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Salam,

within the western society that I live in, feminism has become the new craze and it seems everyone is identifying as a feminist. I am a female myself and of course, believe we as women deserve the same place in the workplace as men as well as the rights to make our own decisions. However to what extent does that go with Islamic beliefs?

Of course, a Muslim woman has her rights named by religion but since feminism revolves around men and women being equal, doesn't that go against Islamic thought?

I'm honestly not sure whether I want to identify as a feminist or not.

Please let me know your opinions!

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Islam gave women rights before half of this world gave women rights. Now a days women rights in West is very difficult and too overboard for example women in the West wanna be to able go to the beach without a bra because men go shirtless to the beach and they also want the right to dress how ever they want (in other words dress half nake). If I was in your position I wouldn’t really label myself just a feminist but a Muslim feminist. Women in the West want to basically act like men and specifically man hoers which is really disgusting for a girl and disgusting in general. 

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Why do you feel the need to stick labels on yourself in the first place? Just be a Muslim and that automatically encapsulates being a "feminist." You can explain to others who think you are oppressed that Islam views women as equal to men. We have differing roles but we both have the capability to reach the highest or lowest levels of humanity based on our actions. 

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[MOD NOTE: Mature subject matter. If you find a video offensive, turn it off. Report if necessary.]

Terror in Texas -the James Tumlinson case (warning to all families)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV8W0ZFswDA

The Bleeping NXIVM connection (*** cult)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf9RVamYDJo

Edited by Hameedeh
Mod Note

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On 5/22/2018 at 9:16 PM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam I watched them both videos they are not contains offensive video or image I just repeat titles of videos .

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I just find it so frustrating that a lot of people don't consider themselves feminist because they don't like how "radical modern feminism" is. Feminism is feminism. The dictionary definition of feminism is 'the belief that both genders should be treated equally'. So, surely, Islam is a feminist religion. If it isnt, then you're suggesting Islam teaches that the genders don't deserve equal rights in all sorts of things. It would suggest that Islam believes one gender is superior to another. 

People have radicalized Islam just like they have feminism. Terrorist groups like ISIS claim that Islam is founded upon the destruction of groups who don't agree with Islamic ideology. It preaches that islam allows the buying and selling of women for the pleasure of "the holy soldiers". Is that the belief of Islam? Of course not. Islam is a religion of peace etc. Does that mean we suddenly stop identifying as Muslim because terrorists like ISIS have radicalised our religion? No. We just live our lives as true Muslims and demonstrate to everyone else what true Islam is.

To suddenly give radical feminists all the power by rejecting the original meaning of feminism and allowing the radical feminists to mould that definition to benefit them is so counterproductive and hypocritical.  Why should we give any radicals of any group any sort of acknowledgement? 

Edited by Amira00

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Quote

"Islam and feminism go hand in hand because Islam recognizes women's rights!"

Ok, should we say that Islam and communism go hand in hand because Islam recognizes the rights of the poor?

Should we say that Islam and atheism go hand in hand because Islam recognizes that false gods do not exist?

Should we say that Islam and fascism go hand in hand because Islam recognizes the singular authority of one man, i.e., the Prophet ﷺ?

Should we say that Islam and Zionism go hand in hand because Islam recognizes that the holy land exists?

Should we say that Islam and Christianity go hand in hand because Islam recognizes that Jesus is the Messiah?

Should we say that Islam and Buddhism go hand in hand because Islam recognizes the importance of inner peace?

Should we say that Islam and perennialism go hand in hand because Islam recognizes that the Torah and Bible were sent by God?

Should we say that Islam and Confucianism go hand in hand because Islam recognizes the importance of respect for parents?

Should we say that Islam and animistic nature worship go hand in hand because Islam recognizes that within nature are signs of the Creator?

In all these examples, no serious Muslim would attach Islam to such ideologies. But in the case of feminism, you find many seemingly "traditional" figures and organizations enthusiastically co-opting feminism and claiming that it is fully "Islamic," even "traditional," etc.

Why the double standard?

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The fact that sayeda Zainab owned her own land, that Seyeda the Khadija was a businesswoman all proves that Islam is feminist. It promotes and believes in the equality of the sexes. If you claim that Islam is not feminist (believing in the equality of both sexes) it's probably the most ignorant statement you could make. 

 

Edited by Amira00

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@Amira00 The fact that Syeda Zainab (as) still asked for her husband's permission to accompany her brother on a journey and Hazrat Khadija(as) was totally obedient to her husband shows feminism in Islam differs from the feminist movement of the west. 

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3 minutes ago, starlight said:

@Amira00 The fact that Syeda Zainab (as) still asked for her husband's permission to accompany her brother on a journey and Hazrat Khadija(as) was totally obedient to her husband shows feminism in Islam differs from the feminist movement of the west. 

Okay, could you explain what feminism in Islam is then? What makes Islam feminist according to the actual definition? Not the radicalized idea of feminism.

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9 hours ago, Amira00 said:

The fact that sayeda Zainab owned her own land, that Seyeda the Khadija was a businesswoman all proves that Islam is feminist. It promotes and believes in the equality of the sexes. If you claim that Islam is not feminist (believing in the equality of both sexes) it's probably the most ignorant statement you could make. 

Islam does not promote uniformity between the sexes. There is most definitely a difference in the responsibilities, abilities and limitations imposed on each. How flexible these impositions may be can be debated - and is, among scholars - but that they exist cannot be denied. Though, of course, just as the slavery of the West is nothing like the slavery of Islam, the differences between men and women in Islam are not like the differences promulgated by Victorian men, for example.

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40 minutes ago, Amira00 said:

The advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes. 

As a dimorphic religion, Islam is more about equity than equality. It treats the sexes differently with the goal of justice. This is why different laws exist for marriage, warfare, inheritance, clothing, salat/fasting, and other areas. To say that the sexes are equal (like 1=1, 2=2) is to deny that they are distinct and have different needs. So looking at women's rights through the lens of what men can do is really an illusion.

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2 minutes ago, Khadim uz Zahra said:

Islam does not promote uniformity between the sexes. There is most definitely a difference in the responsibilities, abilities and limitations imposed on each. How flexible these impositions may be can be debated - and is, among scholars - but that they exist cannot be denied. Though, of course, just as the slavery of the West is nothing like the slavery of Islam, the difference in men and women in Islam is not like the differences promulgated by Victorian men, for example.

I agree. My point is that, Islam gives women rights. It doesn't make them inferior to men. Each sex has its own rights and responsibilities, but neither is restricted by them. For example, Sayeda Zainab still had to get permission from her husband to leave the house, but that didn't mean she couldn't own her own land. She was still indeoendant, her speach in muharram is a prime example of her independace.

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Just now, Amira00 said:

I agree. My point is that, Islam gives women rights. It doesn't make them inferior to men. Each sex has its own rights and responsibilities, but neither is restricted by them. For example, Sayeda Zainab still had to get permission from her husband to leave the house, but that didn't mean she couldn't own her own land. She was still indeoendant, her speach in muharram is a prime example of her independace.

Giving women rights is not the same as modern feminism, which requires women to be given exactly the same rights as men. That is a rather monumental difference.

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4 minutes ago, Qa'im said:

As a dimorphic religion, Islam is more about equity than equality. It treats the sexes differently with the goal of justice. This is why different laws exist for marriage, warfare, inheritance, clothing, salat/fasting, and other areas. To say that the sexes are equal (like 1=1, 2=2) is to deny that they are distinct and have different needs. So looking at women's rights through the lens of what men can do is really an illusion.

Is it really that much of an illusion though? Yes, men and women are physically different, but Islam (from what I know of) does not make one thing halal for one sex and haram for the other (other than the marrying out of Islam, mutliple wives etc). For example, a woman has the same capability as her male counterpart in a job in an office for example. A man can also cook, just as well as a woman. A man can raise his children just as well as his wife. 

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The idea of feminism in Islam is not a seperate 'ism or seperate 'movement'. It is enfolded within the idea of 'Haqq', sometimes translated as 'truth' or 'rights' but really there is no good word for word translation in English. The idea of Haqq is that everything in the universe, including every sentient creation has certain rights and has it's place in the order of creation. This is explained in one of the first books about Islamic Law, Resalat Al Huquq(Treaty of Haqq) by Imam Zain Al Abeddin(a.s). I suggest you look thru this to further understand the idea of Haqq. Here is the book

https://www.al-islam.org/treatise-rights-risalat-al-huquq-imam-zain-ul-abideen

At the pinnacle of sentient beings are human beings, because we have free will (i.e. we can choose whether to obey God or disobey). This includes both men and women. Women have their place in the pinnacle of creation, and they are thought of as human beings, just as a man is. If you look at the prevailing thought in 6th Century Arabia and probably anywhere in the world in the 6th century, women were not thought of as a human being with rights, but as property of her husband or a soulless creature. Islam never viewed women that way. They were viewed as fully human and with their rights (Haqq) from the beginning of the religion. If you look at the above book, you will see that most of these rights apply to women as well as men, and from that standpoint there is not much difference between the two. At the same time, women and men are not identical in their creation and there are a few areas in which the Haqq of men and the Haqq of women differ. I am not going to go over these areas in this post, because I think that goes beyond the scope of your question, but this is the general framework within which the Western idea of 'feminism' exists in Islam. 

IMHO, feminism was, at first, a reaction to the lack of Haqq (justice and rights) endured by women in Western society. Now that the vast majority of these lack of rights and justice have been addressed, both legally and culturally, I don't think it is relevant anymore. I think now what it has become is an attempt to 'turn the tables' and create a female dominated society, as opposed the male dominated society of the past. I think this is what is annoying to most women who don't consider themselves 'feminists'. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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The essay 'Islam versus Feminism' by Dr. Muhammad Legenhausen is the most erudite, thorough and comprehensive writing that I have read on the subject, and the arguments have been presented with a great intellectual depth.
Sharing it here so that the brothers and sisters may benefit from it. An immensely useful piece of writing.
https://www.al-islam.org/islam-versus-feminism-dr-muhammad-legenhausen

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5 hours ago, Amira00 said:

Is it really that much of an illusion though? Yes, men and women are physically different, but Islam (from what I know of) does not make one thing halal for one sex and haram for the other (other than the marrying out of Islam, mutliple wives etc). For example, a woman has the same capability as her male counterpart in a job in an office for example. A man can also cook, just as well as a woman. A man can raise his children just as well as his wife. 

You’re correct that in Islam, a mother has no shar’i obligation to cook, clean, or even breastfeed her children. She can even stipulate some of these things in her contract. She can work most of the same jobs as men. But the full equality pushed by feminists is one that would destroy Islamic ethics and law.

For example: As you know, the Quran obligates half the inheritance of men. Some Muslim feminists cry foul that women receive less inheritance than men. But they overlook that women receive a dower and men don’t, and women are entitled to some of her husband’s earnings, yet men don’t share that privilege.

So if we start chopping away at one gendered law, the logical conclusion would be to get rid of all gendered laws, and just adopt a liberal individualist approach to fiqh. This however would be unjust, because it does not address the different needs and abilities of the sexes. It also calls into question the infallibility of the revelation: if it needs updates every few years (and yes, feminism is a constantly changing ideology; there have been three major waves in the last century), then that calls into question the foresight of Allah and His Messenger, who are both beyond reproach once you have recognized the realities of iman.

Other examples of dimorphic laws: hijab, salat and fasting in menstruation, polygamy, guardian permission in marriage, marrying non-Muslims, sharing wealth in marriage, the obligation of working for men, conscription for men, contact with non-mahrams, etc.

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5 hours ago, Amira00 said:

Is it really that much of an illusion though? Yes, men and women are physically different, but Islam (from what I know of) does not make one thing halal for one sex and haram for the other (other than the marrying out of Islam, mutliple wives etc). For example, a woman has the same capability as her male counterpart in a job in an office for example. A man can also cook, just as well as a woman. A man can raise his children just as well as his wife. 

Males can't wear gold or silk. 

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So I guess in the end, Islam is for equity between the two sexes rather than equality. Although in Islam a woman is guaranteed her rights as a wife etc, Islam itself still places more value, freedom, and responsibility towards the man which in itself isn't feminist. 

Feminism consists of many things, some of which are in the workplace and others based on an equality of treatment. When a man inherits more than a woman Islamically then that would be the antithesis of a large portion of feminist ideology. 

So I guess in conclusion, I can't fully identify as a feminist despite the fact that I support most of what feminism stands for. 

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