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Can we break fast at Sunni maghrib time?

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Asalam-o-Alaikum 

Can we break fast at Sunni maghrib time? Or can we do maghrib at Sunni time and break fast right after? It’s recommended to pray before breaking your fast.. According to the ruling, it’s not obligatory to wait for the redness in the sky to go away, just as a precaution we can wait few more minutes after Sunni maghrib prayers. Can anyone explain please? 

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Alaikis salaam, 

I think the answer below sums up your query. We're not allowed. 

Question: I am a Sunni woman who has embraced the Shia religion. No one in my family knows that I have converted to Shi'ism. How should I go about iftar given the fact that Sunnis break their fast about 12 minutes earlier than the Shia timetable?

Answer: If you can break your fast according to Shia timing, you should do so. You can go out of your home and break your fast somewhere and then come back home. If that is not possible and there is no way other than breaking your fast with your family, you can break your fast but the obligatory precaution is that you should observe the qadha of those days later after Ramadhan.

https://www.sistani.org/english/qa/02662/

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Salaam Alaykum

I checked Ayatollah Bahjat, Khamenei, Makaram Shirazy, Sistani, Fazel, Safi, Noury, Tabrizy and Vahid.

All said the time to do Iftar is Maghrib time. Maghrib time is a time that sun is hidden in horizon and the sky redness is removed from the sky(when you stand outside, if you look above your head, you won't see the redness)

Maghrib is different than Ghroub. Maghrib happens 15-20 mins after Ghroub. This time is pray time, so you must wait till after Azan. Shiite time is correct.

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:salam:

Hardly any marja' has a fatwa on this ruling. Everyone either has an Ihtiyat Wajib, or Ihtiyat Mustahabb, or no Ihtiyat at all. If you follow one of the marja' that says Ihtiyat Wajib you can follow the next most learned marja' and if they say it is Ihtiyat Mustahabb or don't give any Ihtiyat, then you can pray and open your fast at the time the sun sets (rather than when the redness disappears - i.e. "Sunni" time).

These are a number of contemporary marja' that consider Maghrib prayers to be at sunset (i.e. "Sunni" time - I don't like calling it Sunni time, since the ruling can be proven through our own traditions as well and has been a view of many of our scholars):

Sayyid Sadiq Rouhani: On the Arabic website it says

وقت المغرب والعشاء للمختار ما بين غروب الشمس (أو المغرب) و نصف الليل

Source: http://www.rohani.ir/ar/idetail/2802/هل--ن--وقت-صلاة-المغرب-و-العشا--ممتد-ال---ذان-الفج

On the Farsi website, it says

گاهاً حدود 15دقیقه تا اذان مغرب، زمان هست، که به غروب آفتاب مشهور است. حال زمان افطار، غروب آفتاب است یا اذان مغرب؟

جواب: باسمه جلت اسمائه - به فتوای من زمان افطار غروب آفتاب است ولی مقتضای احتیاط این است که تا مغرب صبر کنید

Basically implying it is Ihtiyat Mustahabb to wait (not necessary). Source: http://www.rohani.ir/fa/idetail/977/زمان-افطار--غروب-آفتاب-است-یا-اذان-مغرب-

Sayyid al-Hakeem:  The time of Maghrib prayer is the setting of the sun. If there is doubt about it, then one should wait till he is certain that the sun has set. The disappearance of the redness in the eastern sky is an indication that the sun has indeed set.

The prime time of the Maghrib prayer is from the sunset till the disappearance of the redness from the western horizon.

Source: http://www.alhakeem.com/en/questions/952

Shaykh Makarem Shirazi: Issue No.675 - Maghrib is the time when the sun disappears in the horizon. *As a measure of precaution, one should wait till the redness that appears in the east after sunset passes over head towards west. The time for Maghrib and Isha prayers arrives at sunset and continues till midnight.

Source: https://makarem.ir/main.aspx?reader=1&lid=1&mid=36328&catid=36365&pid=61939

*Precaution after a Fatwa means Ihtiyat Mustahabb.

Sayyid Taqi Modaressi: On his Arabic website it says the following

وقت صلاة المغرب هو عند سقوط قرص الشمس وغروبها، والذي يُعرَف عادة بارتفاع الحمرة المشرقية وانفصالها عن أفق الأرض

Source: http://almodarresi.com/estifta/question/view/6184

On his Farsi website it sayss:

زمان افطار، فرارسیدن مغرب شرعی است. بنابراین اگر اذان آنان مطابق با مغرب شرعی باشد، جایز است

Source: http://almodarresi.com/fa/estefta/question/view/47

Shaykh Saanei:

مغرب همان غروب عرفى است كه خورشيد غروب مى كند و در تحقّق مغرب، ذهاب حُمره مشرقيّه بر طرف شدن سرخى طرف مشرق، لازم نيست

Source: http://saanei.org/index.php?view=01,02,09,2128,0

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^ thanks for posting. Here’s what Ay. Sistani says:

https://www.sistani.org/english/book/48/2202/

Prime time for Maghrib salat starts around 7 minutes after the sun sets, that’s where the redness in the sky disappears from the sky overhead. “Overhead” is the key here. Look straight up, if it’s darker and there is no redness, it’s time for Maghrib salat.

Fast open time is obviously Layl (night) which could be 10-15 min later depending on the time in the year. 

743. The obligatory precaution is that as long as the redness in the eastern sky appearing after sunset has not passed overhead, Maghrib Namaz should not be performed.

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On 5/25/2018 at 4:33 PM, Ibn al-Hussain said:

:salam:

Hardly any marja' has a fatwa on this ruling. Everyone either has an Ihtiyat Wajib, or Ihtiyat Mustahabb, or no Ihtiyat at all. If you follow one of the marja' that says Ihtiyat Wajib you can follow the next most learned marja' and if they say it is Ihtiyat Mustahabb or don't give any Ihtiyat, then you can pray and open your fast at the time the sun sets (rather than when the redness disappears - i.e. "Sunni" time).

These are a number of contemporary marja' that consider Maghrib prayers to be at sunset

Sayyid Sadiq Rouhani: On the Arabic website it says

وقت المغرب والعشاء للمختار ما بين غروب الشمس (أو المغرب) و نصف الليل

Source: http://www.rohani.ir/ar/idetail/2802/هل--ن--وقت-صلاة-المغرب-و-العشا--ممتد-ال---ذان-الفج

On the Farsi website, it says

گاهاً حدود 15دقیقه تا اذان مغرب، زمان هست، که به غروب آفتاب مشهور است. حال زمان افطار، غروب آفتاب است یا اذان مغرب؟

جواب: باسمه جلت اسمائه - به فتوای من زمان افطار غروب آفتاب است ولی مقتضای احتیاط این است که تا مغرب صبر کنید

Basically implying it is Ihtiyat Mustahabb to wait (not necessary). Source: http://www.rohani.ir/fa/idetail/977/زمان-افطار--غروب-آفتاب-است-یا-اذان-مغرب-

Brother what you have written above is highly misleading. 

Obviously everybody you quoted above has said it is ihtiyat (xyz) to wait till the redness is passed overhead. Not what you implied above “contemporary ulema suggest the Maghreb time to be same as Sunni time”.

Also none said anything about fast open time but you have again implied on your own that they do. Again please see your quotes above. 

Also the bold text in parenthesis, again you added your own Fatwa, marja in fact implied totally opposite. 

I appogize in advance if I misunderstood..

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On 5/30/2018 at 8:38 AM, Irfani313 said:

I appogize in advance if I misunderstood..

How is it misleading? This is a very popular discussion in Fiqh in which there exists difference of opinon and these are the views of the scholars on it (who say Maghrib time is sunset rather than redness disappearing). Some of the views are popularly known to be of these Maraji'. 

I think you may have misunderstood because you aren't familiar that when a jurist gives a Fatwa (prayers time is sunset) and then says an Ihtiyat after it (wait until the redness disappears), it means that the ruling of waiting is Ihtiyat Mustahabb (not Wajib).

Wasalam

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^ exatly the point. It would be highly unreasonable to highlight the part of the quotation of the marajae without highlighting the “ihtiyat” part. Otherwise why would they mention “ihtiyat” and would leave it open for you and I to do otherwise?

Kindly see your quoted opinions of marajae and Farsi and Arabic..

Also not adding the opinion of Sistani among the “contemporary” ulema who majority of Shia follow is misleading in itself.

Again my apologies if I’ve misunderstood-

w’salam 

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On 5/30/2018 at 9:00 AM, Irfani313 said:

^ exatly the point. It would be highly unreasonable to highlight the part of the quotation of the marajae without highlighting the “ihtiyat” part. Otherwise why would they mention “ihtiyat” and would leave it open for you and I to do otherwise?

Because the ihtiyat is not Ihtiyat Wajib, it is Ihtiyat Mustahabb. The person in the thread asked if there are any scholars that allow one to open their fast at Sunni time and I said these are the contemporary jurists who have a Fatwa saying you can open it at sunset (i.e. Sunni time). The ihtiyat mustahabb at that point is just a personal preference if you want to wait and gain extra reward. Also Sayyid Sistani's view was irrelevant because I wasn't citing the opinion of those who say it is Ihtiyat Wajib to wait (as it is seen in ruling 743 you quoted, he says obligatory precaution).

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On 5/25/2018 at 3:07 PM, Rayhana80 said:

Asalam-o-Alaikum 

Can we break fast at Sunni maghrib time? Or can we do maghrib at Sunni time and break fast right after? It’s recommended to pray before breaking your fast.. According to the ruling, it’s not obligatory to wait for the redness in the sky to go away, just as a precaution we can wait few more minutes after Sunni maghrib prayers. Can anyone explain please? 

Why do you want to break a fast on sunni time? 

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Is there any evidence that the prophet and companions waited 10 minutes after sunset to open his fast?  I was always told that we fast from dawn till sunset.  Not till 10 minutes after sunset.

I see no problem in breaking one's fast with Sunnis.  My approach is basically this: 

00:00 - sunset
00:01 - break fast
00:02 - magrib
00:05 - eat

If you're at home, do whatever you feel is right.  If you're with Sunnis, eat and pray with them.

That's my view, I cite no supporting opinion from a scholar to back it up.

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On 5/30/2018 at 2:20 PM, Ron_Burgundy said:

Why do you want to break a fast on sunni time? 

 

On 5/30/2018 at 9:05 AM, Ibn al-Hussain said:

Because the ihtiyat is not Ihtiyat Wajib, it is Ihtiyat Mustahabb. The person in the thread asked if there are any scholars that allow one to open their fast at Sunni time and I said these are the contemporary jurists who have a Fatwa saying you can open it at sunset (i.e. Sunni time). The ihtiyat mustahabb at that point is just a personal preference if you want to wait and gain extra reward. Also Sayyid Sistani's view was irrelevant because I wasn't citing the opinion of those who say it is Ihtiyat Wajib to wait (as it is seen in ruling 743 you quoted, he says obligatory precaution).

That is exactly what I have understood from sistani ruling it’s an obligatory  precaution, doesn’t really mean its wajib. Fadlullah also says it’s recommended and not wajib. We can break fast a sunset. Isn’t it?

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On 6/1/2018 at 7:56 AM, Rayhana80 said:

That is exactly what I have understood from sistani ruling it’s an obligatory  precaution, doesn’t really mean its wajib. Fadlullah also says it’s recommended and not wajib. We can break fast a sunset. Isn’t it?

Ihtiyat Wajib (obligatory precaution) means you have to follow it, but you also have the option to refer to the next most-learned Marja' if you want. If you do not choose to refer to the next most-learned Marja' then you have to follow whatever the ruling is for the obligatory precaution.

Wasalam

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All of those who jumped to conclusions, as you aware Ibn al-Hussain knows Arabic, Farsi, and has studied at the Islamic Seminary in Qom for many, many years? Forget this basic issue, read his blog and realise how we all - me included without doubt- are blown out of the water compared to what he knows and the authority he has - as well as reliability when he says these things.

Even so, in this first post he explained everything pretty well. This isn't someone like me coming in and posting traditions where we might suspect. 

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On 6/4/2018 at 12:24 PM, Rayhana80 said:

Just curious. A lot of my Sunni friends say that we can. 

Na, I was in your same position.. sorry to say you have to repeat your fasts if you did (according to Ayt.Khamanei and sistani). 

On 6/4/2018 at 1:35 PM, Ron_Burgundy said:

Can't they wait 10 more mins for you?

he/she is hiding their shiism from their family...

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9 minutes ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Can't they wait 10 more mins for you?

No, it gets makrooh for them if they wait a few minutes.  I remember once being in a middle of a surgery and it was iftaar time and suddenly a well meaning doctor barges into the operating room and quickly pulls down everyone's masks and starts shoving dates down our throats lest the roza goes makruh.lol. 

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1 minute ago, starlight said:

No, it gets makrooh for them if they wait a few minutes.  I remember once being in a middle of a surgery and it was iftaar time and suddenly a well meaning doctor barges into the operating room and quickly pulls down everyone's masks and starts shoving dates down our throats lest the roza goes makruh.lol. 

I know and they are stupid. I remember when I was living in Pakistan, it was cloudy outside and about maghrib time. I was busying samoosa, and in a nearby mosque, they tapped on the mic and started to announce something, and everyone near we went crazy and started stuffing stuff in their mouth because they thought he was going to give adhan. 

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15 hours ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Can't they wait 10 more mins for you?

That’s what I wanted to know. If we can then why can’t we?? What’s wrong in that? Fadlullah say we can clearly and we don’t need to wait for the redness in the sky to go away .. disappearance of the sun from the horizon is the only criteria. Whereas Sistani say as an obligatory precaution we have to wait. So now you can see clearly, none of them denying the fact but just asking you to wait because it is recommended, it won’t invalidate your fast. I don’t know why people make it a big deal! If it’s maghrib time we can break fast, nothing is wrong in it. We all are confused and make things complicated. I wonder which sect our Prophet (PBUH) followed, whether it was Sunni, Shia, wahabi, barelvi etc etc . 

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On 6/4/2018 at 1:44 PM, abuhaydar said:

Na, I was in your same position.. sorry to say you have to repeat your fasts if you did (according to Ayt.Khamanei and sistani). 

he/she is hiding their shiism from their family...

Hiding??? What?? why would I? How did you come to that conclusion? Stop being too presumptuous. Now here u are slandering me of being ashamed of my faith and belief. What is there to hide in Shiasm? I am a proud Shia. Go get a life and don’t respond to my thread please. 

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14 hours ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

I know and they are stupid. I remember when I was living in Pakistan, it was cloudy outside and about maghrib time. I was busying samoosa, and in a nearby mosque, they tapped on the mic and started to announce something, and everyone near we went crazy and started stuffing stuff in their mouth because they thought he was going to give adhan. 

It is highly recommended to pray maghrib asap and then break your fast right away. I go to this imambargah where they pray maghrib first then have half an hour lecture then do Isha then after 45 minutes they break their fast. Where on earth does it say that you have to wait that long?? 

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6 minutes ago, Rayhana80 said:

It is highly recommended to pray maghrib asap and then break your fast right away. I go to this imambargah where they pray maghrib first then have half an hour lecture then do Isha then after 45 minutes they break their fast. Where on earth does it say that you have to wait that long?? 

Perhaps they are trying to impress their God with their patience. It is better to offer the maghrib prayers and break fast then offer isha prayers.

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On 5/25/2018 at 3:07 PM, Rayhana80 said:

Can we break fast at Sunni maghrib time?

As per our fiqh, No. 

As per your own choice, you can break anytime you want. If you chose to break your fast with sunni's, don't forget to offer taraweeh prayers with them too :)

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17 hours ago, Rayhana80 said:

Hiding??? What?? why would I? How did you come to that conclusion? Stop being too presumptuous. Now here u are slandering me of being ashamed of my faith and belief. What is there to hide in Shiasm? I am a proud Shia. Go get a life and don’t respond to my thread please. 

omg chill.... I misunderstood jeez... I read sirius brights comment and thought it was yours...

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