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placid

THE HOLINESS OF GOD IS WITHOUT COMPROMISE

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THE HOLINESS OF GOD IS WITHOUT COMPROMISE --- so how did sin invade mankind?

Hi Friends, I would like to start this subject, which you might also have questions or comments on. --- It is interesting today that we hear so much about the signs of the times in prophecy, and we need to be aware of the times we live in; where it seems that on every level man is opposed to man. --- So where did animosity start? --- And with whatever we see on earth, it ultimately leads us back to God.

--- The Bible teaches that God is Holy, and Holiness is an absolute, so it cannot be compromised. --- It says in Hebrews 12:14 “Pursue peace with all men, and Holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.” --- So if God demands Holiness from us, why did He allow sin in the world? And how did it start?

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7 hours ago, placid said:

THE HOLINESS OF GOD IS WITHOUT COMPROMISE --- so how did sin invade mankind?

Hi Friends, I would like to start this subject, which you might also have questions or comments on. --- It is interesting today that we hear so much about the signs of the times in prophecy, and we need to be aware of the times we live in; where it seems that on every level man is opposed to man. --- So where did animosity start? --- And with whatever we see on earth, it ultimately leads us back to God.

--- The Bible teaches that God is Holy, and Holiness is an absolute, so it cannot be compromised. --- It says in Hebrews 12:14 “Pursue peace with all men, and Holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.” --- So if God demands Holiness from us, why did He allow sin in the world? And how did it start?

Perhaps the first sin started with Satan who refused an order that God commanded him. In Islam, good deeds are encouraged, but more importantly is to refrain from sins. 

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2 hours ago, Hameedeh said:

Perhaps the first sin started with Satan who refused an order that God commanded him. In Islam, good deeds are encouraged, but more importantly is to refrain from sins. 

Same thing with  Christianity it strongly emphasis on avoiding sins and encourage good deeds such as the Ten Commandments. Their similar to the Muslims 

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Hi Hameedeh, --- Thanks for your welcome.

Yes it has been some time. --- Life and family tends to keep us busy. This is a series of short numbered messages for information and discussion. 

2. There is an explanation in the Zondervan Pictorial Bible Dictionary on “The origin of sin” that says, Quote: “God is love” and “God is holy.” Because love is His predominating characteristic, God desired to surround His throne with creatures whom He might love, and by whom He might be loved. Because of His holiness these creatures must also be holy; and by logical necessity love and holiness cannot be forced. Compulsory love or holiness would not be either love or holiness, and could not satisfy the all-wise Creator. Therefore, these loving and holy creatures must be endowed with the ability to choose whether “to glorify God and enjoy Him forever,” or to reject Him and suffer the consequences.

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On 5/5/2018 at 10:42 AM, placid said:

THE HOLINESS OF GOD IS WITHOUT COMPROMISE --- so how did sin invade mankind?

Hi Friends, I would like to start this subject, which you might also have questions or comments on. --- It is interesting today that we hear so much about the signs of the times in prophecy, and we need to be aware of the times we live in; where it seems that on every level man is opposed to man. --- So where did animosity start? --- And with whatever we see on earth, it ultimately leads us back to God.

--- The Bible teaches that God is Holy, and Holiness is an absolute, so it cannot be compromised. --- It says in Hebrews 12:14 “Pursue peace with all men, and Holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.” --- So if God demands Holiness from us, why did He allow sin in the world? And how did it start?

God gave us free will. If he were to make us without this free will and not sin, then why put us on earth in the first place. He would just create us and send us straight to heaven. This is the purpose of life. To test us. He put us on earth and gave us a chance of everlasting joy as a reward for our hardships on earth. It would not be so much a reward if we did not work for it. And this work is simply to refrain from sinning. 

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On 5/6/2018 at 12:42 AM, placid said:

THE HOLINESS OF GOD IS WITHOUT COMPROMISE --- so how did sin invade mankind?

Hi Friends, I would like to start this subject, which you might also have questions or comments on. --- It is interesting today that we hear so much about the signs of the times in prophecy, and we need to be aware of the times we live in; where it seems that on every level man is opposed to man. --- So where did animosity start? --- And with whatever we see on earth, it ultimately leads us back to God.

--- The Bible teaches that God is Holy, and Holiness is an absolute, so it cannot be compromised. --- It says in Hebrews 12:14 “Pursue peace with all men, and Holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.” --- So if God demands Holiness from us, why did He allow sin in the world? And how did it start?

HI Placid, 

Good selection of topic, 

I at times think- How and who would define/determine Sin? Isnt that in most cases the things that we describe as Sin are acceptable or allowed to perform in many other religions and many more ?

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3 hours ago, Be Human First said:

HI Placid, 

Good selection of topic, 

I at times think- How and who would define/determine Sin? Isnt that in most cases the things that we describe as Sin are acceptable or allowed to perform in many other religions and many more ?

That could only be decided by someone who knows everything about everybody. 

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On 5/7/2018 at 10:42 PM, Be Human First said:

This is what every other religion followers think and belief In.

Every other? You can't have a one true religion if everyone else's religion is just as good. This is why every religion teaches you how the others are wrong. 

I think part of what Placid is saying is; Regardless what religion you are, it doesn't change God. 

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Hi,

To continue with the quote from the Zondervan Pictorial Bible Dictionary:

3. Quote: The story of the beginning of sin is nowhere related explicitly in the Word; but these certain passages seem to hint so strongly that the following theory has long been held to explain them. Isaiah 14:12-15 is apparently directed to “the king of Babylon,” and Ezekiel 28:12-17 similarly to “the prince of Tyre,” but in each case (in these interwoven prophecies) the prophet uses language which could not truly and literally refer to any mere man. End of quote. --- The first passage says:

--- Isaiah 14:12 “How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer,[b] (day star, son of the morning!) How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! 1For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.’ 15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit.

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4. And the second: --- Ezekiel 28:12 ‘Thus says the Lord God: “You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. 15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you. 16 “By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones. 17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor.

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5. To go back to the the Zondervan Pictorial Bible Dictionary, it continues: --- Quote: “Apparently God first peopled the universe, or at least our part of it with a hierarchy of holy angels, of whom one of the orders was (or contained) the Cherubim. One of them, perhaps the highest of all was ‘the anointed cherub that covereth,’ who was created beautiful and perfect in his ways. The cherub knew that he was beautiful, but pride entered his heart and the first sin in the whole history of eternity occurred. Pride led to self-will (Is14:13-14) and self-will to rebellion. This great cherub became the adversary (Satan) of God, and apparently led other angels into rebellion.” End of quote. --- This Is the long held theory that gives insight into the origin of sin.

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6. Now, back to the first question, “So if God demands Holiness from us, why did He allow sin in the world? And how did it start?” --- There is evidence that God created many angels, in fact many orders of angels, who were obedient to Him. In the Scriptures the word million was not used, so the way large numbers were expressed was like this in Daniel 7:10 “A thousand thousands ministered to Him. Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.” --- So there were lots of angels, but if they were programmed to be holy and obedient, perhaps there was something missing. If God’s predominating characteristic was love, perhaps His desire was to have some beings who would love Him, in response to His love for them.

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7. So God created this order of angels through Love and Holiness, and with the expectation of receiving the same in return, but in giving them an intellect to choose, there was the chance of betrayal. --- Because this was all in ‘history past,’ we don’t know how long the ‘peaceful bliss’ lasted. God, out of Love and Holiness had created the Cherubim perfect, and even chose a leader from among them, --- It says in Ezekiel 28:12 “You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.” 14 “You were the anointed Cherub (the leader), I established you.” 15 “You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you.”

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On 5/11/2018 at 4:13 PM, placid said:

6. Now, back to the first question, “So if God demands Holiness from us, why did He allow sin in the world? And how did it start?” --- There is evidence that God created many angels, in fact many orders of angels, who were obedient to Him. In the Scriptures the word million was not used, so the way large numbers were expressed was like this in Daniel 7:10 “A thousand thousands ministered to Him. Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.” --- So there were lots of angels, but if they were programmed to be holy and obedient, perhaps there was something missing. If God’s predominating characteristic was love, perhaps His desire was to have some beings who would love Him, in response to His love for them.

Hi 

Im still re-reading all your posted quotes about Sins...Trying to ponder upon it from different angles :)

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On 5/13/2018 at 1:03 AM, placid said:

7. So God created this order of angels through Love and Holiness, and with the expectation of receiving the same in return, but in giving them an intellect to choose, there was the chance of betrayal. --- Because this was all in ‘history past,’ we don’t know how long the ‘peaceful bliss’ lasted. God, out of Love and Holiness had created the Cherubim perfect, and even chose a leader from among them, --- It says in Ezekiel 28:12 “You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.” 14 “You were the anointed Cherub (the leader), I established you.” 15 “You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you.”

@placidJust on a very lite note for the sake of discussion without keeping our believes in between

.. When THE GOD created the Best beings by his Indefinite Omnipotence quality than how come this Iniquity placed or found in those created beings at later Stage? Did he himself ( GOD) placed it in them, or Was there something that was (momentarily) dominated his created beings? or Was there some type of  Defect/Contamination ?

PS: Please do not start pelting stones at me  LOL for raising the questions that might hurt religious feelings.. It is just a question there is no intention at all to disrespect or hurt any belief, I have the same feelings for God as you all do being his creation.

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Hi,

I have written this subject in short numbered posts for information and discussion so we will progress to the answers and conclusions

Thanks for your comments and questions, and I think post 8 gives the right answer.

 

8. The evidence is that  God did not create sin. Sin developed in a created being. This one who was chosen as ‘leader’ was ‘perfect in his ways from the day he was created,’ therefore, he was created perfect. --- As leader, other angels would respond to him and he had their obedience. At some point he thought of having his own kingdom. Isaiah 14:13 For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north; 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.’ --- “He said in his heart,” so the heart is the birthplace of sin. The first sin was pride, the second sin was self-will, or self exaltation, which led to rebellion. --- Notice that pride, lie, sin, crime, and guilt, all have I in the middle.

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Hi 'Be human first,' --- I have written this in a number of short numbered posts to fit a different format, but it is good for discussion as we go along.

Thanks for reading, I hope you will continue

 

9. This rebellion caused temporary division and God had to cleanse heaven to keep it holy. He removed the ‘instigator of sin,’ and all his followers, to restore perfect Holiness in heaven. --- Holiness cannot be compromised, or it is not Holiness, and this is God’s standard for entrance into heaven. --- In the later creation on earth God said, “Let us make man in Our image, after Our likeness.” This was a physical flesh and bones body, alive in the Holy Spirit. And the first recipients, Adam and Eve, also had an intellect to make choices. --- Satan had no more access to God’s heaven, but he had access to the Garden of Eden, and we know the story. After a period of peaceful bliss, Adam and Eve were led into sin, and were cast out of the garden.

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10. “As through one man (Adam) sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, for all have sinned.” Romans 5:12. It says in 1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all (believers) shall be made alive.” --- So how can we escape this penalty? --- Jesus said in John 3:5 “Unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” --- One must accept Jesus as their Savior, then the study and application of the ‘word of God’ is the ‘water’ that cleanses. The indwelling Holy Spirit gives the ‘new birth.’ We then have the spiritual awareness of heaven; but we are living in a sinful world, and with our human nature, we are still a long way from holiness, are we not?  

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Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from his father and Abu Ali al-Ash'ari and Muhammad ibn Yahya all from al-Husayn ibn Ishaq from Ali ibn Mahziyar from Fadalah ibn Ayyub from 'Abd al-Samad ibn Bashir from abu 'Abd Allah, recipient of divine supreme covenant, who has said the following:
 



"When a believing servant (of Allah) commits a sin Allah gives 
him seven hours respite. If he pleads for forgiveness from Allah 
within such time nothing will be written against him. If the hours 
pass and he did not plead for forgiveness one sin will be written 
against him. A believer remembers his sin even after twenty 
years so that he may plead to his Lord for forgiveness and He 
forgives him. An unbeliever forgets his sin within the same 
hour."' 
 

Share...Chapter: 186, Hadith: 2961, Number: 3 
 

known and that which is not clearly known, the sin and rebellion without right." In the first verse 
Allah, most Majestic, most Glorious, has said, "They ask you about wine and gambling. Say, 'There 
are great sins in them and there is benefit for people.'" In the fourth verse He has said to say, "My 
Lord has made unlawful only the sins which are clearly known and that which is not clearly known." 
Allah, most Majestic, most Glorious, has informed that there is sin in wine and other things and that it 
is unlawful because when Allah, most Majestic, most Glorious, decides to sanction an obligation He 
explains in gradual steps. This, on the part of Allah, most Majestic, most Glorious, is a plan which is 
more correct and closer to them for acceptance and of less dislike on their part.'" 


 

Share...Chapter: 20, Hadith: 11948, Number: 2
 
 
 

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Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad al-Hassan ibn Mahbub from abu Ayyub from Muhammad ibn Sawqah who has narrated the following:
 



"I once asked abu Ja'far, 'Alayhi al-Salam, about the meaning of the words of Allah, most Majestic, 
most Glorious, 'Whoever intentionally changes the will of a deceased person, has committed a sin. 
Allah is All-hearing and All-knowing. 5 (2:181) He (the Imam) said, 'The following verse is a 
(modified) copy of this verse: 'One who is afraid of the testator's deviations and sin and settles the 
matter among the parties involved, he has not committed a sin. Allah is All-forgiving and All- 
merciful. 5 (2:182) If the executor fears for the testator's deviation from the law in his will, then it is 
not a sin for the executor to bring it in conformity with the truth according to the happiness of Allah 
and following the path of virtue. 555 


 

Share...Chapter: 14, Hadith: 12826, Number: 2    http://www.fourshiabooks.com/hadith/al-kafi/29/14/2

Kitab Al-Kafi Book # 36: Al-Rawada

Chapter 52: Hadith of the Worshipper

Muhammad Bin Yahya, from Ahmad Bin Muhammad Bin Isa, fromm Ali Bin Al-Hakam,from Muhammad Bin Sinan, from the one who informed him, the following:
 


'Abu AbdullahASWS has said: 'There was a worshipper in the Children of Israel who
never got involved with anything from the affairs of the world. Ibleesla grunted a
grunt, and hisla army gathered towards himla. So heLA said, 'Who is the one for meLA
for that one?' One of them said, 'I am for him'. So heLA said, 'From where you will
come to him?' He said, 'From the aspect of the women'. HeLA said, 'This is not for
him. He will never be tempted by the women'.

Another one said to himla, 'I will be for him'. So heLA said, 'From where will you come
to him?' He said, 'From the aspect of the drink and the pleasures'. HeLA said, 'This is
not for him. This cannot be by this'. Another one said, 'I will be for him'. HeLA said,
'From where will you come to him?' From the aspect of the righteousness'. So heLA
said, 'Go, for you are the master of it'. So he went to the place of the man. He settled
himself near him and Prayed.

HeASWS said: 'And the man used to sleep, and the Devil would not sleep, and he
would rest, and the Devil would not rest. So the man turned towards him and belittled
himself, and considered his deeds as short and small, so he said, 'O servant of
AllahAZWJ! With what thing do you get your strength from to perform these Prayers?'
He did not answer him. Then he repeated to him. He still did not answer him. Then
he repeated it again to him, so he said, 'O servant of AllahAZWJ! I committed a sin, and
I am repentant from it. So now whenever I remember the sin, it gives me strength for
the 'Salat' (Prayers)'.

He said, 'Inform be about your sin until I understand it, and I can repent if I were to
commit it in order to derive strength for the Prayers'. He said, 'Enter the city and ask
around for so and so female prostitute. Give her two Dirhams, and benefit from her'.
He said, 'I do not know where I would get two Dirhams from?' So the Devil took two
Dirhams from under his feet and gave these to him. So he stood up and entered the
city wearing his robe, asking around for the house of that prostitute. The people
guided him thinking that he is going there to advise her, so they guided him.

So he went to her and threw the two Dirhams at her and said, 'Stand up'. So she
stood up and entered inside her house, and she said, 'Enter, and you have come to
me in a dress which no one has come to me wearing the like of it. So, inform me of
your news'. So he informed her. She said to him, 'O servant of AllahAZWJ! The
avoidance of sin is easier than repenting for it, and every repentant person does not
find it (Accepted). But rather, it is befitting that he is a Devil who looks like you. So
leave, for you will not see anything'.

So he left, and she died that very night, and there was found written on her door, 'Be
cautious of this one, for she is from the inhabitants of the Paradise!' The people
became suspicious, so they waited for three days and did not bury her due to their
doubts in her matter. So AllahAZWJ Mighty and Majestic Revealed unto a ProphetAS
from the ProphetsAS unknown to anyone except for Musa Bin Imranas that: "Go to her
and Pray over her and order the people to Prayed over her, for IAZWJ have Forgiven
her, and Obligated the Paradise for her, for her discouraging MyAZWJ servant from
disobeying MeAZWJ'.
 

Share...Chapter: 52, Hadith: 15031, Number: 1   http://www.fourshiabooks.com/hadith/al-kafi/36/52/1
 
 
 
 

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Hi Ashvazdanghe,

 

Thank you for your response. I had spent much time on Shiachat some time ago as the number of posts indicate. I have read the Quran and found the website, “Quranbrowser,’ which compares 10 versions, so it was interesting to compare the different translations.

 

As a Christian, I was interested in studying our similarities and differences. With the many posters I discussed with, we had a rule, --- we would only use the Quran and the Bible, which are the authorized Scriptures. --- So that ruled out all teaching from hadiths. --- Sorry, but for mutual understanding, we have to use the authorized base.

 

From here on the short numbered posts will deal with what the Bible teaches about a ‘return to holiness,’ which is needed to enter heaven, as this verse says in Hebrews 12:14 “Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.”

 

In Surah 5 it gives us the authority for the Jewish faith and the Christian faith in these verses:

005.044 Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light, by which the prophets who surrendered (unto Allah) judged the Jews, and the rabbis and the priests (judged) by such of Allah's Scripture as they were bidden to observe, and thereunto were they witnesses.

005.046 And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).

005.047 Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers.

 
005.048 And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires away from the truth which hath come unto thee. For each We have appointed a divine law and a traced-out way. Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you (He hath made you as ye are). So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah ye will all return, and He will then inform you of that wherein ye differ.

 

Notice in 44 that the Torah was ‘guidance and a light’ to the Jews, and 46 that the Gospel was ‘guidance and a light’ to the Christians. And the verse ends with ‘confirming what was revealed before it in the Torah’ --- and, ‘a guidance and an ADMONITION (serious instruction) to those who ward off evil (or are true believers.)  

 

Verse 47 Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein.” --- So, as Christians we are compelled to follow and live according to the Gospel.

 

Then we have verse 48 that puts it all together. “And unto thee (Muhammad) have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it (the Torah and the Gospel), and a watcher over it (all the Scriptures including the revelations to Muhammad).

 

For each We have appointed a divine law and a traced-out way.”--- So for Jews, Christians and Muslims there is a guided path to follow.

 

So vie one with another in good works.” --- The word ‘vie’can mean ‘try to outdo one another’in doing good works.

--- You see, after our faith is established we should be complimenting one another, and working in friendly competition, to win others to faith in God.--- (Our enemy is Satan, not each other, or other religions.)

 

From this you will understand my belief as a Christian, and as I said, from here on the posts will give the Christian perspective of regaining the position of holiness with God.--- (It is not as easy as some think.)

 

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From the above post you will understand my belief as a Christian, and as I said, from here on the posts will give the Christian perspective of regaining the position of holiness with God.

 

11. “For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” 2 Corinthians 5:21. The word ‘become’ suggests ‘a  process.’ Paul wrote in Romans 12:1 That we present our bodies a living sacrifice, as ‘yielded vessels’ to God. 2 Not conformed to the world, but ‘transformed’ by the renewing of our minds. --- He gets personal in Colossians 3:8 “You yourselves put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. 9 Lie not one to another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, 10 and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him.” So the ‘becoming righteous’ is not done for us, but by us.  

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12. Righteousness simply means rightness, and our new ‘walk with the Lord’ means conforming to His plan for our life, and that means ‘doing right.’ Paul wrote in Ephesians 2:8 “For by (God’s) grace you have been saved through (your) faith, and that not of yourselves; it (grace) is the gift of God, 9 not of works (any merit or action of our own), lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship (workers), created (re-created or transformed) in Christ Jesus for (doing) good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” --- So becoming a Christian comes with a work schedule, --- to do His will in working out the unholiness in our lives. We are to become ‘vessels of love, joy and peace.’

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13. Paul continues with the enrichment of the spiritual life, as he wrote in Galatians 5, (comparing our spiritual lives to a garden which produces good fruit), --- 22 “The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering (patience), kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.” --- I must admit as believers we often fail to do God’s will in both the work He gives us to do, and in our emotions and attitudes towards others. We lapse back temporarily until we feel that hint of conviction by the Holy Spirit, then we humbly ask His forgiveness and continue on. --- Notice that it says, “Against such there is no law.” All the Laws of the Old Testament are fulfilled in our love for God, and our fellow man.  

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14. The night before Jesus was crucified, He taught the 11 disciples, in Matthew 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” (Is this not how we recognize other believers?) --- Jesus was asked by a lawyer in Matthew 22:36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” 37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” 

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15. And Paul concludes his chapter on Love, 1 Corinthians 13, with these words, “And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.” This introduces these great experiences, as we entered into ‘faith’ when we first accepted the Lord, so faith is our ‘past’ and ongoing experience, ‘hope’ is our anticipation of the ‘future,’ --- but ‘love is now.’ --- Love is the ‘present,’ if we are living in the atmosphere of ‘loving God and loving our fellow man.’ --- And we have these three, ‘love, joy, and peace.’  With love comes joy, and our wellbeing with God, gives us peace.--- Jesus said in John 13:35 “By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” Joy is the overflowing of the love that we share with others, in our walk with the Lord.  

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16. Jesus said, “Peace I leave with you, My peace I give unto you; not as the world gives, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.” John 14:27. --- Someone said, “Peace is loving faith at rest.” In the Beatitudes Jesus said, Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.” --- That is getting closer to holiness is it not? It says in Hebrews 12:14 “Pursue peace with all people and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.” First we need salvation which gives ‘peace with God,’ then we need ‘peace with ourselves’ as we work through our problems to become ‘righteous in Christ’ --- Then we need ‘peace’ with all others, as God’s peace within, prepares us to enter His holiness.

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Hi Kirtc,

Thanks for your question.

Quote: I wonder when you read the verses you quote.. do you think that Mohammed saaw made them up himself?

As I quoted in the response at the top of this page, --- "And unto thee (Muhammad) have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher (guardian) over it."

The previous verses in Surah 5 speak of the Torah and the Gospel, --- So this adds the revelations to Muhammad as being true, does it not?

I have used this portion of Surah 5 often in earlier discussions, and I believe it was revealed to Muhammad, so, no, I don't believe Muhammad made them up.

 

 

 

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