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On 8/10/2018 at 3:44 AM, Bakir said:

We are either talking about religion or about science.

When it comes to religion:

Brother Jebreil insisted once on this point if I recall correctly (two or three years ago, can't remember). He defended that being unable to do a natural thing such as reproduction through having sexual relationship with the other sex is a disability or mental illness. I didn't agree completely to that, but I can see the logic behind it. However, the previously mentioned hadith precisely points the ability to choose whether to act on your desires or not, and that is the key difference between a mental illness and a sinful tendency. These two are different, and we must choose words with some wisdom, not out of personal preference (as prejudices will arise).

The Quran also recognizes sexual diversity in surat an Noor, verse 31, the existence of men with no desire for women (most refer to asexuals, though some sunni sholars also include the mukhanathun). Recognizing sexual diversity gives room for homosexuals to exist in a group that is not considered mentally ill people, but with people with a different sexual orientation.

 

When it comes to science:

It's been time since the last time someone considered homosexuality a mental health problem. No study demonstrates it is an illness according to science. Old studies have proved to be heavily biased and politized.

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So, my point is, you can call it whatever you want, but neither religious sources nor science support your wording preference. And don't get offended, but this is precisely the reason why I honestly felt you had inner prejudices against homosexuality, which is NORMAL in the male-centric society we live in.

 

The need to call it an illness or demonize it has always been the consequence of justifying the fiqhi prohibition of homosexuality, the need for answers. My point in these gay topics is not trying to promote homosexuality as many seem to believe at times (after so many years), but actually show that this topic lacks many answers, that there is a clear fiqhi prohibition but very poor explanations that are commonly inherited from a political right winged conservative ideology rather than a moral and human justification. And that this lack of information should not satisfy a curious and intelligent human being. It is also overwhelming the number of gay muslim/shia people I know who, out of fear, repress not only themselves, but avoid even giving their own opinion. There are many problems I try to find answers for, and I know for sure that we are doing something wrong because what is happening regarding this topic within the muslim and shia community is scandalous.

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum.

Brother what do you suggest needs to be done?  You are asking for a moral justification.  But with the fiqh perspective addressed in the shareea3, then we know it is also morally wrong.  The moral compass is within the sharee3a.

Why do you call it as repressing themselves and not practicing patience?  

There are 4 Levels of patience:

1. Patience with ibada (worship).

2. Patience with avoiding sins.

3. Patience with tribulations and we show this by being content with the decree of Allah.

4. Patience with blessings, we show this by thanking Allah for all the blessings He has given us.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

AM

 

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On 8/27/2018 at 12:22 AM, Laayla said:

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum.

Brother what do you suggest needs to be done?  You are asking for a moral justification.  But with the fiqh perspective addressed in the shareea3, then we know it is also morally wrong.  The moral compass is within the sharee3a.

Why do you call it as repressing themselves and not practicing patience?  

There are 4 Levels of patience:

1. Patience with ibada (worship).

2. Patience with avoiding sins.

3. Patience with tribulations and we show this by being content with the decree of Allah.

4. Patience with blessings, we show this by thanking Allah for all the blessings He has given us.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

AM

 

Sorry for the late reply, work leaves me with little time to answer quotes.

Although my post was (apparently) unnecessarily long, my only point was that people should be more careful when it comes to wording. 

And fiqh doesn't justify homophobia. This approach is a double-edged sword that definitely leads to atheism and resentment towards religion altogether. Time will prove us right or wrong, because this is definitely the hateful leading approach within our communities.

Religion's main pillar, as any ideology, is not a set of rules (fiqh), but passion. Can passion for religion exist for gay people even if it means celibacy? In my opinion, definitely yes. Can it exist within an extremely homophobic mentality? I doubt so.

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