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In the Name of God بسم الله
hassansaggaf

Using Soap While Ghusl

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On 4/30/2018 at 3:47 AM, Hassan- said:

@hassansaggaf

No you can't do that for two reasons. One reason is ghusl must be done only with water, and by putting soap into the equation it will alter the water into another form of liquid (soap water), and will not be considered as pure water anymore. The second reason is ghusl must be done with the intention of performing the ghusl only, not with the intention to clean your body. You can't intend to do both at the same time, you can only intend one thing. 

This is incorrect. Unless he's using a bathtub or something, using soap with a shower, for example, is not a problem since the water would wash away any soap and still reach the skin. After the first second or so, the water would also be pure, and not mudhaaf (mixed).

As for intentions, I don't believe I've ever come across such a restriction where one cannot seek to clean your body with what is, after all, a bath. What I can refer to is the ruling that if a part of your body is najis, you don't need to make it tahir before the ghusl, and that it may be argued that a dual-intention ghusl, at least for the purpose of purifying najasah, is allowed. Thus, it would seem that have another intention like cleaning your body is not a problem.

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6 hours ago, Khadim uz Zahra said:

This is incorrect. Unless he's using a bathtub or something, using soap with a shower, for example, is not a problem since the water would wash away any soap and still reach the skin. After the first second or so, the water would also be pure, and not mudhaaf (mixed).

As for intentions, I don't believe I've ever come across such a restriction where one cannot seek to clean your body with what is, after all, a bath. What I can refer to is the ruling that if a part of your body is najis, you don't need to make it tahir before the ghusl, and that it may be argued that a dual-intention ghusl, at least for the purpose of purifying najasah, is allowed. Thus, it would seem that have another intention like cleaning your body is not a problem.

Assalam alaykum brother,

But when I emailed najaf.org about this, they also said it is not allowed. They said so on two different occasions.
I think what brother @Hassan- is trying to imply is that in the first wash, water would get mixed with soap lather and not remain mutlaq. Only in the second wash would mutlaq water reach the skin, and we need to wash the head and neck + each side twice, so this would mess with the ghusl.

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On 5/4/2018 at 8:27 PM, Khadim uz Zahra said:

This is incorrect. Unless he's using a bathtub or something, using soap with a shower, for example, is not a problem since the water would wash away any soap and still reach the skin. After the first second or so, the water would also be pure, and not mudhaaf (mixed).

So what you are saying is the first 10-20 seconds of ghusl will be mixed with soap and water, then when the water washes off all the soap, only water will be used for ghusl. This can be problematic, because the first rule of ghusl is to use water only, but now you are violating that rule by intentionally using non-water at the beginning to perform your ghusl. Even if the soap will be washed off eventually and only water will be used, it’s the mere fact that you started your ghusl with non-water. What would be more proper is to wash off the soap without the intention of ghusl, then intend to do ghusl when all the soap is washed off from your body.

On 5/4/2018 at 8:27 PM, Khadim uz Zahra said:

As for intentions, I don't believe I've ever come across such a restriction where one cannot seek to clean your body with what is, after all, a bath. What I can refer to is the ruling that if a part of your body is najis, you don't need to make it tahir before the ghusl, and that it may be argued that a dual-intention ghusl, at least for the purpose of purifying najasah, is allowed. Thus, it would seem that have another intention like cleaning your body is not a problem.

A ghusl is not a bath, it’s a form of worship (‘ibadah) and its purpose is not to clean yourself. In fiqh one can have multiple intentions for ‘ibadah purposes only, such as performing one ghusl for multiple ghusls (ghusl for ghusl al Janabah and mustahab Friday ghusl), but a ghusl with the intention to perform ghusl and clean yourself is not allowed because that defeats the purpose of what a ghusl is truly for. It’s the same for Wudu’, if one wakes up for fajr salah and washes his face for Wudu with the intention of performing the Wudu and wake himself up with cold water, his Wudu becomes void.

As for the ruling you mentioned, you need to know two things. This ruling does not say you are allowed to have the intention to clean yourself and perform ghusl at the same time, it means you are allowed to perform your ghusl while there are nijasah present on your body, and then the nijasah washes off during the ghusl. This ruling is also the ruling of Sayed Sistani, and correct me if I’m wrong, he’s the only marja’ that allows this. The rest of the maraji’ say one must clean the nijasah off before starting ghusl or else the ghusl will be void.

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27 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

So what you are saying is the first 10-20 seconds of ghusl will be mixed with soap and water, then when the water washes off all the soap, only water will be used for ghusl. This can be problematic, because the first rule of ghusl is to use water only, but now you are violating that rule by intentionally using non-water at the beginning to perform your ghusl. Even if the soap will be washed off eventually and only water will be used, it’s the mere fact that you started your ghusl with non-water. What would be more proper is to wash off the soap without the intention of ghusl, then intend to do ghusl when all the soap is washed off from your body.

A ghusl is not a bath, it’s a form of worship (‘ibadah) and its purpose is not to clean yourself. In fiqh one can have multiple intentions for ‘ibadah purposes only, such as performing one ghusl for multiple ghusls (ghusl for ghusl al Janabah and mustahab Friday ghusl), but a ghusl with the intention to perform ghusl and clean yourself is not allowed because that defeats the purpose of what a ghusl is truly for. It’s the same for Wudu’, if one wakes up for fajr salah and washes his face for Wudu with the intention of performing the Wudu and wake himself up with cold water, his Wudu becomes void.

As for the ruling you mentioned, you need to know two things. This ruling does not say you are allowed to have the intention to clean yourself and perform ghusl at the same time, it means you are allowed to perform your ghusl while there are nijasah present on your body, and then the nijasah washes off during the ghusl. This ruling is also the ruling of Sayed Sistani, and correct me if I’m wrong, he’s the only marja’ that allows this. The rest of the maraji’ say one must clean the nijasah off before starting ghusl or else the ghusl will be void.

I mean, I don't know what soap you use but...generally speaking, if you're standing under a shower, the soap will be washed away in a second or two. 

As for the question of niyyah, I'm almost certain you're being far too extreme in the matter of what qualifier as sufficient. That one must perform acts of worship with a niyyah is true but to state that one cannot do wudhu if they are also aware that doing so would wake him up is taking it a bit too far. Being aware of an additional benefit of an action doesn't mean that it won't count for the act of worship. Otherwise, everyone would have to wait an hour before doing wudhu in the morning because everyone feels a little less sleepy after the Wudhu.

Edited by Khadim uz Zahra

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1 hour ago, Khadim uz Zahra said:

I mean, I don't know what soap you use but...generally speaking, if you're standing under a shower, the soap will be washed away in a second or two. 

As for the question of niyyah, I'm almost certain you're being far too extreme in the matter of what qualifier as sufficient. That one must perform acts of worship with a niyyah is true but to state that one cannot do wudhu if they are also aware that doing so would wake him up is taking it a bit too far. Being aware of an additional benefit of an action doesn't mean that it won't count for the act of worship. Otherwise, everyone would have to wait an hour before doing wudhu in the morning because everyone feels a little less sleepy after the Wudhu.

One second or one minute, it’s the mere fact that your starting off your ghusl with non-water that makes it problematic.

I didn’t say one is not allowed to wash his face if it’s going to wake him up, I said one is not allowed to wash his face if his intention is to wake himself up. When I perform Wudu in the morning, the water to my face wakes me up but I was not intending to wake myself up, I was simply intending to perform the Wudu to pray. Whether the Wudu wakes me up or not is not my problem, but if someone says something like “let me perform Wudu to pray, but I will use cold water to do the Wudu so it can wake me up and make me feel less sleepy”, this will invalidate your Wudu. I can show you lectures of Sayed Sabah shubr explaining these issues, but I don’t think you understand Arabic.

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33 minutes ago, learn said:

salam, when performing gusl, how many times one should wash head and neck, right side and left side of the body? 

Salam just one time is enough.

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is it true that gusl should be done with cold water? or I have understand it wrong. What if someone is not able to do gusl with cold water because of the sensitvity to the cold water? does that mean the gusl is void if it is done with warm water?

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13 hours ago, learn said:

is it true that gusl should be done with cold water? or I have understand it wrong. What if someone is not able to do gusl with cold water because of the sensitvity to the cold water? does that mean the gusl is void if it is done with warm water?

No. There's no such rule that ghusl with warm water is void. 

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Is my ghusl valid if I don't gargle water in my mouth or gargle when I wash my head. Is ghusl like wudhu, when it comes to direction of water up to down or down to up, does it matter? Can someone list the wajib acts to make ghusl valid. Thank you...

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1 hour ago, hassansaggaf said:

Is my ghusl valid if I don't gargle water in my mouth or gargle when I wash my head. Is ghusl like wudhu, when it comes to direction of water up to down or down to up, does it matter? Can someone list the wajib acts to make ghusl valid. Thank you...

You don't need to wash the inside of your mouth for ghusl - or wudhu, for that matter. (It's mustahab to do so in Wudhu, and not wajib.) As for the direction, unlike Wudhu, the direction doesn't matter.

The things you need to do for ghusl are:

a. Niyyah (making the intention of doing ghusl).

b. Washing your head (including your neck).

c. Washing the right side of your body.

d. Washing the left side of your body.

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On 5/4/2018 at 8:08 PM, hassansaggaf said:

@Hassan-

Is brushing teeth before ghusl required?

My way of ghusal.

 

1. Use toilet :D 

2. Brush your teeth. 

3. perform Ghusal

4. Shampoo your hair. 

5. Get a shower gel, and clean your body. 

6. Use face wash. 

7. grab a towel to dry your skin. 

8. look yourself in the mirror and flex and say damn I am so good looking. 

9. Use Deodorant and clean your ears.

10. wear your clothes. 

11. Brush your hair.

12. Apply some moisturizer on your face. 

You are ready to go.

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On 5/7/2018 at 2:03 PM, learn said:

is it true that gusl should be done with cold water? or I have understand it wrong. What if someone is not able to do gusl with cold water because of the sensitvity to the cold water? does that mean the gusl is void if it is done with warm water?

If you become junub (impure) from a haraam act (fornication, masturbation, etc.), it is recommended you perform the ghusl with cold water. Not obligatory, just mustahab.

379. If a person who entered the state of Janabat due to an unlawful act takes a bath with warm water, the Ghusl will be valid even though one may perspire at that time. But the recommended precaution is that such a person should do Ghusl with cold water.

http://www.sistani.org/english/book/48/2168/

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@Khadim uz Zahra I read some Sunni sites that say it is not recommended and you should cover up the private parts. I also found this:

The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a.) has prohibited bathing naked under the sky and in streams and rivers and also said that there are angels in the streams. In the same manner, washing or bathing naked in bathroom is prohibited.

http://www.shiavault.com/books/tahzeeb-ul-islam-islamic-ettiquettes/chapters/6-manners-of-going-to-a-bath-washing-head-and-body-applying-noorah-and-certain-baths

But I can't find any fatwas related to this issue.

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5 minutes ago, hassansaggaf said:

@Khadim uz Zahra I read some Sunni sites that say it is not recommended and you should cover up the private parts. I also found this:

The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a.) has prohibited bathing naked under the sky and in streams and rivers and also said that there are angels in the streams. In the same manner, washing or bathing naked in bathroom is prohibited.

http://www.shiavault.com/books/tahzeeb-ul-islam-islamic-ettiquettes/chapters/6-manners-of-going-to-a-bath-washing-head-and-body-applying-noorah-and-certain-baths

But I can't find any fatwas related to this issue.

Well, if you're not doing ghusl irtimasi (by submersion), and just doing a regular ghusl using a shower, you also need to wash your private parts in order for the ghusl to be valid. How you're supposed to wash the private parts if they're covered is beyond me.

Having read some of those traditions, it seems to me that they might be about going to a hammam (public bath). For example, one narrations says, "...Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a.) has cursed that person who sees anyone naked in the bathroom and has also cursed that person who does not wrap a cloth round his waist." That would imply this is referring to a shared communal bath. Back then, of course, people didn't have their own private bathroom in the house so asking everyone to wear a towel in the communal bath would make sense.

Edited by Khadim uz Zahra

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2 minutes ago, hassansaggaf said:

@Khadim uz Zahra Since there is no fatwa related to this I think it's valid, but I am still confused by the hadith in that book. :confused:

As I said, these narrations most likely refer to a shared bath. You need to remember that in those times, people didn't have their own bathroom, except maybe a king or something. The concept of your own, personal 'bathroom' didn't exist until modern times. So, a bathroom back then didn't mean what it does now. That's, at least, what I think answers your concern.

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On 4/29/2018 at 8:04 AM, hassansaggaf said:

(salam)

Is it okay to use soap while ghusl and then wash it away with water.

Shukran

Tozih al-masael by imam khomeini , page 372 :

”for ghusl tartibi(sequential) it’s not necessary for the body to be clean to start the ghusl “

”but for irtimasi it’s necessary “

Edited by Arminmo

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