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Zaydif74

Imam Tawhidi: Got me 10000% here. Please HELP

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Probably a lot of us know about Imam Tawhidi - he is extremely controversial and to some very detestable Shia Imam, i have heard a lot of his videos but he finally got me today and i am very shaken at the moment. Without any pre-conceived biases and solely based on the merits of his argument i absolutely agree with him on what he is saying especially about Imam Khomeinis fatwa that he is speaking about. It is even hard to type about Khomenis fatwa being a father myself.  If its true - which it seems it is because he is showing the source and all, but again being a father myself, i am completely disgusted and how can i follow such man after i know what he said about little girls? In fact i will go a step higher and say i agree with Imam Tawhidi about EVERYTHING he is saying in this particular case and now i am feeling totally vulnerable.

What am i supposed to do about this fatwa that keeps on repeating in my head? - PLEASE LISTEN TO THIS VIDEO COMPLETELY AND THEN COMMENT, DONT WASTE MY OR YOUR TIME.

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Im not going to waste my time listening to a clown.

Is it regarding the tightening fatwa?

Just so you know, this clown has questioned the holy Quran as welll.

Also, he is not an Imam, being Imam requires schooling, he has no official hawza degree.

Edited by IbnSina

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Salams, just like brother @IbnSina, I won't bother taking time out to listen to this dude's nonsense (as would anyone else to be honest).

I assume you're probably going on about the 'thighing' verdict. The thing with this is, its a fatawā that is almost non-pliable in these recent centuries. Imam Ruhōllah Khomeinī's response on this matter was theoretical, it was not viable enough to be a practical source of order.

In addition to this, with all due respect brother, you seem confident that this so-called Sheikh is spot-on with what he's uttering, but are you aware of the fact that many of the Ulamāh that he respects and reveres have reached the same conclusion regarding this? 

(Refer to this thread on ShiaChat): 

 

'Imam' Tawhidi is a joke, he lies through his teeth, uses false narratives to suit his own agendas. Also incase you're not aware, he claims to have studied at the Hawzah Illmiyah of Qom, at Al-Mustafa International University at Masters Level. 

Funnily enough, the university released an official decleration saying that he didn't even finish his one-year priority Farsi course, let alone a Masters! (Also in this announcement, they deemed him completely unfit to do tabligh). 

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@IbnSina - so that is what it is called? Tightening Fatwa? Absolutely repulsive and absolutely disgusting if its True. Is this TRUE? No one on planet EARTH or HEAVENS above can justify or defend molestation of a minor baby girl by an adult horny male or penetration of a minor baby girl by an adult horny male or having any kind of sexual contact with a child by an adult horny male or touching the private parts of a minor baby girl by an adult horny male. I mean i am ashamed writing all this. Am i the only one disgusted to my bones by this? I have a baby girl, but don't you have daughters, or sisters or nieces? If none, don't you have some sense of basic AhleBayt (A.S) morality? You really think this teaching is coming from Muhammad and his progeny? I am surprised by your very rigid, Wahhabi type reply? It doesn't matter who said it? What matters is if what was said is the truth or a lie?

Is it TRUE?

 

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1 minute ago, Zaydif74 said:

@IbnSina - so that is what it is called? Tightening Fatwa? Absolutely repulsive and absolutely disgusting if its True. Is this TRUE? No one on planet EARTH or HEAVENS above can justify or defend molestation of a minor baby girl by an adult horny male or penetration of a minor baby girl by an adult horny male or having any kind of sexual contact with a child by an adult horny male or touching the private parts of a minor baby girl by an adult horny male. I mean i am ashamed writing all this. Am i the only one disgusted to my bones by this? I have a baby girl, but don't you have daughters, or sisters or nieces? If none, don't you have some sense of basic AhleBayt (A.S) morality? You really think this teaching is coming from Muhammad and his progeny? I am surprised by your very rigid, Wahhabi type reply? It doesn't matter who said it? What matters is if what was said is the truth or a lie?

Is it TRUE?

 

You need to calm down, sounds like you are high on your own emotions at the moment.

No point discussing anything with someone who is this emotional, take some time to calm down.

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13 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

It is only a legal technicality, something which they will never allow to take place in practice due to the obvious harm it causes to the minor.

I get your point. But, having such a fatwa is so so damaging to our society. Of course, the only type of man that would actually do this is one that is nowhere near mental stability. But, having such a fatwa would justify these type of men's actions. A man could easily come along, make a little girl his wife through some dodgy way, then proceed with thighing her, and if questioned, he has the backing of fatwas by grand ayatollahs on hand. 

Islam is a peaceful religion. Just by looking at the foundation and key beliefs of Islam, you can tell that thighing is not something god would permit. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Amira00 said:

 Of course, the only type of man that would actually do this is one that is nowhere near mental stability. But, having such a fatwa would justify these type of men's actions. A man could easily come along, make a little girl his wife through some dodgy way, then proceed with thighing her, and if questioned, he has the backing of fatwas by grand ayatollahs on hand. 

 

I doubt a man of that nature would give a damn about religion to begin with. Nor the parents who would marry of their daughter to such a man.

Edited by IbnSina

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I will go ahead and paste the reply I replied in the earlier thread about this topic, there is literally so many threads about this topic at this point. Too bad people refuse to use the search function. Personally I believe the question giving the fatwa was not asked in a sincere manner but a sinister one:

 

The question was asked as a rhetorical question to a hypothetical situation in a discussion of fiqh and as such a rhetorical answer was given to a hypothetical situation with regards to fiqh.

Now to begin with, what parent would marry off their daughter thats, lets say 4 years old?

Would such a person, a 4 year old, be able to approve of the marriage? If not, then the marriage is not valid to begin with.

Furthermore, what kind of adult man would want to marry a 4 year old to begin with? One must question that mans mental health before anything ells.

Etc, etc.

Basically, to my knowledge, it was a rhetorical question to a hypothetical situation that will never happen because of the reality of reality. That does not mean that there would not be a islamic ruling about the matter if it was to ever happen even if it in reality wont.

Now to give some general advise about this or situations like this general when we find something that we really do not agree with at all.

We should remain our calm and study the matter further, some times it could be so that what the interpreter of a text understands it different from what the author meant. Furthermore if, like in this situation, Imam Khomeini(RA) wrote a fatwa that you do not agree with but you have read numerous other fatwas from him that you DO agree with and you have studied his personality and his biography and you have found him to be a noble and admirable person - then please reserve the right that you may have misjudged the circumstances of the situation that you find disturbing - rather than condemning a person as a whole even though he said 100 000 other things that you found reasonable.

It is like those atheists who would condemn the whole of the holy Quran and Islam as a religion based on one or two verses taken out of context and given a twisted understanding based on their preconceived notion of the religion and religions as a whole, disregarding the rest of the holy Quran that promotes racial equality, justice, mercy, helping the poor, feeding the needy, freeing the slaves, not wronging others, not back biting, giving charity, etc, etc.

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1 minute ago, IbnSina said:

I will go ahead and paste the reply I replied in the earlier thread about this topic, there is literally so many threads about this topic at this point. Too bad people refuse to use the search function. Personally I believe the question giving the fatwa was not asked in a sincere manner but a sinister one:

 

The question was asked as a rhetorical question to a hypothetical situation in a discussion of fiqh and as such a rhetorical answer was given to a hypothetical situation with regards to fiqh.

Now to begin with, what parent would marry off their daughter thats, lets say 4 years old?

Would such a person, a 4 year old, be able to approve of the marriage? If not, then the marriage is not valid to begin with.

Furthermore, what kind of adult man would want to marry a 4 year old to begin with? One must question that mans mental health before anything ells.

Etc, etc.

Basically, to my knowledge, it was a rhetorical question to a hypothetical situation that will never happen because of the reality of reality. That does not mean that there would not be a islamic ruling about the matter if it was to ever happen even if it in reality wont.

Now to give some general advise about this or situations like this general when we find something that we really do not agree with at all.

We should remain our calm and study the matter further, some times it could be so that what the interpreter of a text understands it different from what the author meant. Furthermore if, like in this situation, Imam Khomeini(RA) wrote a fatwa that you do not agree with but you have read numerous other fatwas from him that you DO agree with and you have studied his personality and his biography and you have found him to be a noble and admirable person - then please reserve the right that you may have misjudged the circumstances of the situation that you find disturbing - rather than condemning a person as a whole even though he said 100 000 other things that you found reasonable.

It is like those atheists who would condemn the whole of the holy Quran and Islam as a religion based on one or two verses taken out of context and given a twisted understanding based on their preconceived notion of the religion and religions as a whole, disregarding the rest of the holy Quran that promotes racial equality, justice, mercy, helping the poor, feeding the needy, freeing the slaves, not wronging others, not back biting, giving charity, etc, etc.

I also posted in the other thread about tawhidi and researched a lot about it beforehand, so I'm not making random assumptions. 

Many, many people manipulate  religion to get what they want. The most obvious example is ISIS and other terrorist groups who take Hadiths and verses from the Quran and manipulate and misinterpret them to benefit themselves. They are also "Muslims" by name.  

So, many ordinary "muslims" will make use of such fatwas to benefit themselves. I'm not saying they're true good muslims, but when they have the backing of the likes of Sistani, Khomeini and Khoei -who all hold great power and influence- they haven't done anything wrong. Because those ayatollahs allow it. So pedophelia will become an accepted norm in many of our home countries in the Middle East and Asia. 

When you spoke about "what kind of parents would marry off..." child marriages are still very frequent, especially in Asia and the Middle East. So, once again, greatly disturbed men won't be necessarily doing anything wrong in the eyes of the ayatollahs when they are abusing a baby girl. 

Also, where is the proof that this fatwa was made for purely hypothetical purposes? I searched for so long and could find hardly anything about this fatwa. I even emailed the Sistani management team and asked about the meaning and reasoning behind this fatwa and got nothing back. I asked about 1/2 months ago.  And even if you do find proof that the marjas released these fatwas for hypothetical reasons, why is child marriage even considered? Child marriages have become stigmatized in most parts of the world now, in the past (centuries ago) men used to marry off their young daughters for the sake of money and status, but thankfully we've moved on from that. 

 

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40 minutes ago, Amira00 said:

Child marriages have become stigmatized in most parts of the world now, in the past (centuries ago) men used to marry off their young daughters for the sake of money and status, but thankfully we've moved on from that. 

It is a precaution fatwa not an obligatory ,that causes peoples that still do it as tribal tradition don’t commit child abuse at least we have rules for this cases which Sunni communities suffer from lack of any rule about it.

child abuse in Arab societies

https://youtu.be/fJCrV0bBDeU

Child maariage in Arab community & problem of divorce 

https://youtu.be/4GRHD7nmWz0

 

Nujood Ali gets divorce at age of ten

 

 

child marriage & rape in Yemen 

 

 

She also has a book about it that I read it’s Farsi translation.

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

It is a precaution fatwa not an obligatory ,that causes peoples that still do it as tribal tradition don’t commit child abuse at least we have rules for this cases which Sunni communities suffer from lack of any rule about it.

child abuse in Arab societies

https://youtu.be/fJCrV0bBDeU

Child maariage in Arab community & problem of divorce 

https://youtu.be/4GRHD7nmWz0

 

Nujood Ali gets divorce at age of ten

 

 

 

child marriage & rape in Yemen 

 

 

She also has a book about it that I read it’s Farsi translation.

 

Having a ruling about child marriage is good, better than not having one at all...unless it permits the thighing of a baby. So, in this case, id rather that there was no ruling on child marriages than have one permissing the abuse of an innocent child through "marriage".

Edited by Amira00

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1 hour ago, Amira00 said:

Having a ruling about child marriage is good, better than not having one at all...unless it permits the thighing of a baby. So, in this case, id rather that there was no ruling on child marriages than have one permissing the abuse of an innocent child through "marriage".

Nobody will ever marry a baby, no parent will ever marry off their baby to an adult, unless they are mentally unstable in which case Islamic rulings makes no difference to begin with. Finally, no baby can give their consent, rendering the marriage void.

 

If you want to abuse religion then you may do so but it is not the religions fault, rather the persons abusing it.

Edited by IbnSina

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11 hours ago, Amira00 said:

I get your point. But, having such a fatwa is so so damaging to our society. Of course, the only type of man that would actually do this is one that is nowhere near mental stability. But, having such a fatwa would justify these type of men's actions. A man could easily come along, make a little girl his wife through some dodgy way, then proceed with thighing her, and if questioned, he has the backing of fatwas by grand ayatollahs on hand. 

Islam is a peaceful religion. Just by looking at the foundation and key beliefs of Islam, you can tell that thighing is not something god would permit. 

 

Salam dear sister,

There is absolutely no way a pervert can abuse this fatwa. The maraja have also stated that this isn't allowed if it harms the minor, which it obviously and inevitably does, so it is haram. You see, the shield of the secondary conditions protecting the child is impenetrable.
The only reason the maraja have this fatwa in the first place is because they cant outright forbid it due to a legal technicality.

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9 hours ago, Amira00 said:

Having a ruling about child marriage is good, better than not having one at all...unless it permits the thighing of a baby. So, in this case, id rather that there was no ruling on child marriages than have one permissing the abuse of an innocent child through "marriage".

Its a cultural & poverty matter so takes a long time to everybody accepts it but these type of Fatwas may be  looks like disgusting but provide partly protection for kids in this condition.

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