Divorcing infertile husband

[Laayla 4,714]

Bismehe Ta3ala,

That is up to her to decide.  

Insh'Allah she does ziyarats to our Imams.  They are full of blessings (karamat).  That is reality, but you tend to think otherwise.  

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah 

[Be Human First 105]

On 5/3/2018 at 4:56 PM, Laayla said:

Bismehe Ta3ala,

That is up to her to decide.  

Insh'Allah she does ziyarats to our Imams.  They are full of blessings (karamat).  That is reality, but you tend to think otherwise.  

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah 

Who would on this earth deny that Imams are not Madadgaar, but you still unable to get to the point, I'd not blame you it is how we are thought whether one understands aything or not. Any way Have a good day.

[AbuHope 251]

Don't have children. It's a trap. I just washed her poop off my shirt.

[Abu Nur 4,680]

14 hours ago, Anonymous2144 said:

Your better off not having kids it’s 2018 raising chidren is extemely challanging and it will get worse in the next coming years save yourself a headache and just be a devout Muslim and do lots of charity and help the poor.

The children is blessing and not burden, only selfish people who are attached to their dunya life will find it even more burden, complaining on every matter that disturb them.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Abu Nur

[Anonymous2144 427]

59 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

The children is blessing and not burden, only selfish people who are attached to their dunya life will find it even more burden, complaining on every matter that disturb them.

Im not saying they are a burden. But what I’m trying to say is not everyone now a days can raise a child really well in this generation,some are capable some are not, the couple should think about it to themselves if they can or can not i know a couple that didn’t have kids because it was too challenging and couldn’t handle the heavy weight on their shoulders. Some people have kids for pure selfish reasons...which most people do unfortunately. Not everyone can handle rising kids it’s something really challenging and not easy. 

[shadow_of_light 1,802]

17 hours ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Where do you live? 

 

For both religious and Islamic reasons adoption is prohibited in Iraq. It is illegal for foreigners or non-Muslims to adopt Iraqi children. There is a guardianship system in place in Iraq allowing for families to care for an orphan without the child actually becoming a son or daughter. 

I live in Iran. Thank you for the response.

Children dont only need financial support. They need to have parents and live with them.

[Ron_Burgundy 1,904]

6 hours ago, shadow_of_light said:

I live in Iran. Thank you for the response.

Children dont only need financial support. They need to have parents and live with them.

That is so true. 

[touma86 4]

Dear everyone. Salamun alaykum. 

I read each of you and I thank you for your comments. At this point, it is not about trying to do more things to have kids. As I told you, my husband does not want more IVFs even if it's in Iran. We have definitely tried a lot of things and Allah simply does not want us to have a child. Allah does what he wills. As for me, you know IVF is a gruesome experience. I don't think I can emotionally take it anymore. We asked the office of sayyid Sistani about the requirements to make an adoptive baby mahram for us and they are very very difficult. At this point, I want to know if any of you know a Muslim shi3a couple that has gone through the process of making baby mahram through breastfeeding? Unfortunately no resources out there for couples like us from our communities. Thank you. 

[Hameedeh 19,983]

On 4/27/2018 at 6:49 PM, touma86 said:

Thanks for the reply. My mother and 2 sisters have told me to divorce him for many years now. They say I don't deserve this pain and say any man would either get a new wife or leave the infertile wife, so they say why we women have to suffer for this when men have other choices and don't feel bad for leaving the infertile wife. but my father tells me to stay because God will help us somehow. That's why I'm confused. My husband doesn't want adopted children because he says it gets complicated when they grow older. Before I did not care if we adopt but I don't want to do it without his full heart into it. I want children because I feel more judged by my family and some friends to stay with no children and with him when I have the choice to have them with someone else. 

Salam. This is general information for any couple who has not been able to get pregnant. Of course if a woman or a man has a medical condition that prevents pregnancy, this information won't be effective. If a doctor says there is no medical reason for not getting pregnant, these can effect your ability to get pregnant. There are others, but I won't go into them right now. 

1) Both the wife and the husband should take a daily vitamin and mineral pill, to make sure that they have no deficiency in any vitamin or mineral. 

2) Eat healthy, according to a nutritionist's standard, including salads or vegetables, at least 1 fruit a day (apple is mentioned in hadith as well as many other fruits and vegetables).

3) Eat enough protein, not always meat. Good choices are chickpeas (garbanzo), lentils, nuts, seeds, cottage cheese, yogurt, etc.

4. If either of you smoke or drink alcohol, it is imperative to stop that. 

[Abu Hadi 9,704]

16 hours ago, touma86 said:

Dear everyone. Salamun alaykum. 

I read each of you and I thank you for your comments. At this point, it is not about trying to do more things to have kids. As I told you, my husband does not want more IVFs even if it's in Iran. We have definitely tried a lot of things and Allah simply does not want us to have a child. Allah does what he wills. As for me, you know IVF is a gruesome experience. I don't think I can emotionally take it anymore. We asked the office of sayyid Sistani about the requirements to make an adoptive baby mahram for us and they are very very difficult. At this point, I want to know if any of you know a Muslim shi3a couple that has gone through the process of making baby mahram through breastfeeding? Unfortunately no resources out there for couples like us from our communities. Thank you. 

I don't know any couple that has gone thru it, but I know a sister here in the area who was adopted, she's a revert to Islam. When she became muslim, her adopted father, who is not her biological father had to be treated by her as non mahram (she couldn't hug him, she had to wear her hijab around him, etc). This was extremely difficult for her, as this man was the only father she ever knew. Of course, her mother, because she is a women, is mahram to her. 

The difficult situation, with adoption, comes in with adoptive fathers and daughters. A boy can be made mahram to a women thru breastfeeding (when he is below 2 years of age per the process that you were told about by the office of Sayyid Sistani(ha)), so she can have normal interactions with him as a mother would, but a baby girl cannot be made mahram to a man who is not her biological father. So if you adopted a girl, once she became baligh, she would have to observer the normal rules of non mahram around her adoptive father. This is the difficult part, and I don't know of any exceptions to this. In Islam, adoptive parents are not the same as biological parents, from a mahram / non mahram point of view. 

So if you wanted to adopt, and you wanted to have a somewhat normal family life, probably the only choice for you is to adopt a boy who is under 2 years old. That would be my suggestion, if you want to go thru the adoptive process. It is not an easy process, and the reason is because Islam discourages, in an extreme way, biological mothers and fathers abandoning their children. 

Edited May 6, 2018 by Abu Hadi

[Mehrazar 4]

On 4/28/2018 at 4:19 AM, Abu Hadi said:

I don't think you should divorce him, if you think he is an otherwise good guy. 

There are almost no couples who get everything they want out of the marriage. Some have children but they are poor, some are not poor but one or the other spouse is abusive, lying, cheating, etc. Some have a spouse that is much more / less religious and so they don't feel they are compatiple. So on the scale of relationship problems, this is not one of the major ones, In my humble opinion. I know you might think, 'well you don't know what it's like'. You're right, I don't. I have three healthy children, Alhamduillah. At the same time if you want Sadaqa Jarriya and to contribute to society, there are lots of other ways, besides having children. You probably know of or are already doing a few of these. 

In the end, how happy or how miserable you are in life depends on how you react to the things which are under your control. The things which are not under your control, like the fact that you can't have children, is not one of the things you can control. You can control your reaction to it. You can turn it into a positive or a negative. I don't think divorcing your husband would qualify as turning it into a positive. After 19 years and all the things you have went through as a couple, I don't think separating at this point would be a positive thing for either one of you. 

Salamunalaikum.Personally I love kids but I support people who do not want them.It's their life after all

[Diaz 1,256]

On 5/2/2018 at 5:42 PM, Panzerwaffe said:

Doner sperm of his brother or male relative ? Is that allowed in Islam?

What??? Of course it’s haram lol xD 

[Diaz 1,256]

Wait, I actually didn’t know what IVF is, I checked in google and now I know everything. That’s permissible in our religion? According to whom? 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Diaz

[starlight 14,500]

4 minutes ago, Diaz said:

Wait, I actually didn’t know what IVF is, I checked in google and now I know everything. That’s permissible in our religion? According to whom? 

IVF is permissible according to most marjas.

[starlight 14,500]

@Diaz what exactly do you want me to explain?

[Diaz 1,256]

2 minutes ago, starlight said:

@Diaz what exactly do you want me to explain?

I’m confused, I always thought IVF is haram because we all knows why, when did it become halal? I wanted to ask you if prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) or any of Ahlul bayt (عليه السلام) accepted it but then I remembered IVF didn’t exist at that time. I’m scared now and don’t know what to do.

[starlight 14,500]

4 minutes ago, Diaz said:

I’m confused, I always thought IVF is haram because we all knows why, when did it become halal? I wanted to ask you if prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) or any of Ahlul bayt (عليه السلام) accepted it but then I remembered IVF didn’t exist at that time. I’m scared now and don’t know what to do.

Lol, why are you scared?

IVF is just in vitro fertilization. The husband's sperm and egg from wife are fertilized in a lab instead of the fallopian tube and later the embryo is transferred to the mother's uterus.

In order for it to be permissible islamically the eggs and sperm have to come from the couple, donor gametes cannot be used and the uterus also has to be the mother's,surrogates aren't allowed. 

[Diaz 1,256]

6 minutes ago, starlight said:

In order for it to be permissible islamically the eggs and sperm have to come from the couple, donor gametes cannot be used and the uterus also has to be the mother's,surrogates aren't allowed. 

I’m sorry, I didn’t write exactly what I wanted to say. I’m scared because it’s written that it’s permissible for a woman to use another man’s sperm if her husband is infertile. 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Diaz

[starlight 14,500]

13 minutes ago, Diaz said:

 it’s written that it’s permissible for a woman to use another man’s sperm if her husband is infertile. 

It's not!!where did you read that?

[Diaz 1,256]

10 minutes ago, starlight said:

It's not!!where did you read that?

Ok basically I watched Anti-Majos video because I wanted to laugh, their latest video is about sayid Sistani and sayid khamenei accepting married women using another man’s sperm if they are doing it as IVF. They even mentioned it in their websites. 
watch the video below it’s 15 min long 

Sister Rebecca masterton talked about it too, check here https://www.al-islam.org/ask/topics/6073/questions-about-IVF

please tell me I’m the idiot one here.

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Diaz

[starlight 14,500]

Okay now I am scared too lolz and just read on Ayatullah Sistani's  page that surrogacy is permitted.

25 minutes ago, Diaz said:

Sister Rebecca masterton talked about it too, check here https://www.al-islam.org/ask/topics/6073/questions-about-IVF

I checked on his website and there seems to be some discrepancy 

Can the sperm of a man be used to impregnate the egg of a woman, other than his wife?
- No, it is not permissible.
* Is it permissible to fertilize the egg of a wife by the sperm of her husband in a test tube, and the fertilized egg is then implanted in the wife’s womb?
- Yes, it is permissible.
* Using the same technique, is it permissible to use the egg of another woman for fertilization, and then implantation in the womb of the man’s wife?
- Yes, this too is permissible.

https://www.sistani.org/english/book/49/2422/

[Soldiers and Saffron 6,747]

1 hour ago, Diaz said:

Ok basically I watched X video because I wanted to laugh

Brother, first of all please don't give these takfiri munafiqs free publicity. Second of all, you can open up this thread and just ask around/do research on your own, I would not trust such people with anything they have to say because of the way they speak, if they were truthful they would not need to insult and use poor language.

I will inshaAllah ask a friend who is knowledgable regarding the rulings and get back to you if you have not found the answer yourself by then.

[Mohammad313Ali 1,055]

Just now, Soldiers and Saffron said:

Brother, first of all please don't give these takfiri munafiqs free publicity. Second of all, you can open up this thread and just ask around/do research on your own, I would not trust such people with anything they have to say because of the way they speak, if they were truthful they would not need to insult and use poor language.

I will inshaAllah ask a friend who is knowledgable regarding the rulings and get back to you if you have not found the answer yourself by then.

I made a thread regarding this inshallah you can all contribute

 

[Diaz 1,256]

1 hour ago, starlight said:

Okay now I am scared too lolz and just read on Ayatullah Sistani's  page that surrogacy is permitted.

I checked on his website and there seems to be some discrepancy 

Can the sperm of a man be used to impregnate the egg of a woman, other than his wife?
- No, it is not permissible.
* Is it permissible to fertilize the egg of a wife by the sperm of her husband in a test tube, and the fertilized egg is then implanted in the wife’s womb?
- Yes, it is permissible.
* Using the same technique, is it permissible to use the egg of another woman for fertilization, and then implantation in the womb of the man’s wife?
- Yes, this too is permissible.

https://www.sistani.org/english/book/49/2422/

So what should we do now? Can someone send a question to their official sites?

 

18 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

Brother, first of all please don't give these takfiri munafiqs free publicity.

I just wanted to laugh, didn’t know it will be this serious.

 

20 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

I will inshaAllah ask a friend who is knowledgable regarding the rulings and get back to you if you have not found the answer yourself by then.

What friend bro? The one who said it’s permissible is sayid Sistani and sayid khamenei, that’s what I’m worried about. 

[Soldiers and Saffron 6,747]

2 minutes ago, Diaz said:

I just wanted to laugh, didn’t know it will be this serious.

If you want to watch them on your free time thats up to you, but giving nasibis free publicity is not a good idea.

 

3 minutes ago, Diaz said:

What friend bro? The one who said it’s permissible is sayid Sistani and sayid khamenei, that’s what I’m worried about. 

Its better to confirm everything that is being said with people you trust before taking it at face value from someone relaying second or third hand information. Every link and fatwa being shown in the video needs to be confirmed by ourselves or people we trust.

[Diaz 1,256]

@Soldiers and Saffron ok bro make sure to inform me, I’m worried.

[Mohammad313Ali 1,055]

https://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01128/

 

[Gaius I. Caesar 8,689]

2 hours ago, Diaz said:

Ok basically I watched Anti-Majos video because I wanted to laugh, their latest video is about sayid Sistani and sayid khamenei accepting married women using another man’s sperm if they are doing it as IVF. They even mentioned it in their websites. 
watch the video below it’s 15 min long 

Sister Rebecca masterton talked about it too, check here https://www.al-islam.org/ask/topics/6073/questions-about-IVF

please tell me I’m the idiot one here.

 

Never watch Anti-Majos, what the heck were you thinking? 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Gaius I. Caesar

[axiom 6]

11 hours ago, starlight said:

Okay now I am scared too lolz and just read on Ayatullah Sistani's  page that surrogacy is permitted.

I checked on his website and there seems to be some discrepancy 

Can the sperm of a man be used to impregnate the egg of a woman, other than his wife?
- No, it is not permissible.
* Is it permissible to fertilize the egg of a wife by the sperm of her husband in a test tube, and the fertilized egg is then implanted in the wife’s womb?
- Yes, it is permissible.
* Using the same technique, is it permissible to use the egg of another woman for fertilization, and then implantation in the womb of the man’s wife?
- Yes, this too is permissible.

https://www.sistani.org/english/book/49/2422/

Read his page in arabic and Ayatullah Sistani says it is haram to place stranger's sperms in the womb of a woman directly. But if they take the egg out of the womb and fertilize it with the sperm of any man and place it back into the womb of the woman, then this is permissible according to him and other Shia scholars. This is what Sayyed Rashid Husseini also said.

[starlight 14,500]

9 minutes ago, axiom said:

But if they take the egg out of the womb and fertilize it with the sperm of any man and place it back into the womb of the woman, t

Thank you.

So who will be the father of the child? The one who donated the sperm, right? So it won't be the couple's child and if it's a girl she will be a namehram to the woman's husband?

[axiom 6]

55 minutes ago, starlight said:

Thank you.

So who will be the father of the child? The one who donated the sperm, right? So it won't be the couple's child and if it's a girl she will be a namehram to the woman's husband?

According to Ayatullah Sistani the sperm donor will be his biological father and the child will inherit from him and not from the husband of his mother. If a girl was born, then the husband of her mother will be her mahram. Also Sayyed Sistani said that the sperm donor can take away the child anytime if he want him/her.

[Guest Into the unknown]

On 7/26/2020 at 12:44 PM, starlight said:

e, donor gametes cannot be used and the uterus also has to be the mother's,surrogates aren't allowed. 

Actually, surrogacy (taking the couple’s egg and sperm, fertilizing it in a lab, and having another woman carry the child due to a woman’s inability to carry a child to term due to uterine abnormalities) is not haram. Artificial insemination is haram. 

Surrogacy in Iran is a very common medical procedure for women who have uterine abnormalities. 

[Haydar Husayn 10,222]

2 hours ago, Guest Into the unknown said:

Actually, surrogacy (taking the couple’s egg and sperm, fertilizing it in a lab, and having another woman carry the child due to a woman’s inability to carry a child to term due to uterine abnormalities) is not haram. Artificial insemination is haram. 

Surrogacy in Iran is a very common medical procedure for women who have uterine abnormalities. 

But according to the scholars the baby will belong to the woman that gave birth to the child, not the ‘biological’ mother.

And as has been discussed on another thread recently, artificial insemination is allowed by all scholars when it’s the husband’s own sperm, and by some scholars even when the sperm belongs to someone else.

[starlight 14,500]

3 hours ago, Guest Into the unknown said:

Actually, surrogacy (taking the couple’s egg and sperm, fertilizing it in a lab, and having another woman carry the child due to a woman’s inability to carry a child to term due to uterine abnormalities) is not haram. Artificial insemination is haram. 

Still doesn't sound right. How can you take just anyone's gametes and start making babies. 

3 hours ago, Guest Into the unknown said:

Surrogacy in Iran is a very common medical procedure for women who have uterine abnormalities. 

Very common for uterine abnormalities? How conmon exactly? Are you sure the reason is uterine abnormalities and not 'Hollywoodish' reasons( career, physique etc) because the percentage of women medically requiring a surrogate uterus is very low. 

[PureExistence1 1,158]

1 hour ago, Haydar Husayn said:

But according to the scholars the baby will belong to the woman that gave birth to the child, not the ‘biological’ mother.

This is also what i heard, that islamically, the "mother" is the woman who carries and nurtures the child with her own life force, soul, thoughts, emotions, experiences, etc. That the "mother" is not simply the person who donated the necessary dna/egg.

W/s