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There is verse 5:55 the tafseer of that refers imam Ali as as Wali of believers, while Allah swt and the prophet Muhammad saaw are also Walli of the believers.

Some scholars mention it is permissible to ask Imam Ali AS for help keeping in mind that he is Wali and waseela towards  Allah swt. Asking help of Allah swt through intermediary is not against the quran

Edited by skyweb1987

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22 hours ago, Dr ali mahota said:

Can we seek help from waseela like saying ya Ali as madad as in quran Allah says so many times that He is the only who helps 

Guide me

If you have ever asked anyone for help, then you should know the answer to this question brother.

You rely on Allah as the Only God. Saying g Ya Ali Madan does not mean you are making Ali God so no problem.

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1 hour ago, ShiaMan14 said:

If you have ever asked anyone for help, then you should know the answer to this question brother.

You rely on Allah as the Only God. Saying g Ya Ali Madan does not mean you are making Ali God so no problem.

This makes the assumption that Imam Ali AS can actually help and make a difference here and now. I have seen no evidence of this.

Im not saying they are dead and lost, Im saying is there any evidence that the martyred or dead can have any impact on us living ones?

 

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1 hour ago, iraqi_shia said:

This makes the assumption that Imam Ali AS can actually help and make a difference here and now. I have seen no evidence of this.

Of course it makes that assumption (that Imam Ali can help) otherwise it would be pointless to say it.

He asked if it is permissible to call upon anyone other than Allah. Yes it is.

1 hour ago, iraqi_shia said:

Im not saying they are dead and lost, Im saying is there any evidence that the martyred or dead can have any impact on us living ones?

Seen Allah?

Seen Imam Mahdi (as)?

Edited by ShiaMan14

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On 5/24/2018 at 3:11 PM, iraqi_shia said:

Im not saying they are dead and lost, Im saying is there any evidence that the martyred or dead can have any impact on us living ones?

And 

News Code: 4918611
Group: Web browsing »Web browsing
Release Date: July 30, 2014 - 22:00

Martyr who signed his daughter's exam after his testimony! + Document
The next day, when I was ready to go to school, I caught my eye on it, an internal sensation told me to look at that sheet. Looking at it with curiosity. I saw ...
Born in 1323 and at the time of the martyrdom (1363), he was 40 years old, according to the report of the Shahid Salihi Khansari News Agency. He was already a tailor and then earned money from the clergy. He was a student of Ayatollah Saeedi and he was in Hosseiniyeh Khansarahi on the Tehran Air Force Street and was responsible for the mobilization of this base. He was martyred by the counter-revolutionary agents in Kurdistan on December 11, 1993, and buried in the fourth quarter of the fifth row in the Qom mosque. What follows is an adventure from the language of this martyr girl:

After my father's funeral in Tehran ended, my mother returned to Qom, who was living in this city, and went to Khansar with my grandfather, aged 15, to attend the funeral that my father's relatives had given. I was 12 years old with my three siblings and my younger brother, with my aunt and my mother's friend, so that our mother would return from Khwansar to Qom.

The atmosphere of grief and sadness and cry dominated our home. My sisters who were 1/5 and 4 years old were crying regularly. Near the evening of fron underground, we heard the voice of  Quran reading for a few minutes.

We went to the underground of home with fear and anxiety with the aunt and friend of mine while we were crying out of hearing this sound. The weather was dark and added to our anxiety. Everywhere we got disturbed, but we did not see anything. My father's Quran's recitation sounded two or three times, and we cried heavily each and every time. Every time we went back to the underground, we did not receive anything. The last time we saw the underground, we saw the house.

It turned out that after leaving my mother someone did not. We closed the door and we continued crying. On the eve of that day, when I came home from school, the school officials praised my father for the same day and praised him and gave me a third-part exams and told me to confirm this letter to your mother.

That night, before bedtime, I was wondering how tomorrow I would hand over this leaflet to the school with the testimony of my father and the absence of my mother, who had gone to Khwansar. I fell asleep at this point. In my dad, I saw my dad coming home with the same cloth . As usual, he always spoke to her family, warmed  with little children and hugged them up and kissed them.

I asked him: did you eat lunch? Said: I have not been eating . When I asked to go to the kitchen and prepare a meal for him, he once said: Zahra, I will sign it on the plate. I did not remember the exam's  page: Which sheet? My father said: the same that you have been given at school today to be signed. Suddenly I remembered the event. I got it out of my bag and gave it to my dad.

I searched for a pen. My father's habit was that he did not write with the red pen  at all, but I had  red pen in  my hand. I finally got a black pen and gave it to my dad. He took me the pen and wrote on the margin of the paper: "I am satisfied and signed alongside it."

After my father signed the letter, I went to the kitchen to bring food for him, but when I returned with food, I saw that he was not in the room. I rushed to the courtyard of the house, and I saw that the garden, as always, would love to work in the garden. I asked: what are you doing? He said: "The holiday is near and I have to give it to this garden." After that, I saw my father at one time.

I rushed and rushed everywhere from the bottom to the upper rooms, but my father was not. I cried a lot why my father went. I woke up from this cry and noise and groaning. The next day, when I was ready to go to school, I caught my eye on it, an internal sensation told me to look at that sheet. Looking at it with curiosity. I saw that I wrote with  red line on my father's line, "I am pleased," and below is my father's permanent signature.

After this, one of my father's friends, Mr. Farzaneh, who heard the story but did not believe it, came to our house one day, and when he was affected, he said: "I saw your father in a dream that told me three times: Farzaneh You doubt, stay in your room until the Day of Judgment!

Of the other strange events that preceded my 40th birthday in the early days of 1363, it was a strange man whom we did not know but said that he had come to our house with our father's friendship history and said: "When I heard the signature of your father, I said that if this is true, this martyr should heal his son, who was paralyzed  during the war, as a sign of the integrity of the incident. He cried and said, "After this, my son was healed." He brought his son, a young man, twenty years old, to our home with us.

How many times did my mother sleep my dad? My father had emphasized him in his sleep, and there was no doubt about the fact that I signed Zahra's letter.

The picture of signature is available at end of article

https://www.yjc.ir/fa/news/4918611/شهیدی-که-بعد-از-شهادتش-برنامه-امتحانی-دخترش-را-امضاء-کرد-سند

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11 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Of course it makes that assumption (that Imam Ali can help) otherwise it would be pointless to say it.

He asked if it is permissible to call upon anyone other than Allah. Yes it is.

Seen Allah?

Seen Imam Mahdi (as)?

I didnt say about seeing. Seeing is not the only form of evidence. For example I believe in God, not because I have "seen" him , but because of the evidence of his existence. 

I asked for evidence, eg One day the Prophet was walking and he called out to a dead prophet to help him. 

We just dont see such statements, at least I havent.

11 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

And
 

News Code: 4918611
Group: Web browsing »Web browsing
Release Date: July 30, 2014 - 22:00

Martyr who signed his daughter's exam after his testimony! + Document
The next day, when I was ready to go to school, I caught my eye on it, an internal sensation told me to look at that sheet. Looking at it with curiosity. I saw ...
Born in 1323 and at the time of the martyrdom (1363), he was 40 years old, according to the report of the Shahid Salihi Khansari News Agency. He was already a tailor and then earned money from the clergy. He was a student of Ayatollah Saeedi and he was in Hosseiniyeh Khansarahi on the Tehran Air Force Street and was responsible for the mobilization of this base. He was martyred by the counter-revolutionary agents in Kurdistan on December 11, 1993, and buried in the fourth quarter of the fifth row in the Qom mosque. What follows is an adventure from the language of this martyr girl:
 

After my father's funeral in Tehran ended, my mother returned to Qom, who was living in this city, and went to Khansar with my grandfather, aged 15, to attend the funeral that my father's relatives had given. I was 12 years old with my three siblings and my younger brother, with my aunt and my mother's friend, so that our mother would return from Khwansar to Qom.


The atmosphere of grief and sadness and cry dominated our home. My sisters who were 1/5 and 4 years old were crying regularly. Near the evening of fron underground, we heard the voice of  Quran reading for a few minutes.


We went to the underground of home with fear and anxiety with the aunt and friend of mine while we were crying out of hearing this sound. The weather was dark and added to our anxiety. Everywhere we got disturbed, but we did not see anything. My father's Quran's recitation sounded two or three times, and we cried heavily each and every time. Every time we went back to the underground, we did not receive anything. The last time we saw the underground, we saw the house.


It turned out that after leaving my mother someone did not. We closed the door and we continued crying. On the eve of that day, when I came home from school, the school officials praised my father for the same day and praised him and gave me a third-part exams and told me to confirm this letter to your mother.


That night, before bedtime, I was wondering how tomorrow I would hand over this leaflet to the school with the testimony of my father and the absence of my mother, who had gone to Khwansar. I fell asleep at this point. In my dad, I saw my dad coming home with the same cloth . As usual, he always spoke to her family, warmed  with little children and hugged them up and kissed them.

 

I asked him: did you eat lunch? Said: I have not been eating . When I asked to go to the kitchen and prepare a meal for him, he once said: Zahra, I will sign it on the plate. I did not remember the exam's  page: Which sheet? My father said: the same that you have been given at school today to be signed. Suddenly I remembered the event. I got it out of my bag and gave it to my dad.


I searched for a pen. My father's habit was that he did not write with the red pen  at all, but I had  red pen in  my hand. I finally got a black pen and gave it to my dad. He took me the pen and wrote on the margin of the paper: "I am satisfied and signed alongside it."


After my father signed the letter, I went to the kitchen to bring food for him, but when I returned with food, I saw that he was not in the room. I rushed to the courtyard of the house, and I saw that the garden, as always, would love to work in the garden. I asked: what are you doing? He said: "The holiday is near and I have to give it to this garden." After that, I saw my father at one time.

 

I rushed and rushed everywhere from the bottom to the upper rooms, but my father was not. I cried a lot why my father went. I woke up from this cry and noise and groaning. The next day, when I was ready to go to school, I caught my eye on it, an internal sensation told me to look at that sheet. Looking at it with curiosity. I saw that I wrote with  red line on my father's line, "I am pleased," and below is my father's permanent signature.


After this, one of my father's friends, Mr. Farzaneh, who heard the story but did not believe it, came to our house one day, and when he was affected, he said: "I saw your father in a dream that told me three times: Farzaneh You doubt, stay in your room until the Day of Judgment!


Of the other strange events that preceded my 40th birthday in the early days of 1363, it was a strange man whom we did not know but said that he had come to our house with our father's friendship history and said: "When I heard the signature of your father, I said that if this is true, this martyr should heal his son, who was paralyzed  during the war, as a sign of the integrity of the incident. He cried and said, "After this, my son was healed." He brought his son, a young man, twenty years old, to our home with us.


How many times did my mother sleep my dad? My father had emphasized him in his sleep, and there was no doubt about the fact that I signed Zahra's letter.

The picture of signature is available at end of article

https://www.yjc.ir/fa/news/4918611/شهیدی-که-بعد-از-شهادتش-برنامه-امتحانی-دخترش-را-امضاء-کرد-سند

 

Is a nice story, but is not religious evidence.

For example, when our Aimma AS were facing battles or serious challenges, did they call on another Imam AS? 

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12 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Brother can you please upload few videos of miracles occurred at the shrines of Imams like Imam Ali AS, Imam Hussain AS and Imam Reza As?

I know there are many on net.

Edited by skyweb1987

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1 hour ago, iraqi_shia said:

I didnt say about seeing. Seeing is not the only form of evidence. For example I believe in God, not because I have "seen" him , but because of the evidence of his existence. 

I asked for evidence, eg One day the Prophet was walking and he called out to a dead prophet to help him. 

We just dont see such statements, at least I havent.

Is a nice story, but is not religious evidence.

For example, when our Aimma AS were facing battles or serious challenges, did they call on another Imam AS? 

The intercession  of the Amir of the Believers to the Messenger of Allah (PBUH), the angels and Prophets: (Authentic Document)After doing the noon prayers Amir(as) to the Messenger of Allah (PBUH),  belied the angels and prophets and sought to approach to Allah through  them. The late Kulaini has given the authentic narrative this way:

الكليني الرازي، أبو جعفر محمد بن يعقوب بن إسحاق (متوفاى328 هـ)، الأصول من الكافي، ج2 ، ص545، ناشر: اسلاميه‏، تهران‏، الطبعة الثانية،1362 هـ.ش.

مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عِيسَى عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ الْبَرْقِيِّ عَنْ عِيسَى بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ الْقُمِّيِّ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ عليه السلام قَالَ: كَانَ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ عليه السلام يَقُولُ إِذَا فَرَغَ مِنَ الزَّوَالِ- اللَّهُمَّ إِنِّي أَتَقَرَّبُ إِلَيْكَ بِجُودِكَ وَ كَرَمِكَ وَ أَتَقَرَّبُ إِلَيْكَ- بِمُحَمَّدٍ عَبْدِكَ وَ رَسُولِكَ وَ أَتَقَرَّبُ إِلَيْكَ بِمَلَائِكَتِكَ الْمُقَرَّبِينَ وَ أَنْبِيَائِكَ الْمُرْسَلِين‏ ‏...

Imam Sadiq (as) said: Imam Ali (as), after the end of the noon prayer, he reads this prayer: O God, we approach to you by your lavish and grace, approaching to you by the right of Muhammad (who is your servant and your messenger ) And we ask approach by  the angels and the send messengers .

مرحوم علامه مجلسي در تصحيح روايت فوق مي‌فرمايد:

باب الدعاء في أدبار الصلوات الحديث الأول: حسن كالصحيح.

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-234-may-my-father-and-my-mother-shed-their-lives-you

When the second night arrived, the second time he (Imam hussain (as) )went to the grave of the Prophet (PBUH) and prayed for two Rak'ats. When he graduated from prayer, he said: "O God, this grave of your prophet is Muhammad, and I am his son, and what you yourself know for me. Has happened. O God, I love the famous and I'm disappointed. O master of glory and honor, to the right of this grave and the one in whom it is buried, I ask you what Will satisfy you. ...

متن روايت به نقل علامه مجلسي اين است:

فلما كانت الليلة الثانية ، خرج إلى القبر أيضا وصلى ركعات ، فلما فرغ من صلاته جعل يقول : اللهم هذا قبر نبيك محمد ، وأنا ابن بنت نبيك ، وقد حضرني من الأمر ما قد علمت ، اللهم إني أحب المعروف ، وأنكر المنكر ، وأنا أسألك يا ذا الجلال والاكرام بحق القبر ومن فيه إلا اخترت لي ما هو لك رضى ، ولرسولك رضى ....

المجلسي، محمد باقر (متوفاى1111هـ)، بحار الأنوار الجامعة لدرر أخبار الأئمة الأطهار، ج 44 ، ص 328، تحقيق: محمد الباقر البهبودي، ناشر: مؤسسة الوفاء - بيروت - لبنان، الطبعة: الثانية المصححة، 1403هـ - 1983م.

اين روايت را ابن اعثم كوفي نيز نقل كرده است.

الكوفي، أبي محمد أحمد بن أعثم (متوفاى314هـ)، كتاب الفتوح، ج 5، ص 19، تحقيق: علي شيري (ماجستر في التاريخ الإسلامي )، ناشر: دار الأضواء للطباعة والنشر والتوزيع ـ بيروت، الطبعة: الأولى، 1411هـ

http://www.valiasr-aj.com/persian/shownews.php?idnews=6905

 

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17 hours ago, skyweb1987 said:

Brother can you please upload few videos of miracles occurred at the shrines of Imams like Imam Ali AS, Imam Hussain AS and Imam Reza As?

I know there are many on net.

Blind girl her eyes healed in shrine of Imam Hussain (as) 

Martyr Hamid Chandani (Sunni) healing from cancer in JamKaran converting to Shia 

Miracles of Ahlulbayt (as) (Farsi & Arabic)

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16 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Blind girl her eyes healed in shrine of Imam Hussain (as) 

Martyr Hamid Chandani (Sunni) healing from cancer in JamKaran converting to Shia 

Miracles of Ahlulbayt (as) (Farsi & Arabic)

These are evidences for the followers and lover of the family of the prophet ssaw that they can make miracles for the betterment of their followers with the permission granted  them by Allah swt.

Only those deny the truth  they keep their eyes closed.

wasalam

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There are countless "miracle" videos from other faiths too--particularly Catholics. My parents tell me that similar things happen in Ajmer, India at the shrine of Moinuddin Chisti. Has Moinuddin Chisti been delegated the same healing powers as Imam Reza (as)? It is simply just foolish to rely on those for faith.

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13 hours ago, 786:) said:

There are countless "miracle" videos from other faiths too--particularly Catholics. My parents tell me that similar things happen in Ajmer, India at the shrine of Moinuddin Chisti. Has Moinuddin Chisti been delegated the same healing powers as Imam Reza (as)? It is simply just foolish to rely on those for faith.

Yes, true.

I was trying to point out that this isnt evidence, but I seemed to hit a brick wall.

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On 5/24/2018 at 12:09 AM, Dr ali mahota said:

Can we seek help from waseela like saying ya Ali as madad as in quran Allah says so many times that He is the only who helps 

Guide me

:bismillah:

Surah An-Naml, Verse 62:
أَمَّن يُجِيبُ الْمُضْطَرَّ إِذَا دَعَاهُ وَيَكْشِفُ السُّوءَ وَيَجْعَلُكُمْ خُلَفَاءَ الْأَرْضِ أَإِلَٰهٌ مَّعَ اللَّهِ قَلِيلًا مَّا تَذَكَّرُونَ

Or, Who answers the distressed one when he calls upon Him and removes the evil, and He will make you successors in the earth. Is there a god with Allah? Little is it that you mind!
(English - Shakir)

As a general belief, we testify there is no god but Allah. It is always good & correct way to ask help from Allah (s.w.t). None of our Imams taught us to ask help from them, instead they all taught us to ask help from Allah (s.w.t).  

To understand the meaning of "Ya Ali Madad" you need to understand the "haqeeqat e Alawiyyah" (reality of Ali). Those who say it are ñot actually calling for his help rather they just remember him as the helper of Prophet (S) and Allah (s.w.t).

A person whose dhikr has been declared as worship of Allah by Allah's Apostle, viewing his face is like worshiping Allah. How would be that person! Who is famous as Yadullah, Ainullah, Wajhullah etc. 

These blessed personalities are the "wasilah" of Allah (s.w.t).  

Edited by Salsabeel

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Another general belief of all Muslims is that it is Allah (s.w.t) who grants "shifa" to us when we got sick. 

Yet every Muslim takes the help of Doctor instead of asking directly from Allah for shifa. It is not shirk when we strive to seek the means where Allah has placed shifa for us. 

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7 hours ago, iraqi_shia said:

I didnt say about seeing. Seeing is not the only form of evidence. For example I believe in God, not because I have "seen" him , but because of the evidence of his existence. 

Ever read Dua Tawassul?

7 hours ago, iraqi_shia said:

I asked for evidence, eg One day the Prophet was walking and he called out to a dead prophet to help him. 

We just dont see such statements, at least I havent.

The Prophet (saw) was the Prophet over all prophets. He has no need to call upon them. Plus he had Imam Ali (as) by his side so even less of a reason to call on past prophets.

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13 hours ago, 786:) said:

There are countless "miracle" videos from other faiths too--particularly Catholics. My parents tell me that similar things happen in Ajmer, India at the shrine of Moinuddin Chisti. Has Moinuddin Chisti been delegated the same healing powers as Imam Reza (as)? It is simply just foolish to rely on those for faith.

The answer is no. but Imam Reza as has certainly more affiliation and healing powers with permission  of Allah swt than him being the 8th imam

Moin-udin chisti is a saint and he has lineage with Imam Ali AS. You seem to deny miracles of imams and  the saints from the  lineage of Imam Ali AS like extremist sunnis / wahabis. 

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9 hours ago, skyweb1987 said:

The answer is no. but Imam Reza as has certainly more affiliation and healing powers with permission  of Allah swt than him being the 8th imam

Moin-udin chisti is a saint and he has lineage with Imam Ali AS. You seem to deny miracles of imams and  the saints from the  lineage of Imam Ali AS like extremist sunnis / wahabis. 

And the Christian will argue Jesus has more healing powers. Then what? 8th Imam has more affiliation than him too? I am sure you are of that opinion, but my point is why are we fighting over petty issues. It is probably best practice to ask only from Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى as the Quran repeatedly stresses. There are more solid and clear proofs for asking only from Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى than there are for Ya Ali Madad or Ya Reza Madad (if any). This may sound wahhabist to you, but that is simply fact. 

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15 hours ago, 786:) said:

And the Christian will argue Jesus has more healing powers. Then what? 8th Imam has more affiliation than him too? I am sure you are of that opinion, but my point is why are we fighting over petty issues. It is probably best practice to ask only from Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى as the Quran repeatedly stresses. There are more solid and clear proofs for asking only from Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى than there are for Ya Ali Madad or Ya Reza Madad (if any). This may sound wahhabist to you, but that is simply fact. 

1. If you are a Muslim can you prove more power of Jesus than the prophet Muhamamd saaw from quran and hadith? (As i am not discussing the matter with Christian here).

2.  I am just discussing not fighting presenting the other side  that provides the truth instead of extremist sunni / wahabi propaganda.

3.  Quran does ask to make your prayers to Allah swt and through the intermediary which is called tawassal and it is permitted in the light of quran and hadith from sunni and shia

4.  Tawasal  is considered unlawful by wahabi (extremist sunnis) because of political reasons to blame other muslims just for nothing but it is permitted in the light of verses of quran and hadith: I quote from ahle sunna website the link is given below:

http://www.ahlus-sunna.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=57

5. Just to quote as evidence that the help getting from others with permission from Allah is not against the verses of quran. I here quote the evidences:

قَدْ فَرَضَ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ تَحِلَّةَ أَيْمَانِكُمْ ۚ وَاللَّهُ مَوْلَاكُمْ ۖ وَهُوَ الْعَلِيمُ الْحَكِيمُ

Shakir: Allah indeed has sanctioned for you the expiation of your oaths and Allah is your Protector, and He is the Knowing the Wise. (66:2)

إِن تَتُوبَا إِلَى اللَّهِ فَقَدْ صَغَتْ قُلُوبُكُمَا ۖ وَإِن تَظَاهَرَا عَلَيْهِ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ مَوْلَاهُ وَجِبْرِيلُ وَصَالِحُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ۖ وَالْمَلَائِكَةُ بَعْدَ ذَٰلِكَ ظَهِيرٌ

If you both turn to Allah, then indeed your hearts are already inclined (to this); and if you back up each other against him, then surely Allah it is Who is his Guardian, and Jibreel and -the believers that do good, and the angels after that are the aiders. (66:4)

6. Do you consider  a son asking help from his father is against the verses of quran as per wahabi thought?

Wasalam

 

Edited by skyweb1987

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On 5/25/2018 at 4:39 PM, Salsabeel said:

:bismillah:

Surah An-Naml, Verse 62:
أَمَّن يُجِيبُ الْمُضْطَرَّ إِذَا دَعَاهُ وَيَكْشِفُ السُّوءَ وَيَجْعَلُكُمْ خُلَفَاءَ الْأَرْضِ أَإِلَٰهٌ مَّعَ اللَّهِ قَلِيلًا مَّا تَذَكَّرُونَ

Or, Who answers the distressed one when he calls upon Him and removes the evil, and He will make you successors in the earth. Is there a god with Allah? Little is it that you mind!
(English - Shakir)

As a general belief, we testify there is no god but Allah. It is always good & correct way to ask help from Allah (s.w.t). None of our Imams taught us to ask help from them, instead they all taught us to ask help from Allah (s.w.t).  

To understand the meaning of "Ya Ali Madad" you need to understand the "haqeeqat e Alawiyyah" (reality of Ali). Those who say it are ñot actually calling for his help rather they just remember him as the helper of Prophet (S) and Allah (s.w.t).

A person whose dhikr has been declared as worship of Allah by Allah's Apostle, viewing his face is like worshiping Allah. How would be that person! Who is famous as Yadullah, Ainullah, Wajhullah etc. 

These blessed personalities are the "wasilah" of Allah (s.w.t).  

Ok, but how many who are actually saying it, think like this?

I think very few.

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On 5/25/2018 at 5:30 PM, Salsabeel said:

Another general belief of all Muslims is that it is Allah (s.w.t) who grants "shifa" to us when we got sick. 

Yet every Muslim takes the help of Doctor instead of asking directly from Allah for shifa. It is not shirk when we strive to seek the means where Allah has placed shifa for us. 

This is because the doctor is alive and there to help.

What im questioning, is that can the dead impact the living? I have not seen any evidence of this. So I am asking if there is any evidence, and if there is not, they why ask someone can not help in their current state?

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On 5/25/2018 at 5:40 PM, ShiaMan14 said:

Ever read Dua Tawassul?

 

Yes, and I think we already had this conversation. Dua tawasual is not asking the Aimmah or prophets etc, its directed to God,

اَللَّهُمَّ إِنِّي اسْالُكَ = O Allah, I beseech Thee

 

thats how it starts. 

It doesn't go "O Ali, I ask you", etc.

 

Also dua tawasul is asking for intercession on the day of judgement, when they can influence things. The phrase we say on congregation

 

يَا وَجِيهاً عِنْدَ ٱللَّهِ

إِشْفَعْ لَنَا عِنْدَ ٱللَّهِ

 

I really see no evidence for saying "Ya Ali help me with this task" etc. 

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On 5/27/2018 at 6:05 AM, iraqi_shia said:

Ok, but how many who are actually saying it, think like this?

I think very few.

Every twelver shia knows him in that capacity. None of us knows him as god.

On 5/27/2018 at 6:07 AM, iraqi_shia said:

What im questioning, is that can the dead impact the living?

Are they dead? Or are they are enjoying the "hayatan tayyebatan" as mentioned in the verse below?

Surah An-Nahl, Verse 97:
مَنْ عَمِلَ صَالِحًا مِّن ذَكَرٍ أَوْ أُنثَىٰ وَهُوَ مُؤْمِنٌ فَلَنُحْيِيَنَّهُ حَيَاةً طَيِّبَةً وَلَنَجْزِيَنَّهُمْ أَجْرَهُم بِأَحْسَنِ مَا كَانُوا يَعْمَلُونَ

Whoever does good whether male or female and he is a believer, We will most certainly make him live a happy life, and We will most certainly give them their reward for the best of what they did.
(English - Shakir)

Let me know brother are you not take the help of Imam Ali (asws) and rest of Aimma e Tahireen (asws) in your daily life? Do you not follow or wish to follow their footsteps? How you understand the verses of Quran? 

Not only are they alive but their "sirat" & "seerat" are also alive and will remain alive In-sha Allah. Because they, within themselves, are sirat & sabeel of Allah (s.w.t).

It is difficult for many to understand how the dhikr of Ali (asws) becomes worship of Allah :).

So my brother, Ya Ali Madad is a slogan for remembering the helper of Allah & His Apostle. It is also a slogan to identify the nifaq within the heart of others. It is an acknowledgment of sermon of Ghadeer and acceptance of the command of Prophet (S) that Ali is our Mowla.

If this explanation, in your view, is absurd, I advise you to at least keep husn e dhan for your fellow mo'mineen.

Wassalam.

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On 5/27/2018 at 6:07 AM, iraqi_shia said:

This is because the doctor is alive and there to help.

And Allah???? Is He not alive & present everywhere to help?
الَّذِي خَلَقَنِي فَهُوَ يَهْدِينِ
وَالَّذِي هُوَ يُطْعِمُنِي وَيَسْقِينِ
وَإِذَا مَرِضْتُ فَهُوَ يَشْفِينِ

hidayat, sustenance & shifa all comes from Him. 

Why should one go to doctor & take his prescribed medicines?

:) I need your answer now.

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On 5/27/2018 at 7:49 AM, Salsabeel said:

Every twelver shia knows him in that capacity. None of us knows him as god.

Are they dead? Or are they are enjoying the "hayatan tayyebatan" as mentioned in the verse below?

Surah An-Nahl, Verse 97:
مَنْ عَمِلَ صَالِحًا مِّن ذَكَرٍ أَوْ أُنثَىٰ وَهُوَ مُؤْمِنٌ فَلَنُحْيِيَنَّهُ حَيَاةً طَيِّبَةً وَلَنَجْزِيَنَّهُمْ أَجْرَهُم بِأَحْسَنِ مَا كَانُوا يَعْمَلُونَ

Whoever does good whether male or female and he is a believer, We will most certainly make him live a happy life, and We will most certainly give them their reward for the best of what they did.
(English - Shakir)

Let me know brother are you not take the help of Imam Ali (asws) and rest of Aimma e Tahireen (asws) in your daily life? Do you not follow or wish to follow their footsteps? How you understand the verses of Quran? 

Not only are they alive but their "sirat" & "seerat" are also alive and will remain alive In-sha Allah. Because they, within themselves, are sirat & sabeel of Allah (s.w.t).

It is difficult for many to understand how the dhikr of Ali (asws) becomes worship of Allah :).

So my brother, Ya Ali Madad is a slogan for remembering the helper of Allah & His Apostle. It is also a slogan to identify the nifaq within the heart of others. It is an acknowledgment of sermon of Ghadeer and acceptance of the command of Prophet (S) that Ali is our Mowla.

If this explanation, in your view, is absurd, I advise you to at least keep husn e dhan for your fellow mo'mineen.

Wassalam.

Your answering a different question.

We need to define things here, when we say the martyrs are not "dead", obviously the are dead in the sense that their souls have left their body. They clearly are dead in that sense. However they are alive in the sense that they are having some other reality.

My question is this, that reality which they are experiencing, are they able and willing to interact with our existence?

I note that you give a meaning very different to the apparent meaning of the words of Ya Ali Madad. Ya Ali madad, means "o Ali help". Do we have any authentic narrations that suggest we do this? did any of the Imams AS call out in this way? 

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