a dua, you are expected to strive hard to achieve what you wish and Allah will open doors for you. 

In the West they more often genuinely wish to develop advanced treatments and actually deliver these treatments to the people.

In the middle-east they more often want publications under their belt and don't care for actually transferring any advances in research to the clinical setting, and even when they do, many times it isn't sincere and it is for making money.

So it is no surprise the remission rates are higher in those 1st world Non-muslim countries; many of them actually try hard and try sincerely to help God's creatures, whereas many "muslims" are lazy and just want to help themselves, and unfortunately the public in some parts of the middle east doesn't try hard enough to do anything to fix that disgusting lazy/dishonest culture... so they end up reaping what they sow.

Hope that helps.

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On 6/3/2018 at 12:35 AM, DestinationUnknown said:

:bismillah:

:salam:

Not really sure how to start this off, but for the past few years I've been struggling with my faith. It seems that the only way I was able to truly believe in Allah (s.w.t) and indeed god in general was by taking everything I was told at face value instead of investigating further. After many years I began to realize that there were just too many questions that I couldn't answer and a lot of hand-waviness in regards to the answers I did come up with. Despite saying all this I've never been more at ease than when I believed in God, and I truly wish to once again believe in him. So if it is okay with everybody I would like to pose a few questions that have troubled me.

1) My first question is about the miracle of the sun going back so that Imam Ali (as) would not miss his prayer. During this time there were tons of people around the world who had taken interest in the sun and indeed astronomy in general. If such a miracle had happened then it would've been seen everywhere else on earth as well. Given how easy it is to notice something like that you would expect to hear about it in history books from all over the world and yet the only place we hear about it is in ahadith.

2) My second point is about Duas in general. If Islam is indeed the true religion then we would expect that the prayers of Muslims would be accepted more often than that of non-muslims/non-believers. If this is the case then we should expect to see higher remission rates in diseases like cancer for Muslim populations when compared to non-muslim populations assuming that the treatments given and numerous other factors are the same for both groups. This is not the case either, or at least a quick search of the literature did not reveal it to be the case. 

3) I understand that sometimes Duas are not accepted because they are not asked from the heart; however, across the Ummah we see muslims everywhere praying for the situation in Syria and yet the situation still remains grim. One could argue that perhaps one or two people are not genuine in their prayers, but if every single person who asks for peace does not have his/her prayer answered then it seems that the criteria to have one's prayer accepted is simply too strict or that there is no one listening to the prayers at all.

I'm sorry if my questions are harsh in tone but believe me when I say I'm here to ask for help, not to belittle the very ideas that I so desperately want to believe in once again.

Regards,

I had the same problem with Christianity.

Don't confuse what God says with what people say God says. At the same time, you can't base the existence of God by man's earthly perception of heavenly events. Miracles and events are reported from ages ago. None can be verified past ancient records. They are intended to bring awareness of God, not evidence.

I had a fellow tell me he didn't want to believe in God because someone told him he would not recognize his children in heaven. Of course he didn't have a source and couldn't really remember the "someone", but the concept is what was stuck in his mind. I challenged him to find the source of the claim, I doubt he ever will. 

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17 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

I had the same problem with Christianity.

https://www.al-islam.org/islam-in-the-bible-thomas-mcelwain

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5536015-islam-in-the-bible

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On 6/3/2018 at 10:40 AM, starlight said:

@DestinationUnknown Do you believe in Quran? Have you heard of the miracle of the splitting of the moon. 

The Hour has come near, and the moon has split [in two](54:1)

@Salsabeel mentioned the verse above but I woukd also like to quote the verse following it

And if they see a miracle, they turn away and say, "Passing magic." (54:2) 

How many times have you seen or heard this phenomenon being reported in history books? Do you think it's a possibility that things like these were purposely brushed off as being magic to stop people from converting to islam?

I have no right, but the concept of the moon "splitting" as I am thinking about it at this very moment, is bringing to mind an eclipse.

It's actually a pretty solid theory that the moon split off from Earth, too.

Like I say to "fellow" Christians about OT stories that seem absurd: "Remember that these tales came from a specific time and place in human history & thus have to be viewed in that context" 

(I'm not a Muslim, here I am defending the Quran... What a strange experience that is this life)

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