Donating Blood instead of Tatbir

[MuslimahAK]

Bismillah ir Arahman ir Rahim

Salamu Alaikum!

I have several questions. 

1. Do Shi'a do Tatbir to give a blood sacrifice for Ahlul bayt to have their du'a answered?

2. Can I donate blood instead for Ashura? And would it count as blood sacrifice?

Shukran. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

1.Tatbir doesn't has any religional base its just a bad tradition. 

2.the best thing is donating blood for Ahlubayt (as) & is a great sacrifice.

[muhibb-ali]

Wa Alaykum Salam Wa Rahmatullah

1) Tatbir is something done out of love for Imam Husain (as) to show that had they been in Karbala they would have sacrificed their lives for the Imam (as) and the person doing it will be rewarded.

2) Blood donation is a good act done by people across religions and it need not be limited to doing it on Ashura only, it can be done as and when needed.

[zionismdestroyer]

On ‎26‎.‎04‎.‎2018 at 8:29 AM, muhibb-ali said:

Wa Alaykum Salam Wa Rahmatullah

1) Tatbir is something done out of love for Imam Husain (as) to show that had they been in Karbala they would have sacrificed their lives for the Imam (as) and the person doing it will be rewarded.

2) Blood donation is a good act done by people across religions and it need not be limited to doing it on Ashura only, it can be done as and when needed.

no tatbir is bad tradition only nothing to do with Shia Islam

[Waseem162]

On 4/25/2018 at 2:42 PM, MuslimahAK said:

Bismillah ir Arahman ir Rahim

Salamu Alaikum!

I have several questions. 

1. Do Shi'a do Tatbir to give a blood sacrifice for Ahlul bayt to have their du'a answered?

2. Can I donate blood instead for Ashura? And would it count as blood sacrifice?

Shukran. 

It is natural that Tatbir is NOT ISLAMIC..

If Tatbir is for men then what for women??

Jihad is for men and women both. 

Fasting, Praying, Hajj, Khums, Zakat, etc are both for men and women..

Men and Women enjoy same spiritual status in the eyes of Allah..

So if you see that a so called "ibadah" can be done by man/women and not by the other gender then try to research that if it is from Allah then what is the alternative for the left gender??

You'll find that most of the baseless traditions are filtered out by this technique..

Donating blood is a Charity and highly rewarding act and should be done anytime needed with the Niyah of Qubatan Ilallah  

[Urwatul Wuthqa]

On 4/25/2018 at 11:42 PM, MuslimahAK said:

1. Do Shi'a do Tatbir to give a blood sacrifice for Ahlul bayt to have their du'a answered?

As far as I know, no one do tatbir for getting the answer for his dua. There is no greed or personal interest in doing blood matam. 

There is only & only one purpose for doing tatbir or other types of blood matam i.e., if we (the person doing such act not me) were with the Imam Hussain (asws), we would have shed our blood in helping him. 
This is what I know & it does not mean that I am a supporter of any sort of blood matam. Some scholars are silence on it & some are allowing it and there is a majority of scholars who have prohibited such practices so it is a disputed matter among scholars as they are not prohibiting it unanimously. This would also means that the reasons which Ayatullah Khamenei or Ayatullah Nasir Mukarem Shirazi etc are giving for declaring it haram, some scholars are not satisfied with those reasons & perhaps that is the only reason why they are allowing such practices.

If we ask anyone to stop doing tatbir, he will tell you the names of Ayatullah Bashir Najafi, Ayatullah Sadiq Shirazi etc and say that their marja allow this. I don't understand why not these maraje' karam sit & discuss this matter in detail & come to a unanimous conclusion about it. 
 

Edited April 28, 2018 by Salsabeel

[Ashvazdanghe]

11 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Ayatullah Sadiq Shirazi etc and say that their marja allow this.

He is infamous as British Shia. 

[Urwatul Wuthqa]

2 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

He is infamous as British Shia. 

I know about him, for me the only reason for respecting him is that he is a scholar with a designation of grand ayatullah. 

[2Timeless]

On 27/04/2018 at 3:37 PM, Waseem162 said:

If Tatbir is for men then what for women??

I know of women who also do tatbir, like its not non existent. Both men and women do tatbir.

[Soldiers and Saffron]

35 minutes ago, Amira00 said:

I know of women who also do tatbir, like its not non existent. Both men and women do tatbir.

And both are stupid.

[2Timeless]

15 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

And both are stupid.

I agree that it's not a good act and wrong on so many levels. But I don't think it's right to make that assumption. I don't know about you, but I still don't know why people do it, I think it would be good for people who do tatbir to explain why they do, either in this thread or another one.

[Soldiers and Saffron]

Just now, Amira00 said:

I agree that it's not a good act and wrong on so many levels. But I don't think it's right to make that assumption. I don't know about you, but I still don't know why people do it, I think it would be good for people who do tatbir to explain why they do, either in this thread or another one.

I know why they do it and their argument does not hold nor does it justify the action. It literally has no islamic basis.

[2Timeless]

1 minute ago, IbnSina said:

I know why they do it and their argument does not hold nor does it justify the action. It literally has no islamic basis.

What is their argument? I've generally heard that they do it to show their support and how they'd sacrifice themselves for the Imam.

[Soldiers and Saffron]

2 minutes ago, Amira00 said:

What is their argument? I've generally heard that they do it to show their support and how they'd sacrifice themselves for the Imam.

It is done out of love for Hussein(as).

[Ashvazdanghe]

11 hours ago, Amira00 said:

What is their argument? I've generally heard that they do it to show their support and how they'd sacrifice themselves for the Imam.

maybe they have good intention ,but its result is not good for Shias ,if they want to sacrifice for the Imam they must increase their knowledge & also prepare themselves for fighting with enemies of Imam of our time.

[MuslimahAK]

Oh ok. I think I'll just stick to donating to the poor and donating blood, even though I hate needles. I am not rich so I feel that this is what little I CAN actually contribute, so to speak.

[zionismdestroyer]

tatbir is done by extremist Shias only who are against Shia Islam and want to damage the name of Shia Islam they are doing like crazy People and Islam is Deen of Fitrah and tatbir is against Our nature no one take swords out and hit his head when someone Family member dies its all rubbish thing it must be stopped and People should donate their blood and no Imam AS never did tatbir its Bidah and its no verse in Quran supporting it so its ignorance only why Waste Our blood in road and mosques when we can use it for great cause and wasting blood is Haraam its must be used for useful Things and blood is najis also.

[Urwatul Wuthqa]

52 minutes ago, zionismdestroyer said:

they are doing like crazy People

What fiqh says about issuing "hadd" on crazy (majnoon) people? 
 

54 minutes ago, zionismdestroyer said:

Islam is Deen of Fitrah and tatbir is against Our nature

Tell me one more thing, is craziness is in our fitrah? 

[Urwatul Wuthqa]

On 5/8/2018 at 4:33 AM, zionismdestroyer said:

People should donate their blood

Donating blood is in our fitrah?

[zionismdestroyer]

30 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Donating blood is in our fitrah?

 

it seems like you are mi6 agent so please mind your own buisness and dont talk with me tatbir is against our nature its proven thing so it means tatbir only crazy people do so yeah how can we do it then  donating blood is not Our fitrah but helping other is our fitrah

[Urwatul Wuthqa]

On 5/8/2018 at 6:04 AM, zionismdestroyer said:

it seems like you are mi6 agent

On 5/8/2018 at 6:04 AM, zionismdestroyer said:

so it means tatbir only crazy people do

Can a "crazy" become enemy of Shia Islam? 

On 5/8/2018 at 4:33 AM, zionismdestroyer said:

tatbir is done by extremist Shias only who are against Shia Islam and want to damage the name of Shia Islam

[Anonymous2144]

On 4/25/2018 at 2:42 PM, MuslimahAK said:

Bismillah ir Arahman ir Rahim

Salamu Alaikum!

I have several questions. 

1. Do Shi'a do Tatbir to give a blood sacrifice for Ahlul bayt to have their du'a answered?

2. Can I donate blood instead for Ashura? And would it count as blood sacrifice?

Shukran. 

1. Tatbir was made up it has no basis in Shi’a Islam

2. Donating blood is very rewarding especially in the month of ashura, a lot of scholars have recommended people to do donate blood to the poor and hospitals. 

Heres a video explaing the myth of tatbir

[Ashvazdanghe]

2 hours ago, zionismdestroyer said:

tatbir is done by extremist Shias only who are against Shia Islam and want to damage the name of Shia Islam

All of them are not extremists but it is using by a group of Extremists,they benefit from simplesti & emotions of people to keep them in Ignorance.

[zionismdestroyer]

Just now, Ashvazdanghe said:

All of them are not extremists but it is using by a group of Extremists,they benefit from simplesti & emotions of people to keep them in Ignorance.

you are legend Brother good answer you give all the time

[Urwatul Wuthqa]

11 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

All of them are not extremists but it is using by a group of Extremists,they benefit from simplesti & emotions of people to keep them in Ignorance.

This is a better approach. Appreciate

[Ashvazdanghe]

Is Tatbir a part of Shia Islam !? (Eng & Arabic sub) 

 Tatbir (Masar)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXU7w5ENk8aXncp9m3eysXO5ejx8BpSPq

[2Timeless]

5 hours ago, zionismdestroyer said:

it seems like you are mi6 agent so please mind your own buisness and dont talk with me tatbir is against our nature its proven thing so it means tatbir only crazy people do so yeah how can we do it then  donating blood is not Our fitrah but helping other is our fitrah

I don't agree with tatbir myself, but I get why people generally do it. I'm not saying it's right, but I'm not calling them crazy ignorants either. 

Its only natural to feel strongly after listening to the tragedy of Karbala, it's a tragedy. It makes people feel sad - to say the least- and what makes people feel even worse is that it happened to the progeny of the prophet who were sincere and innocent people. So, it is understandable that many people would go to measures such as tatbir to express their sorrow for ahl al bayt. 

Everyone expresses themselves differently.  ( I'm not going to get into whether it's halal or haram -I'm not knowledgeable to decide on that). By you labelling people as "crazies" just because they don't ascribe to your own beliefs is quite ironic. You probably think you're being 'open-minded' by attacking Shias who do tatbir- a questionable act- but in reality you're displaying the same ideology of the likes of Trump when you show a complete intolerance to people who don't agree with you. 

You can have a debate, just respect the people around you. Listen to what they have to say, and see if you still hold the same close minded beliefs.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Amira00

[Sirius_Bright]

On 4/29/2018 at 1:52 AM, IbnSina said:

And both are stupid.

Wow. Didn't expected from you. 

[Soldiers and Saffron]

32 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Wow. Didn't expected from you. 

Would you say cutting yourself open in that manner is a intellectual action?

Because a action is either a intellectual action or a nonintellectual action. And someone who practices a nonintellectual action is usually defined as stupid.

Tatbir as a practice has no islamic backing, it is not the sunnah of any of our Imams(as) nor the teachings of any of our Imams(as). Its roots are most likely non islamic dating back to heathen practices. If the people want to bleed of Hussein(as), they can go for Islamic jihad but they will not.

I asked a question on this forum before regarding this matter and it highlighted the underlying mentality of the practice, it is a form of boasting to each other about how much they care for Hussein(as). If all tatbir was to be announced as haram unless it was done in secret in the homes and without any company, i.e. you have to stand alone in your room and do it without anyone watching you, then for sure nobody on earth would do tatbir anymore.

Tatbir as a practice is not a Islamic practice, that is all we need to know in order to make our decision whether we should perform it or not.

It is truly a shame that people want to attribute the path of Ahlul Bayt(as), the intellectual and dignified path, with such barbaric behavior. 

I wonder what our Imam(ajf) will say about this matter when he returns and what he will say to the people that on very loose and unstable grounds wanted to attribute the practice to path of love for Ahlul Bayt(as).

[Soldiers and Saffron]

Lets all review what we are discussing here shall we?

 

Is this a dignified way of behaving? Would Hussein(as) be happy about this? Is this what Hussein(as) wanted from us?

[Sirius_Bright]

24 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

Because a action is either a intellectual action or a nonintellectual action. And someone who practices a nonintellectual action is usually defined as stupid.

Let's put this into perspective. There are maraja's who are not against tatbir and there are many who allows it. If you categorize this as a non-intellectual action, you are implying that those scholars who have allowed it are stupid. You would want to think again.

28 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

Tatbir as a practice has no islamic backing, it is not the sunnah of any of our Imams(as) nor the teachings of any of our Imams(as). Its roots are most likely non islamic dating back to heathen practices. If the people want to bleed of Hussein(as), they can go for Islamic jihad but they will not.

You have zero authority to decide for others whether a practice has Islamic backing or not, especially when representatives of Imam (atfs) have approved of it for their Muqallids. Islamic Jihad (offensive) is debatable, in defense it has ajr. Haven't you seen Iraqi fighters doing tatbir on 10th of Muharram. Tatbir + Islamic Jihad.

34 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

I asked a question on this forum before regarding this matter and it highlighted the underlying mentality of the practice, it is a form of boasting to each other about how much they care for Hussein(as).

Intentions are in the heart. I don't know what question you are referring to but even if someone made it felt like that you cannot generalize. Allah knows the secrets of the heart, you don't. If it wasn't boasting and pure love for Imam Hussain (a.s.) then be ready to answer for all you accused of.

40 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

If all tatbir was to be announced as haram unless it was done in secret in the homes and without any company, i.e. you have to stand alone in your room and do it without anyone watching you, then for sure nobody on earth would do tatbir anymore.

I don't know about an individual alone in the room but I, for sure, know places where it is practiced in closed quarters, away from common public and cameras.You don't know of a thing doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

45 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

I wonder what our Imam(ajf) will say about this matter when he returns and what he will say to the people that on very loose and unstable grounds wanted to attribute the practice to path of love for Ahlul Bayt(as)

If you are not sure you should only wonder and not come to a decision of making a thing haraam. Also, wonder what you will answer him if he approves bleeding for his jadd, Imam Hussain (a.s.), for Imam (atfs) himself cries blood.

“I will, therefore, lament you morning and evening, and will weep blood in place of tears, out of my anguish for you and my sorrow for all that befell you ..”

(Ziyarate Nahiya)

[Ashvazdanghe]

16 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

“I will, therefore, lament you morning and evening, and will weep blood in place of tears, out of my anguish for you and my sorrow for all that befell you ..”

(Ziyarate Nahiya)

But he doesn’t do Tatbir & he is our greatest Marja why you don’t follow him , it said & approved by many great Marjas that he participates in Azadary for Imam Hussain (as) specially during Muharram & Arbaeen.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Ashvazdanghe

[Sirius_Bright]

45 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

But he doesn’t do Tatbir & he is our greatest Marja why you don’t follow him , it said & approved by many great Marjas that he participates in Azadary for Imam Hussain (as) specially during Muharram & Arbaeen.

Also, he hasn't come to you and prohibited doing it. Why do you insist? He has his representative allowing it then why this hypocrisy. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

22 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Also, he hasn't come to you and prohibited doing it. Why do you insist? He has his representative allowing it then why this hypocrisy. 

It depends on you that you want follow your desire but do not sticks it to Imam Mahdi (aj) &his representives look again the videos that I posted about Tatbir

[Soldiers and Saffron]

On 5/8/2018 at 1:16 PM, Sirius_Bright said:

Let's put this into perspective. There are maraja's who are not against tatbir and there are many who allows it. If you categorize this as a non-intellectual action, you are implying that those scholars who have allowed it are stupid. You would want to think again.

You have zero authority to decide for others whether a practice has Islamic backing or not, especially when representatives of Imam (atfs) have approved of it for their Muqallids. Islamic Jihad (offensive) is debatable, in defense it has ajr. Haven't you seen Iraqi fighters doing tatbir on 10th of Muharram. Tatbir + Islamic Jihad.

Intentions are in the heart. I don't know what question you are referring to but even if someone made it felt like that you cannot generalize. Allah knows the secrets of the heart, you don't. If it wasn't boasting and pure love for Imam Hussain (a.s.) then be ready to answer for all you accused of.

I don't know about an individual alone in the room but I, for sure, know places where it is practiced in closed quarters, away from common public and cameras.You don't know of a thing doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

If you are not sure you should only wonder and not come to a decision of making a thing haraam. Also, wonder what you will answer him if he approves bleeding for his jadd, Imam Hussain (a.s.), for Imam (atfs) himself cries blood.

“I will, therefore, lament you morning and evening, and will weep blood in place of tears, out of my anguish for you and my sorrow for all that befell you ..”

(Ziyarate Nahiya)

I have not declared anything haram, lets just make that clear and the reason why ALL the scholars have not declared it haram is because saying that something is haram needs a lot of backing, although it can be makrooh. Just like many things in islam, there is always what you can do and what you should do. For example, you can jump on one leg your whole life and that would not be haram but it would still be a stupid thing to do.

Something having islamic backing = follows the sunnah of Ahlul Bayt(as) and Rasulullah(S), do you have strong instances/hadiths where Imam Zayn ul-Abideen(as) would cut his head and back open during mourning? If you do not, then you lack islamic backing for justifying this practice.

Also the Imam(ajf) crying tears of blood instead of tears of water for Hussein(as) does not really equate tatbir, that is far fetched in my opinion.

Anyways brother, if I would ask you a honest question: Would you ever do tatbir alone? Like with nobody seeing you or affirming it, and if so, have you done it?