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Women and men have equally important but unique and different roles to play.  

 

There is a reason why non of the Prophets were females.  Because females have what no prophets could do: I.e. bear a child.   

 

So so how could feminism (equality between male and female: which amounts to the destruction or negation of the two genders) be valid?

 

Edited by eThErEaL

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On 5/23/2018 at 10:31 AM, Amira00 said:

I just find it so frustrating that a lot of people don't consider themselves feminist because they don't like how "radical modern feminism" is. Feminism is feminism. The dictionary definition of feminism is 'the belief that both genders should be treated equally'.

Sister, you can't just look at the definition. When you talk about feminism, most people don't think of it in terms of definition. They think of the movement. You gotta look at the entire movement and where it stands today. Even secular non-Muslims have lost their respect to the movement. Are they all misogynists? No. They just don't agree with the movement. You don't have control over terms like that.

For example, there's this Iranian terrorist organization "Mujahideen-e-Khalq". By definition it sounds great. But it's not so great. "Taliban", by definition, is beautiful. But it's a terrorist organization. Same thing with "Islamic State". Which Muslim doesn't want a proper, peaceful Islamic State? But nobody likes "ISIS".

You're getting upset with terms.

On 5/23/2018 at 10:31 AM, Amira00 said:

So, surely, Islam is a feminist religion. If it isnt, then you're suggesting Islam teaches that the genders don't deserve equal rights in all sorts of things. It would suggest that Islam believes one gender is superior to another.

Ummm that's like saying "Alex is gay... He's happy.". Sure but most people think of "homosexuality" when they hear the word "gay". Again, you're getting all caught up with words and terms here.

On 5/23/2018 at 10:31 AM, Amira00 said:

People have radicalized Islam just like they have feminism. Terrorist groups like ISIS claim that Islam is founded upon the destruction of groups who don't agree with Islamic ideology. It preaches that islam allows the buying and selling of women for the pleasure of "the holy soldiers". Is that the belief of Islam? Of course not. Islam is a religion of peace etc. Does that mean we suddenly stop identifying as Muslim because terrorists like ISIS have radicalised our religion? No. We just live our lives as true Muslims and demonstrate to everyone else what true Islam is.

Most people in the world don't think of ISIS when they hear Islam. Sure a few potheads here and there will. But most people don't. Islam as a movement is still legit. Feminism as a movement is not.

On 5/23/2018 at 10:31 AM, Amira00 said:

To suddenly give radical feminists all the power by rejecting the original meaning of feminism and allowing the radical feminists to mould that definition to benefit them is so counterproductive and hypocritical.  Why should we give any radicals of any group any sort of acknowledgement? 

Because radical feminism has consumed the entire movement. Many former feminists themselves no longer like to associate themselves with the movement. Modern feminism sucks. That girl from Harry Potter... nope. Not buying into her ideology.

The biggest problem with feminism is that they don't have a system of Wilayah. That's where it contradicts with Islam. Islam has a notion of Wilayah. A man is a Wali of his wife. A father is a Wali of his children. An Imam is a Wali of the believers. Unfortunately, feminism doesn't have that concept. Men these days are so feminine that women won't accept them Walis anymore. 

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On 5/22/2018 at 2:07 PM, Tamy said:

Salam,

within the western society that I live in, feminism has become the new craze and it seems everyone is identifying as a feminist. I am a female myself and of course, believe we as women deserve the same place in the workplace as men as well as the rights to make our own decisions. However to what extent does that go with Islamic beliefs?

Of course, a Muslim woman has her rights named by religion but since feminism revolves around men and women being equal, doesn't that go against Islamic thought?

I'm honestly not sure whether I want to identify as a feminist or not.

Please let me know your opinions!

Islamically, men and women have different rights. Nowhere has Allah stated that one has superiority over the other.

Crude example:

Women can give birth.

Men can 'go' standing up (yes I know it is makrouh).

Allah has created us differently for different purposes so no need to compete.

Some feminists are complexed about being women because they try to compete with men in activities that are designed for men. 

 

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In reality, the entrance of the woman with equal rights into practical modern life, her new freedom, her finding herself side by side with men in the streets, offices, professions, factories, sports, and now even in political and military life, is one of those dissolutive phenomena in which, in most cases, it is difficult to perceive anything positive. In essence, all this is simply the renunciation of the woman's right to be a woman. The promiscuity of the sexes in modern existence can only "relieve" the woman to a greater or lesser degree of the energy with which she is endowed; she enters freer relationships only by regressing, because they are primitivized, prejudiced by all the factors and the practical, predominating interests of  modern life.

- Julius Evola, Ride the Tiger

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I honestly think people need to stop with these terms such as feminism. I believe the term should be Haq (as Abu Hadi said). 

All the rights, and responsibilities have already been stated in the Quran and we have it in our history, so what's the need to go to these external groups that mostly are extraordinarily misguided. 

Can we not all as muslims accept that Allah has set laws and defined the details for men and women. Allah has given women rights in the Quran. Why do i need to go outside and look elsewhere for extra ideas now? We are seeing the results of that in today's western society anyways. 

Is this an extreme inferiority complex of muslims across the globe? Are they extremely insecure and confused?. Why can't a muslim woman just say, no i', not a feminist; instead i am a muslim, and Allah has given me my rights; He has allowed me to work (but not the western feminist free loading partying drinking with men privately even in their homes type of work environment/ethic - but rather the Khadija type). He has allowed me to own my own property and land and to inherit, and the amount i inherit, is according to His wisdom. He has allowed me to live a peaceful life at home, to build my family, but He has also instructed that i be faithful and loyal to my husband, and that my Husband be the head of the family (Yes you read that right... why can't the muslims, and muslim woman just accept this and outright say it?). 

I think muslims need to stop bowing and be a bit more proud and confident in themselves, and also in Allah. I don't like the term Islam is a 'feminist' religion'. I like the term Islam is Haq... and it has given the natural, and best rights to all people. 

Edited by YAli

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On 5/28/2018 at 4:04 PM, Tamy said:

So I guess in the end, Islam is for equity between the two sexes rather than equality. Although in Islam a woman is guaranteed her rights as a wife etc, Islam itself still places more value, freedom, and responsibility towards the man which in itself isn't feminist. 

Feminism consists of many things, some of which are in the workplace and others based on an equality of treatment. When a man inherits more than a woman Islamically then that would be the antithesis of a large portion of feminist ideology. 

So I guess in conclusion, I can't fully identify as a feminist despite the fact that I support most of what feminism stands for. 

That depends on how you define equity and equality. Men and women are equal before Allah(s.w.a) in the ways that are most important, i.e. they both are creations of Allah(s.w.a) with free will and with rights and responsibilities and with the ability to defer their will to the will of Allah(s.w.a) in cases where their is a difference (Islam) and thus gain Paradise forever. That is the important stuff, IMHO. In this, there is no difference between them. 

There is a slight difference in their function within the society. The primary role of women, in an ideal situation, is as caregivers for children and as maintainers of calm and cordial relationships within the household and within the community. Women can also take on other roles as needed (have professions, be active in religious and charity organizations, etc) but their primary role is this because it is what they are good at (and something men are not as good at). This is how Allah(s.w.a) created them because these duties are essential for society to thrive and even to continue. The problem in the West is that this role of caregiver and homemaker (or 'domestic engineer' as some like to call it) has been so devalued that the 'modern women' looks down on this role and considers it beneath her and thus this role is not being fulfilled most of the time. This role not being fulfilled is having bad consequences for society (that is probably a subject for another thread). 

The inheritance is because the primary responsibility of a man is to support the family financially, in Islam. This role is clearly defined. Women are not responsible to do this. So because Allah(s.w.a) has given men this responsibility, he has given them a matching right (i.e. they get double the portion in inheritance). In Islam, rights and responsibilities are always paired. This is what we call Haqq(mentioned earlier in the thread). 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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6 hours ago, YAli said:

I don't like the term Islam is a 'feminist' religion'. I like the term Islam is Haq... and it has given the natural, and best rights to all people. 

Salam ,shia islam is the most feminist religion beside male Imams (as) we have Lady Fatima (sa) Lady Khadijah (sa) ,Lady Zainadine (sa) ,Umm Farwah  , Lady Sabika & Hamidah , Lady Narjes(sa) , Lady Fatima Masoume which Qom Hawza exists because of her as role models & Hadith narrators also a large portion of 313 real supporters of Imam Mahdi (aj) will be from women .

The Mahdi : position of Women 

https://youtu.be/Jp_X-X5NS3s

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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8 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

That depends on how you define equity and equality. Men and women are equal before Allah(s.w.a) in the ways that are most important, i.e. they both are creations of Allah(s.w.a) with free will and with rights and responsibilities and with the ability to defer their will to the will of Allah(s.w.a) in cases where their is a difference (Islam) and thus gain Paradise forever. That is the important stuff, IMHO. In this, there is no difference between them. 

There is a slight difference in their function within the society. The primary role of women, in an ideal situation, is as caregivers for children and as maintainers of calm and cordial relationships within the household and within the community. Women can also take on other roles as needed (have professions, be active in religious and charity organizations, etc) but their primary role is this because it is what they are good at (and something men are not as good at). This is how Allah(s.w.a) created them because these duties are essential for society to thrive and even to continue. The problem in the West is that this role of caregiver and homemaker (or 'domestic engineer' as some like to call it) has been so devalued that the 'modern women' looks down on this role and considers it beneath her and thus this role is not being fulfilled most of the time. This role not being fulfilled is having bad consequences for society (that is probably a subject for another thread). 

The inheritance is because the primary responsibility of a man is to support the family financially, in Islam. This role is clearly defined. Women are not responsible to do this. So because Allah(s.w.a) has given men this responsibility, he has given them a matching right (i.e. they get double the portion in inheritance). In Islam, rights and responsibilities are always paired. This is what we call Haqq(mentioned earlier in the thread). 

Loved reading your response and agree with what you've said. One question though; if someone asked you whether or not you were a feminist, what would you answer back or identify as?

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I'm a guy, so I've never been asked that question. :shifty:

Since I have been asked, I would probably ask the person to define what they mean by 'Feminism' 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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