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In the Name of God بسم الله
KnoXbar

Matam in the Current state . . .

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Salam . . . 

as i always try to explain in my posts that i am just a beginner in research on shiasm in the search of truth as i will never want to hurt someone's feeling at any level and if you find anything hurtful from my side i apologies in advance as my intention is just to know and learn + please avoid my bad english as well as i am not too good in it . . . 

so the question that i mostly asked about is MATAM . . . yes i do know that EVERY human being will cry after listening to masaaib of Karbala and after that . . . but i am unable to understand the current form of matam . . . beaten urself in deep grief looks fine to me but the way people do matam in sub-continent is it good? is there any hadiths about it? 

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2 hours ago, KnoXbar said:

Salam . . . 

as i always try to explain in my posts that i am just a beginner in research on shiasm in the search of truth as i will never want to hurt someone's feeling at any level and if you find anything hurtful from my side i apologies in advance as my intention is just to know and learn + please avoid my bad english as well as i am not too good in it . . . 

so the question that i mostly asked about is MATAM . . . yes i do know that EVERY human being will cry after listening to masaaib of Karbala and after that . . . but i am unable to understand the current form of matam . . . beaten urself in deep grief looks fine to me but the way people do matam in sub-continent is it good? is there any hadiths about it? 

I have to say that I think this topic has been thoroughly evaluated already, perhaps search and join one the existing threads. 

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Whatever tells a poem in the life of Hossein (peace be upon him) and fled, he will bless him and give him paradise. 
 

Language is always an interpreter of reason, but an interpreter of love is an eye. Where tears come from feelings and pain and burning, love is present, but as the language makes logical sentences with its regular circulation, reason is present. 

Therefore, as logical and humane reasoning can reveal the speaker's solidarity with the goals of the school leaders, the tear drop can also be considered an emotional battle against the enemies of the school. 

Hence, the cry of Hazrat Zeinab Alihaslam on the people of Bait (as) was an emotional cry and a messenger's cry, and a kind of denial of evil, and a burning and scandalous slogan of tyrants and oppressors. 

On this basis, the Prophet of Islam and the Imams (as) have called on anyone who is not ready to cry pretend to crying (in the form of crying) to keep alive Hussein in all ages in memories. 

At the reward of crying on Imam Hossein (as) 
The cry for the Imam  is so great and great that God is the guarantor of it. 

The cry for that Imam will eliminate the difficulties of the time of death. For Imam Sadiq (as) referred to Masama ibn'Abd al-Malik, "Do you remember the afflictions of your holy Imam (as Imam Hussein (peace be upon him)? 

He said: "I remember and cry for them. 

The Prophet (pbuh) said: "Be aware that you will see that when my dead fathers , they will execute your will to Death angle  who will make your eyes clear." 

He also said: "The crying on the circumstances of Hussein (peace be upon him) causes The angle of death to be more kind to you than a mother." 

Crying on Imam Abu Abdullah al-Hussein (AS) makes it easy for dead to be buried, buried and happy when he is dead, happy and covered when he leaves the grave while he is glad. The divine angels give him glad tidings of heaven and divine reward. 

The revenues of each drop are that a person always has a place in Paradise. (1) 

The cryer on Imam Hussein (AS) in Paradise will be with them and their degree. (2) 

Sheikh Jalil Ja'far ibn Ghuluia has narrated in full from Ibn Darjeh: 
One day we served Imam Sadiq (as) and we rememberd Imam Hussein (peace be upon him), and we mentioned him.Hazrat Sadiq (AS)  cried and we are also cried up with them. Imam Hussein (peace be upon him) said that Imam Hussein (peace be upon him) said: "I am dead of  crying. My name is not taken to any believer unless he becomes sad and crying ." 

According to the narration, there was no time for the name of Imam Hussein (as) to be brought to Imam Sadiq (peace be upon him), and that Imam would Become sad  on that day. The Imam  was grieved and disappointed all day and said: Imam Hussein (AS) causes of cry of any believer. 

Sheikh Tusi and Sheikh Mofid have narrated from A'ban ibn Qalub that Imam Sadiq (as) said: "The breath  of one who is distressed for our oppression is merit(Tasbeeh), and his sorrow and mourning is the worship of God and the hiding of our mysteries from the foreigeners is jihad in the way of God." (3) 

Sheikh-e-Kashi (ra) has narrated from Zaid Shham: "I was with the congregation of the Kufis at the service of Imam Sadiq (AS), Ja'far ibn Afan. The Imam Sadiq  (As) approached him and sat near him and said: "Ja'far! 

Jafar said: "My soul, God, I will sacrifice you for me." 

The Ima, (sa) said: I have been told that you are doing poetry in the mourning of Hossein (AS). 

Jafar said: Yes, I'll be yours. 

The Imam said: read it. 

Ja'far began reading the poem, Imam Sadiq (AS) and the audience of the House started crying  

Hazrat so groaned that the tears of his blessed eyes flowed on his sacred beard . 

After that, the Imam (as) said: "By Allah, the arch angels who came here and listened to your mourning, which is in the affliction of Hussein (peace be upon him), and wept more than us, and at the same time, heaven with all the blessings is made  obligatory for you and forgave your sins. 

So Imam said: "Do you want to I say so much, Ja'far?" 

Jafar said: Yes, my Master! 

The Imam (as) said: Anyone who says in the grief of Hussein (AS) a poem and cries and makes othe cry, Allah bless him and make Heaven a oblihatory for him. (4) 

Sheikh Saduq (ra) narrated from Ebrahim ibn Abu al-Mahmoud that Imam Reza (peace be upon him) (peace be upon him) said: "The month of Muharram was a month that considered by the people of ignorance, war, and qatal in that month forbidden, but this traitor nation drones of our blood in it The holy month, and hurt our sanctity and captured our women and children in that month. Fire burned in our tents and looted our property. The sanctity of His Holiness the Prophet (PBUH & HP) & his household did not respect . 

Indeed, the tragedy of martyrdom of Hussein (AS) hurt our eyes and tear us down. Our dearly hated us, and the land of Karbala became grave our fathers and mothers. 

Therefore, they should go to Hussein; indeed, the cry upon him will crush the great sins. 

Then Imam Reza (peace be upon him) (peace be upon him) said: My father did not see that Imam as laughing because the month of Muharram came in. And the sadness and grief prevailed over him till the day of Ashura. That day was the day of his tribulation and grief, and said: Today is the day when Hussein (PBUH) was martyred. 

Sheikh al-Saduq also narrated from the Imam: "Everybody cries  in day of Ashura the judgement day will be his happy day, his eye will  become  brighten of by our light ." (5) 

It was narrated from Ryan bin Shabib that the first day of Muharram came to the service of Imam Reza (peace be upon him). Imam Reza (AS) said: "O son of a Shabib if you cry on Hussein (AS), and the tear of your eyes  will flow on you face , the Exalted Allah   will forgive all of your Small and grave sins, be it little or very much. 

O son of Shabib: If you want to meet Allah, while you do not have any sin, visit Hussein (peace be upon him). 

O son of Shabib  If you want to resurrect with Imam Hussain  (as) in a pavilion of Paradise with the Messenger of Allah and the Purified Imams. curse the murderers of Hussein (as) 

If you want to be like the martyrs of Karbala and you have a reward, say that: Whenever you remember the misery of the Imam , say: "Is it possible that I would have been with them and I would receive a great salvation?" 

If you want to be in high places in Paradise, O then be sad for our grief, and rejoice in our joy. Beloved on you, our authority and love, that if somebody loves a stone  , he will summon with it on the Day of Resurrection. (6) 

Ibn Qulliiyeh narrated with a reliable document from Abu Aharon Maknoof who said: "I went to the service of Imam Sadiq (AS), and he said. Read for me the life of Hossein (as). I also started to read. 

Imam said: do not read in the same style and style that you are familiar with yourself and read to the grave of Hossein (as). So I read 

They were crying and I was silent. 

He said: read, I read, until the lyrics were over. 

The Imam (as) said: read it again, I began to read these poems: or the family Maryam Fandibi Moulak and Ali Al-Hussein Fasaddi Babak 

Then the Imam  became sa and the women were crying and shivering, and when they calm down, they said: "O Abaharun, whoever calls for Hussein (peace be upon him), and makes one person cries , the paradise will be obliged to him" And then he said: Whoever teaches Imam Hussein (peace be upon him) and cries of him, Paradise is obligatory on him. (7) 

They have narrated the authentic document from Abdullah Bin Bakr saying: One day, I asked Imam Sadiq (peace be upon him), that O son of prophet  (PBUH & HP) al-Hassan, if we dig the grave of Imam Hussein (AS), would see something in his grave? 

The Imam(pbuh) said: "What a great your question !" Your question is correct. Hussein ibn Ali'Al-ul-Islam is with his parents and brother at the house of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him), and they are feeding & happy with each other  

Sometimes he hangs on the right side of the throne and says: "O my Lord! Beware of the covenant with me then he looks at, his pilgrims, he knows them with their names and the names of their parents." And he looks at those who cry for him and ask forgiveness for them and ask it for their parents  t forgiven them and say: 
Crying on me If you know what God is offering for you and rewards, any time  of your happiness will be more than your grief. 

His majesty ask from Allah (saw) which he bless every sin and error that he has done. (8) 

The value of tear drop for Imam Hossein (as) 
A drop of it will turn off the fire and heat if it drops in hell. 

The angels capture it and record it in a glass. (9) 

For every practice, rewards are limited to the rewards of those tears whose reciprocity has no limit or finality. 

Tearing Eye-at the mourning of Imam Hussein (as) and its value 
If the tear on Imam Hussein (as) has all this credibility, then the eye that is mourning him also has its own properties and characteristics. 

Eye-catching properties in the mourning of Imam Hussein (AS) 
That eye is much more popular with the Lord than all eyes. (10) 

All eyes are crying on the Day of Resurrection except an eye crying on Imam Hussein (peace be upon him). (11) 

That eye is lit up by the light of Kosar and the view of it. (12) 

Angels  bless that eye with blemishes and cleanse tears from it. (13) 

Critical  tying for Imam Hussein (AS) 
Anyone who has ever received this blessing from Allah and has been able to drown a tear in the mourning of the Imam’s eyes, as well as illuminated blessings and unspeakable spiritual conditions, but cry for that Imam’s related qualities It is to ourselves that we briefly mention some of it: it is blessing the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH & HP) & his progeny . (14) 

The help and assistance of Hazrat Zahra, Salam Allah, as due to the fact that she mourns to mourn his child every day. (15) 

Paying debt to the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him),Allah (set) and the Imams (as). (16) 

The crying for that Imam is the following of the prophets, the angels, and the worshipers of Allah. 

Paying the wages of the Prophet's mission is because it comes from the Qur'an, which is the recipe for the Prophet of Almighty Almighty (friendship with the Prophet's family). Leaving it is betraying to the Prophet. (17)

The soothing heart of all cries and griefs. (18) 

Characteristics of the Majalis of the Passion of Imam Hossein (as) 
Those who participate in his meetings are well aware of the climate there and establish deep spiritual communication with his imam t, but according to various traditions and narrations of the congresses, the Imam has some characteristics: 

1. Everyone will sit in a meeting where the Imams (as) are referred to and mention their afflictions, his heart does not die on the day when the hearts die. (19) 

2. Such are the loving parties of God, His Messenger and the Imams (as) (20) 

3- The breath of the mourning person in that House is the blessing of God. (21) 

4- This is the place where Imam Hussein (peace be upon him) is about. Because that gentleman is in the throne and from there he is watching towards the land of Karbala and his pilgrims and criers. (22) 

5. The arch angels ofAllah are present at the House. 

6. The Assembly of Mourning of Imam Hussein (PBUH), wherever he stands, is his presence 

7. It is a journey of criers because the place of salvation and divine mercy and forgiving  Of sins. 

8. This assembly is from other congresses more sacred and higher. (23) 


Follow up 
1- Baharalanavar, p. 44, p. 289, and full of al-Zayarat Bob 32, p. 101 
2- Baharalanvar / 278/44 / Amali Sadooge Majlesi 17 / p. 68 
3- Endha al-Amal, p. 1, p. 538 
4. End-a-Al-Amal, p. 1, p. 539 
5-Endha al-Amal, p. 1, p. 540 
6- Endless Al-Amal, 1, p. 541 
7- Endless Al-Amal, 1, p. 542 
8- Concluding Al-Amal, p. 1, p. 543 
9. Montakhab Tarihy / 140/2 
10- Bharalanavar / 207/45, Full of Al-Zayat Bob 26 p. 81 
11- Bharalanovar / 293/44, Ala / 534/17 
12- Baharalanwar / 290/44, full of Al-Zayarat Bob 32 p. 102 
13. Baharalanvar / 305/44, the interpretation of Imam Hasan Asgari (AS) p. 369 
14. Biharalanvar / 207/45, Kamil of Al-Zayarat Bob 26 p. 81 
15- Bharalanavar / 209/208/45, Kamil of Al-Zayarat b. P. 82 
16- Bharalanavar / 207/45, full of Al-Zayarat Bob 26 p. 81 
17. Baharalanavar, p. 45, p. 205 and full of al-Zayarat, Bob 26, p. 79 
18. Translated by Khasayes al-Husseiniyah, p. 257 
19- Bharalanavar / 278/44, Amali Sadouk Majlesi 17 p. 68 
20- Bharalanavar / 282/42, Ghorb al-Asnad p.) 18 
21- Bharalanavar / 278/44, Amali Sadug, Majles 17, p. 68 
22- Bharalanavar / 292/44, full of Al-Zayarat Bob 32 p. 103 
23- Translation of Khasees Al-Husseiniyah, p. 256

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On 5/18/2018 at 4:43 AM, KnoXbar said:

Salam . . . 

as i always try to explain in my posts that i am just a beginner in research on shiasm in the search of truth as i will never want to hurt someone's feeling at any level and if you find anything hurtful from my side i apologies in advance as my intention is just to know and learn + please avoid my bad english as well as i am not too good in it . . . 

so the question that i mostly asked about is MATAM . . . yes i do know that EVERY human being will cry after listening to masaaib of Karbala and after that . . . but i am unable to understand the current form of matam . . . beaten urself in deep grief looks fine to me but the way people do matam in sub-continent is it good? is there any hadiths about it? 

not sure about the limitation to sub-continent. You simply have to go to Karbala on Arbaeen or see videos that people from all over the world come and do matam in their own way.

Some beat their heads, others, beat their cheeks, others beat their chests, some slap their laps.

Do whatever you can or don't do any of it. Its all good brother.

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^  I agree generally we spill more ink than blood in discussions about matam and their is no one way of doing it , its a matter of showing your grief

as an outsider i feel like shias should not get entangled in this too much it wastes their time and energy, gives sunnis a chance to attack them 

 

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I think matam is dumb.  You don't need to show others that you are greiving, assuming you really are grieving and not just putting on a show.  And I have never seen someone do matam for a family member, let alone the matam with blades.  Does that mean they aren't grieving for their family members?  

 

Again, you don't need to cause yourself harm and/or pain to show that you are grieving.  If you want to do that, do it in private.

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1 hour ago, coldcow said:

I think matam is dumb.  You don't need to show others that you are greiving, assuming you really are grieving and not just putting on a show.  And I have never seen someone do matam for a family member, let alone the matam with blades.  Does that mean they aren't grieving for their family members?  

 

Again, you don't need to cause yourself harm and/or pain to show that you are grieving.  If you want to do that, do it in private.

Because the grief of Hussain supersedes the grief of any family member.

I thinking people who thinks matam is dumb are dumber.

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Just now, ShiaMan14 said:

Because the grief of Hussain supersedes the grief of any family member.

I thinking people who thinks matam is dumb are dumber.

Sorry, but I don't think that's true.  That's a great line to tell people to show your devotion to your religion/Imams, but in actuality it's hard to replicate the type of bond you develop with a loved one compared with a historical/religious figure you only read and hear about.  

And matam is not part of Islam, as far as I'm aware.  Therefore, trying to bring it into Islam is dumb.

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3 minutes ago, coldcow said:

nd matam is not part of Islam, as far as I'm aware.  Therefore, trying to bring it into Islam is dumb.

Muslims do Matam & show it after martyrdom of Hamza (ra) by order of prophet (pbu) publicly that is also available in sunni sources so your view about it doesn’t make un Islamic 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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3 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Muslims do Matam & show it after martyrdom of Hamza (ra) by order of prophet (pbu) publicly that is also available in sunni sources so your view about it doesn’t make un Islamic 

Can you provide the sources please?

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3 minutes ago, coldcow said:

Can you provide the sources please?

وعن ابن شاذان من حدیث ابن مسعود رضی الله عنه : ما رأینا رسول الله صلى الله علیه وسلم باکیا قط أشد من بکائه على حمزة رضی الله عنه ، وضعه فی القبلة ، ثم وقف على جنازته ، وأنحب حتى نشغ ، أی شهق ، حتى بلغ به لغشی من البکاء یقول : یا حمزة یا عم رسول الله وأسد رسوله : یا حمزة یا فاعل الخیرات ، یا حمزة یا کاشف الکرب ، یا حمزة یا ذاب عن وجه رسول الله صلى الله علیه وسلم ، وکان صلى الله تعالى علیه وسلم إذا صلى على جنازة ....

شرح مسند أبی حنیفة، ج1، ص526

Ibn Mas'ud Sahabi, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH & HP), in the book of Abbas Hanifah's verse, says:We did not see that the Prophet (peace be upon him) would cry for someone, just as he cried for Hamza. When the Prophet Muhammad faced with dead body of Hazrat Hamzah :  put him on the side of the qiblah, and faced the body with burning and Anala, the Holy Prophet of Allah, and with the severity of the cry and disasterHe fell and fell unconscious and said: O uncle of the Prophet of Allah ( peace be upon him), and lion of Allah, Oh Hamza. Oh, good doer ,Oh you remover of The sadness, the one who was sacrificed for the Messenger of Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى of Allah, ..

 Sharh Mosnad Abuhanifa v1 p526  

 

 

http://ahlesonat.blog.ir/1395/04/29/گریه-شدید-پیامبر-برای-حمزه-سیدالشهداء2.jpg

 

3.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

وعن ابن شاذان من حدیث ابن مسعود رضی الله عنه : ما رأینا رسول الله صلى الله علیه وسلم باکیا قط أشد من بکائه على حمزة رضی الله عنه ، وضعه فی القبلة ، ثم وقف على جنازته ، وأنحب حتى نشغ ، أی شهق ، حتى بلغ به لغشی من البکاء یقول : یا حمزة یا عم رسول الله وأسد رسوله : یا حمزة یا فاعل الخیرات ، یا حمزة یا کاشف الکرب ، یا حمزة یا ذاب عن وجه رسول الله صلى الله علیه وسلم ، وکان صلى الله تعالى علیه وسلم إذا صلى على جنازة ....

شرح مسند أبی حنیفة، ج1، ص526

Ibn Mas'ud Sahabi, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH & HP), in the book of Abbas Hanifah's verse, says:We did not see that the Prophet (peace be upon him) would cry for someone, just as he cried for Hamza. When the Prophet Muhammad faced with dead body of Hazrat Hamzah :  put him on the side of the qiblah, and faced the body with burning and Anala, the Holy Prophet of Allah, and with the severity of the cry and disasterHe fell and fell unconscious and said: O uncle of the Prophet of Allah ( peace be upon him), and lion of Allah, Oh Hamza. Oh, good doer ,Oh you remover of The sadness, the one who was sacrificed for the Messenger of Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى of Allah, ..

 Sharh Mosnad Abuhanifa v1 p526  

 

 

http://ahlesonat.blog.ir/1395/04/29/گریه-شدید-پیامبر-برای-حمزه-سیدالشهداء2.jpg

 

3.jpg

The only thing I understand of what you posted is what is in English, and based off that, I see nothing that indicates the prophet hit himself or cut himself while mourning, merely that he cried so much he fell down.

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45 minutes ago, coldcow said:

Sorry, but I don't think that's true.  That's a great line to tell people to show your devotion to your religion/Imams, but in actuality it's hard to replicate the type of bond you develop with a loved one compared with a historical/religious figure you only read and hear about.  

People have sacrificed themselves and their loved ones for the love of AhlulBayt so you think wrong.

46 minutes ago, coldcow said:

And matam is not part of Islam, as far as I'm aware.  Therefore, trying to bring it into Islam is dumb.

No one said it is wajib. ShiaChat is not part of Islam so you being on it is dumb too them...per your (il)logic.

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12 minutes ago, coldcow said:

The only thing I understand of what you posted is what is in English, and based off that, I see nothing that indicates the prophet hit himself or cut himself while mourning, merely that he cried so much he fell down.

We are not talking about tatbir aka bloodletting, just regular matam using hands.

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