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In the Name of God بسم الله

Responding To Refutation of Infallibility

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Here is the video that I will be responding to - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGD_RxwGoZ8&t=11s

In the video, the individual brings two verses to refute infallibility. The first verse is surah fatir, verse 32. It reads:

"Then We granted the Book to those We have chosen from Our servants. Some of them wrong themselves, some follow a middle course, and some are foremost in good deeds by Allah’s Will. That is ˹truly˺ the greatest bounty." (35:32)

He argues that we claim that our imams are the inheritors of the book, and in the verse it says that the some of the inheritors of the book wrong themselves. Therefore, the concept of infallibility is refuted. The answer comes from Al Kafi:

Al-Husayn ibn Muhammad has narrated from Mu'alla ibn Muhammad from Muhammad ibn  Jumhur from Hammad ibn 'Isa from 'Abd al-Mu'min from Salim who has said that he asked  abu Ja'far (a.s.) about the meaning of the words of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High. "We  gave the Book as an inheritance to Our chosen servants, among whom some are unjust against their souls, some are moderate, and some are exceedingly virtuous by the permission of  God. . . ." (35:31) The exceedingly virtuous is the Imam (a.s.), the moderate ones are those who know the Imams (a.s.) and the unjust ones are those who do not know the Imams (a.s.)." (Kitab al-Hujjah, Ch.24, H.1)

The next argument he bring is that in surah fatiha we ask Allah to guide us to the path of those whom he has bestowed favour. He says that this group has been mentioned in the Qur'an. The verse he brings is from surah Nisa, verse 69. It reads:

"And whoever obeys Allah and the Messenger - those will be with the ones upon whom Allah has bestowed favour of the prophets, the steadfast affirmers of truth, the martyrs and the righteous. And excellent are those as companions." (4:69)

He argues that in this verse, only the prophets are infallible, and the others (affirmers of truth, martyrs and righteous) are not. A question arises, who said that the other groups were not infallible? Does the verse say the affirmer of truth commits sin? Again, here is a hadith from the Imam:

From him, from Ahmad Bin Muhammad, from Ali Bin Al Hakam, from Sayf Bin Ameyra, from Abu Al Sabbah Al Kinany, (It has been narrated) from Abu Ja’far having said: ‘Assist us with the devoutness, for the one of you whom meets Allah Mighty and Majestic with the devoutness, there would be for him, in the Presence of Allah, a relief; and that Allah Mighty and Majestic is Saying [4:69] And whoever obeys Allah and the Rasool, these are with those upon whom Allah has Bestowed Favours from among the Prophets and the Truthful and the Martyrs and the Righteous, and a goodly company are they! Thus, from us is the Prophet, and from us is the truthful, and the martyrs and the righteous ones * (Al Kafi, Kitab al-eman wa al-kufr, Ch.37, H.12) Grading of Hadith- Sahih (Mira'at ul Uqool, Vol.8, Pg.23)

 

If anyone has something else to add, please share.

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I do not like to waste my time in listening or responding to y tube videos prepared by those who do not understand even a single verse of quran yet they try to divert its meaning from the righteous and chosen imams.

The discussion you are carrying out in sunni shia dialogue and still the hadith from shia sources are being presented which will not be acceptable by the monkeys who present such videos.

wasalam

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On 5/20/2018 at 5:43 AM, Follower of Ahlulbayt said:

Here is the video that I will be responding to - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGD_RxwGoZ8&t=11s

In the video, the individual brings two verses to refute infallibility. The first verse is surah fatir, verse 32. It reads:

"Then We granted the Book to those We have chosen from Our servants. Some of them wrong themselves, some follow a middle course, and some are foremost in good deeds by Allah’s Will. That is ˹truly˺ the greatest bounty." (35:32)

He argues that we claim that our imams are the inheritors of the book, and in the verse it says that the some of the inheritors of the book wrong themselves. Therefore, the concept of infallibility is refuted. The answer comes from Al Kafi:

Al-Husayn ibn Muhammad has narrated from Mu'alla ibn Muhammad from Muhammad ibn  Jumhur from Hammad ibn 'Isa from 'Abd al-Mu'min from Salim who has said that he asked  abu Ja'far (a.s.) about the meaning of the words of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High. "We  gave the Book as an inheritance to Our chosen servants, among whom some are unjust against their souls, some are moderate, and some are exceedingly virtuous by the permission of  God. . . ." (35:31) The exceedingly virtuous is the Imam (a.s.), the moderate ones are those who know the Imams (a.s.) and the unjust ones are those who do not know the Imams (a.s.)." (Kitab al-Hujjah, Ch.24, H.1)

 

There is a similar verse in the quran for the prophets

وَلَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا نُوحًا وَإِبْرَاهِيمَ وَجَعَلْنَا فِي ذُرِّيَّتِهِمَا النُّبُوَّةَ وَالْكِتَابَ ۖ فَمِنْهُمْ مُهْتَدٍ ۖ وَكَثِيرٌ مِنْهُمْ فَاسِقُونَ 

[Shakir 57:26] And certainly We sent Nuh and Ibrahim and We gave to their offspring the (gift of) prophecy and the Book; so there are among them those who go aright, and most of them are transgressors.

Do they say that who were given the Nabuwwat and the Kitab  most of them were transgressors(Na'udoBillah)?

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21 minutes ago, elite said:

There is a similar verse in the quran for the prophets

وَلَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا نُوحًا وَإِبْرَاهِيمَ وَجَعَلْنَا فِي ذُرِّيَّتِهِمَا النُّبُوَّةَ وَالْكِتَابَ ۖ فَمِنْهُمْ مُهْتَدٍ ۖ وَكَثِيرٌ مِنْهُمْ فَاسِقُونَ 

[Shakir 57:26] And certainly We sent Nuh and Ibrahim and We gave to their offspring the (gift of) prophecy and the Book; so there are among them those who go aright, and most of them are transgressors.

Do they say that who were given the Nabuwwat and the Kitab  most of them were transgressors(Na'udoBillah)?

Sorry brother I am a bit confused what is the correct way to understand this verse.

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10 hours ago, elite said:

There is a similar verse in the quran for the prophets

وَلَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا نُوحًا وَإِبْرَاهِيمَ وَجَعَلْنَا فِي ذُرِّيَّتِهِمَا النُّبُوَّةَ وَالْكِتَابَ ۖ فَمِنْهُمْ مُهْتَدٍ ۖ وَكَثِيرٌ مِنْهُمْ فَاسِقُونَ 

[Shakir 57:26] And certainly We sent Nuh and Ibrahim and We gave to their offspring the (gift of) prophecy and the Book; so there are among them those who go aright, and most of them are transgressors.

Do they say that who were given the Nabuwwat and the Kitab  most of them were transgressors(Na'udoBillah)?

﴿وَلَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا نُوحاً وَإِبْرَهِيمَ وَجَعَلْنَا فِى ذُرِّيَّتِهِمَا النُّبُوَّةَ وَالْكِتَـبَ فَمِنْهُمْ مُّهْتَدٍ وَكَثِيرٌ مِّنْهُمْ فَـسِقُونَ - ثُمَّ قَفَّيْنَا عَلَى ءَاثَـرِهِم بِرُسُلِنَا وَقَفَّيْنَا بِعِيسَى ابْنِ مَرْيَمَ وَءَاتَيْنَـهُ الإِنجِيلَ وَجَعَلْنَا فِى قُلُوبِ الَّذِينَ اتَّبَعُوهُ رَأْفَةً وَرَحْمَةً وَرَهْبَانِيَّةً ابتَدَعُوهَا مَا كَتَبْنَـهَا عَلَيْهِمْ إِلاَّ ابْتِغَآءَ رِضْوَنِ اللَّهِ فَمَا رَعَوْهَا حَقَّ رِعَايَتِهَا فَـَاتَيْنَا الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ مِنْهُمْ أَجْرَهُمْ وَكَثِيرٌ مِّنْهُمْ فَـسِقُونَ ﴾

26. And verily, We sent Noah and Abraham and placed in their offspring Prophethood and Scripture. And among them there are some who are guided; but many of them are sinners.

The Prophets were appointed by God Almighty rather than by mankind. The preceding blessed Verse generally treated of sending the Prophets, but the blessed Verse in question deal with the Arch-Prophets, beginning with Noah and Abraham (as) and the Arch-Prophets, saying that God Almighty vested Prophethood and Scriptures with their offspring; nonetheless, all their offspring failed to benefit from such great heritage and Bounties. Some of them found Divine Guidance in their light, but many of them were faithless, corrupt, and disobedient to Allah.

Prophethood began with Noah (as) and it was passed down to Abraham (as) and other Arch-Prophets. Then, it was passed down to some of their offspring. However, a limited number benefited from the Light of Guidance, but the majority of mankind went astray.

27. Then, We sent after them Our Messengers and We sent Jesus, son of Mary (as), and gave him the Gospel. And We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him compassion and mercy. But the monasticism which they invented for themselves, We did not prescribe for them, but they only aimed at pleasing Allah, but they did not observe it with the right observance. Therefore, We gave those among them who believed their reward; but many of them are disobedient to Allah.

The blessed Verse treats of sending the Prophets in succession by God Almighty for guiding mankind and sending Scriptures upon them such that God Almighty has provided mankind with Guidance imparted to them through His Messengers.

He also appointed Jesus, son of Mary (as), to Prophethood and sent down the Gospel unto him and made the hearts of his adherents merciful and compassionate. The compassion of Jesus' (as) people was like that of our Noble Prophet, Muhammad (S), such that concerning his companions, the Noble Prophet (S) said that there had been compassionate people among them.

Jesus' (as) people were so compassionate that if they were boxed in the ear, they not only did not take vengeance but also they turned the other side of their faces.

Today, Christians claim the same attitude and take pride in it but we notice that they cause the destruction of millions or billions of people by inventing weapons of mass destruction for their expansionist policies and they are even prepared to cause the destruction of their co-religionists.

"But the monasticism which they invented for themselves, We did not prescribe for them, but they only aimed at pleasing Allah, but they did not observe it with the right observance."

The Arabic word ruhbaniyya ("monasticism") is cognate with ruhban ("monastic, monk").

The latter, cognate with ruhba ("fear") is applied to someone who is most pious, ascetic, and God fearing. The word designates a Christian monastic living in seclusion for worshipping God, asceticism, and fear of God Almighty.

The blessed Verse is saying that God Almighty did not oblige them to follow monasticism, but they were merely asked to gain Divine Satisfaction. In other words, monasticism was not in the Christian doctrine, but Christians innovated it later on.

Early monasticism was rather moderate, but it turned toward deviation, error, and corruption and it was misused to ensnare people. Thus, monasteries were turned into centers of corruption and abnormalities penetrated into the Christian faith.

Therefore, the blessed Verse is saying that their goal was set upon Divine Satisfaction, but they failed to observe it duly and appropriately. Thus, God Almighty rewarded those who believed, but the majority of them were disobedient and sinners.

It is owing to the same reason that monasticism has been severely criticized and condemned by the Islamic faith and the well-known tradition:

"There is no monasticism in Islam" is mentioned in numerous Islamic sources.24

In his exegetic work titled Majma‘ al-Bayan, Tabarsi narrates from Ibn Mas‘ud that once he was mounted beside the Noble Prophet (S) when the latter asked:

"Do you know what was the origin of Christian monasticism?"

He replied:

"God Almighty and His Messenger know better."

He said:

"after Jesus (as), the disobedient and tyrants manifestly committed sins and disobeyed Divine Commands and believers could not tolerate their disobedience. Thus, Christian believers waged three wars with them and many monotheists fell in battles and few of them survived.

They said that if they waged further wars with them, all monotheists would fall and thought it would be better to leave the world to them and each of them live a life of seclusion and devotion in caves until Muhammad promised by Jesus (as) would arrive.

They had been leading a monastic life until I was appointed to the Prophetic call. Some of them believed in me, acknowledged my Prophethood, followed my injunctions, and were rewarded, but some of them failed to believe and perished."

Then, the Noble Prophet added:

"O Ibn Mas‘ud! Do you know where the monasticism of my community lies?"

I replied:

“God Almighty and His Messenger know better."

He replied:

"Migration, jihad in Allah's Cause, establishing prayers, fasting, paying alms tax, obligatory and supererogatory pilgrimage to Mecca, and rendering serves to Muslims."

https://www.al-islam.org/enlightening-commentary-light-holy-quran-vol-17/surah-al-hadid-verses-16-29#surah-al-hadid-verse-26

Edited by skyweb1987
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On 5/21/2018 at 11:49 AM, Follower of Ahlulbayt said:

Sorry brother I am a bit confused what is the correct way to understand this verse.

What they argue from the verse 35:32 is

Some of them wrong themselves (from the chosen servants),

some follow a middle course(from the chosen servants),

and some are foremost in good deeds by Allah’s Will(from the chosen servants)

But actually it should be 

Some of them wrong themselves (from our servants)

some follow a middle course (from our servants)

and some are foremost in good deeds by Allah’s Will (from our servants)

similarly if we take the verse 57:26 as per their understanding it should be like

So there are among them those who go aright ( from the offspring who were given the prophecy and the book).

And most of them are transgressors( from the offspring who were given the prophecy and the book).

But actually it should be

So there are among them those who go aright ( from their offspring)

And most of them are transgressors ( from their offspring)

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