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In the Name of God بسم الله
Jaffar_is_in_use

Do you prefer the current "Islamic Regime" or shah

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Mohammed Reza shah to me was thousand times better the the current so called "Islamic Regime". If you lot had a decision to pick one which one would it be and why with an actual valid reason.

My reason is simple. Today in Iran 70% of the ministers in the government so call themselves Muslim so that they can scam the people. I do not see anything Islamic about the current regime (oh other than the stupid Obligatory hijab law). There is literally nothing Islamic about them and they couldn't care less about the state that people are in. The people that scammed the life out of my dad that looked the most Muslim and seemed most muslim. One was a head of some big place the other was a sheikh and they both would not miss prayers by one second as soon as Adhan is said ( This is not only my dads experience but many other people are in this situation). Islam in Iran is just visual stuff. Like hijab, Ashura (then teenagers go out with girls right after its done) it only looks Islamic but if you talk about true Islam like Imam Ali's time (As) where the government is willing to stop poverty and help the poor and stop the insane amount of scamming and much more then that would be Islam. This goes to a majority of Iranian but NOT ALL OF THEM. I have been lucky enough to live in both places and believe it or not the UK seems more Islamic then the Current Iran. But if you compare these So called Islamic leaders that god knows how many of million of dollars the get (steal) a day; more than enough to help millions of poor people in Iran, to the Shah properly you would see a difference. The shah loved his people and was understanding.Not the smartest nor the best but he cared about people. These days the reason people are getting into politics is money. Did you see the interview of that guy. Before he got into the Iranian government he hardly afforded a Bicycle. Now he affords Castle and Villas. Same did the Shah but he could help his nation and people could wear what they want and each go towards their life. I can go on for years but this is an Extremely short Paragraph about Irans current Situation. Another last example is the cars. Do I need to go on from there... The cars that are manufactured in Iran are from 40 years ago and are unsafer than god knows what. If the government truly loved its people would it really allow its people to go around in moving graveyards while he is in multi million dollar cars. This is extremely vague but just an overall view simply.

This post is not meant to be anything serious but would be interesting to see people opinions.

And because I know I will be asked, Even though I am a very religious Muslim myself I believe the Hijab law is stupid. A law that would have been much smarter would have been modest dressing. You simply cannot force a country with 80 million people to wear the Hijab. There will be millions out there that are not muslim and should not want to wear the hijab but dress modestly.

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This should be a question for Iranians to answer really. I am Shia, but as someone who doesn't live in Iran, nor will I probably ever live there, Iran's internal affairs should not be upto me or any other Shia who isn't Iranian. I find it quite hypocritical for people to be dismissive of economic issues and corruption within Iran while living comfortable lives in the West. There is corruption within Iran for sure, and being an Islamic Republic doesn't change this fact. I would disagree with you on the Shah though, the revolution wouldn't have happened if the Shah had been popular, and he was unpopular because despite the fact that he did not impose religious law, he lived in a world apart from the people, just look at his palace, and look at how majority of Iranians lived. The economic conditions in Iran just looking at statistics have improved though not nearly as much as they should've, inequality levels have fallen (gini coefficient of 0.45, compared to 0.55 before the revolution), but this has stagnated since the 1980's, so it seems like it hasn't improved much since immediately after the revolution. Poverty levels have fallen overall but it seemed that Ahmadinejad's policies have created more of it, according to statistics at least. The Islamic Republic's biggest achievement is perhaps education, especially for rural communities and women. There has also been an improvement in provision of health and basic services to rural communities compared to the Shah's time.

I think the biggest challenge in economies like Iran is they are too reliant on oil, and in resource reliant economies, this revenue ends up in hands of the elite, and doesn't trickle down to all levels of society. Iran has been unsuccessful in bringing in enough investment into the country, partly because of US sanctions, but also because of corruption, not enough money invested into the economy, and a lot going into pockets of corrupt officials. Also, when economic growth is reliant on the price of oil, not on productivity which can only come about if there are enough opportunities for people in the job market (lacking due to lack of investment, both foreign and domestic), it will be hard to curb things like inflation. Iran's inflation is still pretty high at 9%. Also, there is practically no demand for Iran's currency, mainly because of uncertainty with the nuclear deal and lack of foreign investment which is causing it to depreciate in value. 

I wouldn't agree that the Shah was good for Iran, he is romanticized because people hate the Islamic Republic, so they have a yearning for something else, but many of them didn't even live in the Shah's Iran, so it probably is more of a feeling of the grass is greener on the other side. However, that of course does not mean the current government is anywhere near perfect. 

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I would like to state first off I'm not Iranian, but I have close relations with the Iranians at my local mosque and online that still live in Iran. So what I'm about to say is heavily based on their sayings. The modern Islamic republic is miles ahead of the Shah's government but, that doesn't mean much. I'm saying the Islamic republic has done better things than the Shah's government including, increasing scientific and acedamic literacy. But thats about it. The economic situation is a disgrace to how the Shah would've run it, its so bad youth leave by the thousands a month to embark to other nations for opportunities that should be in their nations if resourced correctly even under sanctions. Remember Khomeini said, "economics is for donkeys." Those at the top preach of Islamic values but none of them follow it let alone what they preach to the public, (looking at you Khamenei). Just like the Shah's regime the modern Islamic republic commits mass torturings and human rights violations (sounding like the Shah already). They oppress their own citizens by using religion which in turn makes the youth dislike religion most notoriously the hijab rule on women. Also they don't want to allow referendum for or aganist the Islamic Republic because they know if they do it'll cease to exist the next day.

The Iranian people are the most ancient, intelligent, and proud people of the Middle East, they deserve much better than tyrannical dictators, unfortunately the west interfered in 1953 overthrowing Mossadegh, which lead to the Shah selling his nation to foreigners which lead to the revolution you all glorify and then now so the Iranian people have suffered under oppression for more then half a century by now.

However like I said I'm not Iranian I'll leave it to Iranians to decide their fates but I have a gut feeling it won't be with the Islamic republic espeically with the decrease of younger people's pateince.

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Jaffar you are wasting your time! Don't know where to start, but you are 125% wrong... won't waste much of my time here.. And how come you brought up a guy 'shah' from decades ago who is long gone and no benefit for any discussion in current times?!?! So what if he was better?

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As a Persian American who had lived in Iran for a few years, I can attest that people who claim to be Muslim scam people. 

Its all about money for them and conning those who have good intentions. May Allah ruin oppressors and con-artists.

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On 4/26/2018 at 1:14 PM, Jaffar_is_in_use said:

But if you compare these So called Islamic leaders that god knows how many of million of dollars the get (steal) a day;

As a Persian, I don’t agree with half of what you are saying:

Brother, as a Muslim, don’t accuse any one of anything (unless proven) , that’s a sin. You said that about the leaders.

On 4/26/2018 at 1:14 PM, Jaffar_is_in_use said:

more than enough to help millions of poor people in Iran, to the Shah properly you would see a difference. The shah loved his people

Then you say shah loved his people and didn’t steal ?! Did you know when he wanted to depart from Iran he stole about estimation 1 billion dollars of jewelry of our country with himself in his airplane?! Did you know by that money his son here in America and his wife in France are having a luxurious life?!

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On 4/26/2018 at 10:36 PM, Forgottenthinker said:

 Remember Khomeini said, "economics is for donkeys."

He never said it. He said that a donkey only thinks of its economy (what it eats and other things are not important for it).

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I would like to answer this question in completely different perspective-

First of all I would like to tell you that I am neither an Iranian nor ever visited but surely will visit one day Insha Allah. 

Problem with majority of muslim umma'h was/is always with righteous people or with the people who used to try to be righteous but they never dared to question or challenge the rulers who were/are oppressors/tyrants. 

I am not saying that there are no problems in Iran or they cant be tackled and solved...

Do you remember Mukhtar e Thakafi and his government? He was the first person in history who tried to build nation based on teachings of AhleBait (as). People who were repenting for not supporting Imam Husain (as) helped him to take revenge of Karbala and he and his army did that with courage and elan. though people of Kufa later on deserted him, even his close associates and army men not supported him against Banu Zubair invasion on Kufa. 

learn from history and try to solve the issue in whatever way you/me or we can do rather accusing and helping the enemies of Islam as people did same in different era..

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This argument is as unimpressive as it could be. A load of baseless slander and unfounded allegations against the leadership.

Won't corruption still persist if there was a regime change in Iran? Or are you trying to suggest that somehow the people's hearts would change magically?

The Shah loved the people? How uninformed a person has to be to make such a comment! How he was selling out his country's lands and resources to the imperialists, massacring crowds upon crowds, and siphoning off national wealth to his private bank accounts in the West shows just how much he 'loved' his people.

I find it amusing that the only people who favor the destruction and collapse of the Islamic Republic are the pseudo-Shia taqleedi secularist-modernists, fugitive royalists living in the States, left-liberal fifth columnists, hawkish imperialists and pro-imperialists, the nawasib, the self-obsessed phony intellectuals, and the intellectually-dysfunctional, emotional-wreck hormonal teenagers who can't tell apart Imam Ali (as) from Imam Ali ar-Rida (as) or Ali an-Naqi al-Hadi (as). They don't have a modicum of knowledge about Islam or the Ja'fari madhab, don't know a scratch about the affairs of the Shia, and struggle to do their wajibat, but they salivate at the slightest opportunity to slander the Islamic republic, and go about spreading their garbage all over the internet.

Nobody is saying the administrative system is perfect. It has lots of leakages and problems and needs vital reforms. Constructive criticism is way different from unfounded slander and libel. I know there are gaping holes in the system, but I also know that the reason why the Zionists are not dancing in Beirut, the reason why the shrines in Najaf, Karbala, Samrarra, Baghdad,and Damascus have not been razed to the ground like al-Baqi,the reason why the Shia in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Bahrain have not been exterminated,and in fact, the reason why the Shia have a mention in the Western academia and a backbone in international relations today is the Islamic Republic and the Blessed Revolution of Imam al-Khumayni [rh].

And those who are saying that the Shariah of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى ought not to be implemented just because it causes inconvenience to some munafiqeen and dunderheads need to prepare themselves for  the Night in the Grave. Do the Imperialists bother about our consent when they send money from our taxes to fund our enemy nations over and above our loud protests? Did Switzerland bother to seek the consent of Muslims before she banned minarets throughout the length and breadth of her territory? Did France bother to seek the Muslims' consent before banning hijab, or forcing Muslim shopkeepers and restaurant owners to sell pork and alcohol in their establishments on the peril of being denied their licences, and forcing women to shake hands with unrelated men? They are very clear about these policies- if you don't like our laws, don't sign up to live here. Muslims too need to reply likewise to the fifth columnists- if you don't like the laws, feel free to leave.

I am always at the forefront of opposing blind opposition to the West, nor do I believe in the 'clash of civilizations' nonsense. There are many features of the Western civilization that I admire - the regard for institutions, the deep regard for knowledge and learning for the sake of knowledge itself, past any vulgar utilitarian or status-quoist concern, and the robust tradition of private philanthropy and welfarism. All the same, I feel little reason to change my beliefs and convictions just because they don't happen to appeal to secular liberal sensibilities.

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 The original quote which is part of a speech made in 1979:

    "No wise person would sacrifice his young offspring for [say] affordable housing. People [on the contrary] want everything for their young offspring. Human being wants economy for his own self; it would therefore be unwise for him to spare his life in order to improve economy [...] Those who keep bringing up economy and find economy the infrastructure of everything -not knowing what human[ity] means- think of human being as an animal who is defined by means of food and clothes[...] Those who find economy the infrastructure of everything, find human beings animals. Animal too sacrifices everything for its economy and economy is its sole infrastructure. A donkey too considers economy as its only infrastructure. These people did not realize what human being [truly] is."

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What is this piece of garbage rant?

As an Iranian I would like to ask all the non Iranians to keep the ignorant and uneducated opinions on internal matters regarding Iran and the Iranian people to themselves. We do not need outsiders to think for us or to speak on our behalf. We are, as we have proven, more than capable of taking our destiny into our own hands.

Speak of Mossadegh and I might give you an inch of respect but anyone that would say that the shah was better do not know the first thing about history, politics nor religion.

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On 4/27/2018 at 3:45 AM, shadow_of_light said:

 The original quote which is part of a speech made in 1979:

    "No wise person would sacrifice his young offspring for [say] affordable housing. People [on the contrary] want everything for their young offspring. Human being wants economy for his own self; it would therefore be unwise for him to spare his life in order to improve economy [...] Those who keep bringing up economy and find economy the infrastructure of everything -not knowing what human[ity] means- think of human being as an animal who is defined by means of food and clothes[...] Those who find economy the infrastructure of everything, find human beings animals. Animal too sacrifices everything for its economy and economy is its sole infrastructure. A donkey too considers economy as its only infrastructure. These people did not realize what human being [truly] is."

It is truly disgusting how some people would give such misleading and false quotes, alhamdulillah for people like you who fight this disgusting behavior with truth.

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10 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

We do not need outsiders to think for us or to speak on our behalf. We are, as we have proven, more than capable of taking our destiny into our own hands.

This is hilarious from an Islamic Republic apologist, the Islamist government interfers in Iraq's affairs all the time. But I agree no nation should interfer in another nation's affairs so to start off tell your government stay out of our affairs. Also you live in Sweden your opinions on the Islamic republic are void.

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2 minutes ago, Forgottenthinker said:

This is hilarious from an Islamic Republic apologist, the Islamist government interfers in Iraq's affairs all the time. But I agree no nation should interfer in another nation's affairs so to start off tell your government stay out of our affairs. Also you live in Sweden your opinions on the Islamic republic are void.

Cool story bro, go tell it to someone who cares about your opinion.

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Just now, IbnSina said:

Cool story bro, go tell it to someone who cares about your opinion.

Haha the hypocrisy is real you just avoided the fact your precious Islamic republic interfers in Iraq's affairs while you said none Iranians should stay out of Iran's affairs. You're low key funny :) 

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Just now, Forgottenthinker said:

Haha the hypocrisy is real you just avoided the fact your precious Islamic republic interfers in Iraq's affairs while you said none Iranians should stay out of Iran's affairs. You're low key funny :) 

You think because I am not replying that I do not have a reply? I am not interested in having a discussion with you.

I have seen you exaggerate and lie before in earlier discussions and I am not interested in talking to someone who lies and exaggerates. Please refrain from talking to me, I truly do not enjoy your existence.

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Just now, IbnSina said:

ou think because I am not replying that I do not have a reply? I am not interested in having a discussion with you.

I have seen you exaggerate and lie before in earlier discussions and I am not interested in talking to someone who lies and exaggerates. Please refrain from talking to me, I truly do not enjoy your existence.

Good then, I dont want my inbox exploded with your little rants on how great the Islamic Republic is and how I'm a Masonic Zionist Shah loving jew

the end of this between us :) 

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10 minutes ago, Forgottenthinker said:

Good then, I dont want my inbox exploded with your little rants on how great the Islamic Republic is and how I'm a Masonic Zionist Shah loving jew

the end of this between us :) 

but you have the same thought process.. same opinions... 

anyway anyone who calls themselves a "thinker" and cant recognize Imam Khomeini's greatness and worth to our era of islam is delusional.

you would fit well in a salafi forum.. spare us your thoughts

Edited by kirtc

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